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DEUCE SLUICE posted:As long as you can get a 6MT who gives a poo poo if you can also get it with some form of auto? Yeah, DCT is cool and all, but it will probably carry a serious price premium, take a decent amount of engineering resources to add, as well as possibly put a cap on future power upgrades (since you don't want to have two separate engine setups based just on transmission). It also tends to eliminate true manual options. I prefer the manual being the "proper" way it comes, and a half-assed conventional auto stuck in for the rest. Besides, I don't think CVTs are rugged enough yet that they can handle 300 hp plus demanding driving without being pretty expensive.
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Mar 30, 2013 01:36
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The JDM Legacy GT comes with a 296hp DI 2.0 turbo boxer (the one that'll most likely end up in the WRX) and a CVT.
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Mar 30, 2013 01:45
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Mighty Horse posted:IIRC Kia's current head of design previously worked at Audi. Hes actually their president now too Peter Schreyer
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Mar 30, 2013 01:58
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VikingSkull posted:Mitsubishi once had a rabid enthusiast following. I ask people to name four current production vehicles that Mitsubishi makes. Most people can't. I just can't see how much longer Mitsubishi stays in the US.
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Mar 30, 2013 02:10
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G-Mach posted:I ask people to name four current production vehicles that Mitsubishi makes. Most people can't. I just can't see how much longer Mitsubishi stays in the US. Well they only have the Lancer and Outlander/Outlander Sport now in the US, and the little electric thing. e: It appears they will be selling the new Mirage there too Wandle Cax fucked around with this message at 02:25 on Mar 30, 2013 |
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Mar 30, 2013 02:22
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Wandle Cax posted:Well they only have the Lancer and Outlander/Outlander Sport now in the US, and the little electric thing. I think "selling" may be too strong of word for mitsubishi. "offering" would be more appropriate.
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Mar 30, 2013 02:40
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G-Mach posted:I ask people to name four current production vehicles that Mitsubishi makes. Most people can't. I just can't see how much longer Mitsubishi stays in the US. Lancer Eclipse? Ummmmm....Endevour? Wow, that actually is hard. Edit: This isn't even fair! They're only even offering four vehicles and two are called Outlanders! (Unless you count Lancer, Lancer Sportback, and Lancer Evolution as distinct models.) Endless Mike fucked around with this message at 05:17 on Mar 30, 2013 |
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Mar 30, 2013 05:13
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They still make the Eclipse? edit: Holy crap, they do. Why?
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Mar 30, 2013 05:18
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They haven't been making the Eclipse since 2011.
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Mar 30, 2013 05:20
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Looks like they offer it in Canada. Even the convertible. http://www.mitsubishi-motors.ca/en/vehicles/eclipse/2012/trims/gs/ http://www.mitsubishi-motors.ca/en/vehicles/eclipse-spyder/2012/trims/gs/
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Mar 30, 2013 05:22
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They still list it on the canadian site, because there are still unsold 2012s sitting on dealers lots, and will be for years to come.
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Mar 30, 2013 05:23
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Come to think of it I didn't see them at the local auto show when they went through. They did have some pretty hilarious salesmen:Local car forum posted:I was sitting in the Evo with the twin clutch transmission, just kinda seeing what the seating position was like and if I could get comfortable because I am finding it really hard to find cars I fit in, go to get out and some young salesperson or product person was like "well, are you going to drive it home after the show?" to which I replied "no thanks I already have a nice car". So he asks me what I drive and then starts going off on a rant how manual transmissions suck and how RWD sucks, and how an Evo will kill my car, how the transmission in the Evo is a "premium transmission and is the same as a Veyrons". I literally had to walk away, I hate people like that.
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Mar 30, 2013 05:34
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Seat Safety Switch posted:They still make the Eclipse? Not for the US. I was just guessing. The US lineup currently consists of three Lancers, two Outlanders, the Galant, and an EV.
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Mar 30, 2013 05:35
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What went wrong with Mitsubishi? I hear rumors they might pull out of the car market entirely. Also what's wrong with the new Eclipse and Lancer? What did I miss?
