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Aliginge posted:Is it uhhh normal for a new employer to book you into a £500 a week fancybutt apartment for two weeks while you flat-hunt? Yes. That does sound like you made a good choice though 
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Mar 28, 2013 18:24
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Uba Stij posted:Just want to thank mastermind2004, MissMarple, Dinurth, and Freakyzoid for the insight on my post from last week before I was put on probation. Quite welcome. Hope everything works out for you.
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Mar 28, 2013 18:42
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For anyone familiar with HR, how long does it take on average for someone to look at an application from the moment they receive it? I have been sending out applications and monitoring my website traffic but it seems like most companies haven't even opened it. I don't know if it is because of GDC going on right now or what.
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Mar 28, 2013 19:15
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Chernabog posted:For anyone familiar with HR, how long does it take on average for someone to look at an application from the moment they receive it? I have been sending out applications and monitoring my website traffic but it seems like most companies haven't even opened it. I don't know if it is because of GDC going on right now or what. I'd say you're right on the GDC stuff. The recruiters are all over there so they're probably going to sift through a backlog of stuff next week.
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Mar 28, 2013 19:48
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Most recruiters will bring home 2 or 3 banker boxes of resume's after GDC. The really popular places like Riot and Blizzard will be bringing home six or seven. If you got one in at the main office right before GDC it's going to probably get buried under an avalanche it may take them weeks to sift through. At three weeks past GDC, if you haven't heard back, no one would begrudge you saying "Hey guys, I sent my resume in right before GDC, did it maybe get lost in the shuffle?"
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Mar 28, 2013 21:17
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Yeah, that's my fear. Worst time to get laid off, and I was also unable to go to GDC this year.
Chernabog fucked around with this message at 21:24 on Mar 28, 2013 |
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Mar 28, 2013 21:22
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Dinurth posted:Quite welcome. Hope everything works out for you. Yeah, I live in the New York area and was looking at Rockstar's website. They have an opening for a video editor but I'm not as experienced on that end of things as I am in the production planning and so forth. Guess I should eventually work on getting my Final Cut Pro certification just in case.
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Mar 28, 2013 22:43
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Uba Stij posted:Guess I should eventually work on getting my Final Cut Pro certification just in case. Except for IT people. I think they still care about certs for them?
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Mar 28, 2013 22:56
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Shalinor posted:Unless other studios work differently than the ones I've been at - you can kind of ignore any certifications you've got or will ever have, if you go into games. The industry's not even 100% on whether degrees are a desired thing. Experience/portfolio trumps everything else. Well thats something good to know, thank you. Edit - I also have some strong experience in community management so I'm going to be looking into jobs that do that with different publishers & developers. Mekchu fucked around with this message at 23:18 on Mar 28, 2013 |
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Mar 28, 2013 23:09
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Shalinor posted:Unless other studios work differently than the ones I've been at - you can kind of ignore any certifications you've got or will ever have, if you go into games. The industry's not even 100% on whether degrees are a desired thing. Experience/portfolio trumps everything else. I think that works well if you have an "in" at a company, but it sounds like many companies now use pretty generic HR software for parsing incoming applications. I keep hearing stories of people with 5-10+ years of experience getting rejected hours after applying on a weekend. This makes it sounds like they've tripped whatever flags the robot was set to look for, and I'm wondering if it's a lack of an actual degree for some people. Some of them do have degrees, so I'm curious what other things commonly trip these instant rejections.
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Mar 28, 2013 23:17
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Just finished the 2nd art test I've ever done and funnily enough for only the 2nd character art job I've applied for. Fingers crossed! 
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Mar 28, 2013 23:51
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ceebee posted:Just finished the 2nd art test I've ever done and funnily enough for only the 2nd character art job I've applied for. Fingers crossed! As someone who is not an artist, I ask: What does an art test entail? Is it like a technical thing to make sure you know how to use the tools? What does it reveal that a portfolio doesn't?
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Mar 29, 2013 02:46
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emoticon posted:As someone who is not an artist, I ask: What does an art test entail? Is it like a technical thing to make sure you know how to use the tools? What does it reveal that a portfolio doesn't? If you can work to a designated style and produce requested material in a designated time frame, I would imagine.
