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That sounds like SWTOR and the videos make it look the same as SWTOR's combat as well.
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Mar 28, 2013 21:07
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Tide posted:I don't think I've ever watched MMO combat and thought it looked fun. Tera had pretty fun combat and it even looks good in videos.
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Mar 28, 2013 21:36
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Tera has really good combat. GW2 has pretty good combat. Everything else has bad combat and should feel bad.
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Mar 28, 2013 22:12
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NWN's combat also seems pretty good from what I've seen in beta, it's very Tera-like. I will probably try this for some of the features that seem fresh, like housing, but a lot of the other parts of it look like WoW. Even the art design looks very much cribbed from it.
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Mar 28, 2013 22:15
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Probad posted:Tera has really good combat. GW2 has pretty good combat. Everything else has bad combat and should feel bad. Everyone forgets DCUO, one of the better MMO brawlers out there. Also had fantastic travel powers. Have they said anything on how you'll get around in Wildstar? Fast travel waypoints? Flightpaths? Mounts?
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Mar 28, 2013 22:25
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SheepNameKiller posted:NWN's combat also seems pretty good from what I've seen in beta, it's very Tera-like. Eh, I dunno if I agree on the art thing, aside from "They're both cartoony." I definitely wouldn't say they cribbed anything from WoW. I get more of a Disney/Pixar/DreamWorks 3D vibe from WildStar, especially from the cutscenes. Gotta say, I'm liking that!
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Mar 28, 2013 22:44
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I feel like the paths are really going to give this game a good solid core of players no matter what the subscription model turns out to be. Not only do you have the different classes and races to chose for your play through, they're also giving you different sets of quests/adventures/whatever. I know I'm gonna be leveling at least 4 characters with this in mind.
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Mar 29, 2013 18:03
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While I know that Goons already have an opinion about this (a different one than I do), I can only hope that it turns out to be a subscription model. Sure, buy2play makes it easy to jump in but it also makes it easy to jump out again at the first sign of anything that isn't exactly to your liking. If you already payed for that month maybe you would stick around and forget about some minor gripes. Or maybe I'm just tired of cashshop milking and just want to see everyone on even grounds for once, hell I don't know.
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Mar 29, 2013 19:14
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Syrek posted:While I know that Goons already have an opinion about this (a different one than I do), I can only hope that it turns out to be a subscription model. I am not sure, having the sub model I feel also keeps people away from coming back after a bad first month (since usually the first 30 days are free with a box purchase). Since you would have to throw down $ to be able to try it again. Sure one can read forums and talk to friends but it comes down to getting in there to play. F2P or even B2P can work well as long as the cash shop doesn't become a way for people to get an advantage over people who don't play. I think TSW had a good model for this where the cash shop was mostly for cosmetic items that had no real impact on game play.
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Mar 29, 2013 19:30
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If we're talking what we'd ideally like to see as a payment model, I think my ideal one would be: - Buy2Play (ala GW2), 30$ pricetag. Big content expansion packs are cool too. - Free trial available, play for 10 hours for free. You can, from inside the game itself, choose to buy it if you are enjoying it. - A robust Item shop that sells only cosmetic and convenience based items. I don't think a pure subscription based model really works anymore. I know personally, that would be the #1 easiest way to get me to not play an MMO. Gwyrgyn Blood fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Mar 29, 2013 |
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Mar 29, 2013 20:22
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The bad thing about a sub model to me, is, people aren't very likely to come back to see if the game has gotten better. So if Wildstar has half its population or more quit after the first month like most MMOs do, those people probably won't want to subscribe 6 months down the line "just to see how it is now." If they can hop back in to a free account after the game has fixed and added some things, then that's good for the population. I don't mind free and premium accounts though, as long as the free accounts get access to all the content and aren't limited on character slots, bank slots, bag slots, and money accrual like some games do.
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Mar 29, 2013 20:33
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Gwyrgyn Blood posted:I don't think a pure subscription based model really works anymore. I can only speak for myself obviously but I played pretty much every larger MMO in recent years and after I made up my opinion on a game I can't think of a single occasion where I came back to it after an extended period of time and changed my mind. Maybe that's different for you guys.