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Mar 30, 2013 05:39
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Endless Mike posted:Not for the US. I was just guessing. The US lineup currently consists of three Lancers, two Outlanders, the Galant, and an EV. The Galant's been discontinued now too.
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Mar 30, 2013 06:32
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Wandle Cax posted:The Galant's been discontinued now too. Oh no, now what will people who want a 160hp car that only gets 30mpg highway do?
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Mar 30, 2013 06:35
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VikingSkull posted:Mitsubishi once had a rabid enthusiast following. quote:What went wrong with Mitsubishi? I hear rumors they might pull out of the car market entirely. Seems a good way to link this - Yes, Mitsubitshi wont last long with their current insipid lineup especially with the fanatical rabid enthusists who bought them when they were good now wont buy their "me too" crap. That's what happens when you go for the mass market and you arent the size of Honda / Toyota - why the hell would you buy an appliance except from the good appliance makers? quote:Dunno what the situation is like in Aus, but SoA have seen steadily increasing sales for a while now. Same globally, I think. I think like almost half their sales are in the US market now, so, combined with their association with Toyota, naturally their cars are going to get bigger, dumber, and more Americanized. So blame America, really. Someone gets it. Yes, Subaru have been selling more but "appealing to Americans" isnt the real reason so far - they never had the production capacity to meet demand for years and have been selling what they make. Increases in sales havent really been "better" cars more like "More" cars. If they had kept to what they built their reputation on, they would still have increased sales just by having more supply.
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Mar 30, 2013 07:07
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I think you're overestimating the importance of the enthusiast market to Subaru. While what you're saying may be true in Australia that's such a small and insignificant market that it definitely isn't going influence the direction Subaru as a whole goes (I bet they sell more Auto WRXs than manuals globally)
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Mar 30, 2013 07:31
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Ever notice how in the states at least there are little to none Mitsu commercials? They are not even trying.
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Mar 30, 2013 07:50
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Subaru is selling so well in America because they're using ads like these to pull at heartstrings and convince people that buying a Subaru is the best thing you could ever do. Don't under-estimate the power of advertising.
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Mar 30, 2013 08:44
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Endless Mike posted:Lancer  It's kind of a trick question. I just ask it to prove a point on how far Mitsubishi has fallen.
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Mar 30, 2013 14:23
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Cat Terrist posted:Seems a good way to link this - Yes, Mitsubitshi wont last long with their current insipid lineup especially with the fanatical rabid enthusists who bought them when they were good now wont buy their "me too" crap. That's what happens when you go for the mass market and you arent the size of Honda / Toyota - why the hell would you buy an appliance except from the good appliance makers? Mitsubishi's current woes can be traced back to two things. 1) 0/0/0 promotion which lead to a ton of people buying new cars that couldn't afford to buy new cars. A large percentage were repossessed, which lead to a ton of defaulted loans and a ton of barely used 'used' cars flooding the market which depressed new car sales further. 2) Massive massive massive loss in trust in their home market due to a decade spanning coverup of mechanical defects. Mitsubishi's current lineup's lack of success isn't due to "me too" crap, it's due to the fact that they now have 3 cars in their lineup and most of them are aging models that can't compete anymore. This was caused by lack of development funds due to the first two issues I listed.
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Mar 30, 2013 19:18
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Mitsubishi in the UK really hit the jackpot with the L200, they caught the "lifestyle double cab pickup" wave just right and I'd be willing to say that one vehicle line kept their heads above water here, but that didn't stop their market share dropping a third in 2012 compared to 2011. They sell about as many cars a year as Smart do - and that's still triple what Subaru managed, who themselves saw a 25% drop in share in the same period. Looking at these kinds of figures is pretty interesting. For instance, Land Rover in the US sell less than a tenth of what Jeep move off forecourts, and that's reversed in the UK - which is pretty much what I expected, but I didn't realise that the number of vehicles LR sell is not that far out between the two markets, it's about 40k in the US and 45k in the UK.
