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Moose King's thief has a custom racial move to get add this poison to the list: "-Yellowbell Extract (Applied): The Target becomes easily frightened of even mundane happenings."
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Apr 6, 2013 23:14
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Zerilan posted:Has anyone come with any more poisons for the thief beyond the four in the book? Yeah, I had this as my Orc Thief racial: quote:In addition to any other poisons you may know, you always know the following poison: Seems like a Treatise on Variouſ Natural Substanceſ Both Beneficial and Nefariouſ is a thing that someone should write. Speaking of the Thief, this is all Drakkar's fault: quote:The City Thief I considered ditching all the poison moves, but I couldn't really think of what would replace them. e; edited this to tidy up wording. Removed grapple, since that should already be covered by the adventuring kit. Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 19:38 on Apr 7, 2013 |
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Apr 7, 2013 00:13
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Lemon Curdistan posted:I considered ditching all the poison moves, but I couldn't really think of what would replace them. Seems like a preparation-type move to keep you supplied with elemental arrows and flashbombs ("The Right Tool For The Job" or something) is a natural to go with them. Maybe one that lets you scrounge them together from materials on hand, since I recall that was part of the justification for having them available to find in-mission in the Thief games.
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Apr 7, 2013 00:22
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Benly posted:Seems like a preparation-type move to keep you supplied with elemental arrows and flashbombs ("The Right Tool For The Job" or something) is a natural to go with them. Maybe one that lets you scrounge them together from materials on hand, since I recall that was part of the justification for having them available to find in-mission in the Thief games. The Thief has Connections, which would cover resupplying yourself. Garrett isn't really the type to make his own gear; he just buys it or finds it lying around. Still: The Right Tool For The Right Job You have a lab back home that lets you build some of your own gear. When you spend a few hours' downtime in your lab, you gain up to three additional uses of flash bombs, moss arrows or water arrows at no cost.
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Apr 7, 2013 01:05
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Lemon Curdistan posted:The Thief has Connections, which would cover resupplying yourself. Garrett isn't really the type to make his own gear; he just buys it or finds it lying around. As I recall, the justification for "finding it lying around" inside a rich person's mansion was that the elemental crystals for the arrows form naturally in spots rich with the appropriate element, so there are fire crystals in braziers, water crystals at the bottom of wells, etc, and the player was just tying them to his normal arrows to make the elemental arrows. Anyhow, I was thinking more of the "allocate starting equipment" bit at the start of a mission. Something like: When you get ready to head out on a job, tell the GM and other players what kind of problems you expect on the job and two kinds of Thief's Gear that will directly address those problems and roll +int. On a 10+, hold 3-gear. On a 7-9, hold 2-gear. On a miss, hold 2-gear but you were dreadfully wrong about what to expect in some way. Spend 1-gear at any time to gain 1 use of either of the kinds of Thief's Gear you expected to need. When the job is complete, lose all held gear. Numbers may be off but I love hold that can be converted into having previously done/gotten what you need.
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Apr 7, 2013 01:19
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Since someone on the G+ page was asking for CC templates, I decided to upload the one I've been using, for the few CC's I have put together in the past: http://www.mediafire.com/?5uuzcoltiv8jnmf You'll need Inkscape to mess with it, but Inkscape is available for free, so there you go. Fonts used are Minion Pro and Copperplate Gothic Light.
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Apr 7, 2013 01:37
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Rulebook Heavily posted:I haven't been working on it lately but I renewed my work on Dungeon World Mounts. Today, I have written many mount tags. Imaginary: No one but you can see or touch this mount, even though it is very real to you. You can ride it as normal, appearing to others as if you were riding on air. It can come with you into places where a mount of its type and size normally could not. No one can attack it, but it also refuses to hurt or break anything. It still needs to eat, but fortunately it can subsist on imaginary food.
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Apr 7, 2013 02:36
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Ok so my player who likes Indiana Jones/Sherlock Holmes likes the Bard as a base, but the campaign is for a much more low magic/pulp campaign. Arcane Art is easy enough to swap out for a more 4e Warlord/Martial approach, but I'm looking to swap out "It Goes to Eleven" and "Metal Hurlant" with something more lore based or research-y, possibly even helping him delving into ruins and getting away with the treasure/knowledge. I don't want to crib any thief moves as he can multiclass into things like lock picking or trap finding, so I'm kind of at a loss for some interesting replacements.
Fenarisk fucked around with this message at 03:31 on Apr 7, 2013 |
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Apr 7, 2013 03:22
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If he wants to start out with or later pick up some other class's moves instead of bard moves and there's no one using that class in the group, I'd let him. No real reason to withhold it if it's his concept. If he likes the investigating and hunting down criminals parts of Sherlock Holmes maybe even put Hunt and Track from the Ranger on the table. Indiana Jones blended with Sherlock Holmes brings to mind Henry Jones, Sr. Maybe you two could change the trigger of Metal Hurlant and It Goes to Eleven to have more to do with suddenly remembering his Charlemagne or revealing someone's true allegiances because they "talk in their sleep." Something like, "When you unleash a potentially dangerous aspect of the environment at your foes" for Metal Hurlant, and "When you make a compelling argument why your foes cannot trust one another"
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Apr 7, 2013 04:29
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Lemon Curdistan posted:I just wanted to remind people how fantastic the following blog post is: http://rocketpropelledgame.blogspot.com.au/2012/06/marx-monsters-burning-city.html Dude, I'm glad you found it so useful, and that City sounds uber-cool. I really want to run a hardcore Iron Council-esque DW game of fantasy revolutionaries and hosed-up anarchists one of these days. I nearly did with my Daojin City game, but it ended up being zany adventures closer to Avatar: the Legend of Korra than it did anything Mieville would put his name on.
