This American Life

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Lady Gaza: Nov 20, 2008

I've only listened to the Planet Money teaser but my first thought was that even if all they were saying was true (and from the above article it doesn't look like it), surely the best way to deal with the problem would be to raise wages and provide jobs so that people don't need disability? Oh wait no it's far easier to demonise the people on the bottom rung of society.

# ? Mar 25, 2013 17:42

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# ? May 10, 2024 21:29

peter banana: Sep 2, 2008; Feminism is a socialist, anti-family, political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians.

HolePisser1982 posted:

Hahaha, yeah, totes.
http://mediamatters.org/research/2013/03/22/this-american-life-features-error-riddled-story/193215

Thanks for this, honestly. That story really grabbed me and it's good to know it's not as bad as she made out or rather, hopefully the story and the fact-checking will bring light to the real solutions to this boondoggle. gently caress, TAL, get it together with your fact checking.

Yeah, there was definitely more victim blaming in the Planet Money teaser. Maybe she could have done more to blame the fleeing employers for this boondoggle. I saw that just on the edges of the piece but you're right, it should have been explicit.

# ? Mar 25, 2013 17:48

doctorfrog: Mar 14, 2007; Great.

I'll be listening to the latest TAL at work today. This should be interesting. TAL just got done washing their hands from the Fat Turd at Foxconn thing, I imagine Ira Glass and Tori Malatea (sp?) are going to be putting on their curbstomping shoes again.

# ? Mar 25, 2013 18:00

Gio: Jun 20, 2005

doctorfrog posted:

I'll be listening to the latest TAL at work today. This should be interesting. TAL just got done washing their hands from the Fat Turd at Foxconn thing, I imagine Ira Glass and Tori Malatea (sp?) are going to be putting on their curbstomping shoes again.

Holy poo poo I did not realize this. Mike Daisey--

I tend to disagree that they will do anything about this. Daisey's story was a case of outright fraud, whereas this is a lot of empty truisms and choice of framing.

# ? Mar 25, 2013 18:09

Mr. Fix It: Oct 26, 2000; 💀ayyy💀

I dunno, a lot of that debunking article seems to be taking things out of context or not using the same metrics. For instance, the PM/TAL reporting said the number of children on SSI was 7 times higher than it was 30 years ago. The debunking article says that it's only gone up slightly in the last 10 years. These don't seem incompatible, especially since part of the thesis was that welfare reform was what pushed more people on to disability. And I don't view anything said by PM/TAL as victim-blaming: it's just people doing what their incentivized to do. It's an imperfect piece, but MediaMatters is putting words in their mouths.

# ? Mar 25, 2013 18:13

cbirdsong: Sep 8, 2004; Commodore of the Apocalypso; Lipstick Apathy

FYI, there's a thread on D&D on all this: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3540117

# ? Mar 25, 2013 18:15

Lady Gaza: Nov 20, 2008

Mr. Fix It posted:

I dunno, a lot of that debunking article seems to be taking things out of context or not using the same metrics. For instance, the PM/TAL reporting said the number of children on SSI was 7 times higher than it was 30 years ago. The debunking article says that it's only gone up slightly in the last 10 years. These don't seem incompatible, especially since part of the thesis was that welfare reform was what pushed more people on to disability. And I don't view anything said by PM/TAL as victim-blaming: it's just people doing what their incentivized to do. It's an imperfect piece, but MediaMatters is putting words in their mouths.

As I said I've only listened to the PM bit, but when that politician was talking about his broken ankle I got annoyed. Yeah he may not claim disability because of it but that doesn't invalidate other people's claims. I also didn't like the digs about mental health issues. I need to listen to TAL but I'm wondering if they explored the angle that perhaps the reason for the increase in disability and in particular mental health issues is due to stagnating wages and increased stress of average people over the past few decades.

edit:

cbirdsong posted:

FYI, there's a thread on D&D on all this: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3540117

Didn't see this, thanks. I'll take further discussion there.

Lady Gaza fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Mar 25, 2013

# ? Mar 25, 2013 18:17

Mr. Fix It: Oct 26, 2000; 💀ayyy💀

I really don't think this episode was about disability being bad. I thought they pretty clearly said that more people being on disability is in part a result of the failures of welfare reform: people that should be getting actual welfare are instead getting this de facto welfare. They basically fully agree that more poverty leads to more people on disability. I really don't get all the screeching about it.