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Mar 29, 2013 20:40
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Please spend 50mil developing a rich game that gives me everything I want for free. Some other guy can buy a hat or something, that will pay for it.
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Mar 29, 2013 20:46
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Yes, pretty much. Maybe I'm totally off on this but to me it seems like constant and somewhat predictable revenue can ensure constant quality far better than relying on cash shop purchases. I was shocked by the vast difference in content quality that GW2 delivered compared to what happened after launch.
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Mar 29, 2013 20:55
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Syrek posted:The largest (fairly) stable playerbase in gaming history seems to disagree. [EDIT: Although thats not a PURE subscription model anymore either, they just slapped a cash shop on top of it.] WoW is a hugely popular, well established game that got its start back when subscription models were still a thing that could work. New games entering the genre don't have the luxury today, things are a lot different for a game like Wildstar. I guess what I should have said was, "I don't think a pure subscription model will work for new startup games like this anymore." Syrek posted:Yes, pretty much. Maybe I'm totally off on this but to me it seems like constant and somewhat predictable revenue can ensure constant quality far better than relying on cash shop purchases. I don't think that's related to the lack of a subscription model, seeing as the GW2 development team is roughly as big now as it was during development. I think the problem there is probably some combination of gross mismanagement, having a very bad vision of what their game is and should be, and other general incompetence.
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Mar 29, 2013 21:06
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Gwyrgyn Blood posted:I don't think that's related to the lack of a subscription model, seeing as the GW2 development team is roughly as big now as it was during development. I think the problem there is probably some combination of gross mismanagement, having a very bad vision of what their game is and should be, and other general incompetence. Or it's because GW2 wasn't ever that great and they just had a fantastic initial rush because of the hype, and when people got over that they realized there were a lot of problems with the game. Maybe that's just me, though. I wouldn't mind a sub model if they just keep pushing out the content. That's basically all you have to do to keep a sub model viable. It's how rift is still making money, and it *was* how WoW was making money until they fell into their current rut after they found out they didn't actually have to put out any decent content, and only some of it once a year or so, in order to keep printing money because everyone still playing wow is just so heavily invested in the game it's hard for them to break away for something else. It'd be nice if they played around with a sub model of less than 5 a month, though. If you make it 8 a month it's not so much that the sub is $7 cheaper, it's that it's nearly half the price a month, and nearly half as hard to justify to your average mmo player.
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Mar 29, 2013 22:12
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Sub models aren't totally impossible to run these days. But current research on online games indicates that they often cap a player's spending needlessly and that players, on average, spend more money in cash stores than they do on subscriptions.
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Mar 29, 2013 22:16
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At some point, I'm surprised somebody hasn't thrown together a subscription game whose monthly cost is right around that impulse buy threshold that F2P/B2P games milk relentlessly. I've always had the impression something like $5 a month with a really robust cosmetic store and maybe some convenience items would go like gangbusters.
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Mar 29, 2013 22:52
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Or you do what LOTRO did, since it's one of the more successful F2P games out there, and make the sub optional but a really good deal, with lots of other cosmetic stuff besides too. The real issue with subscriptions is that you need a stable base of lots of people to populate your game. You're selling an mmo experience to people, and part of that is dependent upon other players in your game. Those people who play for free and don't buy anything in your cash shop are still providing a very real thing for you in playing the game with other people who do give you money, and suddenly they go away if all of them are forced to pay to play. It's not just kids that can't pay, it's also people who don't want to pay a sub for whatever reason. You want as many people playing your game as possible because there's no case I can think of that makes too many players a liability, unless you just don't have the servers handle them (which is pretty much never going to happen over an extended period of time). A lot of the people I know who play rift play it because they didn't necessarily mind paying the sub for WoW, but they felt that rift was just the superior game. That means that in order to go toe-to-toe with WoW you have to pull away that population of people who don't mind paying for the game as long as your game is significantly better than WoW. That's really hard to do, but I can still reasonably hold some hope that Wildstar can do it. It looks really promising so far.
