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Seat Safety Switch posted:A few winters ago I was on the inner-city freeway between my place and the main road to BC and saw a CR-V in the left lane cruising along with its right front wheel at a 45 degree camber angle, toeing in and out when it went over bumps. It was blowing snow and super nasty that day so I assumed they had slid into a curb near the onramp and were trying to limp it to a shop. Hahaha, that is sad yet delightful
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Mar 21, 2013 02:25
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Similar vein. Saw this on ebay a couple years ago. It's front wheel drive. 
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Mar 21, 2013 03:23
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-S- posted:I saw something similar back in December. A Ford Ranger in front of me was going, and the truck would suddenly just start SHAKING side to side like it was in an earthquake. I didnt know what to think. This was on a city street, 2 lanes one direction, 2 the other. I pulled into the right lane, but stayed back. The truck was going fine, then all of a sudden his passenger side front wheel started wobbling like the lug nuts weren't even on there - I can't really describe it. It was like a spinning top that is about to fall over. As this happened, the cab again went to shaking like crazy. This went on for about 1/2 a mile before I said "gently caress this" and just sped around him and got on the interstate. The last I saw him was in my rear view mirror merging into 70MPH traffic. Google "death wobble". Was it a lifted truck, or did it appear to be not very well maintained? TTB trucks like the F150, F250, and (iirc) some Rangers like to get one-sided deathwobble, where one half of the front suspension will oscillate like that. Solid axle trucks obviously get deathwobble that affects the whole frontend. Basically it's an undamped oscillation caused by the suspension (due to poorly executed modifications, poor maintenance, bad alignment, or just plain bad design) having a resonance at some frequency which is approximated by hitting a bump or otherwise "exciting" the suspension, which also tends to excite the driver shortly afterwards. If you think about it, a vehicle's suspension is basically a damped pendulum that can swing slightly side to side (or if you swing that way, an RLC circuit), the bushings and such are the resistance/damping, control arms and other suspension members are the pendulum arm, and the steering linkages and track bar/panhard rod are something like a spring attached to the whole thing. It'll have frequencies it naturally resonates at, if the damping (Q factor) isn't right / the suspension is underdamped at these frequencies rather than being critically damped or overdamped and the frequencies are something that is seen while driving, you'll get an uncontrolled oscillation at some point. Throw a pothole, bridge expansion joint, etc (aka heaviside step function) at the suspension and you've got a drat good chance of getting it started. tl;dr: deathwobble - WHAT'S THE FREQUENCY, KENNETH  e: I've gotten deathwobble, so have several friends. Things I and others have found that fixed it - - my old cherokee had it. Either slamming on the brakes or flooring it until I either lost or gained approximately 20mph would make it stop. Mostly because the particular resonance point I was triggering that caused it was only seen around 50-75mph, if I could escape that range once it started, the oscillations would die out. I finally fixed it by realigning it and putting new tires and rims on. - my pickup had it before I even lifted it. I lifted it and put heavier tires on (moved the resonant frequency significantly in the process) and it hasn't had it since. - many of my friends have had it and solved it with an alignment or new bushings in the suspension. - a recall was considered for some Wranglers due to deathwobble under certain conditions in completely stock vehicles. - a friend's F250 got one-sided deathwobble. Dana 50 TTB front suspension was discovered to have shot balljoints on the side that was exhibiting the problem. kastein fucked around with this message at 03:31 on Mar 21, 2013 |
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Mar 21, 2013 03:26
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kastein posted:Google "death wobble". Was it a lifted truck, or did it appear to be not very well maintained? It might have actually been an F150, and I *think* it had a lift kit on it. Either way, with something called DEATHWOBBLE, how are you not in the shop getting it fixed loving immediately???? I looked up a video and that kind of looks like it but what i saw was at 20 to 30 MPH and it was like super slow motion. It looked like the wheel was going all the way in and out (top and bottom asychronized), but that's probably what it was. WHY WOULD YOU DRIVE THAT big trivia FAIL fucked around with this message at 03:42 on Mar 21, 2013 |
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Mar 21, 2013 03:37