# ? Mar 25, 2013 18:57

Qtotonibudinibudet: Nov 7, 2011; Omich poluyobok, skazhi ty narkoman? ya prosto tozhe gde to tam zhivu, mogli by vmeste uyobyvat' narkotiki

Mr. Fix It posted:

I really don't think this episode was about disability being bad. I thought they pretty clearly said that more people being on disability is in part a result of the failures of welfare reform: people that should be getting actual welfare are instead getting this de facto welfare. They basically fully agree that more poverty leads to more people on disability. I really don't get all the screeching about it.

The blog post on the PM site at least definitely said "disability is bad" at least once, most notably talking about Jahleel, the kid with a learning disability. They may be right; there's certainly the potential for perverse incentives in the situation they described (getting $700 a month to fund whatever can help Jahleel succeed in school), but they didn't really present much data to back up a lot of their more damning claims--everything's anecdotes. The data-based correlations they did present aren't really that surprising. Planet Money probably isn't really equipped to gather all the data they'd need, but the SSA probably does, and they weren't interviewed beyond the bit about funding running out.

# ? Mar 25, 2013 19:31

Jetsetlemming: Dec 31, 2007; i'Am also a buetifule redd panda

Mr. Fix It posted:

I really don't think this episode was about disability being bad. I thought they pretty clearly said that more people being on disability is in part a result of the failures of welfare reform: people that should be getting actual welfare are instead getting this de facto welfare. They basically fully agree that more poverty leads to more people on disability. I really don't get all the screeching about it.

That bit where they dismissively refer to the requirements for children to be considered disabled as just "anything that prevents progress with school" is definitely worth heat imo. Besides that getting disability requires more than that, dismissing an inability to function in a school setting is terrible. Education is pretty goddamn important, and if a child needs extra to accomplish it, they absolutely should get it.

# ? Mar 26, 2013 15:48

Gio: Jun 20, 2005

Ira Glass and TAL stand by the story despite criticism.

quote:

�This American Life� is swinging back at the liberal watchdog group Media Matters for America after the latter attacked its report on the rise of federal disability payments.

The report, �Unfit for Work: The Startling Rise of Disability in America,� ran last week on Public Radio International�s �This American Life,� as well as NPR�s �Planet Money� and �All Things Considered.� Media Matters posted an article highly critical of the piece on Friday, and has been calling on �This American Life� via Twitter to fact-check it.

�Our report on disability programs was fact-checked line by line by an outside fact-checker, in addition to fact-checking by the reporter and her editors,� said Ira Glass, host of �This American Life,� in a statement to IBTimes. �We know of no factual errors. We stand by the story.�

For the story in question, Chana Joffe-Walt, a reporter for �Planet Money,� spoke with residents of Hale County, Ala., where she reported that one in four working-age adults receive disability benefits. In an attempt to explain the federal program�s seemingly arbitrary eligibility criteria, Joffe-Walt said in the report that the definition of disability is �squishy enough� that one person with, for instance, high blood pressure could be labeled as disabled while another might not.

The reporter also looked at the staggering increase in the number of children on Supplemental Security Income, a program for children and adults who are both poor and disabled, which has grown sevenfold in the last three decades, according to Joffe-Walt.

It was that second part of the report that set off Media Matters, which typically spends its time calling out the likes of Rush Limbaugh and Fox News, not public radio. In an attempted takedown of Joffe-Walt�s piece, Hannah Groch-Begley, a Media Matters researcher, blasted the radio programs -- and �This American Life,� in particular -- for airing what it called an �error-riddled� story that promoted a series of myths about disability and SSI.

Among the group�s complaints was what it perceived as Joffe-Walt�s implication that the rise of disability claims was due in part to families using children to �pull� benefits. According to Joffe-Walt, a number of Hale County residents told her that they want a kid who can �pull a check," as those families who do receive disability benefits -- for physical or intellectual disabilities -- often rely on those funds to keep them afloat. In one case, a mother admitted to Joffe-Walt that she discouraged her son from getting a job because it would mean that their family could no longer collect his checks.

Media Matters countered those anecdotes by saying that the rise in benefits is tied to the recession and an increase in child poverty. The group cited research from the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities.

Following its article, Media Matters continued to criticize �This American Life� on Twitter, calling on the program to fact-check Joffe-Walt�s report.