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Mar 29, 2013 03:00
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Portfolios contain work that I could've spent years perfecting or that I could've had professors help me with etc. Art tests show you can work effectively on something that you aren't in control of in a style that isn't yours in an acceptable timeframe.
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Mar 29, 2013 03:11
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The quippy version of that is "Portfolios show what you can do, art tests show what you will do." They also serve a pretty important purpose in giving a consistent piece of work to evaluate - if you were told to do a stylized take on this particular provided concept image, you can take three or four of those from different applicants and plop them next to each other to compare. You can't really do that with portfolios to the same extent, since the subject matter is generally so different (though bonus points if you've been around the block enough you start noticing pieces done for art tests from certain companies showing up in portfolios). Also one small piece of advice, having made the mistake myself. If you're a designer who requests a lot of character assets, don't sit down and math out the person-hours involved in the creation of the pieces you requested. It'll give you an ulcer and a perpetual sense of worry you're not showing off their stuff fabulously enough when it comes time to put it in the game.
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Mar 29, 2013 10:17
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Aliginge posted:Is it uhhh normal for a new employer to book you into a £500 a week fancybutt apartment for two weeks while you flat-hunt? Do you know how many millions of pounds 4J are making off of Minecraft? That game still has more active online players than Call of Duty.
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Mar 29, 2013 12:14
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Oof. Iron Leg - I hope you're ok. Booyah supposedly laid off a huge chunk of their staff. http://techcrunch.com/2013/03/28/we...cus-to-tablets/
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Mar 29, 2013 17:46
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I have a quick question for anyone who might be at 343. If you are lurking please shoot me a pm
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Mar 30, 2013 00:51
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I'm a studying audio engineer and I've been looking for a way to get into the games industry by means of audio. We're told that there are THOUSANDS of entry ways with audio (games and not) but I'm curious what would be a way to stand out among the others. If anyone in the thread has worked with audio in games, either producing audio or implementing audio, is there anything specifically that people look for? I'm no musician so I don't make scores or things like that unfortunately.
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Mar 30, 2013 08:45
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Normally I just lurk this thread, but GDC was exceptionally depressing this year. This was my 6th GDC, but I am now also headed into my 3rd year of the design program at DigiPen. While I don't consider myself an awesome designer by any means, I am definitely happy with the (seemingly) crazy amount of progress I've made in the past couple of years. Of course there is plenty about professional game design that I've never been exposed to, but I am constantly trying to figure out how to best bridge that gap. This year, I talked to a few people about what they are looking for in potential designers or what the most realistic approach was for actually getting a shot, here is some of what I found out: 1. Ship a AAA title first or we don't really want to hire you. 2. Get a game into IGF or we don't really want to hire you. 3. Bullshit everything until someone gives you a shot. And, if you get said shot, then work 14 hours a day and hope that you can learn everything you need to avoid getting fired. (Also, no one wants to hold your hand they just want you to sit down in front of a computer and make money for them.) 4. Don't bullshit anything, because there are already too many lovely professional designers. (I did not hear this from Richard Garriott, haha) 5. Apply for our internship program (no elaboration on what makes an applicant stand out). Unfortunately, this advice wasn't stuff that I honestly felt was actionable information. Hopefully this doesn't come across as whiny, it's more or less just pure frustration stemming from anxiety and uncertainty. I definitely know enough to do everything I need to put together my own games, be it analog or digital (and have done so multiple times already), but jack-off-all-trades just don't seem very desirable to companies. I used to think that I wanted to work at a studio, but now it seems like I will always be faced with the inevitable Catch 22 of previous industry/AAA experience. Of course being able to say that I am just going to make my own job is awesome and all, but it also isn't a financially sound idea right off the bat (especially with any amount of student loans waiting to be paid back). I feel like it might not be so bad if my school didn't own all four years of my work, but I also didn't understand the significance of what I was signing away upon getting accepted. TL;DR: I want to make games for a living, but it seems hopeless. Is there anyone who is/has been in a similar situation in recent years and got it figured out? Also, is my school robbing me blind? Cheers fellas. Azereki fucked around with this message at 11:34 on Mar 30, 2013 |
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Mar 30, 2013 11:31
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You make it sound like your options are AAA, or by-yourself indie. Surely there's some middle ground if you think AAA is unattainable?
