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Baronjutter posted:Could be easiest to just add some mild bonuses to productivity/science and so on and maybe upset conservative/religious pops? It's not like women didn't do anything back then, they worked bloody hard actually. It's not like their labour was wasted or lost or women were just sitting on nice chairs all day wishing they could participate in the world. If they aren't slaving for little or no pay around the house or farm someone else would. It's not a huge source of free labour, but it was inefficient and pointlessly segregated labour so a moderate bonus to pop productivity could be a simple way to model it. It seems kind of weird that something as significant as women's suffrage should be little more than a productivity buff at the cost of a little bit of MIL and CON.
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Apr 14, 2013 01:52
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All I was thinking of was a little boost to consciousness and a hit to militancy. Just trying to work POP productivness and such seems like a troublesome mechanic. In retrospect it seems kinda odd that there isn't a distinction between U/R and M/F, considering how dynamic those struggles were during that period.
PrinceRandom fucked around with this message at 04:30 on Apr 14, 2013 |
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Apr 14, 2013 04:26
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I imagine the suffrage debate should also make a segment of the population more reactionary/consciousness, too. So perhaps you can write the chain so that the closer you come to passing suffrage the more divided the country becomes, and then when it does get passed there is a big jump in reactionary sentiment and consciousness; the reactionary can die down over time as people realize that women voting isn't the end of the world, but with the suffrage act passed consciousness slowly ticks upward? I'd also say that if the act is defeated there should be a huge consciousness jump along with a similar drop on the reactionary side. I also wish that there were events for opening women's colleges (like Vassar of Smith) that help raise scientific output while also causing a slight rise in consciousness.
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Apr 14, 2013 05:05
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Wolfgang Pauli posted:I'd suggest the POP system start to track things like Urban/Rural and Male/Female Urban/Rural is already tracked, that's called "Class".
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Apr 14, 2013 05:24
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WhitemageofDOOM posted:Urban/Rural is already tracked, that's called "Class". Seth Efrika goons, are there any decisions for diploannexing Oranje or Transvaal or Natal?
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Apr 14, 2013 05:34
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I'm actually looking forward a bit to HoD despite my inability to do anything competent as an industrial power.
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Apr 14, 2013 07:08
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Wolfgang Pauli posted:All APD's Woman's Suffrage decision did was gently caress with your voting proportions. I never got the justification behind since there's a 50/50 distribution in absence of things like infanticide, and that should transverse class. I'm not sure if the POP system can accurately represent women at all. Voting wouldn't change at all since there are always just as many women as men, and urban lower & middle-class women would be bringing in (smaller) salaries through the entire course of the game. I don't know what effects it would have. *Or get killed in a civil war, die in an industrial accident, or just because men are more reckless when they're younger. Baronjutter posted:Could be easiest to just add some mild bonuses to productivity/science and so on and maybe upset conservative/religious pops? It's not like women didn't do anything back then, they worked bloody hard actually. It's not like their labour was wasted or lost or women were just sitting on nice chairs all day wishing they could participate in the world. If they aren't slaving for little or no pay around the house or farm someone else would. It's not a huge source of free labour, but it was inefficient and pointlessly segregated labour so a moderate bonus to pop productivity could be a simple way to model it. A Buttery Pastry fucked around with this message at 08:48 on Apr 14, 2013 |
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Apr 14, 2013 08:40
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Urban/Rural is already very well represented. Laborers, farmers and aristocrats are rural people, craftsmen, clerks, artisans, capitalists and bureaucrats are urban population. Clergy can be considered both. The suffragette movement gives a bonus already, and that's a decreased mobilization penalty, but it could be improved a little. I disagree with splitting women into a different pop, as the pops already represent family units and it would get nonsensical really fast. I think a good possibility to represent increasing status of women would be to add minor productivity, plurality and education bonuses with a small population growth malus, and enacting it would upset the conservatives somewhat, reactionaries a great deal and please liberals and socialists. Also make it gradual or something, with increasing levels of equality that make the changes to society more visible. Not enacting women's suffrage would avoid the changes I mentioned, while upsetting socialists and liberals, but keeping conservatives not-mad and reactionaries happy.
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Apr 14, 2013 11:02
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LP97S posted:I'm actually looking forward a bit to HoD despite my inability to do anything competent as an industrial power. I hear you here. In every APD game where I've gotten past 1880 with a state capitalist party in power, I'm never able to really skyrocket my industry like the AI seems to be able to. It's 1924 in my La Plata game and I've been at 8th place industrially for like 40 years. I'm building factories left and right (that are sitting empty) and encouraging craftsmen in all of my large provinces, but nothing. I'm keeping on top of foreign investment too, but the only countries where my factories have ever really stayed open outside of Europe are Canada and Cuba (their singular cigar factory has made them the #2 producer in the world). The rest of my sphere in useless South America can't keep a factory open to save their life. I'm tempted to try to get my socialist party to lose an election and get some laissez-faire in just to see what it does to my industrial score, but I have a feeling it'd still ruin me.