.@thisamerlife should fact check the story they (and NPR's @planetmoney) ran about disability and children

But Glass said the criticism mischaracterizes its reporting in a number of ways. �Media Matters criticizes our report for saying that SSI is not financially beneficial to families who get it, that SSI for children discourages parents from working, and that only non-medical criteria are used to get kids on SSI,� Glass said in the statement. �None of those things are in our story.�

Glass also took issue with Media Matters� claim that the rise in the number of children on disability can be accounted for by a rise in child poverty and the current economic downturn. �They choose data from 2000-2009 to back up that claim,� Glass said. �As we point out in our reporting, when you look at a longer period of time -- at 30 years of economic data -- you see a different story.�

�This American Life,� which first aired in 1995, has built up a reputation for solid fact-checking over the years. In one rare instance last year, a reporter discovered fabrications in a story by the monologist Mike Daisey, whose solo show �The Agony and the Ecstasy of Steve Jobs,� about working conditions in China, was excerpted on the program. In response, Glass dedicated an entire episode -- �The Retraction� -- to detailing the errors.

# ? Mar 27, 2013 04:15

Entropic: Feb 21, 2007; patriarchy sucks

The Doppelgangers episode that played recently (was it a repeat?) was pretty bad. Between Fred Armison's bad, unfunny Ira Glass imitation, and the dumb story about someone somewhere possibly maybe making pork bung calamari which went on way too long and ended up going nowhere, it felt like a really low-effort episode.

# ? Mar 27, 2013 04:23

Drunkboxer: Jun 30, 2007

Entropic posted:

The Doppelgangers episode that played recently (was it a repeat?) was pretty bad. Between Fred Armison's bad, unfunny Ira Glass imitation, and the dumb story about someone somewhere possibly maybe making pork bung calamari which went on way too long and ended up going nowhere, it felt like a really low-effort episode.

That was my favorite recent episode actually. Sometimes they do lighter stuff, not everything has to be disabled babies getting shot in the face or something.

# ? Mar 27, 2013 16:46

tnimark: Dec 22, 2009

Drunkboxer posted:

That was my favorite recent episode actually. Sometimes they do lighter stuff, not everything has to be disabled babies getting shot in the face or something.

Yeah I enjoyed the Doppleganger episode too. Armison was great.

# ? Mar 27, 2013 21:02

GrandpaPants: Feb 13, 2006; Free to roam the heavens in man's noble quest to investigate the weirdness of the universe!

Drunkboxer posted:

That was my favorite recent episode actually. Sometimes they do lighter stuff, not everything has to be disabled babies getting shot in the face or something.

I would have liked the Doppelganger episode a lot more if they had been a bit more adamant that calamari wasn't pork bung. It seems to have created this urban myth that I still see on people's Facebook feeds without realizing that it pretty much started with "some guy said this."

Armisen was great though.

# ? Mar 27, 2013 21:12

doctorfrog: Mar 14, 2007; Great.

I liked it too, but like many an Armisen gag it seemed to go on for far too long.

# ? Mar 27, 2013 22:12

Hoops: Aug 19, 2005; A Black Mark For Retarded Posting

I didn't even think the impression was that dead on. It wasn't bad, but probably not enough to stand up as voice only, which I guess it really needs to be if you're doing Ira Glass.

# ? Mar 27, 2013 22:27

Doodarazumas: Oct 7, 2007

Hoops posted:

I didn't even think the impression was that dead on. It wasn't bad, but probably not enough to stand up as voice only, which I guess it really needs to be if you're doing Ira Glass.

Which is strange because default Armisen is already about 60% of the way to Ira Glass.

# ? Mar 28, 2013 08:35

C-Euro: Mar 20, 2010; Soiled Meat

Am I the only one who thought the ASMR story in this week's episode was completely insane, and borderline unsettling? :stare:

# ? Apr 2, 2013 13:27

astr0man: Feb 21, 2007; hollyeo deuroga

So I watched some of those ASMR videos and they are pretty weird, especially the roleplaying ones. But I definitely do get the tingling sensation from the sounds so I might be a crazy person too :ohdear:

# ? Apr 2, 2013 14:17

doctorfrog: Mar 14, 2007; Great.

C-Euro posted:

Am I the only one who thought the ASMR story in this week's episode was completely insane, and borderline unsettling?

I listened to it on a good pair of headphones, and I can kind of get what she's experiencing, but hearing whispering of the kind she's hooked on is unsettling. Bob Ross, on the other hand, he's just relaxing. I think I've experienced what she's talking about in a lesser way, when I listen to certain kinds of music, I sometimes have a sensation down the back of my skull. I stumbled on a great video of an Australian group playing Copland last week, and it happened then. But I don't go actively seeking it as a hobby.

I mostly found the segment vaguely gross and fetishistic, a notch or two below women smooshing cakes with their bottoms or popping balloons.