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Mar 30, 2013 19:55
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On the other hand, I'm sometimes surprised by how badly Mitsubishi was left behind during the SUV fad in the US. The Pajero/Montero seem pretty popular and well-respected overseas, but they never seemed particularly significant at all even compared to the other Japanese makes.
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Mar 30, 2013 21:23
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Mitsubishi didn't even sell cars in Canada prior to 2003. Outside of the Lancer their market position is similar to Suzuki: cheap financed clone cars for recent immigrants or people with demolished credit. Based on their marketing recently it seems like they are planning on the new Mirage saving their bacon in Canada. However I suspect the recent trend towards "luxurifying" cheap hatchbacks will leave them behind once more. Even the Chevy Sonic has standard features that were luxury just a decade ago.
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Mar 30, 2013 21:58
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Cream_Filling posted:On the other hand, I'm sometimes surprised by how badly Mitsubishi was left behind during the SUV fad in the US. The Pajero/Montero seem pretty popular and well-respected overseas, but they never seemed particularly significant at all even compared to the other Japanese makes. Honestly, the Montero from what I hear was a great little truck, on par with contemporary 4Runners and such. The problem is that Mitsu starved it to death by focusing entirely on their sport lineup, and then abandoning that. They could have had a nice lifeline in the Montero if they'd stuck with it.
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Mar 31, 2013 06:04
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They still make the Pajero. It's more of a LandCruiser Prado competitor though, a much more expensive vehicle than a 4Runner which is why I don't think they could make any money selling it in the USA
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Mar 31, 2013 06:31
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The LandCruiser Prado is the 4runner here and has been for several years.
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Mar 31, 2013 06:45
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Related but not the same.
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Mar 31, 2013 09:05
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dissss posted:They still make the Pajero. It's more of a LandCruiser Prado competitor though, a much more expensive vehicle than a 4Runner which is why I don't think they could make any money selling it in the USA We're talking like the 1993-2008 era, though. A time when Ford was selling Explorers for almost $30k a pop. Even the modern 4Runner starts at $32k and goes all the way up to 40k, with the Lexus GX (another Land Cruiser Prado derivative) taking over from there.
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Mar 31, 2013 19:31
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Cat Terrist posted:Seems a good way to link this - Yes, Mitsubitshi wont last long with their current insipid lineup especially with the fanatical rabid enthusists who bought them when they were good now wont buy their "me too" crap. That's what happens when you go for the mass market and you arent the size of Honda / Toyota - why the hell would you buy an appliance except from the good appliance makers? Mitsubishi didn't fail because they stopped catering to enthusiasts. If anything, they failed because they only put effort into their cars for enthusiasts.
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Apr 3, 2013 18:22
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PeterWeller posted:Mitsubishi didn't fail because they stopped catering to enthusiasts. If anything, they failed because they only put effort into their cars for enthusiasts. How do you figure? They axed the Montero, turned the Eclipse into a bloated, gutless piece of poo poo, and by most accounts the Evo X, while obviously faster around a track, is nowhere near as good to drive as the IX. I was never really a Mitsubishi fan, but even I can see that they made much better enthusiast cars 15 years ago than they did even 5 years ago. I'd agree that they don't really put effort into their commuter cars, but they never did, so it's not like that changed. They were sustained for a while by the good fun cars they made; when those stopped being fun, they tanked.
