|
Otaking is a weird guy, but he has some interesting videos. He did a Star Wars anime thing you might've seen, but his anime fansub videos are a fun dissection of the medium. I'm just gonna leave this here because I like it so much. 
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2013 23:49
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 01:59 |
|
|
Lurdiak posted:Man I could have sworn Arino played Magical Quest already. Did I have some sort of GCCX dream that I took as canon? I can assure you that Arino has never played Magical Quest before. That video was interesting but he does contradict himself with regard to translating onscreen text. If the text is onscreen then it was intended to be read by the original viewer and if was intended to be read by the original viewer than translating it is part of making a seamless experience. And if you're attempting to make a seamless experience then integrating the translated text into the visual is a reasonable approach, especially if you're trying to avoid cluttering the screen too much. I've seen a dozen different approaches to translating onscreen text in professional translations and it seems to me that there's no "best approach" to use. Obviously, I think the direction we take with GCCX is the right way to go for the show; there's a lot of text that's important both for viewer comprehension and for getting the context of the game. For a movie where there's one or two signs that are used for establishing a scene then another approach is appropriate.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2013 00:08
|
|
|
univbee posted:(which isn't helped by the fact that "chichi" can mean "dad" and "breasts"). Bless that line they made Fujiwara say a thousand times in the 24 Hour Tag game.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2013 00:18
|
|
|
Random Stranger posted:That video was interesting but he does contradict himself with regard to translating onscreen text. If the text is onscreen then it was intended to be read by the original viewer and if was intended to be read by the original viewer than translating it is part of making a seamless experience. And if you're attempting to make a seamless experience then integrating the translated text into the visual is a reasonable approach, especially if you're trying to avoid cluttering the screen too much. He's been called out on that about a million times, and has replied that what he meant was that he was opposed to the integration of text translation in the video that makes it look like part of the actual art (and the use of embarrassingly bad-looking effects, like that example with the passport), not that he was opposed to the translation of onscreen text. It's very badly worded in the video, but that's what he intended to say. Important onscreen text you were meant to read should be translated, but as unobstructive and easily readable subtitles, not by drawing all over the original art. I can kinda see his point when it comes to some of the examples shown, but for the most part I don't think it's anywhere near as much of an issue as he claims.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2013 01:36
|
|
|
I finally bought my GCCX DVD and am ripping it for personal use as we speak. The translation is excellent of course, but drat do DVDs have the worst subtitle protocol. Who decided to make it image based instead of text based?
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2013 02:12
|
|
|
mato posted:Holy moly, I'm gonna have to sit down and watch this whole thing. I think it'd be hilarious to see LOTR in that format though, just once. It also reminds me of sort of the opposite too, when Japanese fans ragged on the lady who did the subtitles for the official LOTR translations in Japan. I've seen Japanese fansubs of South Park episodes that haven't been dubbed into the language yet. They're pretty faithful to the original English, and use whatever adaptation choices the official Japanese dub uses for certain catchphrases. When it comes to on-screen text in anime that's something like signs, school chalkboards, books, papers, etc., I ask myself: does the viewer need to know what it says to enjoy or understand what's going on? If they don't, I leave it. Especially if there's no unobtrusive way to deal with it otherwise.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2013 03:12
|
|
|
Gyre posted:I finally bought my GCCX DVD and am ripping it for personal use as we speak. The translation is excellent of course, but drat do DVDs have the worst subtitle protocol. Who decided to make it image based instead of text based? They never changed this for Blu-ray either, and I suspect it's a really weird legal thing where they want to mitigate the risk of a proper text leak. Weird as hell, I know, but I think it stems from closed captioning being historically very expensive for what it is (and why most TV shows have someone else pay for it in exchange for ad time). What's also fun is that most DVD and Blu-ray subtitle fonts have identical uppercase i's and lowercase l's, which happens so often I'm convinced it was planned that way intentionally to make OCRing the subtitles more difficult. The whole thing be a coincidence, though, since text-based subs would have to be cleanly converted into a transparent image and early DVD players were hard-pressed for processing power. Remember when DVD started, it wasn't even possible as a consumer to buy a fast enough PC to decode it in software, all PC-based solutions required an MPEG decoder card until a few years after DVD was a thing.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2013 03:23
|
|
|
How Ingratiating! posted:When it comes to on-screen text in anime that's something like signs, school chalkboards, books, papers, etc., I ask myself: does the viewer need to know what it says to enjoy or understand what's going on? If they don't, I leave it. Especially if there's no unobtrusive way to deal with it otherwise. My opinion: While this isn't a necessity (especially on DVD/Blu-ray subs where the text would be obtrusive) for fansubs it should be translated. It's a sign. Text. The intended audience can read this sign. It should be translated, so the foreign viewer can also read it, whether or not it's really important to the scene. The GCCX subs are good about this, since basically any text that isn't read aloud is subbed.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2013 04:33
|
|
|
Keyboard Kid posted:My opinion: While this isn't a necessity (especially on DVD/Blu-ray subs where the text would be obtrusive) for fansubs it should be translated. It's a sign. Text. The intended audience can read this sign. It should be translated, so the foreign viewer can also read it, whether or not it's really important to the scene. The GCCX subs are good about this, since basically any text that isn't read aloud is subbed. So if there is an establishing shot of a Tokyo street then every advertisement and sign should be translated? Really?
