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Sinteres posted:Please don't turn Paradox Games into boring/masturbatory political education tools for internet activists. We all know that colonialism was bad and that all sorts of other activities associated with war are horrible, but the vast majority of people who play strategic war games do so to have fun, not to get a loving lecture about how whatever they're doing in the game is evil. The people who actually implemented these policies didn't get a pop-up warning them about their moral depravity in real life, so why is it necessary in the game? You can work out the implications of your actions on your own if you're inclined to do so. I don't want a lecture or any soapboxing or anything like that, either. I just want some more historical or semi-historical flavor events about colonization.
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Apr 11, 2013 18:15
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When one of my officers overseas punches a kid in the face, I want it to have consequences.
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Apr 11, 2013 18:20
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So in my latest Vicky 2 game I sphered a country, then decided I wanted to annex it instead. Unfortunately you can't declare war on anything you have sphered, so I'm kinda stuck with it now. What can I edit in the savegame to make it a colony?
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Apr 11, 2013 18:22
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Lord Hydronium posted:So in my latest Vicky 2 game I sphered a country, then decided I wanted to annex it instead. Unfortunately you can't declare war on anything you have sphered, so I'm kinda stuck with it now. What can I edit in the savegame to make it a colony? Bring up the console. Type "showprovinceid", then hover over the province(s) you want. It will show that province's id number. Type "changeowner [your tag in all caps] [provinceid]". Do that for every province you want to annex.
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Apr 11, 2013 18:28
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Average Bear posted:Bring up the console. Type "showprovinceid", then hover over the province(s) you want. It will show that province's id number. Type "changeowner [your tag in all caps] [provinceid]". Do that for every province you want to annex.  SON OF A BITCH! First I learn that there's an easier way to change province ownership than editing save files, now I learn there's an easier way to find province IDs than digging in the province history files  . Someone post a way to find nation tags via the console in game and I'll feel like a complete dummy!
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Apr 11, 2013 18:35
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DrProsek posted:
There's no way via console that I know of, but there's a text document in "Victoria 2/common/Countries.txt". Just control-f a country's real name to find the tag.
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Apr 11, 2013 18:38
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DrProsek posted:
What about a graphical editor?
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Apr 11, 2013 18:41
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E:^^^^^ not quite a way to find tags via console, but still drat useful tool!Thanks  .Average Bear posted:There's no way via console that I know of, but there's a text document in "Victoria 2/common/Countries.txt". Just control-f a country's real name to find the tag. Ah good, at least the way I use to find tags is the most efficient one  . I still have trouble sometimes remembering what nation is from vanilla V2, or the mod I'm playing, but at least that tends to just be one extra search.
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Apr 11, 2013 18:41
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Wolfgang Pauli posted:de Brazza. His whole deal was in showing how pretty much everyone else in the Scramble were bastards by doing the same things they were but carrying trade goods instead of guns. When he was replaced as administrator and the French Congo fell into exploitative poo poo, it was Brazza who was sent to investigate and put an end to it. His vilification as a colonizer is largely an academic one, and he is still an important part of the Congolese national myth. I wasn't aware of him until now, but the wiki article doesn't make it sound like much action was taken despite his efforts: quote:Brazza was sent to investigate and produced a damning report, in spite of many obstructions placed in his path. When his deputy Félicien Challaye placed the embarrassing report in front of the National Assembly, it was suppressed and those oppressive conditions remained in the French Congo for decades. DrProsek posted:
Doesn't it show in the tooltip with the show id command? Might be a debug feature though. "help" lists all the console commands, as I have mentioned here before, there's some useful stuff. BTW, there's some kind of HoD stream with Podcat on twitch in ~20 mins from this post: http://www.twitch.tv/paradoxinteractive
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Apr 11, 2013 18:44
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Darkrenown posted:Doesn't it show in the tooltip with the show id command? Might be a debug feature though. "help" lists all the console commands, as I have mentioned here before, there's some useful stuff. Huh, that's strange, when I use the help command, it always just says "no help for you", even if I try to use it with another command (like "help tag" or something). I have the Steam version, does the steam version maybe disable some debug commands?