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-S- posted:It might have actually been an F150, and I *think* it had a lift kit on it. Either way, with something called DEATHWOBBLE, how are you not in the shop getting it fixed loving immediately???? Well, problem is, there are so many possible causes (quite literally ANYTHING worn in the front suspension, or badly chosen modifications, poor alignment, tire weight and shock valving, combined with spring rate, stiffness of control arms and panhard rod, etc) that it's basically a game of "throw parts and changes/adjustments at it till it goes away" unless it's either 100% stock or you very carefully designed it. First steps are usually replace any suspect bushings, realign, balance tires, make sure shocks are in good shape, check steering links and tie rod ends for damage, etc. It's very rare that it actually damages things, breaks parts, or kills anyone. Very very rare. Generally, you just feel like you're going to die, thus the name. It springs up so randomly that you really can't be sure you've killed it until you've driven it for a while after fixing things. In some cases you'll start noticing certain bumps, potholes, expansion joints, etc that will set your particular suspension off on a wobble. For instance, my cherokee would ALWAYS get deathwobble if I was in the left lane of i290 eastbound right after the bridge over lake quinsigamond in worcester due to an old frost heave the left tire would hit. At first I avoided it, then I started using it as a way to test if I'd fixed the problem with my latest round of repairs. You almost get used to it, as long as it's not so severe that it breaks things, it will just wobble and continue traveling straight down the road till you do something about it, like hit the brakes. When my pickup got it, I started by fixing all sorts of things, that didn't solve the problem. It was stock height, all sorts of stuff (good control arms and bushings swapped in, new stiffer tie rod, new shocks, etc) did not fix it. A bout of deathwobble finally actually got severe enough that it broke the passenger side engine mount off the block (that was loving terrifying), at which point I ended up lifting it, converting it from RWD auto to 4x4 manual, installing a new engine, putting larger tires on, etc and it hasn't had deathwobble since, even when the control arm bushings wore out again due to me driving it like it's a six-figure rally truck not the $800 beater it is. I can't really explain it. I know the theory, I know the practice, they mostly line up, but occasionally you either get really unlucky or really lucky and poo poo that should work, doesn't, or poo poo that shouldn't ever work at all, does. In theory, theory and practice are the same, in practice, they aren't  e: oh, the best part? I found that if I was careful, I could kill the deathwobble in the pickup by whipping the steering wheel 180 degrees to the left, then back again, as quickly as I could. Discovered that when I got it on a bumpy back road in southern NH just before a corner, the corner made it stop oscillating. It happened so infrequently while driving around my usual commute/home/workplace that I was having a real hell of a time figuring it out, especially as I'd already replaced most of the parts that tend to cause it. Then the last bout of deathwobble broke the engine block and by the time I was done with my "while I'm in there" upgrades, it didn't have deathwobble anymore. 
kastein fucked around with this message at 03:58 on Mar 21, 2013 |
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Mar 21, 2013 03:47
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kastein posted:Well, problem is, there are so many possible causes (quite literally ANYTHING worn in the front suspension, or badly chosen modifications, poor alignment, tire weight and shock valving, combined with spring rate, stiffness of control arms and panhard rod, etc) that it's basically a game of "throw parts and changes/adjustments at it till it goes away" unless it's either 100% stock or you very carefully designed it. First steps are usually replace any suspect bushings, realign, balance tires, make sure shocks are in good shape, check steering links and tie rod ends for damage, etc. Like, what youve been posting is interesting (at least to me, because i saw it first hand), but this is straight up terrible car stuff ITT
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Mar 21, 2013 04:08
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Oh, I know it's terrible, you should try it from behind the wheel. Problem is, it's difficult to fix (because it's difficult to diagnose an exact cause), and not really possible to diagnose without driving it and figuring out what causes it.
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Mar 21, 2013 04:11
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kastein posted:Oh, I know it's terrible, you should try it from behind the wheel. Problem is, it's difficult to fix (because it's difficult to diagnose an exact cause), and not really possible to diagnose without driving it and figuring out what causes it. I dont want to live in this world (or drive on these roads) any longer
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Mar 21, 2013 04:20
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My S beetle had a horrible deathwobble at I think it was maybe 75km/h. That was like a decade ago so I'm a bit unsure. It could just about loosen teeth. Did heaps of front end work but it would only ever fix it temporarily or shift the speed it occurred at a little.
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Mar 21, 2013 04:21
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I don't think I'm explaining how horribly this wheel was wobbling at 20-30MPH. I mean, it probably was what you're calling death wobble, but it's what I was screaming "Holy poo poo THIS MOTHERFUCKER IS ABOUT TO LOSE HIS WHEEL OH gently caress!!"
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Mar 21, 2013 04:24
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Sounds more like a blown tie rod where the axle was holding on for dear life and a serious loving idiot.
DiggityDoink fucked around with this message at 04:43 on Mar 21, 2013 |
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Mar 21, 2013 04:40
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DiggityDoink posted:Sounds more like a blown tie rod where the axle was holding on for dear life and a serious loving idiot. Could have also been a totally gone bearing.