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2013 04:42
|
|
|
I actually have a translation question: in Bonanza Bros. zari-gani translated what I would call a "trap door" as a "pitfall". Do they call it specifically call it that in Japanese or is this a regional difference in English I didn't know about? Also my 2 cents on the sign-translation thing: It's nice if you can translate most of them without it looking weird, but in order of priority it should usually go necessary > useful > background jokes > random signs. In some works you really need to include the background jokes, like in Sayonara, Zetsubou-sensei because there are so many background jokes that they're part of really experiencing like a native-speaker would.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2013 06:13
|
|
|
Pitfall is one of those weird gaming terms like options (meaning powerups). In the NES Castlevania games there are blocks that you can fall through that look solid and people called those pitfalls so the term itself is quite old.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2013 06:20
|
|
|
I'm pretty sure it comes from the game Pitfall!
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2013 06:47
|
|
|
I honestly had never heard of powerups called options until I started reading this forum. I was really confused for a while whenever I heard someone refer to them as options.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2013 06:50
|
|
|
Options are specifically satellite spaceship power-ups in vertical / horizontal shooting games. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2013 06:56
|
|
|
^ exactlyPureRok posted:I honestly had never heard of powerups called options until I started reading this forum. I was really confused for a while whenever I heard someone refer to them as options. Yeah, I'm not 100% on Options. To me, it's one of those language matryoshka dealies: in Gradius, Options are Power-Ups, but Speed Up and Missiles and Lasers aren't Options. Fur20 fucked around with this message at 07:04 on Apr 5, 2013 |
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2013 07:00
|
|
|
gamingCaffeinator posted:I'd love to get the stationery if you're still up for making friends. My code is 2938 5933 9261! Sent, sorry, was busy much of today. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2013 07:23
|
|
|
Heatwizard posted:Can I get on the swapnote train while it's still going? 1719-3181-6997 Sent! Adamant posted:Hey, if you're still giving out swapnotes, my code is 1633-4415-2668. Add me back dude, 0748 2017 5632
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2013 07:31
|
|
|
Mister Chief posted:So if there is an establishing shot of a Tokyo street then every advertisement and sign should be translated? Really? Come on dude, you know what I'm talking about. In the general case of signs (not a big scenic area with tons of them), yes they should. I don't see any problem with it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2013 08:00
|
|
|
You were disagreeing with someone who made a perfectly sensible comment that only the essential text should be translated so no, I don't know what you're talking about.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2013 08:09
|
|
|
PopeCrunch posted:Add me back dude, 0748 2017 5632 Added (and sent over a letter with a Japan-exclusive stationary, in case you didn't have it)
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2013 08:12
|
|
|
Mister Chief posted:You were disagreeing with someone who made a perfectly sensible comment that only the essential text should be translated so no, I don't know what you're talking about. Something like writing on a chalkboard could be unnecessary to understanding a scene, but in some way add to the experience if it provided some kind of background information or small jokes that the intended audience was meant to notice. Sometimes having access to that information can cause a better appreciation for the work. I think that's what he's arguing in favor of, not signs that even the original audience would pay absolutely no attention to.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2013 08:44
|
|
|
I never said I disagreed with that but his attitude seemed to be that you should translate something that appeared on a chalkboard even if it as mundane as 'read chapter 3 for homework'. For example, say there is an establishing shot of a building that has a sign on the front gate and a street sign on the corner. In that case I would want the sign on the building to be translated to let me know where the scene is taking place but the street sign would be extraneous information.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2013 08:59
|
|
|
SpaceGodzilla posted:I'm pretty sure it comes from the game Pitfall! No, "pitfall" is an English word that the game title comes from.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2013 12:35
|
|
|
univbee posted:(which isn't helped by the fact that "chichi" can mean "dad" and "breasts"). Crotch Bat posted:Bless that line they made Fujiwara say a thousand times in the 24 Hour Tag game. This is getting a bit off-topic, but also explains a thing. I think Fujiwara's phrase was translated as "Gather around these man-boobs!" in the subs, and it always struck me as a bit off-beat. Gaki no Tsukai doesn't usually go for anything that blunt. Outside the physical comedy anyway. It's cool to know there's some sort of word play behind all that. (I'm not implying that there's a problem with the subs, I certainly can't come up with anything better.)