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Mar 29, 2013 23:12
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Some gaming journalism people got a 1 on 1 session with the devs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGzPY2r9yMQ e: also per http://www.penny-arcade.com/report/article/wildstar-is-an-mmorpg-built-on-pixar-like-bunnygirls-magic-pistols-and-home the beta starts "Really really really really really soon." Gettin' excited since I signed up really early on. Tupper fucked around with this message at 00:46 on Mar 30, 2013 |
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Mar 30, 2013 00:37
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Tupper posted:Some gaming journalism people got a 1 on 1 session with the devs. Wow, everything they mentioned in the dev video about player housing seems to be right on the money. I can't tell how it'll workout in the long run, but it's making me more and more impatient for this game with every update I see.
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Mar 30, 2013 19:23
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That PA article is a great run-down, thanks for linking it here.
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Mar 30, 2013 19:46
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The combat still worries me a bit for some of the reasons people mentioned in the thread so far. It looks a little boring and their reliance on the telegraph mechanic for literally EVERYTHING might either be a boon or a bane. Not sure yet, gotta see it. Also I don't think the build they've been showing off has the combat totally fleshed out. They keep using that lizard dude with claws instead of some of the potentially more interesting classes and weapons.
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Mar 30, 2013 20:09
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Here's a nice video with lots of info, especially the quality of life stuff is neat. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvDFZckAPvE
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Mar 30, 2013 20:31
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Tupper posted:The combat still worries me a bit for some of the reasons people mentioned in the thread so far. It looks a little boring and their reliance on the telegraph mechanic for literally EVERYTHING might either be a boon or a bane. Not sure yet, gotta see it. I don't like the telegraphing thing for every hit, but there are a lot worse things I could have to complain about. I think the thing that's really killing it for me right now is how insanely slow it all looks. Big telegraphed attacks take forever to come out, enemies have too much life, etc. Hopefully that's just beta stuff that needs working out, balance is something that tends to change a lot between beta and release.
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Mar 30, 2013 21:01
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It's all from newbie zones, right? You gotta make newbie zones completely idiot-proof, otherwise a lot of casual players can get frustrated and leave before becoming hooked on the game.
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Mar 30, 2013 21:25
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Yeah that's certainly true. But it looked like even in the newbie area things were taking a while to kill, and typically in these games things tend to get bigger lifebars as you go on. That's mainly what's bugging me right now. Honestly I'm just nitpicking at it because everything else looks really drat good. It looks like it has a lot of the stuff that I really liked from GW2, plus a whole bunch more. I'm guessing nobody has mentioned this yet, but does the game have the same kind of mob tagging as GW2? As in, everyone who helps kill an enemy gets credit for it, instead of just the person who tagged it.
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Mar 30, 2013 21:38
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Gwyrgyn Blood posted:Yeah that's certainly true. But it looked like even in the newbie area things were taking a while to kill, and typically in these games things tend to get bigger lifebars as you go on. That's mainly what's bugging me right now. Apparently during the show you and your group were the only ones that got credit, so if you tabbed a mob and someone else killed it then you'd get the credit. However, it is actually apparently going to be more like GW2, but it wasn't in their demo.
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Mar 30, 2013 21:57
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I'm mildly hopeful because between PAX, I want to say '11 and '12, they went from static WoW combat to functional if not incredible telegraph action combat. As mentioned, newbie zone combat is boring as hell, so I'm hoping that something like high-end PvP or raids will be ALL THE poo poo DODGE YOU FOOL OH GOD NO every couple of cycles. I think they'd be crazy not to, well, make it crazy in raids at least. Might even get me raiding again. (No it won't.)
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Mar 30, 2013 23:32
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Hopefully everything having all kinds of DON'T STEP IN MY poo poo warnings covering the ground and being so slow was for the benefit of just showing how the mechanic works. I won't speak for anyone else, but scrambling out of circular zones of crackly crap got really old for me, really quick.
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Mar 31, 2013 00:05
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Bieeardo posted:Hopefully everything having all kinds of DON'T STEP IN MY poo poo warnings covering the ground and being so slow was for the benefit of just showing how the mechanic works. I won't speak for anyone else, but scrambling out of circular zones of crackly crap got really old for me, really quick. It'd be nice if it was a toggleable option, so you can treat them like training wheels. It's not really a deal-breaker or anything, but it'd be sort of cool. I'm already basically caught hook, line and sinker for this anyway.
