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SurrealityCheck posted:It's the way it pops up in white text as you do it! Oh, um, well... ...yeah. I could make up something about drawing pseudo-intellectual comparisons to Call of Duty man-shoots as an endorsement of their mutually, bluntly morally questionable idealogies, but.... ...it's just an effective way of conveying information. The curse of mainstream videogames.
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Mar 22, 2013 15:42
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Yeah, it's a personal thing. I also think that it would have been better if they removed the terminal exclamation mark (seriously).
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Mar 22, 2013 15:45
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I don't mind the UI, largely. For me the 'Tomb Raided!' thing was cute the first time and then kind of less endearing every time afterwards.
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Mar 22, 2013 15:51
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poptart_fairy posted:The more I think about it the more I love the whole she's a goddamn sociopath interpretation I really don't understand this. No peaceful recourse is offered by the Solarii, so Lara is forced to do what she does, which is save her bestie (and herself) and get her other friends to safety. Not exactly guile, malice, and self-interest; no sociopathy.
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Mar 22, 2013 15:52
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Duck and burger posted:I really don't understand this. No peaceful recourse is offered by the Solarii, so Lara is forced to do what she does, which is save her bestie (and herself) and get her other friends to safety. Not exactly guile, malice, and self-interest; no sociopathy. You gotta do what you gotta do, even of it happens to be shooting 350 guys with a bow and arrow or stirring their brain with a climbing axe. Better than dying. I think a lot of people throw around sociopath without knowing what it means, or caring about correct usage. The body count in this game is still a little weird but I don't think you can lay that at the feet of much Lara does by choice beyond defending herself and her friends.
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Mar 22, 2013 16:20
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Dogen posted:You gotta do what you gotta do, even of it happens to be shooting 350 guys with a bow and arrow or stirring their brain with a climbing axe. Better than dying. It's true. One, it's a video game so obviously she's going to have to kill the guys trying to kill her (not sure what the option is there). Two, people don't know what sociopath means.
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Mar 22, 2013 16:29
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Dan Didio posted:I don't mind the UI, largely. For me the 'Tomb Raided!' thing was cute the first time and then kind of less endearing every time afterwards. I tend to find presentational elements that give the player a lot of knowledge early very irritating. For example, I would have preferred it if the game didn't tell you how many tombs were in each area. However, I understand I am in a minority on that because a lot of people like having the information there so they know when to look.
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Mar 22, 2013 16:41
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Dan Didio posted:Oh, um, well... I found it annoying because it's Lara's origin story, and it's supposed to be this harrowing, crucible-like experience, but it's hard to take seriously when pop ups constantly tell you what a sick nasty badass you are. I kept thinking, "am I supposed to be yet?" But like I said, this was a bigger concern before the game came out, and while it did occasionally take me out of the story, I was having too much fun playing the game to care, mostly.
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Mar 22, 2013 16:53
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DrNutt posted:but it's hard to take seriously when pop ups constantly tell you what a sick nasty badass you are. I don't recall this. What pop ups are you talking about?
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Mar 22, 2013 17:03
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Duck and burger posted:I don't recall this. What pop ups are you talking about? "Killer Finisher!" "Killer Headshot!" "Brutal Axe Finisher!"
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Mar 22, 2013 17:05
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DrNutt posted:"Killer Finisher!" "Killer Headshot!" "Brutal Axe Finisher!" Was that a console thing, because I definitely don't remember that. That sounds dreadful, haha.
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Mar 22, 2013 17:08
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Duck and burger posted:Was that a console thing, because I definitely don't remember that. That sounds dreadful, haha. It's on the PC too. It's when you unlock the "Acccomplished Killer" upgrade.
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Mar 22, 2013 17:12
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Oooh, that little text off to the left near the XP numbers. Yeah. That's not so bad. Not like Unreal Tournament MONSTER KILL.