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Apr 11, 2013 18:54
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Do you have AHD?
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Apr 11, 2013 18:56
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Darkrenown posted:Do you have AHD? Yup. Got it in a bundle of Paradox stuff from one of those sales on Amazon a while back.
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Apr 11, 2013 18:58
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How odd. I don't have the Steam version here, but I will look at it tomorrow. Although it may be I am just being dumb and it wasn't in AHD. Is in HoD and TFH though.
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Apr 11, 2013 19:03
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I have the steam version, and I get "No help for you" as well.
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Apr 11, 2013 19:08
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Oh wow, that newspaper feature is pretty rad.
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Apr 11, 2013 19:13
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Darkrenown posted:I wasn't aware of him until now, but the wiki article doesn't make it sound like much action was taken despite his efforts: That actually sounds like it would make a nice random event. "Abuse in [colony state]"/"A former colonial governor made a report on harsh treatment of natives by the newer administration, citing systematic abuse, torture and punishment that seem more fitting for the middle ages than the enlightenment." Option A: Silence him, lose native population in colony state, maybe tinker with the native CON and MIL of [colony state] Option B: Install a new administration, lose some prestige, gain a little CON at home
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Apr 11, 2013 19:21
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Rome Total War and I think Medieval 2 both had the option to exterminate or enslave a settlement when you conquer it, and give in game bonuses in the form of reduced dissent and redistributed population for doing so. Yet I've never heard anyone complain about those features. Victoria, EU, and HOI go out of their way to not mention historical cruelties like that, and people poo poo on them a lot more. I just don't see the problem. I'm playing a country before the modern era, and although I the player can judge the "historical" actions of my country to be horrible, my country's contemporaries often didn't. And I the player just justify it to myself as being a necessary cost of bringing the entire world under my enlightened rule  I don't want moralizing in my games. I'm as left as they come, but I don't see how I need to be told that my actions in a game are bad and I should feel bad.
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Apr 11, 2013 19:22
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Darkrenown posted:How odd. I don't have the Steam version here, but I will look at it tomorrow. Although it may be I am just being dumb and it wasn't in AHD. Is in HoD and TFH though. Ah, thanks! If it's a new feature in HoD, that makes my decision to preorder it even more justified! I actually remembered that I have a copy of V2 + AHD on Gamersgate I got as a Christmas present a while ago, in about 3 hours I'll be at work and I'll see if I have the same issue in the GG version. If I do I'll look forward to trying out HoD on the 16th.
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Apr 11, 2013 19:25
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It's a little different because those games don't model ethnicity at all, so its less "genocide button" and more like "Soldiers Gone Wild" as a conquering general decides what to let the troops do to a conquered city. And if I remember right, at least in Rome, the dissent reduction was mostly because overcrowded cities had huuuuge dissent penalties and thus reducing the population removes that penalty.
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Apr 11, 2013 19:29
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DrSunshine posted:Also, I have no idea what would cause this timeline. Probably a series of factors that lead to the USA starting off with a lot less political authority and identity as a single nation, which made it more viable for small regional states to break off and establish de-facto autonomy. Someone more familiar with late 18th century and early 19th century American history might be able to make up a better explanation. You've thrown in so many things that I don't think history really matters at this point as much as gameplay. Why don't you run a few hands-off games to see how the map ends up?
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Apr 11, 2013 19:32
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Regarding the livestream: I love those newspapers! They kind of remind me of SimCity2000.  EDIT: I've always wondered-- what does "Consciousness" do anyway? Militancy I think I understand pretty well-- as the chance that rebellions will pop up. But I'm not quite sure how Consciousness relates to that.
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Apr 11, 2013 19:32
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DrSunshine posted:Regarding the livestream: I love those newspapers! They kind of remind me of SimCity2000. Consciousness (as I understand it) increases the chance that people will join movements and press for reforms. The idea being that they're aware that they don't have it as good as they should, and get active in politics to fix that.
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Apr 11, 2013 19:47
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Watching the livestream, the crisis system looks like it will make for some amazing little 'emergent' stories. 