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Apr 7, 2013 09:01
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TheLoneAmigo posted:Dude, I'm glad you found it so useful, and that City sounds uber-cool. I really want to run a hardcore Iron Council-esque DW game of fantasy revolutionaries and hosed-up anarchists one of these days. I nearly did with my Daojin City game, but it ended up being zany adventures closer to Avatar: the Legend of Korra than it did anything Mieville would put his name on. Oh man, it was you! My only complaint with that article is that it needs more tables, because I think you managed to capture the whole New Crobuzon/the City vibe pitch-perfectly. Thanks for writing it. I read the Daojin City Blues posts on BFA and they were great, too. Did you use any other resources to help you design Daojin City (like Vornheim or something)? I'm hijacking my current game to make it into a city game.
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Apr 7, 2013 11:51
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Man, I love me some New Crobuzon! Keep writing that poo poo up! Gonna change gears here: I think the new shift by some, to move away from race moves and alignments in favor of backgrounds and motivations is great! Has anyone considered having advanced moves for backgrounds? They could be based on social class, geographic or other cultural backgrounds which would offer some moves independent of class. Maybe they could even run in parallel with class, meaning that, for example, you might have separate XP for class and background. You could be a 5th level thief/3rd level commoner, or a 4th level wizard/2nd level Coral Islander. You'd keep XP gained normally for the class and have other triggers, similar to alignment XP and end of session XP, for the background XP. Am I making sense?
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Apr 7, 2013 15:06
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Ich posted:Maybe they could even run in parallel with class, meaning that, for example, you might have separate XP for class and background. You could be a 5th level thief/3rd level commoner, or a 4th level wizard/2nd level Coral Islander. You'd keep XP gained normally for the class and have other triggers, similar to alignment XP and end of session XP, for the background XP. This would be a pretty terrible idea, because having to track XP separately is silly. I am (extremely slowly and I haven't touched it in a while) working on an urban setting book where the players have a specific role within the city in addition to their class, and get to pick a new move from the role every other level that they get in addition to their normal stuff. It's a bit clunky having it be every other level but I'm trying to make sure the players don't get too many extra moves. The various roles are: The Guardian, unsung holy protector of some dire relic The Magister, a person of note with merchant interests who uses bribery and bureaucracy to get their way The Hierophant, the leader or figurehead or some cult or religion, who has real access to their god The Eel, a master thief and champion of the poor The Oak, who brokers the uneasy peace between the City and the Wild The Watch, who commands the City Guard The Magus, the City's foremost authority on magic and the arcane The Cabal, a member of a far-reaching and shadowy conspiracy that rules the City in truth I've got stuff like this: quote:Sanctuary (Guardian starting move) And this: quote:Long Arm of the Law (Watch starting move) I should probably work on it some more. Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 16:08 on Apr 7, 2013 |
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Apr 7, 2013 15:51
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Absolutely love the Marx & Monsters pieces on the blog, awesome stuff! There wouldn't happen to be any more, beyond the two I found there?
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Apr 7, 2013 16:40
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Alright, finally finished up The Assassin, let me know what you think in terms of flavor/balance it'd be greatly appreciated as it's a class I've made tailored for a player in my group. http://www.mediafire.com/view/?rk4p28dsja86u3l Edit: Cleaning up the playbook file on the third pass and I might release the inkscape file for people. I cleaned up the Leader a lot, and if both are pretty well received maybe I'll try and get on this "sell some playbooks" train.
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Apr 7, 2013 17:22
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Fenarisk posted:Alright, finally finished up The Assassin, let me know what you think in terms of flavor/balance it'd be greatly appreciated as it's a class I've made tailored for a player in my group. One, the racial moves don't seem to do much. At least they don't have the usual mechanical bits racial moves have. Two, I Think He Means It is just Parley using threats of violence or blackmail as leverage and a slightly different 7-9 effect. Three, there was a whole discussion in the last thread about a move like Master of Disguise that the Mastermind got and how it's unsatisfying for a move to tell you to stop playing for a long period of time. Also, the Crossbow can only be used in melee and doesn't have ammo, so I can only assume you whack people with it. And the Rapier has a much smaller advantage than usual over the dagger and shortsword other than slightly lower weight because Assassins can roll +Dex for Hack And Slash anyway. Lurks With Wolves fucked around with this message at 17:48 on Apr 7, 2013 |
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Apr 7, 2013 17:43
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Fenarisk posted:Alright, finally finished up The Assassin, let me know what you think in terms of flavor/balance it'd be greatly appreciated as it's a class I've made tailored for a player in my group. On a cursory glance, getting to ask the DM a whopping 5 very specific and informative questions on a move without a roll attached to it seems too much. It also seems like going through that huge list of questions every time you research a target would bog down gameplay. Maybe make it like a discern realities check where on a 10+ you get to ask three questions, and on a 7-9 you get to ask one?