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2013 13:51
|
|
|
Nickoten posted:Something like writing on a chalkboard could be unnecessary to understanding a scene, but in some way add to the experience if it provided some kind of background information or small jokes that the intended audience was meant to notice. Sometimes having access to that information can cause a better appreciation for the work. I think that's what he's arguing in favor of, not signs that even the original audience would pay absolutely no attention to. Not to mention a number of anime from a few years back where constantly-changing text on blackboards, usually just throwaway cultural references or other stupid gags, was actually a feature. (Zetsubou-sensei, Pani Poni Dash, etc.)
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2013 14:08
|
|
|
StoryTime posted:This is getting a bit off-topic, but also explains a thing. I think Fujiwara's phrase was translated as "Gather around these man-boobs!" in the subs, and it always struck me as a bit off-beat. Gaki no Tsukai doesn't usually go for anything that blunt. Outside the physical comedy anyway. It's cool to know there's some sort of word play behind all that. The 24 Hour Tag game was an amazing Batsu and I'm going to make a cup of tea and watch that bad boy right now. While unrelated to GCCX, the translation effort for the 2012-2013 Batsu has reached part 7 (3:30 hours of a 6 hour show) finished, so that's coming along nicely too!
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2013 14:09
|
|
|
NBHS posted:Not to mention a number of anime from a few years back where constantly-changing text on blackboards, usually just throwaway cultural references or other stupid gags, was actually a feature. (Zetsubou-sensei, Pani Poni Dash, etc.) Those were all gags Japanese viewers would have to pause a recording of the episode to catch anyway. The correct way to handle stuff like that would be liner notes on a website or included document, so those who care can look them up without tons and tons of impossible-to-read subtitles getting in the way while you watch the actual episode.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2013 14:37
|
|
|
Adamant posted:Those were all gags Japanese viewers would have to pause a recording of the episode to catch anyway. The correct way to handle stuff like that would be liner notes on a website or included document, so those who care can look them up without tons and tons of impossible-to-read subtitles getting in the way while you watch the actual episode. My personal opinion on this is that if it was in the original and intended to be read, it should be translated in the episode. "...tons and tons of impossible-to-read subtitles getting in the way..." For one, if there's "tons and tons" of Japanese writing on a chalkboard you can't read it's essentially the same thing. And good subtitles wouldn't be "impossible to read" and wouldn't "get in the way". They're there if you care to read them, but you can also ignore them.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2013 14:51
|
|
|
StoryTime posted:This is getting a bit off-topic, but also explains a thing. I think Fujiwara's phrase was translated as "Gather around these man-boobs!" in the subs, and it always struck me as a bit off-beat. Gaki no Tsukai doesn't usually go for anything that blunt. Outside the physical comedy anyway. It's cool to know there's some sort of word play behind all that. There's no wordplay involved in that particular line. What he's really saying is chichi, yosemasse (乳、寄せまっせー), which means "[I'm] squeezing [my] breasts together." (I'm guessing the translator knew the words "breasts" and "come together" but didn't know they were supposed to relate to each other.) He's dressed like an ouendan male cheerleader, to go with the school gym theme, and he delivers the line in the way a cheerleader would. It's meant to be a bizarre cheer.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2013 16:27
|
|
|
The only "correct" way to handle on-screen text is to be Disney and plan internationalizing your films in advance so that everything text-sensitive is either replaced with pictograms (e.g. Monsters Inc. replaced the "contamination alert" on the power plant's alarm screens with a nuclear symbol whose central circle is a caricature of a child, Wreck-It Ralph's "Out of order" signs have the text removed so there's only the little cartoon of the sad arcade cabinet with a thermometer etc.) or flat-out redone in the same style for all intended language releases (as in an entirely new video track).  Of course, the day that this happens with anything that isn't a recent Studio Ghibli release (they did it with the "you forgot something" note in Arrietty) will be a cold day in hell, indeed.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2013 16:45
|
|
|
