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PrinceRandom posted:If I read the Dev. Diaries right, they are doing that. They mentioned something like that in the live stream. Sweden had gotten it's main army wiped out in a disastrous battle, and the newspaper had a little blurb about it, and the developer mentioned that if you had state press only, the article would have been a little more circumspect or described the defeat differently. Also, Paradox, you can tell the American guy from the stream that his inability to shut up about how the game was 75% off on the Paradox webstore caused me to spend the 7.50 to rebuy it and AHD so that I could have it on Steam instead of Gamersgate. A marketing angel got his wings. 
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Apr 11, 2013 22:09
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Maybe they should take some inspiration from Bhutan and call military losses 'moral victories'.
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Apr 11, 2013 22:11
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Well gently caress I hated victoria 2 but I just bought both a house divided and pre-ordered heart of darkness. I'm sure I'll install them, play for a few days while asking lots of questions on the forums and then get sick of it and curse paradox. But Wiz gotta eat. Podcat too.
Baronjutter fucked around with this message at 22:39 on Apr 11, 2013 |
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Apr 11, 2013 22:17
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Fintilgin posted:Also, Paradox, you can tell the American guy from the stream that his inability to shut up about how the game was 75% off on the Paradox webstore caused me to spend the 7.50 to rebuy it and AHD so that I could have it on Steam instead of Gamersgate. A marketing angel got his wings. VICTORY Star posted:There are mods that implement a release country from sphere decision, quite handy We made a new diplo action for this in Heart of Darkness as well Vodos posted:I need to stop watching these streams because I spend most of the time yelling at the people playing because they keep missing important stuff. For example the movement was for minimum wage and he kept lowering working hours instead, which lead to the shitloads of rebels. Or when they kept saying how they needed to wait for 1870 and then first missed 1870, then later missed the invention they were waiting for. Haha yeah, so that was why ;D its really hard to play properly on these streams, I swear I read working hours lol, not really much time to stop and read properly and I was rushing to get to 1870. Also after 2 hours of Steven's hat jokes its hard to stay focused and frosty.  Nightblade posted:I guess not. You can't add new types of articles, but since events is an article type you can pretty much just roll everything through that that you can script so its not a biggie. When we talk types we mean things like actual code picking out details from battles and saving that in articles you can run triggers on etc. There is also what we call "fake news" that can have regular triggers and run series of connected articles etc if you want. imo anything that can be reasonably scripted is. podcat fucked around with this message at 22:21 on Apr 11, 2013 |
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Apr 11, 2013 22:18
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podcat posted:You can't add new types of articles, but since events is an article type you can pretty much just roll everything through that that you can script so its not a biggie. Ooh, that basically gives you all the article types you need: if I understand that right, you can mod in something like when you get the event about smashing religious monuments of a colony and you pick the "who gives a hoot about their religion" option, you get an article about how the government has managed to clear room for a brand new beautiful church (if you're conservative) or an article about how the government is brutally smashing any semblance of the colonized people's culture and faith as part of a barbaric state religion policies (if you're socialist). Is it possible to make the socialist paper's view on an event tied to the religious view of your socialist party, say? The Papal States has a moralist socialist party (or at least in APD it did) so it would seem a tad odd they'd be anti-promoting Catholicism (although it's a unique circumstance and you can always rationalize it as "the socialist party wants to spread the faith and doesn't shy away from the state church, but it does not want to do it through brutal colonialism but through preaching and sermons").
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Apr 11, 2013 22:27
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catlord posted:When I bought the Plentiful Paradox Bundle from Amazon I was able to register Vicky 2 on Steam. Darkrenown posted:I wasn't aware of him until now, but the wiki article doesn't make it sound like much action was taken despite his efforts: YF-23 posted:That actually sounds like it would make a nice random event.  There's actually room enough, I think, for how exploration and expansion could play out. You could have the American Contract-At-Gunpoint as private citizens settle regardless of policy, you could have the Henry Morton Stanley who has vague interest in science and great interest in money, the de Brazza policy of cooperative subjugation and trade dependency, the Frederick Lugard Stout Military Man who kind of goes The Man Who Would Be King in crafting the myth around his legacy, and the William MacGregor well-meaning doctor who tries as best he can to find a middle ground while focusing on infrastructure development (he was the Walter Reed of Lagos Colony). Well, I guess you also have the Cecil Rhodes "My Rothschild patron funded my monopoly purchases over these cheap, too-small mining plots and now I own a region. I might as well declare it a colony." *edit* Oh, and the guy who took over after de Brazza was a fairly unimpressive Lugard/Stanley type. He was a military man with a military mind, but administratively he was a rubber stamp for French companies in the colonies. *edit2* 
Wolfgang Pauli fucked around with this message at 22:57 on Apr 11, 2013 |
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Apr 11, 2013 22:46
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Why isn't it Tuesday yet?  I'm really looking forward to test-driving the new unciv possibilities more than anything, I think.