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Apr 7, 2013 17:44
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Lurks With Wolves posted:I personally like Master of Disguise because of the fact that there is a very, very similar power in Legends of Anglerre and my players usually only waited a turn or two to use it, and the upgraded version for 6-10 could make for crazy escapes or ambushes. I guess I'd have to see how others use it in play. Prowave Tierdash posted:Edit: Unblinking Eye When you take sufficient time to research a target, name the person you wish to learn about and roll +INT. On a 10+ ask the GM 3 questions, on a 7-9 ask 1. When acting on the answers you and your allies take +1 forward. *When are they vulnerable? *Who are their allies? *Who would pay to see them dead or disgraced? *What is the greatest obstacle I would have to overcome to reach them? *What secret do they harbor? Starting Gear Crossbow changed to: Crossbow (piercing 1, near, 1 weight) with 3 Bolts Dagger and Shortsword changed to: Dagger (hand, 1 weight) and Garrotte (hand, 0 weight, silencing) Rapier changed to: Short Sword (close, 1 weight) Fenarisk fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Apr 7, 2013 |
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Apr 7, 2013 18:21
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Yo Shamblercrow, one of my players today really wants to play the convict, is it cool if I make it into the playbook format and post it up here with credit to you?
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Apr 7, 2013 19:33
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Fenarisk posted:Yo Shamblercrow, one of my players today really wants to play the convict, is it cool if I make it into the playbook format and post it up here with credit to you? Yes, absolutely!
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Apr 7, 2013 19:58
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So now that I'm more familiar with DW and how it works, I want to try my hand at making some content - in particular, a class. For those of you who already have created DW content, are there any general tips you can give? Or should I just dive in the deep end and get feedback as I go on?
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Apr 7, 2013 20:53
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Be wary of straight up replacing a move like Hack and Slash with a better version.
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Apr 7, 2013 21:05
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Or any of the basic/special moves in general. Having them make you better at doing them is fine, but ultimately you should be using one of those or a very specific move like Black Magic that more carefully designed to stand in place of basic moves. Also, try to avoid boring +x or +xdx bonuses. The more moves that increase your ability to do cool things the better, where boring bonuses just make you more likely to succeed without consequence. Where's the fun in that?
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Apr 7, 2013 21:13
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Wahad posted:So now that I'm more familiar with DW and how it works, I want to try my hand at making some content - in particular, a class. For those of you who already have created DW content, are there any general tips you can give? Or should I just dive in the deep end and get feedback as I go on? Yes. Make compendium classes and post them for feedback here until you're making compendium classes that no one can find a flaw in, and then you'll be ready to make a base class.  More seriously: Always start from the fiction. You need a concept that:
Every move you write has to reinforce the class' theme. Don't write moves that don't plug in to the class' 2-3 thematic identities. Don't steal moves from other playbooks. If your class concept needs a move from another playbook to be fully realised, you either need to rethink your concept or you can just give your playbook multiclass moves. On that note, don't use Multiclass Dabbler/Initiate, they're pants. If you're going to have MC moves, do them in the same style as Friend of the Land, or use Worldly if that fits your concept. As mentioned, don't make moves that are just better versions of basic moves and replace them. If you want to make something that is similar to an existing basic move, make it a move that modifies how a basic move works instead. Don't build a class around a single starting move, with multiple advanced moves that improve it. Write your advanced moves so the class expands horizontally, not vertically (conceptually bigger, not mechanically more powerful). Don't fall into the trap of trying to straight copy over ideas from other systems, especially D&D. Dungeon World moves have their own tone and their own mechanics. Remember that fiction comes first, and that a move that gives a purely fictional bonus is much better than a move that gives a purely mechanical bonus. Keep in mind what other classes can do when writing your own: you don't want to make a class that is better at talking than the Bard, or better at fighting than the Fighter. Remember niche protection. Making a class that is better or as good as the above at both fighting and talking is even worse. Keep it simple - don't include hold mechanics where you don't need them, for example. If you write a move with options, don't go above four options to choose from (and three is ideal in most cases). Remember that each type of move (no roll, result, choice or hold) conveys a different tone (no roll means you can always do it, roll for result is for simple actions with same-beat resolution, choice is for complex actions with same-beat resolution, and hold is for moves where you power up and discharge that power in separate beats). On a similar level, know that "choose X bad things that don't happen" and "choose X good things that happen" are different, not just in terms of tone but in terms of the result too: in the former case, every option you didn't pick happens. Also: time units. DW doesn't have rounds; instead, it has "a few instants," "a moment," "a few moments," "a short time," "some time," "a while," etc. Finally, remember that you don't necessarily need to write a full class: if your class ends up being "like a Fighter, but X" there is nothing wrong with writing replacement moves to take one theme out of an existing class and replace it with another. I think that's about all I can think of for now. Making a base class is hard, so be prepared to end up with something significantly different from your first draft. e; just for a few examples about what I mean when I'm talking about 2-3 thematic identities making up one class: The Thief is a mixture of three things: the D&D rogue, with its backstab and trap disarming; the seasoned criminal, with Connections, Escape Route and Heist; and the poisoner. The Paladin covers both the holy knight of good archetype and the Judge Dredd/40k Inquisitor heretic-exterminating badass concept. The Druid is both someone who turns into an animal to fight, and someone who is in tune with nature and balance. My Shaman is in touch with the dead and the spirit world, but is also someone who knows curses and blood magic. Either one of these concepts on their own isn't really enough to make 30 moves out of, but coming up with 2-3 related concepts gives you enough fuel for a full class and also lets your players pick between two different types of Rogue or Paladin or Druid or Shaman. Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 22:19 on Apr 7, 2013 |
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Apr 7, 2013 22:02
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A big one I see a lot of people asking about is how many moves to give a class. Starting Moves: You want to give the class 4 or 5 things to do. Sometimes you do not need 4 or 5 moves to do this - you should have 3-5 moves. The starting moves heavily define how the class does things, so make sure they are flavorful and cool. At least one of them should relate to combat in some way, and at least one of them should relate to non-combat in some way, usually social or exploration things. Advances: You want about twenty advances as a cap, 19 or 18 is fine. Usually you'll go for an even split, 10-10, but if you have to imbalance it, imbalance it in favor of the 2-5 advances, because you can take additional 2-5 advances at levels 6-10. For Multiclass moves, you usually want between 1 and 3 of them, and most classes will have one 2-5 and one 6-10 advance move. New innovations in Multiclass technology favor two different approaches, over the previous Multiclass Dabbler and Specific Options method (such as "Gain a move from the Thief class list"). Worldly Gain a move from any playbook not being used by another player. Worldly is a very interesting move because it keeps niche protection intact, but does not limit the character in any way. Generalist characters like The Noble and The Survivor really like this multiclass move. Specialized Dabbler Gain a move from any playbook. Choose this move as if you were one level lower than you are, unless _____ Where the Unless is something like "it is a move from the Thief or Ranger" or "that move is magic-based". It gives you a slight boost for choosing moves that fit the niche your class fits in, but doesn't discourage any crazy creative idea you have in mind. I could probably write a megapost about class design from all the stuff I've made, but I will save that for after Inverse World is published, because I have done a ton of new things with that. gnome7 fucked around with this message at 22:36 on Apr 7, 2013 |
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Apr 7, 2013 22:25
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Just to build on what gnome is saying: Remember that a single move should be a single unit of rules, and should strive to be short and simple. You generally want:
e; stats! Thanks for reminding me, That Rough Beast. It's generally best to think of two stats that your class will use. Try not to mix stats in the starting moves, or if you do, do it as a balancing concern - MAD is a real thing. On the other hand, the fiction comes first, and it doesn't make huge amounts of sense to have, say, a move about suplexing oppnents rely on Wis just because you've got a Wis-based class. If that happens, either rethink the move's fiction so it makes sense, or change it to another move entirely. The second stat comes into play for advanced moves, and lets you offer players the ability to go for a different "build" than default. You only really want a few moves that rely on this second stat (maybe two per tier). As an example, the Shaman is a Cha primary class with an implied Con secondary (since it relies on HP to use some of its moves). Several of the Shaman's advanced moves are Wis-based, and those are the ones that don't cost HP - so if you wanted, you could be Cha/Wis instead. Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 09:06 on Apr 8, 2013 |
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Apr 7, 2013 22:58
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Lemon Curdistan posted:I just wanted to remind people how fantastic the following blog post is: http://rocketpropelledgame.blogspot.com.au/2012/06/marx-monsters-burning-city.html This randomization process and coming up with stories to back it is tremendously fun. To wit: (7, 11) The city of Theïatós stands holding off the world's end, but asks itself to contemplate the price of that prevention. The vast bulk of the walled fortress-city hangs on the very border of Hell itself, stretching like a cliff of turrets, trenches, and towers upon the edge of the great rift called the Abyssal Eye. Past the active warzone itself, and the final rings, lies the vast bulk of Theïatós -- towers, churches, arcane engines, the vast belching smoke of the Forge Halls which bring forth endless weapons for the war. Home to untold millions of natives, refugees, soldiers, and workers, the city Theïatós is the most important place in the known world -- not least because it prevents the destruction of that world every single day. But the vast city itself is supported by its Son and Daughter kingdoms. Outwards from the City reach tendrils of power and appointment into leagues and leagues of provinces. From the center, in the City, armies and money and arcane influence rule a vast empire, whose people are weeping under the demands of the City's divine mandate to protect the whole world from the Eye of the Abyss. (1, 18, 20) While most of the inhabitants of the City are humans, elves, and dwarves, there are also a great many others here. (18, 20) Perhaps the most important are those brought in by the Culling - all children born in the Empire deemed to have been touched by the powers of Hell and Heaven are brought to the City, so they can be trained - or, more often, simply watched over in vast ghettoes. Called by scholars and monks the Tiefling and the Aasimar, most people call them other names -- blueblood and redblood, Chosen and Cursed, and, most often, the Sparks and Embers. (1) Also unusual are the number of Orcs and Half-Orcs living