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Apr 11, 2013 19:51
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I'm really impressed with a lot of the Heart of Darkness additions. Is there really anything huge economically though? I'd kinda like to see HoD take a lot of APD's better ideas (and expanded markets). Also that dude's top hat...  So how does one get the job of Paradox Interactive's resident alternate historian anyway?
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Apr 11, 2013 19:58
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DrSunshine posted:EDIT: I've always wondered-- what does "Consciousness" do anyway? Militancy I think I understand pretty well-- as the chance that rebellions will pop up. But I'm not quite sure how Consciousness relates to that. Militancy is how upset your people are at how lovely things are; consciousness is how aware your people are of how things can be less lovely. When a POP has low consciousness, its important issues will all be party platforms - interventionism, moralism, residency, etc. As consciousness rises, the POP will start to care more and more about political and social reforms, and will start to gain militancy as long as those reforms aren't passed. Consciousness also effects migration, assimilation, and promotion rates.
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Apr 11, 2013 20:03
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Drone posted:I'm really impressed with a lot of the Heart of Darkness additions. Is there really anything huge economically though? I'd kinda like to see HoD take a lot of APD's better ideas (and expanded markets). Same as anything else: Fabricate a CB, assassinate the current one, press claim on the weak new one.
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Apr 11, 2013 20:03
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SpaceViking posted:Consciousness (as I understand it) increases the chance that people will join movements and press for reforms. The idea being that they're aware that they don't have it as good as they should, and get active in politics to fix that. That's correct. High consciousness means that people will attempt to vote for reforms that they want, if they can't do that, they will resort to more violent means. So high consciousness can be good in a republic, and is usually bad in a monarchy.
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Apr 11, 2013 20:06
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Sinteres posted:Please don't turn Paradox Games into boring/masturbatory political education tools for internet activists. We all know that colonialism was bad and that all sorts of other activities associated with war are horrible, but the vast majority of people who play strategic war games do so to have fun, not to get a loving lecture about how whatever they're doing in the game is evil. The people who actually implemented these policies didn't get a pop-up warning them about their moral depravity in real life, so why is it necessary in the game? You can work out the implications of your actions on your own if you're inclined to do so. I am not sure how what anyone have suggested would accomplish this. Unless you just really dislike reading, which would mean the content wouldn't matter in whether it was boring or not. Also someone has never visited the official forums, I see.
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Apr 11, 2013 20:17
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Lord Hydronium posted:So in my latest Vicky 2 game I sphered a country, then decided I wanted to annex it instead. Unfortunately you can't declare war on anything you have sphered, so I'm kinda stuck with it now. What can I edit in the savegame to make it a colony? There are mods that implement a release country from sphere decision, quite handy
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Apr 11, 2013 20:21
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This war on the stream. The not recruiting replacement soldiers and the 10 newspapers piled up is driving me nuts.
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Apr 11, 2013 20:30
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SpaceViking posted:This war on the stream.
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Apr 11, 2013 20:31
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CharlestheHammer posted:I am not sure how what anyone have suggested would accomplish this. Unless you just really dislike reading, which would mean the content wouldn't matter in whether it was boring or not. I just don't think "Fun fact: you just committed genocide!" adds anything to the enjoyment of the games. Some flavor text here and there would be fine with me, so I'm not saying there's literally nothing that can be done. Still, the perpetrators of crimes against humanity generally didn't face dramatic negative consequences as a result until relatively recently, and decisions that reward that behavior would be even more controversial than just abstracting the issue as they tend to do now, so it would seem that not opening that can of worms would be a hell of a lot easier than navigating the minefield of portraying things accurately without offending a whole lot of people. Okay, some nationalists/bigots/whatever don't recognize that some of the horrible things that happened in history were horrible, but telling them in-game that they're committing atrocities isn't going to educate them, it's just going to make them stop playing (unless they think it's awesome, which is even worse).
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Apr 11, 2013 20:41
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Are these streams recorded and if so where can I view them later?