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Mar 22, 2013 17:15
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If they had just mentioned in her backstory that she was a pro Quake 3 player I would have been fine with it! DENIED
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Mar 22, 2013 17:20
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Wiseblood posted:It's on the PC too. It's when you unlock the "Acccomplished Killer" upgrade. They exist before that upgrade too, just slightly more muted.
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Mar 22, 2013 17:21
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DrNutt posted:They exist before that upgrade too, just slightly more muted. I think it just says brutal finisher when you cave in someone's skull with a convenient rock
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Mar 22, 2013 18:16
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Duck and burger posted:Oooh, that little text off to the left near the XP numbers. Yeah. That's not so bad. Not like Unreal Tournament MONSTER KILL. I would replay this on the PC if there was a mod for that.
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Mar 22, 2013 18:28
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DrNutt posted:"Killer Finisher!" "Killer Headshot!" "Brutal Axe Finisher!" As soon as I started getting these, I started laughing my rear end off because they got Bulletstorm in my Tomb Raider!
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Mar 22, 2013 19:21
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Rageaholic Monkey posted:As soon as I started getting these, I started laughing my rear end off because they got Bulletstorm in my Tomb Raider! I want a little bit of Bulletstorm in every game, honestly. A lot of games could be improved with gratuitous dick-killing. That just reminds me that I forgot to tell Jennifer Hale how much I loved her in that game when I saw her at Comic Con. 
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Mar 22, 2013 19:36
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Duck and burger posted:I really don't understand this. No peaceful recourse is offered by the Solarii, so Lara is forced to do what she does, which is save her bestie (and herself) and get her other friends to safety. Not exactly guile, malice, and self-interest; no sociopathy. Well, I suppose "sociopath" is the wrong word to use but I mean more how quickly and easily she takes to killing. While a large amount of it is down to video game logic, she mentions to her mentor dude that it was easy for her - mentally - to kill people.
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Mar 22, 2013 19:38
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poptart_fairy posted:Well, I suppose "sociopath" is the wrong word to use but I mean more how quickly and easily she takes to killing. While a large amount of it is down to video game logic, she mentions to her mentor dude that it was easy for her - mentally - to kill people. I kind of read that as her adrenaline kind of taking over and getting her to do what she had to do to survive. There's a consistent theme of pushing forward, no matter what, and while I was initially critical of Lara Croft's speedy evolution, the game makes it pretty clear that she's simply made of sterner stuff, and this game is more about discovering that than some sort of metamorphosis from innocent girl to killer badass. Even if the first character model to unlock is "Innocent Lara."
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Mar 22, 2013 19:42
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poptart_fairy posted:Well, I suppose "sociopath" is the wrong word to use but I mean more how quickly and easily she takes to killing. While a large amount of it is down to video game logic, she mentions to her mentor dude that it was easy for her - mentally - to kill people. Yeah maybe in that environment, but I don't think when she got back home she would be like "man gotta keep murdering," and also perhaps she'll have some kind of PTSD. It's a kind of survival adaptation. If she had some kind of breakdown in the middle of the game it would mean death most likely. Would it be easy for you to kill someone if they were trying to kill you first? I'm not sure what the right answer to that question is (or if there is one)
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Mar 22, 2013 19:45
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Robot_Rumpus posted:Two, people don't know what sociopath means. As far as I can tell, "sociopath" basically means "Person that ever does anything that one goon, somewhere, disagrees with".
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Mar 23, 2013 00:40
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DrNutt posted:I want a little bit of Bulletstorm in every game, honestly. A lot of games could be improved with gratuitous dick-killing. I am astonished nobody has dubbed mass effect 3 with Trishka lines. Or made a voice pack. It is astonishing how appropriate most of it would be.
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Mar 23, 2013 00:49
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poptart_fairy posted:Well, I suppose "sociopath" is the wrong word to use but I mean more how quickly and easily she takes to killing. While a large amount of it is down to video game logic, she mentions to her mentor dude that it was easy for her - mentally - to kill people. I just started playing this game recently and laughed when that line came up, about her being surprised by how easily she was killing people. It seemed almost like a meta joke since you're easily killing the early game mooks. Suddenly I really want to play a game where the character realizes at some point that they're a character in a video game and it gets all existential. Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead: The Game. Something like that.