in the city, descendants of the tribes who lived in the mountains -- and across the Empire -- but were brought in as mercenaries untold ages ago in the wars against the forces of the Abyss. Now they are a thronging mercenary class -- thugs, black market merchants, and more. (2, 8, 7) The ancient noble families who claim to have led the First Crusade, and the Merchant-Lords who provide their armies, weapons and enchantments, hold the visible reins of power and influence in the city -- theirs are the mansions, the estates, the great parties and circles of power. But under the surface, other brokers shake the politics and life of the city. (2 - Military Command) The most important are the Orders Militant. Once warriors of faith, monks and clerics, they are now vast bureaucratic military institutions with their own desires and resources -- and a deep desire to do more than merely defend the borders. It was their voice that convinced the City to conquer much of its vast Empire in the past thousand years. (8 - Corrupt religious hierarchy) Nearly equal in to the military lord's power are the Heavenly Choir. Though the City defends against the legions of Hell and the Abyss, it had long been tolerant of many faiths. However, over time, the high priests of a small number of gods attained greater wealth, power, and influence - and convinced themselves that they were the instruments of the Divine intended, above others, to fight the war against darkness. Which High Priests or sects are members of the Heavenly Choir changes over the centuries, but their slow ascent to power has not -- nor has their desire to enforce their vision of religious zeal and law on the City streets. (7 - Devilish cult) Finally, and most hidden of all, is the Armageddon Circle. Servants of the Lords of Abyss, the Armageddon Circle is dedicated to bringing down the City from within and subjecting the world to a reign of fire, horror, and the lash. They are quieter, more subtle, than any of the other power brokers, but they know that in subterfuge and infiltration they can accomplish a great deal. (8, 4, 6) Life in The City is defined by much more than merely its factions. The horrors of day-to-day life are everyday, pervasive, and the first and most prominent is Impressment. (8 - Conscription) The Impressors are constantly on the lookout for new recruits -- and the Orders Militant are constantly in need of new bodies to fight in the never-ending War. No one really calls it the Divine War, or the War Of The Eye, or any of its other scholarly names - it is just The War. Many parents have returned home from a hard day to find an Impressor's Notice nailed to their door, and a husband, wife, daughter or son lost to the Orders Militant. Few who go into the fight come back, and those who do come back with a little bit of Hell in them. The lucky few are posted out in the mortal realm to fight the City's wars of conquest or garrison its territories - but they, too, rarely return or return with strange foreign brides and customs. (4 - Mass sacrifice) The second is the Cull. While the Cull is referred to in the rest of the City's territory as the taking of 'touched' children, in the City, the other side of that terrible custom is much more important. In times of defeat, need, or political instability, anyone -- but especially the Ember and Spark populace -- become themselves the fuel for the great armories, industries and magickal weapons of the City. Finally, in its constant state of war, the security of the Orders Militant is strict and unceasing. (6 - Travel restriction) With the War always on, and many areas of the city devoted to turning out weapons, training troops, or conducting magical experiments - or keeping the Culls mysterious and sudden -- the City is subdivided into hundreds of separate Commands, which are in turn divided into Zones, and into Precincts and Posts. Manned by mercenaries, police, and sometimes by the real military, their patrols, crossing posts, and checkpoints make going too far from home - or being out after curfew - without a specific pass a hazardous task. (4, 2) But the City is not without its dissidents and edgy groups - life in wartime breeds discontent, and war without end doubly so (4)The magical and religious nature of both the War and the Cull have slowly bred a response among the clerics of many different religions, a response which has become known as the Reconciler movement. The Reconcilers believe that the reason the War has been unwinnable is because of the refusal of the City and its empire to fight using the true precepts of the holy texts, and its refusal to enlist the aid of the Embers and Sparks in the fight completely - instead treating them as second-class citizens. The Reconcilers are somewhat incoherent and disorganized, but their true strength is what the "true precepts" imply - relief for the toiling masses, an end to the Culls, education for all, and other things that make them popular with the masses. (2) The City has always had its radical elements. Orcish mercenary thugs, younger sons of the great lords, veterans of many campaigns who decide it's not worth their sanity to go into the Eye for one more campaign and live in the shadows, addicts and dealers of exotic substances imported from the provinces, and more. Rather than let them run riot, though, everyone besides the First Families sees these gangs as a tool more than a threat - and has manipulated their leaders and structure to make them just that. Their most dangerous sub-factions, though, are the gangs who call themselves the Living - dedicated to "living life" to the fullest by raping, fighting, and indulging wherever they are pointed. (7, 3) The intricate order of the City is maintained by its everyday soldiers and enforcers, with the Living reserved only for more under-the-table problems and power struggles. (7) The city is ancient, and virtually everyone in it is somehow tied to the maintenance of the War or the Empire and has been for generations -- and they all have pressure points. Whether it is threatening your son with Impressment, threatening your job and money, using religion and the War to shame you, or even the all-out violence of a Cull on your home Precinct, you can be turned. Many people prefer to skip the coercion and simply exist in a happy relationship with their local authorities, making every discussion and act of dissent a careful choice, shared with only a tiny few. (3) The advantage of an eternal war is that it yields innovation - and prisoners. The Orders Militant and the guards have found ways to bind the forces and creatures of the Abyss -- and of magic itself -- to do their bidding. It is not uncommon for dissidents and lawbreakers to find hellhounds, shadow-men, or worse on their tail after the forces of the City have exhausted more normal means. BrotherAdso fucked around with this message at 01:03 on Apr 8, 2013 |