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Mar 21, 2013 04:42
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At 20-30mph it probably wasn't deathwobble. It was more likely a horribly hosed suspension. Deathwobble typically kicks in well above 40, most will see it in the 55-75 range. It's loving terrifying the first few times but unless your jalopy is hanging together by a thread, it won't break anything, so you can eventually figure out what is causing it and fix it.
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Mar 21, 2013 04:43
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General_Failure posted:My S beetle had a horrible deathwobble at I think it was maybe 75km/h. That was like a decade ago so I'm a bit unsure. It could just about loosen teeth. Did heaps of front end work but it would only ever fix it temporarily or shift the speed it occurred at a little. Mine had it between 35-40mph. I would just get through that zone as quick as I could. Was fun to watch people flip out though. Its common on super's and usually due to the lower control arm bushing being worn out. When I changed my bushing the were so badly beaten they fell out of the arms when we unbolted them.
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Mar 21, 2013 06:26
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Saw this car in the Walmart parking lot today. It's difficult to tell, but the lefthand wheel is turned farther than the righthand wheel. I noticed this when I saw it parking. And that's not plasti-dip - it's matte black spray paint. I didn't take any more pics, but the inside is as bad as you would imagine. Check that custom rearview mirror, brah.    I'm in Arizona, now, but this car's rear plate was from Idaho, my home state  (even though Idaho requires front and rear plates...). Way to represent.That's a major downside with the GM3800 and 3500 engines: they put them in drat near every cheapass-bodied car they made, and the engines/transmissions themselves last almost as long as the Jeep 4.0, so there are still a ton of them on the road with bodies that are falling apart and owners that don't give a poo poo because the engine doesn't exactly require regular maintenance (well, it does to run correctly, but you get what I mean). I see the same poo poo with old Jeeps, for probably the same reason. Queen_Combat fucked around with this message at 06:37 on Mar 21, 2013 |
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Mar 21, 2013 06:35
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You usually gotta change the intake manifold gaskets. Well, I guess you don't have to...
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Mar 21, 2013 06:45
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The Pre-Series-1 (1987-1989.5) didn't have intake gasket issues (that started with Series 1), so you get this weird phenomenon where the really old ones outlasted the still-quite-old-but-less-so ones.
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Mar 21, 2013 06:50
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EuQ6f8rgT4 Death Wobble from outside and inside the vehicle. 
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Mar 21, 2013 11:21
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Measly Twerp posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EuQ6f8rgT4 Ahaha yeah that's a death wobble alright. You've never experienced them?
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Mar 21, 2013 12:02
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This death wobble thing is all new to me. I thought only bikes did that. I've driven a few fairly beat-up cars too.
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Mar 21, 2013 13:08
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A tank-slapper on a bike happens because of the way the front geometry works "with" inertia to swing the front forks one way, then the other, as one end of the axle leads and the other end trails the pivot point of the steering, like reverse caster-shimmy (which is why leading the axle usually helps the problem, like increasing the trail of a caster's axle from the pivot helps it) . "Death wobble," AFAIK, is caused by slop in the steering system as a whole (not necessarily just in the column/wheel itself - the steering may feel "tight") acting/oscillating with the springs in (usually a coilover) suspension that has a track bar.
Queen_Combat fucked around with this message at 13:24 on Mar 21, 2013 |
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Mar 21, 2013 13:16
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Measly Twerp posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EuQ6f8rgT4 With hand positioning like that, he deserves to die from massive death wobble. 
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Mar 21, 2013 13:23
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General_Failure posted:Ahaha yeah that's a death wobble alright. You've never experienced them? Nope. Not ever; could it even happen to a Datsun 1600, or a Peugeot 504? KozmoNaut posted:With hand positioning like that, he deserves to die from massive death wobble. 
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Mar 21, 2013 14:22
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At least he has a dash mat so the dashboard doesn't crack in the sun. Priorities.
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Mar 21, 2013 14:23
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It's missing the area for the Institute of Advanced Motorists (which would be both sides of the wheel)
Zeether fucked around with this message at 14:30 on Mar 21, 2013 |
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Mar 21, 2013 14:26
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Zeether posted:It's missing the area for the Institute of Advanced Motorists (which would be both sides of the wheel) Everyday they're shufflin'
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Mar 21, 2013 14:49
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KozmoNaut posted:With hand positioning like that, he deserves to die from massive death wobble. I vary between racecar drivers and farmer, if I'm making a wide turn I go farmer and with open palm rotate the wheel. If I'm driving cross country I'll switch between racecar driver and mom.  Have I been driving wrong?
