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AWD only helps up to a point and it tends to make people overconfident. In NZ where Japanese imports are common and cheap the higher performance Subaru models are extremely overrepresented in high speed single vehicle crashes.
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Mar 21, 2013 20:48
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My point is none of these people are going to learn how to drive and anything helps. Cap hill driving is pure comedy.
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Mar 21, 2013 21:00
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It's a proven fact that people from Seattle on balance suck dicks at driving in bad conditions. If you need AWD for Seattle driving, I suggest a driving course. Even if you feel like you need AWD, Haldex is perfectly fine to help you go up a hill.
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Mar 21, 2013 21:01
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Cat Terrist posted:Nope, that's not true at all. Subarus were quirky and they were in serious trouble until the turbo charged Liberty RS and the WRX saved their asses in the early 90's. Then they had the money to pull off the first gen Forester and the Outback, which were so goddamn far ahead of their competitors in dynamics it wasnt funny. Just because the USA was late to the Subaru party doesnt mean it gets to re-write how Subaru got to where it was - Australia was for a long time a much bigger market to Subaru than the USA was and that time was when Subaru got not just quirky but good. Even now Australia is still a big Subaru market, out of proportion of the other car makers. None of this matters because the US is the largest car market in the world and Subaru is looking to make money before anything else. That Subaru will sell a ton in the US and there's nothing we can do about it. This is why being an enthusiast is bad sometimes, a car company invariably breaks your heart chasing market share and when you look at it from inside a bubble it makes no sense. I've worked in the wholesale side of the auto industry for a long time now, I'm pretty cynical when it comes to what manufacturers will produce when it comes to chasing profit. In an era where global model lineups replace regional niche ones, the larger markets are going to dictate what the rest of the world gets.
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Mar 21, 2013 23:17
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Regarding AWD and snow, I'm of the opinion that most people are kidding themselves thinking that AWD is a necessity and really just need snow tires: I live near Syracuse, NY and have an 04 WRX with snow tires. My wife has an 06 Jetta (FWD) with snow tires. We've never gotten stuck in her car in reasonable snow (less than 18" or so), and she typically has no problems going up hills, but there have been plenty of times when we've been dumped on (60" in a weekend a few years ago comes to mind) when there's no way we'd be getting around in her car. Driving on unplowed roads with snow coming over the hood is perfectly doable in my car but would not happen in hers. Of course, the number of times I've NEEDED to go out in such weather is zero - it's just fun to do so because I can safely get around and visit all of my stranded friends/favorite restaurant employees. Aside from that, being able to make quick lane changes, overtake slow drivers by driving in the unplowed lanes on the highway, or swerve around people going sideways in front of me has been quite helpful a number of times, though that's mostly a convenience that allows for faster/more aggressive driving on my part. And of course, empty parking lots are obviously more fun in my car. Do I love having an AWD car every winter living where I live? Yes. Do I need to have it 95% of the time? Nope. Do I really need to be on the road that other 5% of the time? Definitely not. That said, a hybrid Crosstrek will likely be among the best selling cars in this area. Seattle doesn't even come close to most of the northern Midwest and Northest with respect to snow and bad roads, but all this car needs to be a winner is buyers who want a hybrid and can be sold on the idea of the superiority of AWD in bad weather. Seattle and the PNW in general is clearly a place where this car will do well whether people there really need AWD or not.
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Mar 22, 2013 01:33
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VikingSkull posted:This is why being an enthusiast is bad sometimes, a car company invariably breaks your heart chasing market share and when you look at it from inside a bubble it makes no sense. Tell me about it. 