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Mar 30, 2013 11:44
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Akuma posted:You make it sound like your options are AAA, or by-yourself indie. Surely there's some middle ground if you think AAA is unattainable? 
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Mar 30, 2013 12:42
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There's no real one way to get in the industry, but I'll tell you what I tell people that ask me stuff. My personal advice is two parted: -make games and build up a portfolio, whether if its through freelancing or just in your spare time. -make lots of friends/acquaintances in the industry, the more folks who know you AND like you, the better chance you have of hearing about job openings or getting help to apply to places. My experience has been that getting a job is a combination of what you've proved you can do plus who you know in the world at large. As to whether digipen is ripping you off? BioWare sure liked hiring folks from there, but education was always a footnote, the people I know of had a solid body of work / good portfolio and it was my understanding that digipen helped them have that.
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Mar 30, 2013 13:21
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Sort of related, has anyone had any experience with the Brunel MA course in Digital Games Theory and Design or it's graduates? I might take it depending on what I'm doing around August/September this year, and the testimonials seem to paint it in a good light, and I'm interested in several names they have as guest lecturers this year.
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Mar 30, 2013 13:45
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Azereki posted:TL;DR: I want to make games for a living, but it seems hopeless. Is there anyone who is/has been in a similar situation in recent years and got it figured out? Also, is my school robbing me blind? (This assumes you're doing just the game design track and not the engineering one.) Easy question first: Yes, your school is ripping you off. A "game design" degree is a horrible thing and I wish they'd stop offering them, but schools are for-profit entities and they're making money hand over fist on these "degrees", so....  160k is more than it costs to attend Harvard Law or Harvard Business (though they only take 2 years instead of 4) and what do you get out of a BA in "game design"? A QA job? Ugh. Anyway, let's reframe the harder question: what are YOU bringing to the table when looking for a job? Why would a company take a risk on you? You've got no real experience and nothing to show them that your classmates don't also have. You've probably got passion in spades, but so does everyone else. Ideas? Yup, dime a dozen. Start with the easy stuff: Can you code? Even just a little bit? This'll make it easier to talk to the engineers and not bother them with trivial requests. How are your math skills? Can you make models like whoa and talk to the PMs and BI guys to maximize the dollar bills? Can you write? I mean really write. Not just ensure grammatical correctness, but write compelling narratives, straight-forward calls to action, punchy copy, and not get mired down in verbose prose that's impossible to fit on the screen after being translated to German. How's your background in history, psychology, and sociology? If I saw your bookshelf, is it covered in GRRM and other trashy fantasy or do are you a dutiful student of the liberal arts, wishing you had time to work your way through St. John's curriculum in your spare time? So step 1: Be well-rounded. Step 2: Make things. Make lots of things. Make paper games, make web apps, make jewelry, make arduino boards. Most will suck, but that's cool, because every time you make something you 1) learn a whole bunch of stuff (which is why I like diversity in the stuff that you've made- it gives more experience than just jamming out 181 iterations of a fighting game balance model), and 2) you now have stuff to show off. Being able to whip out your phone or a box of hand-made dice to play a 2 minute game with someone is awesome. This past weekend at PAX, some high school kid came up to me and was asking about The Industry, and showed me some little physics toy he had made on his ipad. It was pretty dope and we talked about what he liked and didn't like, what I liked and didn't like, and just shot the poo poo for 15 minutes. When he left, I gave him my card and told him that he could email me with any questions about anything. Without these two things, you're basically trying to luck your way into a job, which is entirely possible, but it's going to be a much slower road.