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Mar 31, 2013 01:01
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It appears to just be larger attacks that give the indicator. You can see some small/fast attacks that don't have any. And yeah I agree, just having to watch for the red circle just seems kinda boring/lazy to me. Watching monster tells and such is a lot more fun.
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Mar 31, 2013 01:24
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It would be nicer if the telegraph system wasn't just on the ground, a volumetric box of the attack would be better.
Lemon King fucked around with this message at 02:53 on Mar 31, 2013 |
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Mar 31, 2013 02:44
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Orv posted:I'm mildly hopeful because between PAX, I want to say '11 and '12, they went from static WoW combat to functional if not incredible telegraph action combat. As mentioned, newbie zone combat is boring as hell, so I'm hoping that something like high-end PvP or raids will be ALL THE poo poo DODGE YOU FOOL OH GOD NO every couple of cycles. I think they'd be crazy not to, well, make it crazy in raids at least. Might even get me raiding again. The Secret World's dungeons/raid have loads of telegraphed actions, active dodging, and generally movement-heavy combat, so I'm excited if that's also the case for Wildstar's endgame. Combat like that gets kinda hypnotic.
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Mar 31, 2013 03:14
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Gwyrgyn Blood posted:And yeah I agree, just having to watch for the red circle just seems kinda boring/lazy to me. Watching monster tells and such is a lot more fun. This only really works if 1) the massed graphic effects of multiple players hitting a monster doesn't completely obscure any subtlety to their animations, and 2) there is nothing in the game environment or UI that forces the player's primary attention to the edges of the screen. Every MMO in existence has failed at one or the other, most of them failing both. Even GW2 failed this, which is surprising considering that they specifically said prior to release that they wanted to avoid this problem. The telegraph system seems fine. Making the poo poo on the ground subtle doesn't necessarily make a mechanic more difficult, it just makes it more annoying and feel cheaper. Considering that "move out of the fire" is a concept that's rarely addressed in MMOs beyond max-level group content, it's refreshing to see it integrated into the most basic Kill Ten Rats newbie quests. I can only hope that the difficulty curve will gradually rise to the point where dealing with the telegraphs requires some forethought and decision making in addition to straight reaction time.
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Mar 31, 2013 03:19
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Magitek posted:This only really works if 1) the massed graphic effects of multiple players hitting a monster doesn't completely obscure any subtlety to their animations, and 2) there is nothing in the game environment or UI that forces the player's primary attention to the edges of the screen. Every MMO in existence has failed at one or the other, most of them failing both. Even GW2 failed this, which is surprising considering that they specifically said prior to release that they wanted to avoid this problem. The reason why GW2s tells suck is because the game really wasn't designed with it in mind. The mobs are usually small, the window between the attack and the tell is really small, the threat system is a huge mess, they wanted players to go into a down state. Contrast to TERA. The mobs that require you to dodge or guard consistently are huge, the time between the tell and the attack is generous (as long as the mob isnt enraged), the threat system is consistent, although having someone downed isn't an automatic wipe the designers never intended you to actually spend a considerable time on your rear end.
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Mar 31, 2013 03:50
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Yeah, I'm not really concerned as long as the system is basically for bigger critters, bosses and the like. It'd help make them something other than extra-big sacks of angry hit points. If every last trash mob does it, on the other hand, that's going to get grating.
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Mar 31, 2013 04:05
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The tell system looks good to me. Reminds me a lot of TSW were all skills also have tells like that. It worked great in that game. (It was far more traditional combat wise with tab targeting and mostly single target skills too)
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Mar 31, 2013 05:11
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Cheston posted:The Secret World's dungeons/raid have loads of telegraphed actions, active dodging, and generally movement-heavy combat, so I'm excited if that's also the case for Wildstar's endgame. Combat like that gets kinda hypnotic. TSW had the best dungeons I have ever played. Few trash mobs and really intersting boss fights. Hopefully, Wildstar can pull off something like that.
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Mar 31, 2013 16:50
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There's a good chance of that, since one of the devs mentioned TSW and how it should have been more successful because it's a great game during their panel at PAX.
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Mar 31, 2013 19:55
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