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Apr 11, 2013 22:59
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There is no need to have a pop-up labelled "GENOCIDE! You have wiped out the Inca people", but it adds to the historicity of the game to reflect colonisation as exactly what it was: brutal, extortionist actions by European nations. There needn't be a judgemental tone to the whole thing; after the game's messages already ape the POV of a historical adviser and reflect views of the time. But it should at least make clear the human impact of the player's actions. The game already does some of this. Walking through South America and repeatedly clicking "Attack Natives" gave me a very clear sense (and guilt) that I was literally massacring tribes by the thousands. But other events are vague. Given its infamy boost, I'm guessing "Enact Settlement Policy" in EU3 is something truly horrific, but the in-game description doesn't clarify anything at all. FYI this is what it currently says: quote:While unpopular both locally and abroad, an active settlement policy vis-à-vis this province will bring it into our cultural sphere within fifty years or so. There shouldn't be a need to hint-hint that imperialist France is evicting Iberians by the shipload. One of the charms of Paradox's games is that we get to play historical scenarios with modern sensibilities. Let the player decide for themselves whether to follow the historical path or be nice folks (and indeed "lose" the game by failing to paint the map). It's all part of the fun, IMO.
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Apr 11, 2013 23:08
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Can't you guys release it tomorrow so we can play it over the weekend?
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Apr 11, 2013 23:37
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Vegetable posted:There is no need to have a pop-up labelled "GENOCIDE! You have wiped out the Inca people", but it adds to the historicity of the game to reflect colonisation as exactly what it was: brutal, extortionist actions by European nations. There needn't be a judgemental tone to the whole thing; after the game's messages already ape the POV of a historical adviser and reflect views of the time. But it should at least make clear the human impact of the player's actions. The only time I've ever seen the brutally obvious "Guess what? You're a War Criminal" kind of thing work was in The Guild 2. The only consequence to embezzling your town's funds was a guy saying "You are a knave." That's all that was really needed. It did nothing to stop the player from embezzling, but it played off of the player's empathetic attachment to the town he or she leads to remind them that this action is harmful to the prosperity of this thing he's steward of. Wolfgang Pauli fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Apr 11, 2013 |
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Apr 11, 2013 23:43
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I don't even do colonies anymore in EU3 because you pretty much have to genocide thousands and thousands of natives. Even exploring (as was done historically with armies of thousands of soldiers of course) triggers fights with the natives that lead to their genocide. I know it's a game but I like to sort of immerse my self a bit and it just made me think "gently caress this is horrible no" and then wish we had more options. Maybe I'm a huge baby playing these games for the wrong reason, but I wish there were more options to do useless but ethical things. I often play to see how ethical and progressive a leader I can be, given the time period. We don't need to be hit over the head with it, but subtle detached hints at how horrific/ethical we are being really helps build a narrative in our heads. I mean we're all writing narratives in our heads as we play right?? Mostly I just want more minor options and more flavour and feedback in all my paradox games. If I'm genociding someone I don't mind if some stats make me feel a bit sad and remind me what I'm doing. But if I've treated my people right I'd like little hints at how happy they are. I'd love to see how my repeated siding with peasants/labour over nobility has created a more just society. I'd love to see how that important lord I threw in prison for raping a maid has sent a warning to society and maybe sparked some crazy idea about women's rights. I want to fight against brutal odds to pull off some incredibly a-historical progressive policy or social change. These are the thrills I get out of these games. Baronjutter fucked around with this message at 23:58 on Apr 11, 2013 |
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Apr 11, 2013 23:50
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DrSunshine posted:Wellp, good luck to Ubik pressing his claim! He'll marry Johan's sister, have a son, then kill all Johan's heirs.
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Apr 11, 2013 23:51
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I dunno if any changes in the text would affect how I play at all or even make me stop to think for a second, since I usually go full sociopath in Paradox game and have no trouble murdering a shitload of my own character's children in CK2 if it means a genius will inherit and I'm perfectly fine with letting hundreds of thousands of soldiers die if it means prettier borders.