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Mar 21, 2013 14:49
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Measly Twerp posted:Nope. Not ever; could it even happen to a Datsun 1600, or a Peugeot 504? Both times I've had to deal with it were on 80s Cherokees and it ended up being the steering dampener. It's really loving scary the first time but after that its like kastein was saying, you figure out a way to stop it while you pull hair out trying to find the problem.
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Mar 21, 2013 15:03
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CommieGIR posted:I vary between racecar drivers and farmer, if I'm making a wide turn I go farmer and with open palm rotate the wheel. FWIW I do this a lot too when I'm lazy or trying to do something else with my right hand.
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Mar 21, 2013 16:16
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Left Ventricle posted:Similar vein. Saw this on ebay a couple years ago. It's front wheel drive. So...it was a four wheel drive truck and they just removed the rear driveshaft and left it in 4-hi, or what?
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Mar 21, 2013 16:28
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On the topic of death wobbles. How can someone drive day in and day out on a tire that is so clearly out of balance that the suspension is moving a solid 4 inches + at highway speeds. How hard is it to get your tire balanced. I start freaking out if I get even the tiniest of vibration out of my wheels and tires, I can't even imagine driving with a tire that is 1/2 lb out of balance.
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Mar 21, 2013 16:37
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^^^^ I'm pretty sure I have a rear tire that's slightly out of round, it's particularly aggravating around 30km/h. I can't wait to get my summer wheels back on my car. I can't imagine how anyone could drive around with anything more seriously out of round or imbalanced than that.CommieGIR posted:I vary between racecar drivers and farmer, if I'm making a wide turn I go farmer and with open palm rotate the wheel. If I'm driving cross country I'll switch between racecar driver and mom. I think "farmer" is meant to signify that you have a suicide/brodie knob on the wheel, like most forklifts, combine harvesters, tractors, construction equipment etc.
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Mar 21, 2013 16:42
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veedubfreak posted:On the topic of death wobbles. How can someone drive day in and day out on a tire that is so clearly out of balance that the suspension is moving a solid 4 inches + at highway speeds. How hard is it to get your tire balanced. I start freaking out if I get even the tiniest of vibration out of my wheels and tires, I can't even imagine driving with a tire that is 1/2 lb out of balance. Balancing doesn't fix out of round tires 
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Mar 21, 2013 16:42
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KozmoNaut posted:^^^^ I'm pretty sure I have a rear tire that's slightly out of round, it's particularly aggravating around 30km/h. I can't wait to get my summer wheels back on my car. I can't imagine how anyone could drive around with anything more seriously out of round or imbalanced than that. Naw, it just means you've got your left elbow rested out the window and your hand on the wheel, with your other arm rested up across the bench seat, holding a beer.
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Mar 21, 2013 17:40
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KozmoNaut posted:With hand positioning like that, he deserves to die from massive death wobble. I'm the only person I've seen who holds it one-handed in racecar position, usually on the left as a lefty. Not an all-around great driving position, but work-route and coffee you know. Much better control than douchebag, with farmer-style steering. And Volvo thumb-horns.
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Mar 21, 2013 18:02
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Wotalt posted:I'm the only person I've seen who holds it one-handed in racecar position, usually on the left as a lefty. Not an all-around great driving position, but work-route and coffee you know. Much better control than douchebag, with farmer-style steering. And Volvo thumb-horns.  My 3 year old is always telling me to put both hands on the wheel.
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Mar 21, 2013 18:04
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KozmoNaut posted:With hand positioning like that, he deserves to die from massive death wobble. Replace "Douchebags" and "Farmers" with "Driving a manual transmission and used to one-handed steering"
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Mar 21, 2013 18:10
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To complete the douchebag, you must be leaning way over the center console, so you are effectively sitting in the middle of your car.
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Mar 21, 2013 18:28
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To be fair, had he been in racecar it would have jostled the hell out of his wrists. Had he tucked a thumb he could have had that broken as well.
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Mar 21, 2013 18:35
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Does no one else just grab the horizontal spokes at the edges? Mind you I have driven more than a few km with my elbows on the spokes and my chin on the top of the wheel (very empty secondary highways) Also: 16 Ave NW, Calgary  Owners are going to be complaining about how poo poo their Toyota is after they have to completely replace the rear suspension in a year (the bumper was about an inch off the ground) Not seen, kids wandering around in the back.  I don't know if it comes across in the picture, but it looked like someone had set the aspect ratio of the world wrong. edit: FYI the first picture is old, so there was no distracted driving law. The second one was at a red light (Still technically illegal, but at least I had my hands on the steering wheel, and eyes up) And proof that their distracted driving laws are working great, here is their new ad campaign 
Jonny Nox fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Mar 21, 2013 |
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Mar 21, 2013 18:55
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