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Mar 22, 2013 01:43
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aparmenideanmonad posted:
Subaru and hybrids both have a huge following up here, so it makes total sense. They will sell as many hybrid crossteks as they can possibly ship up here. I hate when people say that Seattle roads aren't bad because ________. Yeah it might snow a few inches once every 2 years, but our city roads are incredibly poorly maintained (thanks to a few laws we have which make it prohibitively expensive to fix damaged roads or create new ones), very densely populated, it's not flat anywhere, none of our drivers know how to drive in the snow or (believe it or not) the rain, we don't salt the roads (last I checked,) and we don't have any snow plows. Not even public transportation is safe. You really can't compare driving conditions from Seattle to when it snows in the midwest & northeast, it's a totally different beast with its own set of problems. The midwest has more snow, but it's flat, there is no one on the road, and there isn't random chunks of broken asphalt sticking out of every other block. I'd rather drive through the rocky mountains in the winter than anywhere down town Seattle with 2 inches of snow, personally. Speaking of the discussion earlier, if you still think Subaru is trying to make cars for enthusiasts... Watch some of their commercials... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjCi0LCysAc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owvaAcAlxIc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qf8OGLqE1s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Wa_6g9WNgU Drunken Lullabies fucked around with this message at 01:52 on Mar 22, 2013 |
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Mar 22, 2013 01:49
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BoostCreep posted:Tell me about it. When I was in high school I had a legit hard-on for those gen Eclipse. I also love the 90's Thunderbirds and Cougars though, so that says something about my tastes.
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Mar 22, 2013 03:43
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aparmenideanmonad posted:Do I love having an AWD car every winter living where I live? Yes. Do I need to have it 95% of the time? Nope. Do I really need to be on the road that other 5% of the time? Definitely not. Yeah, this is basically how I feel. 95% of the time I have no problems with RWD, and the other 5% I just don't drive. However, I have the luxury of living in a city where, if I need something, I can throw on my Sorels and get it. However, I did grow up in rural BC, and there you most definitely do need to have a good winter vehicle, or you won't be able to carry on your day-to-day life for a good portion of the winter. Road clearing is worse, distances are further, and the consequences of getting stuck are much more dire. It's absolutely a matter of the difference between being able to limp home at 20 km/h versus not getting home at all, and when you have to drive 100 km to access a good grocery store, things get that much trickier. I agree, compared to Canada, it's not nearly as much of an issue in the States, or even in urban Canada. I still don't like seeing automakers being essentially penalized for making 4WD/AWD vehicles, because there is still a significant portion of the population that does rely on them. To my mind, it makes more sense to relax the fuel economy rules on 4WD/AWD vehicles than to relax them on "light trucks" (pickup trucks exempted, because plenty of people do need them for work).
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Mar 22, 2013 04:16
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A through-road hybrid system is capable of providing AWD while also increasing the gas mileage and there's at least a couple on sale right now by Peugeot. Other manufacturers are also (at least planning on) making their own versions. While Peugeot's system works out to about an extra 200 pounds curb weight, much of that's for the battery. If the system is integrated into a car that's already a hybrid it's potentially less than half the weight penalty because it doesn't need an extra battery or dedicated generator. With more time to mature, electric AWD should be competitive with mechanical AWD.
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Mar 22, 2013 08:23
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What about when fully electric cars are mainstream? Will we still see cars like the Tesla with a gearbox driving the wheels, or will we see AWD cars with a motor and gearbox at each corner? electric power at least makes delivering power to each wheel less of a hassle than with a drivetrain.
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Mar 22, 2013 08:32
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Right now, basic e-diffs work by braking to adjust wheel speed (not counting ones that electrically control a clutchpack). You can only apply a negative high-frequency impulse at each wheel (slowing it down), in addition to the positive drive from the diff. Talking about just a 2WD setup for now, with an electric motor in each drive wheel, you could apply high-frequency positive impulses at each wheel, which should allow all sorts of fancy stability programming. I bet the first cars to implement this might feel spooky and different to drive like the MP12.