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Apr 11, 2013 23:56
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Lord Tywin posted:I dunno if any changes in the text would affect how I play at all or even make me stop to think for a second, since I usually go full sociopath in Paradox game and have no trouble murdering a shitload of my own character's children in CK2 if it means a genius will inherit and I'm perfectly fine with letting hundreds of thousands of soldiers die if it means prettier borders. Baronjutter posted:Mostly I just want more minor options and more flavour and feedback in all my paradox games. If I'm genociding someone I don't mind if some stats make me feel a bit sad and remind me what I'm doing. But if I've treated my people right I'd like little hints at how happy they are. I'd love to see how my repeated siding with peasants/labour over nobility has created a more just society. I'd love to see how that important lord I threw in prison for raping a maid has sent a warning to society and maybe sparked some crazy idea about women's rights. I want to fight against brutal odds to pull off some incredibly a-historical progressive policy or social change. These are the thrills I get out of these games. Wolfgang Pauli fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Apr 12, 2013 |
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Apr 12, 2013 00:01
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Wolfgang Pauli posted:de Brazza's a cool guy, and I'm glad you know about him now. Not a bad looking dude either.  Basically got screwed over by Marchand, labelled a 'negrophile' and blamed for Fashoda.
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Apr 12, 2013 00:07
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I like to think of myself as a liberal guy, but when it comes to these games I have a hard time developing an emotional attachment to the numbers and pie charts that are meant to represent the opposition. I'd say that the only game I think twice about being an awful person in is Crusader Kings 2, and I am sure the reason for that is because the characters have faces in it
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Apr 12, 2013 00:15
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Hot Dog Day #82 posted:I like to think of myself as a liberal guy, but when it comes to these games I have a hard time developing an emotional attachment to the numbers and pie charts that are meant to represent the opposition. I'd say that the only game I think twice about being an awful person in is Crusader Kings 2, and I am sure the reason for that is because the characters have faces in it *edit* Even if you are engaging with it, nobody's asking you to act on your own personal feelings. Lord knows I've painted the map my color more than a few times. It being a game doesn't make it irrelevant, it just means you can pick and choose your playing to your liking on the continuum from rote minmaxing to strict narrative roleplaying. Wolfgang Pauli fucked around with this message at 00:26 on Apr 12, 2013 |
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Apr 12, 2013 00:24
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How about "Feelin' Bad DLC" where there is just piles of text outlining how the player is a terrible person?
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Apr 12, 2013 00:27
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Wolfgang Pauli posted:The onus isn't on the player to feel these things in a vacuum, it's on the developer to provide cues and information to allow a player to engage, should the player want to engage with it. The onus isn't on anyone. Paradox isn't setting out to make Guilt Simulator 2000.
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Apr 12, 2013 01:15
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Baloogan posted:How about "Feelin' Bad DLC" where there is just piles of text outlining how the player is a terrible person? I would be happy with the occasional pop-up giving you a choice of increased MIL in a colony for increased $$$.
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Apr 12, 2013 01:19
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Sinteres posted:The onus isn't on anyone. Paradox isn't setting out to make Guilt Simulator 2000.
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Apr 12, 2013 01:25
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Sinteres posted:Guilt Simulator 2000. Hey Paradox Devs, I've got this crazy game idea to pitch, you're still licensing out your engines, right? I swear it will end better than Magna Mundi.
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Apr 12, 2013 01:33
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Victoria already lets you crash your sphere-lings' economies, similar to how Egypt went from being an exporter of cotton to becoming an importer of cotton during British rule because British tariffs kept making GBS threads on them so badly.
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Apr 12, 2013 01:41
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Sinteres posted:The onus isn't on anyone. Paradox isn't setting out to make Guilt Simulator 2000. I'd buy the gently caress out of guilt simulator 2000. Its not like it would be that obtrusive. CharlestheHammer fucked around with this message at 01:46 on Apr 12, 2013 |
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Apr 12, 2013 01:41
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Guilt Simulator 2000? But I've already played Shadow of the Colossus 
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Apr 12, 2013 01:46
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Guilt Simulator 2000 is already in development: http://pope.jeffsys.net/index.php#ppl Sorry dude, you're in but the wife stays. I have kids to feed.