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Mar 23, 2013 03:12
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Blastedhellscape posted:I just started playing this game recently and laughed when that line came up, about her being surprised by how easily she was killing people. It seemed almost like a meta joke since you're easily killing the early game mooks. The closest example I can think of is Vivec from Morrowind, who apparently utilised his godhood to access the game's Construction Kit, and is concious of the fact that the protagonist's ability to drink potions from the pause menu and quickload any time they die makes them invulnerable. Supposedly the protagonists of all the Elder Scrolls games are aware of their game nature to at least some degree, but all being effectively silent, they're hardly able to go all existentialist on you. I'm not sure how you'd make an engaging game about a character who comes to the realisation they are in a game, but I'd sure as hell like to try it!
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Mar 23, 2013 03:50
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Mar 23, 2013 04:18
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Blastedhellscape posted:Suddenly I really want to play a game where the character realizes at some point that they're a character in a video game and it gets all existential. Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead: The Game. Something like that. Happens in Max Payne 1, in a dream sequence. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIQRj6wzitI
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Mar 23, 2013 04:26
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Reveilled posted:I'm not sure how you'd make an engaging game about a character who comes to the realisation they are in a game, but I'd sure as hell like to try it!
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Mar 23, 2013 05:19
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SurrealityCheck posted:It's the way it pops up in white text as you do it! It's purely the association, because it turns killing dudes into a rote xp maximisation problem. I headshotted everybody in order to maximise xp revenue because I am a numberslave. I never used the shotgun because it returns less xp because getting consistent headshots with it is a waste of time. You'll probably stop having fun if you turn the game into a meter filling and number growing simulator.
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Mar 23, 2013 05:43
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Blastedhellscape posted:Suddenly I really want to play a game where the character realizes at some point that they're a character in a video game and it gets all existential. Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead: The Game. Something like that. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eat_Lead:_The_Return_of_Matt_Hazard
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Mar 23, 2013 11:47
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I actually don't think they were ever trying to show Lara becoming a killer. Killer typically evokes images of heartlessness, and they are clearly trying to show she very much does have a heart. A badass action movie hero, sure. But they're clearly trying to sell her as a sympathetic, moral character. Everyone makes a big deal about how the Solarii are insane murderers who sacrifice all the women they see without remorse. But they never level any sort of judgement at Lara for killing 400 people, because she's an action hero, not a real person. But it's a hard thing to do: have a likable main character who is normal, well-adjusted, has friends and likes them, etc, but also goes and guns down hundreds of people. Tomb Raider is really a movie plot grafted onto a game. So where a movie would have only a couple fight scenes, the game needs to have the character plow through mooks to get to the next story beat. That's the issue with Uncharted as well. Rock paper shotgun has an interview with Rhianna Pratchett about it too. She basically says "well, it's an action game so we gotta shoot people" even though she recognized it was weird. But it was pretty clear even from that interview that the narrative and gameplay teams are totally separate. And part of me thinks that sucks for games in general, because they won't ever really grow up until those things are unified. Or at least until people realize that yeah interactive movies are cool, but that's not really the strength of the medium. There will always be a place for it, but you shouldn't talk up how great your writing is when you are just doing fairly generic genre work.
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Mar 23, 2013 15:47
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DrNutt posted:Even if the first character model to unlock is "Innocent Lara." I realize it is thematically appropriate with the game and character, but just once would I like to see how well this would translate to a game with a male protagonist. "Innocent Nathan".