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Mar 30, 2013 14:09
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BizarroAzrael posted:Sort of related, has anyone had any experience with the Brunel MA course in Digital Games Theory and Design or it's graduates? I might take it depending on what I'm doing around August/September this year, and the testimonials seem to paint it in a good light, and I'm interested in several names they have as guest lecturers this year. I like being educated. I got a Masters degree because I would be the first in my entire family to get more than High School Diploma, that wasn't a religious degree. I also did it as a pursuit of knowledge, I was genuinely interested. It was a journey for myself, not anyone else. Especially when it comes to Design, it is a lot more networking and portfolio. Can having a Masters help? Sure, I would bet there are some places that may keep that in mind when deciding who to give a call. tldr: Do it if you are fine with the degree not necessarily helping job prospects
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Mar 30, 2013 16:02
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devilmouse posted:If I saw your bookshelf, is it covered in GRRM and other trashy fantasy or do are you a dutiful student of the liberal arts, wishing you had time to work your way through St. John's curriculum in your spare time?  ... though in my case, it'd be Robert Jordan. I do also read a lot of young adult fiction. It's popcorn for the brain. Though I mostly read detective novels - and I dare you to insult Harry Dresden or Moon Over Soho  EDIT: Just to contrast with devilmouse, if I walked into your house and saw a shelf full of liberal arts high-brow literature and no fun, readable novels, I'd probably also question you as an author. You need a grounding in the craft to write good fiction, and I'm sorry, but if your casual reading is full of nothing but Ulysses, you won't have that grounding. We're writing fiction, not stream of consciousness critiques on the nature of modern civilization. The most important thing is that you read. Read A LOT. If I ask you what your most recent book was, and then ask you to tell me about it / critique it, you'd sure as hell better not give me a blank stare. Designers need to draw their inspirations from a ton of different sources, and they need to be able to pick them all apart and determine exactly what is useful in each. Derivative designs come from designers who do nothing but play <latest popular game> in their off time. EDIT: Also n'thing the request for posting your work. Seriously dude. Not showing that has me and probably a bunch of others wondering if you just suck, or what. Lead with your portfolio. Shalinor fucked around with this message at 17:35 on Mar 30, 2013 |
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Mar 30, 2013 17:09
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Getting A Critique of Pure Reason brb
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Mar 30, 2013 17:14
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Azereki posted:GDC was exceptionally depressing this year. This was my 6th GDC, but I am now also headed into my 3rd year of the design program at DigiPen. Azereki posted:Nah. Sorry if the post came across that way, of course there is always a middle ground! I have just been feeling extra discouraged after this GDC and was hoping to figure out what other directions I should be looking in. Stop going to GDC. Post in this thread instead. Better yet, share some of your actual work if you want direct, helpful advice. Without that, you're just going to get a series of embittered truthbombs from us. This is what happened to you at GDC, except those responses are also "haha yeah cool kid nice to meet you, go away now" lines.
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Mar 30, 2013 17:28
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Azereki posted:here is some of what I found out: I agree with #4, not because there are necessarily lovely designers everywhere, but because it will eventually bite you in the rear end (and be very unsatisfying in the meantime, unless you just get off on deception in general). The others are wrong. Your portfolio is the sure thing to get you hired. Period. It all boils down to one simple fact: If you can show a prospective employer something that you made that's as good as, or better than, something that shipped in their last title, there is no reason for them to not hire you (at least as intern/probationary/whatever, which gives you the chance to prove that the something in question wasn't stolen or otherwise bogus). Granted, this applies more to pure level design than it does to overall game design, but you're not typically going to be hired to design a game. There are various robust toolsets out there to choose from (Unreal, idtech, Source, Unity, etc.), so if you want to get hired, pick one and start creating. There are supportive communities out there for all these toolsets if you want help, advice, and feedback along the way (hint: you will). Make something as good or better than something that shipped, and you will get hired.(Note that I don't say anywhere that this is a particularly fast method; just that it works, and is satisfying in the meantime.) Edit: Also note that the 14-hours-a-day thing may have some truth to it as well, especially while you're new, and depending on where and when you're hired and how much you have to learn. I've been relatively lucky in that regard--we crunch from time to time, usually more toward the end of a dev cycle, but nothing compared to some of the awful, awful horror stories I've heard. Edit2: I missed this the first time: Azereki posted:I definitely know enough to do everything I need to put together my own games, be it analog or digital (and have done so multiple times already) What does that mean? What digital game(s?) have you made? Or are you just talking about game designs? aas Bandit fucked around with this message at 18:05 on Mar 30, 2013 |