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Apr 8, 2013 00:56
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Wahad posted:So now that I'm more familiar with DW and how it works, I want to try my hand at making some content - in particular, a class. For those of you who already have created DW content, are there any general tips you can give? Or should I just dive in the deep end and get feedback as I go on? There will be some repeat statements in here. The absolute most important thing going in is concept. You need an idea of the archetype you want to evoke, and it shouldn't be one that's already covered in the core material. That said, you'll need around 20 moves, as others have said, plus the alignment and racials. You'll probably want to pick one primary stat to key the moves from, as well as a secondary for the rest. At the most you can probably manage three important stats, with the players picking from alternate move options. Any more than this and you're probably wasting people's time. The Bard suffers from a bit of this, as it's obviously meant to use Cha and Dex and then you have something like Metal Hurlant which uses Con. Make sure that the moves do not trump the basic moves. Beware anything that people would always use over Defy Danger or Hack and Slash. If you have such a move, either make it apply more narrowly or have it enhance a basic move. Have clear, useful triggers so you and the players know how to make the moves happen. Favor simple language when possible. If it takes more than a medium sized sentence to explain your trigger, you probably need to simplify it. Moves that just give a +1 or +damage are boring if that's all they do. It's fine to use the mechanical carrot, I'm of the opinion that it doesn't hurt, but make sure that the triggers for the moves will produce interesting fiction. If a move gives a reward, be sure that its trigger is intended to solicit the behavior that you want from the playbook. Stuff like "You do +1d4 damage" with no qualifications is really boring. For example, there's a world of difference between "Take +1 to Parley" and "When you Parley with someone who has never seen your face, take +1 ongoing." I don't say either of those are great, but the second's way better than the first, and a player will think, "My guy will always keep his face covered!" and that will inform the playbook's style. I don't personally have a problem with Multiclass Dabbler as some other posters do. The multiclass moves are scattered throughout the original text and thus not out of place in a playbook. There are some playbooks which benefit from restricted choices, I think, but there are also some (like the bard, or a scholar type character) where having a move to multiclass to any other playbook makes sense. The multiclass moves can be a crutch for lazy design, but they're not always. If you put them in, you should be aware of how your moves will synergize with those in other classes. You should also be aware of how other classes will synergize with yours. For example, (since I remember commenting on this) Shamblercow's Necromancer had a move that let the user explode a corpse to deal damage. The Necromancer's damage is d4, but if a Fighter with d10 multiclassed to that move, you're dealing with something far more powerful. Maybe the best thing is just to jump in, playtest, and get opinions. For the record, operating from these principles, you'll also find that the original playbooks are far from perfect.* *My theory is that the Fighter was probably the first, it's one of the worst and also very Apocalypse Worldy.
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Apr 8, 2013 02:22
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That Rough Beast posted:There will be some repeat statements in here. quote:Maybe the best thing is just to jump in, playtest, and get opinions. For the record, operating from these principles, you'll also find that the original playbooks are far from perfect.* Yeah, this is definitely something I've noticed - I think a lot of the playbooks we've been making in these threads are much better designed than the core ones are. I'd rather take a Gladiator or Initiate over a Fighter any day. We've made a lot of really cool things here, and the original playbooks are starting to lose their shine, to me at least.
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Apr 8, 2013 02:44
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I just love how hackable this system is. We've come pretty far from the base in this and the prior thread, and I'd say the ease with which you can play with the mechanics is definitely a big factor in that.
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Apr 8, 2013 03:00
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Tollymain posted:I just love how hackable this system is. We've come pretty far from the base in this and the prior thread, and I'd say the ease with which you can play with the mechanics is definitely a big factor in that. I'll say it's flexible! It lets me do things mechanics-wise that very few systems could do without a lot of numbers, like the flexibility of the Namer and the things I'm doing with mount tags. Plus, right now I'm hacking the *world mechanics into a skirmish tabletop wargame in the vein of the classic GW Necromunda/Gorkamorka/Mordheim titles to see what happens, and it looks pretty promising. They are early attempts at more story-driven mechanics in that you have to manage stuff like searching for treasure, injuries and similar things between battles, which really was the spark for trying it aside from PixelScum joking about it in IRC. (I post everything on that under #Menouthis on G+ in case anyone's interested.)
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Apr 8, 2013 03:12
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What people said about classes are good, but I want to point out that some advanced moves can (and possible should be some straight + bonuses mechanically. It's a nice way to flesh out a lot of moves based on doing more fleshed out abilities or powers, and quite frankly some players aren't as good at delving into heavy fiction and want to see bigger numbers or just plain succeed more often. Some players like a straight mechanical bonus to the few moves they like to fall back on and that's fine.