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Mar 22, 2013 08:38
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1337JiveTurkey posted:A through-road hybrid system is capable of providing AWD while also increasing the gas mileage and there's at least a couple on sale right now by Peugeot. Other manufacturers are also (at least planning on) making their own versions. While Peugeot's system works out to about an extra 200 pounds curb weight, much of that's for the battery. If the system is integrated into a car that's already a hybrid it's potentially less than half the weight penalty because it doesn't need an extra battery or dedicated generator. With more time to mature, electric AWD should be competitive with mechanical AWD. Subaru had this concept not long ago which is a diesel hybrid that uses exclusively motors for the rear wheels. http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/geneva-2013-subaru-viziv-concept-brings-a-diesel-hybrid-powertrain-and-all-wheel-drive-to-the-party/ It would be really cool if that becomes a reality, but I'm guessing it will be a gasser.
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Mar 22, 2013 08:51
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I have a part-time awd Volvo & have been throwing around the concept of how hard it would be to drive the rear axle electrically. As always the control integration would be the bitch.
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Mar 22, 2013 09:49
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If AWD was an absolute necessity up north then no one would have been driving a car at all until the mid-80s. If your grandma could drive around in a 383 Caprice in the 1960s I think any modern driver can all handle their 1.4L FWD vehicles.
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Mar 22, 2013 12:52
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AdmiralViscen posted:If AWD was an absolute necessity up north then no one would have been driving a car at all until the mid-80s. If your grandma could drive around in a 383 Caprice in the 1960s I think any modern driver can all handle their 1.4L FWD vehicles. I think people were also a lot more diligent about using snow tires or even snow chains when everybody was driving RWD land boats. Or they just drove into the ditch on the side of the road, which happened constantly because drivers have always been massive idiots.
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Mar 22, 2013 13:21
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A lot of the time people stayed home as well if the weather was really bad.
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Mar 22, 2013 14:11
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BoostCreep posted:Tell me about it. Sure. 
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Mar 22, 2013 14:21
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kimbo305 posted:Right now, basic e-diffs work by braking to adjust wheel speed (not counting ones that electrically control a clutchpack). You can only apply a negative high-frequency impulse at each wheel (slowing it down), in addition to the positive drive from the diff. The Borg Warner system looks like it's going to keep the motors inboard and use a pair of linked planetary gearsets to split the torque. I guess in the sense of multiple motors combining with planetary gearsets to actively split torque it's pretty close conceptually to how hybrid CVTs work. I guess that another alternative by extension would be to use the same principle to make an electric active center differential of some sort for a hybrid conventional AWD system. AAM has a few demonstration videos of their system actually doing active side-to-side torque splitting on an icy test track. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41Ytf5-qBm4 CharlesM posted:It would be really cool if that becomes a reality, but I'm guessing it will be a gasser. The Peugeot 3008 Hybrid4 is pretty much exactly that so don't get too disappointed just yet.
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Mar 22, 2013 14:36
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Laserface posted:What about when fully electric cars are mainstream? Will we still see cars like the Tesla with a gearbox driving the wheels, or will we see AWD cars with a motor and gearbox at each corner? electric power at least makes delivering power to each wheel less of a hassle than with a drivetrain. Honestly, probably not within the next few decades. The infrastructure just isn't there and not many people want to buy a car that costs more than a regular car but isn't as good.
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Mar 22, 2013 15:16
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G-Mach posted:A lot of the time people stayed home as well if the weather was really bad. Don't forget the option of crashing and dying
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Mar 22, 2013 15:27
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Xguard86 posted:Don't forget the option of crashing and dying Well back in the day they only had the two options of staying home or crashing and dying.