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Mar 30, 2013 17:48
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Yeah not to repeat but even though I never been to GDC,(3rd drat time this year!) when your boss and devs are like time to CRUSH those dreams of those kids, it's not surprising they are brutal and strict to would they would want to hire. Also another factor is, isn't there passes specifically students purchase? I can't imagine that wave after wave of students all lining up hoping they be the one to be picked. Also yeah, no portfolio. Nobody is going to crazy to take a shot at you. Maybe those idiots who do Kickstarters  but don't fret about not having a job. GDC isn't just to oh try to get hired. It's also a great place to get network but at the same time you can't go hey here's my card. Gotta talk to them to the point they feel like they can give you one.Another disturbing trend is yeah, the so called "degrees". The only usefulness I've seen is getting QA jbs. You know it's pretty bad when half your team is like oh i"m from this school (for profit) and I ended up here. It's like yeah QA is part of the industry but you are pretty much at the bottom of the barrel. Probably somewhere you really don't want to even attempt to work your way up. Not saying it's impossible but you really REALLY have to show what you are capable of. Also pray that it is a in house QA. At least you'll have the chance to mingle with the artists and designers. I will say this though. Once you do have a little network in the industry it does spread. It is a small world after all. Just to bring up an example. Linkedin isn't really the best place to get hired or anything but boy does it give you an idea how the industry is sometimes. It's like oh hey my friend works here, who has a friend that works there and that friend knows that friend who works at... You get the point. I will admit I got extremely lucky that the associate producer knows me because his sister works with my brother and it has been easy to have some small talks that don't involve a job. Sure it doesn't immediately translate into getting a better position then QA, but it is the little things that help out too. (just not as big as a portfolio of course) edit: Yeah those 14 hours are not an exaggeration. Ah I remember crunch time when back then at Sony we didn't get out til 2am because of being very close to the "going gold" date. Like nothing wrong with the whole QA working their way up, but it's more of a Cinderella type story more so than anything. God knows I roll my eyes over when Developers are like so and so ended up being the sound engineer. It's like way to go promoting false hope. Haha.
Shindragon fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Mar 30, 2013 |
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Mar 30, 2013 18:01
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There is also the slower and more potentially frustrating way to get in - which is, get a QA job at a company that develops games, let them know at some point you want to do design, and then claw your way above the pack to stand out and get a shot. As much as I know this way sounds lovely, it's how I and many other designers that I work with got in. It's also nice because you have a job (even if its not a perfect job) while you're trying to get into dev, and you also can make connections with the people in the company that will eventually be making the decisions about hiring anyways.
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Mar 30, 2013 18:02
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I believe the bulk of our designers - even those who are now doing higher level stuff like systems design - started out in level design. Mapmaking does seem to be the straightest path into a design career, especially if you can demonstrate artistic or programming ability to complement your basic design sensibilities. I can't speak for other companies but if you applied at mine with no professional experience but a ton of solid modding work you'd at least be considered. At that point the most important thing is being able to speak analytically and in great breadth and depth about game design, as well as being a cultural fit.
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Mar 30, 2013 18:14
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^^^^Yep.multiple folks posted:QA Yep, this can work too. It's more of a crapshoot though, and, depending on your personal situation, may not be as satisfying in the meantime, depending on whether you really enjoy QA work, whether it's in-house, etc.QA often gets this sort of "oh, it's just QA" hand-waving by ignorant people, like it's just some sort of casual jerking-off that's done while working toward a "real job". I hate that poo poo with a passion. Good QA work is demanding, and if you bullshit your way into a QA job purely as a long-shot toward something completely different, you're doing you *and* your employer a disservice. (Not saying the bullshitting/jerk-off part was suggested by anyone, but people seem to interpret it that way sometimes.)