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Apr 8, 2013 05:27
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gnome7 posted:Yeah, this is definitely something I've noticed - I think a lot of the playbooks we've been making in these threads are much better designed than the core ones are. I'd rather take a Gladiator or Initiate over a Fighter any day. We've made a lot of really cool things here, and the original playbooks are starting to lose their shine, to me at least. I'd have to say the only ones I really have a problem with are the Fighter, and to a less extent the Wizard. The Fighter is just plain boring, and the Paladin is just better at being the big tough melee guy while also getting much more interesting options. The Wizard is a powerful class with access to spells, plus Ritual, plus the ability to damage multiple enemies, a move that gives them +4 armour as long as they're not out of spells (not even a flat 4, +4 - so you can be a wizard with 6 armour by level 6, just by taking two moves, leather armour and a shield - vs. the Paladin's 5 armour for two moves only while on a Quest, and the Fighter's 5 armour for two moves; both of them in scale armour with a shield) and to top it off, the Wizard gets no moves requiring anything other than Int, and gets to Discern based on Int as well. Basically, as a Wizard, all you need is Int; you don't give a poo poo about anything else, which leaves you free to have your secondary as either Con or Dex so you can have decent HP or be good at dodging - not even things the Wizard should be good at. Fenarisk posted:Some players like a straight mechanical bonus Honestly? I don't think it's a good behaviour that ought to be encouraged. There's nothing wrong with giving out some mechanical bonuses, but a flat mechanical bonus with no fiction tied to it? That's bad, and shouldn't be done. This is the important difference: That Rough Beast posted:there's a world of difference between "Take +1 to Parley" and "When you Parley with someone who has never seen your face, take +1 ongoing." +1 to Parley? Boring. +1 to Parley with those who've never seen your face? That's a mechanical bonus with solid and interesting fiction, and should be the kind of thing you go for. Similarly, there's nothing wrong with advanced moves that mechanically enhance a core move under interesting/fictional circumstances (i.e. "when you do this fictional thing using this core move, also take +1 armour ongoing until you stop"). I'd say bad examples you should strive not to imitate are the Fighter's Merciless/Bloodthirsty and the Bard's Arcane Art/the v1 Shaman's Help from Beyond. Those are just flat mechanical bonuses with nothing interesting to them, and they're bad. e; Fenarisk posted:Cool good to know we're back to "playing the game wrong so get out" mentality bro. Yeah, that's exactly what this is and not a conversation about what is good and bad design when making a Dungeon World class. 
Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 13:55 on Apr 8, 2013 |
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Apr 8, 2013 09:19
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I don't really agree. Wizard and Paladin "overpowered" advanced moves are based on conditional abilities that have the threat of failure built right into them--Quest has Vows, Cast a Spell has pretty unforgiving 7-9 results that death spiral or lose your spells or give the DM permission to put you in a spot. If the DM never exploits those things (Show the Downside to a Class) then they'll be overpowered for free. The core fighter is completely consistently good at whatever it wants to be and gets to multiclass twice. Grab Metal Hurlant from the bard and pretend you're playing Skyrim except it's fun. I admit I didn't really get why anyone'd play a fighter either until I asked someone who truly enjoyed the fighter. They essentially said sometimes they want a simple class that didn't require them to gently caress with all sorts of numbers and choices every time they rolled their signature move or leveled up, or re-figure out how their character worked every session. They didn't want to slow the game down for the table or take up the DM's time. They saw multiclass moves and just passed them right on by for moves with really easy triggers that no one could possibly split hairs about. +1d4 damage. I'm Merciless. I got +1 to Discern Realities in combat, +1 to a move that gives me another +1. I learned to respect that and it's mellowed me out a lot. From what I understand, they just want to roll dice and play the base game, the one that everyone else was playing, not minigames unique to their own character sheet. I don't believe these people were failing to enjoy the game for all that it could be because it seemed to me that they were too busy enjoying it for what it was. Just because it bores you doesn't mean it shouldn't exist. If someone's understimulated without a bunch of choices there are classes for that with 3 choices on a 10+ and 2 on a 7-9 are for, and people who play easier classes probably don't care unless the people playing complex classes slow the game down too much for everyone by trying to make the perfect play all the time, or doing nothing but talking about the perfect plays everyone else should be making. That's right, sometimes having a fuckton of choices is boring for the whole rest of the table, or even numbs the player. In other words, just because something is "interesting" doesn't mean it's good. Sounds crazy, but the point is that DW is so fun that it makes playing the metagame seem dumb. I know I like the Mage, but the player started lately just picking "let the DM pick one option" for the 7-9 result of Cast A Spell every time, because it was always the better choice for the actual gaming experience. At first he thought being able to pick 2 drawbacks was more "powerful" than letting me pick one, but then he realized who loving gives a poo poo, that was just a metagame choice that took both of us out of the actual game for longer. He's not even a "roleplayer," he wasn't concerned about the fiction suffering or falling out of character or anything, it was just that the metagame was not worth his time, let alone both of our time, let alone the table's time. I think the right idea when making custom moves is to just make sure that no move is so good you should always be rolling for it, or so risky/dangerous/blandly bad you'd feel stupid ever using it, and that nothing should ever push hit rolls above +5 or below -3 with any degree of consistency. Basically don't make trap moves, don't make spammy boring moves with no consequences, and don't break the RNG.
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Apr 8, 2013 11:03
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Cool good to know we're back to "playing the game wrong so get out" mentality bro.