# ? Apr 2, 2013 17:14

WE DOIN IT NOW: Jun 18, 2005; Never compromise, not even in the face of Armageddon.

I had no idea that sensation had a name or was something everyone didn't have with certain things. I've never really mentioned it to anyone though. I definitely get it with certain sounds and actions like the sound of someone vacuuming, some whisper stuff, and getting a haircut.

I've never seeked it out though or spent hours watching people whisper on youtube. That seems very much like a weird fetish and creepy and her boyfriend is right to question it.

# ? Apr 2, 2013 19:09

Zsinjeh: Jun 11, 2007; :shoboobs:

doctorfrog posted:

I listened to it on a good pair of headphones, and I can kind of get what she's experiencing, but hearing whispering of the kind she's hooked on is unsettling. Bob Ross, on the other hand, he's just relaxing. I think I've experienced what she's talking about in a lesser way, when I listen to certain kinds of music, I sometimes have a sensation down the back of my skull. I stumbled on a great video of an Australian group playing Copland last week, and it happened then. But I don't go actively seeking it as a hobby.

I mostly found the segment vaguely gross and fetishistic, a notch or two below women smooshing cakes with their bottoms or popping balloons.

I'm on the same wavelength. Bob Ross is incredibly relaxing, to an extend where I get where she's coming from with the whole ASMR angle. The lady whispering with the really loud smacking noises felt incredibly unsettling though, especially with a really decent pair of headphones. Only got a really creepy erotic vibe from it, like it was supposed to be some sort of erotic hypnosis. Especially when she mentioned all the different youtube requests which had me laughing loud.

# ? Apr 2, 2013 19:33

Sexy Randal: Jul 26, 2006; woah

I found the ASMR story interesting because that's kind of what I experienced and that story is pretty common to people who stumble upon ASMR. Ever since I was a kid I got that weird sensation in bizarre circumstances. I'd be in the library and the kid next to me would just be writing quietly and my scalp would get all tingly and I'd feel really relaxed and euphoric.

I never thought much about it until I was an adult and figured "well that's kind of insane and something must be wrong with me because I have never heard anyone else describe this". Finding out that tons of other people experience the same thing from similarly bizarre triggers was pretty goddamned mind blowing.

# ? Apr 2, 2013 19:37

Drunkboxer: Jun 30, 2007

You are all frightening weirdos and should commit yourselves to a mental institution.

# ? Apr 2, 2013 20:15

C-Euro: Mar 20, 2010; Soiled Meat

WE DOIN IT NOW posted:

I've never seeked it out though or spent hours watching people whisper on youtube. That seems very much like a weird fetish and creepy and her boyfriend is right to question it.

Pretty much this. Comparing women talking about their shopping trips to porn (and doing so at great length!) was pretty creepy. Also, why is her boyfriend the one telling her to watch Twilight, and not the other way around?

# ? Apr 2, 2013 21:03

WE DOIN IT NOW: Jun 18, 2005; Never compromise, not even in the face of Armageddon.

God damnit TAL. I just googled 'vacuum asmr' and of course there's tons of videos for this and they trigger it for me. Now I feel like a creep.

Gettin' high off vacuums I guess.

# ? Apr 2, 2013 21:05

Haerc: Jan 2, 2011

The normal ASMR stuff like whispering/whatever never does anything to me, is it like when someone rubs rough paper together (ex: the outer layer of cardboard)? Cause that poo poo is worse than nails on a chalkboard to me.

# ? Apr 2, 2013 21:29

Hoops: Aug 19, 2005; A Black Mark For Retarded Posting

I just tried a youtube video and I definitely felt something pretty immediately. It was really mild, but it was like that sensation you get the second before you yawn, when your jaw muscles relax and start tingling, and it spreads to your scalp. Pretty interesting.

I put TAL on when I'm drifting off to sleep so I only remember the start of that segment, I'll have to listen to it again tonight.

# ? Apr 3, 2013 00:58

Hitch: Jul 1, 2012

I just listened to the ASMR story and immediately knew exactly what they were talking about. I did the exact same thing with Bob Ross videos, I just had no idea it had a name. I also spent nowhere near an hour a day for a few years watching things like that. I may have done an hour at a time every year or two, if that.

However, I did go to YouTube and watch a 10 min trying to see if I could feel the effects intentionally. Short answer...yup! After watching the video below, I had the "head tingles" as TAL called it. There has got to be a better name for that poo poo than "head tingles."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oapgiZc5i-g

Either way, I know I'm going to have to check this out from an evolutionary biology perspective. For what reason would that have evolved? How pervasive is it? I need to know!!