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Mar 30, 2013 18:21
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Oh by no means I though you directed at anyone. There is a reason for that game industry flowchart. Hahah it's mostly the developers who hate QA the most. Thankfully that isn't really the thing with here. Kinda nice to know that my feedback does apply to certain things and not just for filler.
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Mar 30, 2013 18:34
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Azereki posted:have just been feeling extra discouraged after this GDC and was hoping to figure out what other directions I should be looking in. This is about where I sit, as well. (DigiPen bros   )I feel like I didn't get a whole lot done this year at gdc, but on the other hand I don't think there's anithing more I could have got done. There were a few recruiters who encouraged me to try for internships at their companies, but I can only assume it's a little less difficult for programmers on that front. The recommndations I got from people who told me to go away seem to be similar to what's getting posted here: make some portfolio pieces with pics or video, and bring some way to show them off easily. I had a few classmates put the trailers for their games up on youtube and just show them off on a tablet or smartphone, and they got some great responses doing that. Fake edit: Wait a sec. If you're just going into Junior year, you'll have a ton of time to do just that. Are you BS or BA? Real edit: also if I say something completely wrong, please someone shut me up.
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Mar 30, 2013 19:19
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TheRagamuffin posted:The recommndations I got from people who told me to go away seem to be similar to what's getting posted here: make some portfolio pieces with pics or video, and bring some way to show them off easily. I had a few classmates put the trailers for their games up on youtube and just show them off on a tablet or smartphone, and they got some great responses doing that. Is DigiPen seriously not explaining the importance of portfolios? Are we honestly the first people to tell you "you really need to put video/screens of your games together and show that to people, especially on the floor at conventions, if you don't just want to be told to go away"? I'd heard FullSail was better, but I didn't realize it was that much better. If you guys were just wandering around with resumes, ignore all the advice you were given on the floor. You were being told whatever the speaker thought would get you to go away the fastest, or at best, being treated as a starry-eyed kid with no idea what he/she was talking about. Don't let it get you down - it was purely a problem of how you were approaching the people in question. EDIT: VV Maya. (speaking as a programmer that had to support art-side) EDIT2: Maya sandwich. Shalinor fucked around with this message at 19:50 on Mar 30, 2013 |
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Mar 30, 2013 19:43
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Anyone with modeling experience in the industry, which modeling program is more commonly used: 3DS Max or Maya? From what I've heard it's split with a little more working in Maya, been working a bit in 3DS Max and was curious about whether I should switch and focus on Maya. Being able to work in either of them for free thanks to the Autodesk Student stuff has been awesome. Still not really sure what position I want to work toward yet, thinking Technical Artist might be a cool career that lets me keep a foot in both art and programming. Any TAs here have any advice on where to start learning that path?
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Mar 30, 2013 19:47
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Untrue. It's possible to get into the industry without AAA or IGF experience, but you're going to have to work at mobile and shovelware studios at first. Or have a really good portfolio, which is what presumably going to Digipen provides. Another thing to keep in mind, it's probably way harder to break into the industry as a designer than any other discipline because design is more subjective* than any other discipline. The best you can do is be articulate and confident about your opinions (bullshit as much as you can as quickly as you can; you will be asked inane questions that are not representative of how design works in a real production environment) and hope you either get in via connections or luck. *This is why there are so many "lovely" professional designers. It doesn't matter how many design tests or interview gotchas they come up with, at the end of the day the only way to evaluate whether a game is good is after it's been completed, and by that time responsibility gets completely diluted. edit: aas Bandit posted:Yep, this can work too. Yeah, your mileage may vary. My personal experience is that game designers have very little respect for QA because there is a perception that QA is full of, for lack of a better word, "spergy" fan boy/fan girl types who will put gameplay suggestions into bug reports unasked then complain when the devs ignore them. emoticon fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Mar 30, 2013 |
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Mar 30, 2013 19:47
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That Gobbo posted:Anyone with modeling experience in the industry, which modeling program is more commonly used: 3DS Max or Maya? From what I've heard it's split with a little more working in Maya, been working a bit in 3DS Max and was curious about whether I should switch and focus on Maya. Being able to work in either of them for free thanks to the Autodesk Student stuff has been awesome.
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