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Mar 22, 2013 15:52
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1337JiveTurkey posted:A through-road hybrid system is capable of providing AWD while also increasing the gas mileage and there's at least a couple on sale right now by Peugeot. Other manufacturers are also (at least planning on) making their own versions. While Peugeot's system works out to about an extra 200 pounds curb weight, much of that's for the battery. If the system is integrated into a car that's already a hybrid it's potentially less than half the weight penalty because it doesn't need an extra battery or dedicated generator. With more time to mature, electric AWD should be competitive with mechanical AWD. There's also the Citroen DS5, which looks much better imo than the Peugeots: http://www.whatcar.com/car-news/2013-citroen-ds5-hybrid4-review/265230 
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Mar 22, 2013 15:57
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Laserface posted:What about when fully electric cars are mainstream? Will we still see cars like the Tesla with a gearbox driving the wheels, or will we see AWD cars with a motor and gearbox at each corner? electric power at least makes delivering power to each wheel less of a hassle than with a drivetrain. If there were 20 million electric cars each pulling 1500W to charge at night, that's 30GW of load, which is a lot when you think the entire generating capacity of California is 92GW. Night is a low draw time, but you'd have to have a charger controller network able to understand the power grid's status and shift chargers on/off the grid when capacity was an issue. edit: If everyone had nothing change but their cars were electric (lots of big cars per person), there's not many other options than Nuclear for its huge generating capcity, and really that is a political minefield itself. DJ Commie fucked around with this message at 16:42 on Mar 22, 2013 |
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Mar 22, 2013 16:37
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SouthLAnd posted:When I was in high school I had a legit hard-on for those gen Eclipse. I also love the 90's Thunderbirds and Cougars though, so that says something about my tastes.
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Mar 23, 2013 05:57
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DJ Commie posted:If there were 20 million electric cars each pulling 1500W to charge at night, that's 30GW of load, which is a lot when you think the entire generating capacity of California is 92GW. Night is a low draw time, but you'd have to have a charger controller network able to understand the power grid's status and shift chargers on/off the grid when capacity was an issue. You can put small, clean generators on branches of the grid. Like every neighborhood would have a fuel cell or two at the entrance. Runs off NG, makes extra hydrogen for hydrogen cars, powers house A/C during the day and charges cars at night. Minimal infrastructure upgrades to the main grid needed. South Koreans are already starting to do this by putting cells in larger apartment buildings and the Japanese are doing a sort of microgrid variant as response to the widespread blackouts after Fukushima. You're right that Nuke long term is the only baseload option but moving that juice through the grid requires significant transmission upgrades as well.
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Mar 24, 2013 01:56
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Images of the new CTS are out, and       rear end end is a little boring in that pic, but I like the rest of what they've shown.
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Mar 24, 2013 18:54
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Snowdens Secret posted:You can put small, clean generators on branches of the grid. Like every neighborhood would have a fuel cell or two at the entrance. Runs off NG, makes extra hydrogen for hydrogen cars, powers house A/C during the day and charges cars at night. Minimal infrastructure upgrades to the main grid needed. South Koreans are already starting to do this by putting cells in larger apartment buildings and the Japanese are doing a sort of microgrid variant as response to the widespread blackouts after Fukushima. Localizing generation has its own problems, though. You have issues with syncing, controlling which direction power flows in, and that generally small generation plants aren't as efficient as larger plants. However, local regional power does open up cogeneration, which is a huge benefit in colder areas of the world. Large nuclear facilities with cogeneration could knock out massive amounts of CO2 emissions in entire regions, you could run drat near everything off of steam and electricity in areas without need for long-range road transport. Designing that from the ground up is easy, making that work in an environment not designed like that in the first place would be much harder. Doing cogeneration and grid enhancements for electric cars would probably be easiest in cities like NYC, where there already is steam transmission networks and underground cabling infrastructure. The real problem is that personal transport sucks, its a massive waste of finite resources and is ingrained into how people go about their lives, it will probably never change.
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Mar 24, 2013 19:52
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So, the real story behind the new Cherokee has come out: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324103504578372742834883124.html Basically, it was originally designed as an Alfa Romeo, then badge-engineered to a Jeep in order to save money on engineering because of massive financial troubles at Fiat that have led to serious slashes in budgets for development, engineering, or new tooling.
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Mar 24, 2013 20:07
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DJ Commie posted:Doing cogeneration and grid enhancements for electric cars would probably be easiest in cities like NYC, where there already is steam transmission networks and underground cabling infrastructure. Agree with what you're saying, and cogen is already a Big Thing in colder parts of Europe. The thing about personal transit is, a lot of people approach it with already decided 20th century solutions (i.e. specific mass transit plans) for political reasons while the 21st century answer is increased videoconferencing / tekecommuting. (You don't have to work out of the home, more and more people are working out of leisure spaces like coffeeshops and pubs.)