# ? Apr 3, 2013 02:01

Mogambo: Jan 6, 2011; This has been a public service announcement to put me on ignore.

Sucks to your ASMR.

# ? Apr 3, 2013 05:50

TinfoilHate: Nov 19, 2003; What the hell is wrong
with you people?

I swear there was a GBS thread on ASMR not too long ago, too.

# ? Apr 3, 2013 13:19

Grim Up North: Dec 12, 2011

ASMR - Oh, my fetish? Japanese women with speech impediments whispering.

# ? Apr 3, 2013 14:49

GrandpaPants: Feb 13, 2006; Free to roam the heavens in man's noble quest to investigate the weirdness of the universe!

I'm listening to the yellow fever story right now and it is far more disturbing than people whispering on youtube. This Steven guy disturbs me on some fundamental level.

# ? Apr 3, 2013 15:25

C-Euro: Mar 20, 2010; Soiled Meat

Grim Up North posted:

ASMR - Oh, my fetish? Japanese women with speech impediments whispering.

trollby posted:

What the gently caress is wrong with all of you.

# ? Apr 3, 2013 18:13

Qtotonibudinibudet: Nov 7, 2011; Omich poluyobok, skazhi ty narkoman? ya prosto tozhe gde to tam zhivu, mogli by vmeste uyobyvat' narkotiki

GrandpaPants posted:

I'm listening to the yellow fever story right now and it is far more disturbing than people whispering on youtube. This Steven guy disturbs me on some fundamental level.

Next, watch the Louie Theroux Thai Brides episode. The TAL yellow fever guy just doesn't compare.

# ? Apr 3, 2013 19:05

Grim Up North: Dec 12, 2011

fivre posted:

Next, watch the Louie Theroux Thai Brides episode. The TAL yellow fever guy just doesn't compare.

Is that something like the "Thai to Thy" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqT-nOc3o5M series that was linked in the documentary thread? I just couldn't stomach it and stopped watching. :smith:

# ? Apr 3, 2013 20:34

Crisco Kid: Jan 14, 2008; Where does the wind come from that blows upon your face, that fans the pages of your book?

WE DOIN IT NOW posted:

I had no idea that sensation had a name or was something everyone didn't have with certain things. I've never really mentioned it to anyone though. I definitely get it with certain sounds and actions like the sound of someone vacuuming, some whisper stuff, and getting a haircut.

I've never seeked it out though or spent hours watching people whisper on youtube. That seems very much like a weird fetish and creepy and her boyfriend is right to question it.

It's too bad the ASMR/whispering thing comes off as fetish-y to some people, because for me it couldn't be further from sexual. It's just ultra, ultra relaxing, sort of like a spa for my brain. Too bad most people are loving terrible at conveying that, like in the GBS thread.

I've got whole playlists of this stuff because I'm a borderline insomniac, and these videos have consistently helped me get to sleep when nothing else does. My brain can ignore music or white noise and go racing for hours in spite of them, but I focus too much on sounds and dialogue to fall asleep to movies or television; ASMR is that perfect balance between maintaining my attention while being soothing enough to allow for sleep. Honestly, most of the video posters mention sleep or relaxation at some point, so it's really nothing more than a weird phenomenon that has been harnessed for a useful purpose. Now instead of encountering ASMR only when I don't want to be drowsy (like at the library, in a classroom, getting my hair cut), I can access it when it's actually beneficial. It's so innocuous that it's annoying when people make a big deal out of it, including the TAL reporter who would go so far as to consider it a "hobby."

Crisco Kid fucked around with this message at 05:45 on Apr 4, 2013

# ? Apr 4, 2013 05:00

Haerc: Jan 2, 2011

Ugh, I just listened to the ASMR story, and the whispering sets my teeth on edge. I hate it.

# ? Apr 4, 2013 05:51

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# ? May 10, 2024 21:29

tnimark: Dec 22, 2009

Crisco Kid posted:

It's so innocuous that it's annoying when people make a big deal out of it, including the TAL reporter who would go so far as to consider it a "hobby."

Yeah this. Count me down as someone whose mind was blown listening to this episode because this happens to me and I had no idea it was a thing. I didn't know that these youtube videos existed or that this sensation was something that people actively seek out. Now that I know a little more about it I totally understand people using it as a relaxation technique, but calling it a 'lifestyle' or a 'hobby' is pretty strange to me.

# ? Apr 4, 2013 05:59

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