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Apr 8, 2013 13:11
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I've not caught up with the thread yet (I'm still going through the old one mining for inspiration) but I wanted to take a moment and post my first DW experience. This is going to be  , so I'll post it in sections over a couple days. I'd love to get any pointers or feedback you guys can give. I've loved reading your groups' advenutres, so here's mine.--- Part 1: "Corn: The final solution." We played this previous Saturday. I was DM'ing, as I typically do, and I invited six other players. Three of them were people I play with regularly from my old 4+year 4eD&D campaign. One was from a weekday 4e game I ran for a while. Another, I've played non-D&D games with a number of times. And the final one is another GM whom I've never played with before (he was my Girlfriend's 3.X D&D DM back when she was in High School). A few of us have played/run a few incarnations of FATE, as well as a bunch of other less mainstream games. None of us have played *World games before. I made the base playbooks available as well as 5 extra ones from a bundle available on drive-thru (or one of those websites). We ended up having a Ranger, a Namer, a Bard, a Fighter, a Thief and a Warlock. I had some basic ideas for the game, but left them full of holes as per the DW instructions. The game started with me asking questions to get a handle on a couple of those blanks so we could get rolling. Everyone pretty much put in equal input, and I directed questions at a couple of them specifically that I thought chimed in less than the others. I want to take a moment here to point out how much I love the instructions the book gives you for constructing and asking these questions. It's amazing. It's best to start with a conflict, so I asked them why their kingdom was at war with the kingdom downstream. "A missing prince." "... yeah, he came up on a diplomatic mission. After heading for home, he never arrived." Ok. So the prince never arrived home and the king of the southern nation blamed your people. What do people say about your king? "He's a fat, foolish oaf. What's that Game of Thrones phrase? 'A maiden's nightmare'?" "Totally. He's fallen out of the public's favor as he's let himself go and become really insular." Ok. So, the king has tired of this war. It's gone on too long, and it's not even (officially) your kingdom's fault. He's proposed a "final solution" to attempt to deal with the problem. What is it? "Economic collapse." With eyes wide, a number of others at the table nod in agreement. "Yeah." Ok, so what does the kingdom to the south produce that you're going to cut off, oversaturate the market with, or otherwise disrupt in some way? "Well, you mentioned that they were downriver... maybe they're at the delta? So agriculture?" "--They produce corn!" another of them breaks in (the table laughs at this reincorporation, as there was a discussion on corn before the session). I then go around asking each and every one of them if they work for the crown in some capacity. The ranger and the Warlock answer "no." The Fighter says he formerly did, but retired. One (the Namer) said he is currently employed in the royal library, and two (the Bard and Thief) said that they were currently both working for the king's secret service as a cover to pull a massive, long-con on him (Bonds FTW!). I start asking them individual questions now. Namer, since you've started working in the library (how long ago was that, by the way?) the King has asked you to look into finding some legendary item that can help in the economic collapse plan. What was that object? "The Blight Orb. Legend has it that it brings curse and decay to the land around it. It should sufficiently destroy their crops." Thief, Bard, since you've been assigned to find where this object is, you heard tale that it is located in a ruin to the north. Even though it's common knowledge that it resides there, it has never been looted. Therefore, it must be guarded somehow. What dastardly defense has each of you discovered to be guarding it?" The bard replies, "A lanyrinth full of minotaurs. And maybe golems. Golem-minotaurs. Except maybe they're reverse-minotaurs. Human on top, bull on bottom." The Thief replies, "A set of hazardous traps. They've probably got pressure plates and pitfalls." Ranger, you've been to this region before. What kind of terrian and monsterous threats roam the land around the ruins? "It's a forested river gorge. It looke like it was once desertified, as the river is cut deep into the rock, but the forest has returned to the area, bringing goblins with it." Fighter, you've been approached by the king's agents. They say he needs to call you back to service for a special mission, and if you do it, he will forgive the reason you left his employ. What was that reason, again? "Rumored improprieties with the Queen." (We later expanded on this through various reincorporation jokes that the Queen only stayed with the king because she could use her power to find a variety of other partners to keep her happy, and he only rarely noticed. The fighter was one such time.) (... but what about the missing foreign Prince?! Hmmm.) Warlock, you've wormed yourself into this merry bunch. For what dark and insidious reason? "The queen is well-known to be familiar with various agents of the crown. By becoming such an agent, I could gain her ear and convince her to help my patron, The King in Yellow, put on his play to the masses."  So, we've got all sorts of awesome information to go on here, and I've got just the thing to start them out. --- Coming up next time, in part 2: The Green-Daisho Goblins and Mongrel-Man Maintained Minotaurs. --- ...And in part 3: The Fighter invents water-skiing, and "Elves are freakin' weird, guys." --- ...And in part 4, the conclusion: "A plan never survives contact with the enemy--" "--You can say that again." Blasphemeral fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Apr 10, 2013 |
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Apr 8, 2013 21:37
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So I was going to make a stand-user compendium class, but then I realized the Psion is basically a stand-user. So yeah. Psion: the Best Class.
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Apr 8, 2013 22:23
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I have yet to play this but I've read through the core book and am reading through the Goon-made GM guide now. I went through the classes in the OP and I vaguely remember some kind of class book that had a drawing of a robot in it, but now I can't find it. I know World of Dungeons has a robot class, but I could have sworn I saw another one that somebody made for Dungeon World. Anybody have an idea of what I'm talking about?
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Apr 9, 2013 03:11
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Overemotional Robot posted:I have yet to play this but I've read through the core book and am reading through the Goon-made GM guide now. I went through the classes in the OP and I vaguely remember some kind of class book that had a drawing of a robot in it, but now I can't find it. I know World of Dungeons has a robot class, but I could have sworn I saw another one that somebody made for Dungeon World. Anybody have an idea of what I'm talking about? There's the Engine of Destruction from Dungeon Planet, though there isn't any art in the free character sheets I'm linking there.
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Apr 9, 2013 03:44
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| # ? Jun 6, 2024 15:52 |
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Hmm, maybe it was something else I was looking at then. It's driving me crazy not knowing, though. Also someone in this thread was working on a class that was basically a mech pilot? I can't find it now, though.
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Apr 9, 2013 03:55
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