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Apr 3, 2013 18:56
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They did have the VR4 and EVO for enthusiasts, but besides that, they had nothing for the enthusiast market. They were all over the place. A bunch of warmed up over spoilered lancers and mirages I guess for non enthusiasts. History of MMA: Took over the Chrysler factory and made galants, sigmas and lancers. Made a horrible thing called the "colt" The terrible Sigma replaced by the Magna. Lancer gone for a while, Galant updated. I think the Magna was the first family sized car in AU that was FWD, AU design. Also not good. Lancer comes back, Galant is gone. Lancer FWD except for EVO versions, comes in sedan, coupe and wagon. Lancer shortened for a 'Mirage' hatchback, 'Colt' gone. Magna gets bigger, now a V6. you can no longer see a MMA car approaching from the distance due to valve seals or rings letting it burn copious oil out of the tail pipe. Sad to see the classic galants and evos go, smaller cars get worse, goddammit the name 'colt' is back! Colts has all sorts of rally pack BS, same as lancer, but the Magna gets an AWD option! Magna/380 get decent. Never really cracked the lucrative SUV market though, that was probably their downfall here, then MMA closes. Should have spent all that money wasted on the 380 (aussie family car) on a SUV (as the family car as an idea is dead anyway) Thing that always made me wonder about MMA is 1994 lancers mirages still had carbs, and I drove a express/l300 for work and they still had carbs at least to 1998. To sum up, weird company, had some good design in some models, some crazy ideas, some good 4wd awd drivelines too, but loved carbs too much and thought they should compete against the commodore/falcon for a family sedan, while the smart money was on SUVs. edit: probably won't make sense to anyone not in AU, but then again I never ever understood the mits models mentioned in the US market, completely different names as like I said, MMA started with a chrysler business and names and stuck with them a bit. Only Mits names we know are sigma, lancer, colt, galant, evo, magna, 380, pajero, l200/l300 express starwagon and delica(4wd van). Though most know of the FTO and GTO, they aren't common as I think most are imports. Point is they had low volume hero cars, then a bunch of mediocrity. Fo3 fucked around with this message at 19:13 on Apr 3, 2013 |
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Apr 3, 2013 18:59
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Seat Safety Switch posted:
I think if they make the Mirage dirt cheap it might sell ok. The Nissan Versa is extremely dated inside and out, but it sells really well in the US simply because you can get one for like $11k out the door.
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Apr 3, 2013 19:06
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PeterWeller posted:Mitsubishi didn't fail because they stopped catering to enthusiasts. If anything, they failed because they only put effort into their cars for enthusiasts.
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Apr 3, 2013 19:16
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Fucknag posted:How do you figure? They axed the Montero, turned the Eclipse into a bloated, gutless piece of poo poo, and by most accounts the Evo X, while obviously faster around a track, is nowhere near as good to drive as the IX. I was never really a Mitsubishi fan, but even I can see that they made much better enthusiast cars 15 years ago than they did even 5 years ago. The Evo X and the i-Miev (which caters to a different sort of enthusiast) are the only two cars on today's Mitsubishi lots that have the slightest bit of effort put into them. They're the only reasons why someone with decent credit would stop at a Mitsubishi dealer. I wouldn't really call the Montero an enthusiast's car. The Evo essentially replaced the Eclipse as their enthusiast's compact offering. And the 3000GT was always the overpriced, overweight also-ran of the Japanese sports car set. InitialDave posted:They robbed Peter to pay Paul, and then didn't. I'm not sure if you're referencing their financing schemes or the allocation of their engineering resources, but either way, I agree.
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Apr 3, 2013 19:47
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PeterWeller posted:The i-Miev (which caters to a different sort of enthusiast) He was interviewed by I think the NYT and said he wasn't impressed so Mitsu can't even get that right
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Apr 3, 2013 19:58
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PeterWeller posted:I'm not sure if you're referencing their financing schemes or the allocation of their engineering resources, but either way, I agree.
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Apr 3, 2013 20:18
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I really hope the next WRX and STI come with some form of better seats. Or at least the option for better seats as some package. I was really close to picking up a 2012 STI until I test drove and EVO X for comparison reasons and fell in love with the Recaro seats. I would have ended up with the EVO if it wasnt for the fact the local mitsu dealership was terrible and I would have needed to travel a long distance if I ever needed service.
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Apr 4, 2013 00:55
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Franco Caution posted:I really hope the next WRX and STI come with some form of better seats. Or at least the option for better seats as some package. Can't you just put new seats in it? I guess I understand if you can't/don't want to spend the extra bucks?
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