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Mar 23, 2013 16:02
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I don't know, something like this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lester_the_Unlikely
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Mar 23, 2013 16:17
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I was pretty drat sure the game would pull a "the Line" and considering the "Innocent Lara" thing and the skills Lara acquires. At the start of the game most of the skills are focused on "survival" - skills that make you gain more XP or material. After you've leveled up enough skills, you start getting some more offensive skills, like the arrow counter. By that point in the game, Lara has acquired more weapons and some nasty tricks like rope pulling and fire arrows. And by the end of the game, almost half of the new unlockable skills are straight-up executions.. I was completely certain the game would comment in some way on the normalization of violence in media or at least try to show how all the killing changes Lara to the core. I was pretty disappointed that the game pretty much side-stepped the issue of Lara becoming a desensitized killer and instead went for the safer route and turned her into an action hero. Don't get me wrong, her attitude does change throughout the game and is reflected in her dialogue in cut-scenes and fights. It's just that I think the developers missed an opportunity here. I would have been completely fine with the violence and the generally dark and nasty atmosphere like the monastery or the caves where you have to wade through the river of blood if the game went all the way with it. As it is now the game is a little weird, tone-wise. The story is a pretty basic "ordinary person must become an action hero to save her friends and uncover the secret of the island" adventure story, but the sometimes grotesque environments and truly brutal violence are less "adventure" and more "horror-thriller". This unbalance hurts the game, and for the next one, they should either write a darker story, or tone down the violence and grime. Either way is fine with me. Regardless of this, I loved the game. Lots of things to explore, the combat is kinetic and intense and never got old (love the dodging mechanic), and the outdoor areas are really pretty and large. The game didn't rely too much on big setpieces (unlike Uncharted) but the ones we got are awesome. My favorites are the climb up the radio tower, and the insane fight on the suspended boat (on the way to the beach). The tombs were a little small and basic, but still nice distractions. Hopefully the next one expands on the puzzle solving aspect. I did enjoy the combat (it's less Uncharted and more like a really polished and fun Resident Evil) but for me, the exploration and puzzle-solving are the most important. I've found every little secret item and I usually don't bother with that stuff! All in all, this game blows most third-person action games out of the water and I'm looking forward to what they come up with next. Hopefully they will iron out the uneven story and create more puzzles! EDIT: Loved the reference to the older games at the end, and Lara's last line. Renoistic fucked around with this message at 18:17 on Mar 23, 2013 |
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Mar 23, 2013 17:52
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I'm a little disappointed that the mounted machine gun sequence didn't end with this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZeDq4Yo6Jk#t=40s
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Mar 24, 2013 01:34
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It's funny how I keep bumping into tombs when Laura's frantically trying to get somewhere to save someone. Always weird when there's a constant sense of urgency in a game with a ton of optional sidequests. As much as I'm loving all the huge action set-pieces I kind of hope the next game emphases exploration and adventure a bit more.
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Mar 24, 2013 02:06
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Yodzilla posted:I'm a little disappointed that the mounted machine gun sequence didn't end with this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZeDq4Yo6Jk#t=40s I'm pretty sure the developers had that movie in mind but things can't be go too smoothly for Lara, now can they? I like the scene the way it is, though. I actually burst out laughing when she started turning the MG. That's just overkill! By the way, I haven't been able to play the MP for days. I get a message that says the servers can't be reached, but I can't imagine they'd be down for this long. Does anyone else have this problem?
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Mar 24, 2013 02:21
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Blastedhellscape posted:It's funny how I keep bumping into tombs when Laura's frantically trying to get somewhere to save someone. Always weird when there's a constant sense of urgency in a game with a ton of optional sidequests. As much as I'm loving all the huge action set-pieces I kind of hope the next game emphases exploration and adventure a bit more. That is the weirdest part of the game for me, that they had some well placed sense of urgency, then matched it up with a ton of optional stuff that you essentially need to put the game on hold for.
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Mar 24, 2013 02:32
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I love that they built a dynamic day/night cycle into this game. So many developers would have just done "okay this area is always day, this area is always night" but based on what time of day it is in the story in Tomb Raider if you travel around to other camps for collectibles those areas are the same. That's really cool.
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Mar 24, 2013 03:13
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