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Apr 11, 2013 20:54
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If you do not like colonies and colonialism then you can get out of amurica  If they gave me the option I'd genocide and "colonize" Europe for all I care. I just push the button and make it go from one color to another. If you can't stand colonialism then go loving march around down in Washington D.C. and try to get the blood diamond business ended or the ventures in Iraq and Afghanistan. But you won't... because that would require effort while sitting here badgering developers who are making games featuring a historical thing countries did doesn't require much exertion.Video games are about mental challenges or escapism. Not a loving history lesson, the only reason RPG get away with it is because of "depth" being required for their characters.
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Apr 11, 2013 21:04
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I need to stop watching these streams because I spend most of the time yelling at the people playing because they keep missing important stuff. For example the movement was for minimum wage and he kept lowering working hours instead, which lead to the shitloads of rebels. Or when they kept saying how they needed to wait for 1870 and then first missed 1870, then later missed the invention they were waiting for. I know it's hard talking and playing at the same time, but drat.
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Apr 11, 2013 21:14
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Well we should all remember that HoD will allow us to mod the newspapers that are published. I think that it would be a great addition to mod certain newspapers to be heavily against the atrocities committed by colonial forces while others whitewash them. Newspapers in general offer a lot of opportunity for adding flavor and "story lines" to our games and I couldn't be more excited to have them!
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Apr 11, 2013 21:52
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Vodos posted:I need to stop watching these streams because I spend most of the time yelling at the people playing because they keep missing important stuff. For example the movement was for minimum wage and he kept lowering working hours instead, which lead to the shitloads of rebels. Or when they kept saying how they needed to wait for 1870 and then first missed 1870, then later missed the invention they were waiting for. I remember watching the stream for the Old Gods, and thinking it was kinda cool, but the person playing (sorry Paradox employees, I can't tell y'all Swedes apart) was sitting at 100% warscore against one of the counts he was annexing for like a month and I just spent that whole month ing thinking "drat IT SEND HIM A PEACE DEMAND!"
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Apr 11, 2013 21:54
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Hot Dog Day #82 posted:Well we should all remember that HoD will allow us to mod the newspapers that are published. I think that it would be a great addition to mod certain newspapers to be heavily against the atrocities committed by colonial forces while others whitewash them. Newspapers in general offer a lot of opportunity for adding flavor and "story lines" to our games and I couldn't be more excited to have them! I realize it won't do this in vanilla but it'd be really cool if some enterpresing modder could make the "Press Rights" decision reflect what appears in the newspaper and how critical of the government it is. But that would require a shitload of work.
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Apr 11, 2013 22:01
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If I read the Dev. Diaries right, they are doing that.Developer Diary 1 posted:Some story types also come in multiple versions to avoid repetition, while others can be skewed by the ideology of your ruling party or by the laws of your Nation. For example, when a Communist newspaper reports that Communist rebels have overthrown the government in another nation they will write a much more positive story than a Conservative nation's paper. Another possible example is a nation with Censored Press may not reveal the exact number of losses when it reports on a lost battle. RagnarokAngel posted:I realize it won't do this in vanilla but it'd be really cool if some enterpresing modder could make the "Press Rights" decision reflect what appears in the newspaper and how critical of the government it is. But that would require a shitload of work. PrinceRandom fucked around with this message at 22:13 on Apr 11, 2013 |
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Apr 11, 2013 22:05
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RagnarokAngel posted:I realize it won't do this in vanilla but it'd be really cool if some enterpresing modder could make the "Press Rights" decision reflect what appears in the newspaper and how critical of the government it is. But that would require a shitload of work. Something like this? HoD Dev Diary 1 posted:Some story types also come in multiple versions to avoid repartitions, while others can be skewed by the ideology of your ruling party or by the laws of your Nation. For example, when a Communist newspaper reports that Communist rebels have overthrown the government in another nation they will write a much more positive story than a Conservative nation's paper. Another possible example is a nation with Censored Press may not reveal the exact number of losses when it reports on a lost battle. Probably won't be any stories critical of colonialism in vanilla, but it should be pretty easy to add. Edit: Darkrenown posted:Sure, the whole system is pretty moddable, the only thing you can't do is add more story types.
Chickpea Roar fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Apr 11, 2013 |
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Apr 11, 2013 22:06
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