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Apr 12, 2013 01:48
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CharlestheHammer posted:I'd buy the gently caress out of guilt simulator 2000. I'd probably buy it too, and if someone made a mod with more historical detail on this sort of thing I'd be interested to see what they came up with. Still, I imagine the market for that sort of thing would be considerably more limited than for vanilla Paradox games. I just think this whole revisionist history (I don't mean that in a negative way) push, while better intentioned than the appeals for greater Balkan glory on the Paradox forums, represents a similarly narrow interest. Historical context is good, but primarily to the extent that it makes the process of global conquest/pretty borders more fun.
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Apr 12, 2013 01:52
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Guilt Simulator 2000 is already in development: http://pope.jeffsys.net/index.php#ppl I thought this was Guilt Simulator 2000: 
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Apr 12, 2013 02:00
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Defeatist Elitist posted:Hey Paradox Devs, I've got this crazy game idea to pitch, you're still licensing out your engines, right? The funny thing is, didn't Magna Mundi (the mod) do this exact thing? As in, you could set different levels of colonial policy from conciliatory negotiation (which gave mild economic benefits and had the best relationship with the native population) to liquidation/extraction (which gave the most benefits but also told you that you were literally committing genocide).
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Apr 12, 2013 02:02
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Sinteres posted:I'd probably buy it too, and if someone made a mod with more historical detail on this sort of thing I'd be interested to see what they came up with. Still, I imagine the market for that sort of thing would be considerably more limited than for vanilla Paradox games. I just think this whole revisionist history (I don't mean that in a negative way) push, while better intentioned than the appeals for greater Balkan glory on the Paradox forums, represents a similarly narrow interest. Historical context is good, but primarily to the extent that it makes the process of global conquest/pretty borders more fun. Its not revisionist though? No one saying they believed it was bad. Its just no one cares what they thought. Paradox doesn't (for good reasons really). Selective historical realism isn't that great of a reason to include/exclude something. Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Guilt Simulator 2000 is already in development: http://pope.jeffsys.net/index.php#ppl
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Apr 12, 2013 02:13
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In EU3, the first time I got the message that said that, basically, the natives had "disappeared eventually, nothing left of them remains...", I felt really sad. It's like the game was reminding me "Yeah, you pretty much wiped out those people and nobody will remember they even existed."
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Apr 12, 2013 02:13
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CharlestheHammer posted:Its not revisionist though? I just meant applying concerns we have today to a game about the past. Maybe that was the wrong word?
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Apr 12, 2013 02:20
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So is there a link to a video of the HoD stream? I mean, I already preordered the thing but I'd love to see more of it  .
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Apr 12, 2013 02:27
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Average Bear posted:Bring up the console. Type "showprovinceid", then hover over the province(s) you want. It will show that province's id number. Type "changeowner [your tag in all caps] [provinceid]". Do that for every province you want to annex. Playing as Italy, Austria offers an alliance out of the blue. They seem like they're doing pretty well, I accept.  Well then. 
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Apr 12, 2013 02:42
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I hope in the next big-name FPS they cut aside to detail the story of families dealing with grief and struggling to make ends meet for every faceless mook I gun down. Or maybe the next Final Fantasy game will tell me about how I've played my part in irrevocably disrupting a delicate monster ecosystem. See, when I play games, I like to feel bad about it.
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Apr 12, 2013 04:13
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I don't see how spouting such ridiculous strawman arguments benefits the conversation.
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Apr 12, 2013 04:14
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Let's not argue anymore, guys. And all over a stupid comment I made, too-- I feel terribly guilty for even mentioning it!  Lookit this! Divided States of America 1.0 Give it a try and see if there's things I should tweak!
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Apr 12, 2013 04:21
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:I don't see how spouting such ridiculous strawman arguments benefits the conversation. Those aren't bad ideas either, HTH. Hell I am surprised FF hasn't done that yet. Edit: Though it isn't enough to base an entire game on. CharlestheHammer fucked around with this message at 04:32 on Apr 12, 2013 |
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Apr 12, 2013 04:24
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DrSunshine posted:Let's not argue anymore, guys. And all over a stupid comment I made, too-- I feel terribly guilty for even mentioning it! My copy of this seems to be crashing on load when it's called to load flags: is there a log I should give you?
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Apr 12, 2013 04:45
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DerLeo posted:My copy of this seems to be crashing on load when it's called to load flags: is there a log I should give you? Whoa, that's weird. It doesn't do that for me. I'm pretty sure it's not missing any flags, but I'll go check. It's probably a good idea to PM me your game and error.log files using pastebin too.
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Apr 12, 2013 04:50
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