zari-gani posted:There's no wordplay involved in that particular line. What he's really saying is chichi, yosemasse (乳、寄せまっせー), which means "[I'm] squeezing [my] breasts together." (I'm guessing the translator knew the words "breasts" and "come together" but didn't know they were supposed to relate to each other.) He's dressed like an ouendan male cheerleader, to go with the school gym theme, and he delivers the line in the way a cheerleader would. It's meant to be a bizarre cheer. This makes more sense. I've always kinda been iffy on the quality of the earliest batsu subs because it really took some years for the community to really form and put together solid efforts towards proper translations. And yea, anyways, they'd absolutely be that blunt when it concerns Fujiwara. Matsumoto goes out of his way every year to crack jokes st his appearance and he's put into ridiculous outfits every year.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2013 16:52
|
|
|
Random Stranger posted:No, "pitfall" is an English word that the game title comes from. Well yes, option is also an English word. I think he just means the association with any sort of falling trap in a game with the word pitfall might come from the game Pitfall!TM. There are a whole slew of english words that could be used in it's place, but I'm not so sure myself. I'd say pit is just the most commonly used in general for any big hole you can fall into. I've never heard of Powerups being called Options myself, and it seems pretty strange. Then again I was never into shumps so that probably explains it. Also while we're talking game-terms goddamn do I hate the word Toon in reference to your player character. It's Avatar drat it and it always will be  Mister Chief posted:I never said I disagreed with that but his attitude seemed to be that you should translate something that appeared on a chalkboard even if it as mundane as 'read chapter 3 for homework'. For example, say there is an establishing shot of a building that has a sign on the front gate and a street sign on the corner. In that case I would want the sign on the building to be translated to let me know where the scene is taking place but the street sign would be extraneous information. Yeah, I'd agree with this. Sure, it would be nice to have everything in english, but unless you're willing to go in and edit the actual frames themselves then most of the time there's not really any way to not have it get in the way. Even something as minor as a skewed perspective on a sign is enough to make the translation stand out through subtitles, and I'd say most of the time it's not worth the effort.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2013 17:05
|
|
|
While we're all boarding the swapnote train, I'd like to hop on it. 1435-4134-4951
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2013 18:31
|
|
|
univbee posted:The only "correct" way to handle on-screen text is to be Disney and plan internationalizing your films in advance so that everything text-sensitive is either replaced with pictograms (e.g. Monsters Inc. replaced the "contamination alert" on the power plant's alarm screens with a nuclear symbol whose central circle is a caricature of a child, Wreck-It Ralph's "Out of order" signs have the text removed so there's only the little cartoon of the sad arcade cabinet with a thermometer etc.) or flat-out redone in the same style for all intended language releases (as in an entirely new video track). It's okay Q*Bert, I haven't forgotten you. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2013 20:01
|
|
|
TemporalParadox posted:Well yes, option is also an English word. I think he just means the association with any sort of falling trap in a game with the word pitfall might come from the game Pitfall!TM. There are a whole slew of english words that could be used in it's place, but I'm not so sure myself. I'd say pit is just the most commonly used in general for any big hole you can fall into. Yes, this is exactly what I meant. I think that's likely the case considering that it was an extremely popular game so early in the history of home videogames. SpaceGodzilla fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Apr 5, 2013 |
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2013 21:08
|
|
|
Sayonara Umihara Kawase got a trailer yesterday! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_I58QoqsE0 Id like to thank Arino for introducing me to these games, and would like to curse Nintendo for region locking the 3DS.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2013 22:46
|
|
|
Gutcruncher posted:Sayonara Umihara Kawase got a trailer yesterday! I'd like to think that thanks to Game Center CX making more people aware of the game's existence that we have a decent shot of this one getting localized. As long as I'm posting, you guys better block out a lot of time for watching GCCX this weekend...
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2013 22:51
|
|
|
woot woot! I'll be playing Luigi's Mansion while I wait
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2013 01:24
|
|
|
Krioni posted:woot woot! I'll be playing Luigi's Mansion while I wait And I MH3U.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2013 01:44
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 01:59 |
|
|
AzraelDarkheart posted:And I MH3U. Gesundheit.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2013 02:40
|
|