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Mar 24, 2013 20:53
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fknlo posted:Images of the new CTS are out, and   I need this in my life.
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Mar 24, 2013 20:57
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Snowdens Secret posted:Agree with what you're saying, and cogen is already a Big Thing in colder parts of Europe. The thing about personal transit is, a lot of people approach it with already decided 20th century solutions (i.e. specific mass transit plans) for political reasons while the 21st century answer is increased videoconferencing / tekecommuting. (You don't have to work out of the home, more and more people are working out of leisure spaces like coffeeshops and pubs.) Yeah, in particular coming in at 9 and leaving at 5 is pretty much meaningless and outdated for any kind of white-collar work where there's no shifts or giant machines that you have to structure the workday around. I'm convinced much of the reason we don't see wider acceptance of things like flex-time is because of this cultural idea that we have to treat workers like crap and take control and autonomy away from them if they're going to be proper subordinates. Even with the necessity of things like meetings, it's not like most meetings are scheduled for as soon as you get in the door or right before you leave. Also, there's some pretty good arguments that things like shared office space are less productive than a scheme where workers have private offices and more time to work by themselves. I know people complain about telecommuting being less efficient or whatever, but that seems still to be more of a cultural and organizational problem and not an insurmountable one. If people are equally productive, who cares about how they get things done? Powershift posted:
Yeah, those headlamps just big enough to house a projector and not much else are great. Really clean and a good way to freshen their existing design scheme. Cadillac seems to be right at or ahead of the curve in terms of finally breaking from the giant headlight fad that has spread across basically every car, (though they're still doing that thing where the headlights get stretched all the way to the A pillar). I don't normally like superfluous LED strips, but the execution here is pretty darn sharp. The sculpting on the hood looks promising, too. OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Mar 24, 2013 |
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Mar 24, 2013 21:02
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Cream_Filling posted:
I've said it before and I'll say it again, the government needs to get behind telecommuting in a big way and offer big incentives to companies to allow it. I drive 16 miles one way every day to work on servers that are 10 miles away in a different direction. What sense does that make other then some cultural belief that people need to gather in a central location somewhere to work?
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Mar 24, 2013 22:04
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fknlo posted:
IMO this is a perfect cadillac rear end. Understated and squared, but still has the vertical lamps.
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Mar 25, 2013 00:27
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angryhampster posted:IMO this is a perfect cadillac rear end. Understated and squared, but still has the vertical lamps. I'm honestly just not a fan of the back end of the current lineup. There's something about the lines around the trunk I'm not a fan of. Another pic:  
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Mar 25, 2013 00:58
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I'm not willing to get on the All Telecommute/telework bandwagon since I find a lot of casual face time to be really valuable in terms of expediting things, but I do agree that it's stupid to sit in your cubicle on your email for 8 hours a day every day. It's all about a balance, and it lowers expenses at the same time!
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Mar 25, 2013 01:33
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Is the new CTS based off of the Commodore as well?
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Mar 25, 2013 04:25
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Tusen Takk posted:Is the new CTS based off of the Commodore as well? I don't see why they would move it off the Sigma platform.
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Mar 25, 2013 04:33
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The new CTS is on the Alpha, same as the ATS just bigger.
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Mar 25, 2013 04:49
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vx15i posted:The new CTS is on the Alpha, same as the ATS just bigger. Also the new Camaro. We'll have to see what kind of weight savings this yields, but the ATS comes in at less than 3500 lbs, so even with the weight gain from a stretch, the Alpha versions will probably be lighter than the current CTS (~3900 lbs) and Camaro (3750-3900 lbs). Maybe they'll downsize the next (or rather next-next) Commodore to ride on it, because otherwise, it looks like it'll transition to FWD/AWD as is rumored (though Commodore rumors are a dime a dozen and probably even GM is not quite sure what to do that far in the future).
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Mar 25, 2013 04:58
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