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Apr 14, 2013 12:01
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I've always liked interventionist the best, the perfect middle-way
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Apr 14, 2013 15:57
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A Buttery Pastry posted:I think the justification is that women are worse off economically, thus they skew towards the lower class compared to the population average. It's not necessarily true that the distribution is 50/50 though, the male/female ratio can be skewed quite a bit from that number, as men are more common at birth but women usually live longer. Men might also be more willing to emigrate*, depending on the situation in a country, which can produce pretty skewed ratios. (Latvia has a male/female ratio of 0.86, the UAE 2.19)
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Apr 14, 2013 16:04
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Star posted:I've always liked interventionist the best, the perfect middle-way My preference is State Capitalism early game, Interventionism in the middle game (so I can build the factories I want early on and not have to worry about some dumb decisions my capitalists are making in the early game).
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Apr 14, 2013 16:45
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Is it worth it to build factroys that have to import all of their input materials? I'm playing as the United Baltic Provinces in NNM, and my RGOs only produce agricultural products.
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Apr 14, 2013 18:45
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How am I supposed to use the elections to influence the party I want to get elected? I'm playing as South Africa, and I'm trying to get the Progressive Party out of office so that I can get State Capitalism instead, but no matter how hard I try the Progressive Party keeps getting reelected. I thought it was just a matter of picking the choices that aligned with the party you wanted, but it didn't seem to work. Also just changing the party myself, caused the elections to happen and then the progressives just kept getting voted back in. Are there any other drawbacks to constantly picking your party directly if you have the ability to do so?
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Apr 14, 2013 18:52
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Patter Song posted:My preference is State Capitalism early game, Interventionism in the middle game (so I can build the factories I want early on and not have to worry about some dumb decisions my capitalists are making in the early game). I make it so capitalists can upgrade but not build factories in state capitalism(because them being able to build but not upgrade is loving DUMB.), then stay state capitalist all game. YOU WON'T TOUCH MY PERFECT FACTORY DISTRIBUTIONS CAPIS, YOU HEAR THAT? Thern posted:Also just changing the party myself, caused the elections to happen and then the progressives just kept getting voted back in. Are there any other drawbacks to constantly picking your party directly if you have the ability to do so? You get a militancy hit every time you change parties, a flat rate plus more for the people who liked the old parties ideology, and a lower hit for people who like the new parties ideology.
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Apr 14, 2013 18:55
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Farecoal posted:Is it worth it to build factroys that have to import all of their input materials? I'm playing as the United Baltic Provinces in NNM, and my RGOs only produce agricultural products. Only if you're absolutely certain that you'll be able to get enough of those inputs to keep your factories running - really high prestige or being in the same sphere as the inputs will do the trick. Otherwise you run the risk of not being able to actually buy what you need.
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Apr 14, 2013 19:52
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Thern posted:How am I supposed to use the elections to influence the party I want to get elected? I'm playing as South Africa, and I'm trying to get the Progressive Party out of office so that I can get State Capitalism instead, but no matter how hard I try the Progressive Party keeps getting reelected. I thought it was just a matter of picking the choices that aligned with the party you wanted, but it didn't seem to work. Also note which political reforms you have; some will give the ruling party a greater chance of being reelected.
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Apr 14, 2013 21:37
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Farecoal posted:Is it worth it to build factroys that have to import all of their input materials? I'm playing as the United Baltic Provinces in NNM, and my RGOs only produce agricultural products. Only way to be sure of getting your party in office is to *e* Is it possible to mod in two parties of the same faction but with different policies?
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Apr 14, 2013 21:40
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Yes, in fact, several nations already have that in the base game.
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Apr 14, 2013 21:44
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Wolfgang Pauli posted:Fair points. In the game as it is, though, there is always an equal parity, so I still don't get the skewed vote distribution. Let's say men are divided like this (lower:middle:upper): 60:30:10 and women like this: 75:20:5 The average of the two comes out like this: 67.5:25:7.5 Which in percentages compared to men alone comes out to: 112.5%:83.3%:75% Which you would use a modifier that weighed votes +12.5% for the lower class, -16.7% for the middle class and -25% for the upper class to accomplish, if you weren't going to model the women as separate pops.
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Apr 14, 2013 22:55
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Before I tried out Dr. Sunshine's Divided States mod, I thought I'd sit down and force myself to do a proper game as an unciv: I tend to get bored fast but I told myself I'd do it this time. It actually was a lot of fun: I started as Gonder in 1836, and was a great power for much of the late 1800s and early 1900s. Sadly my side lost a Great War, and me and France never recovered from that, but still I think I did well. Germany crushed France into bits during WWI because France was in the middle of a civil war with socialists, so Mega-Germany and Austria dominated main land Europe. England then went fascist after losing for reasons I'm not sure on, and I went fascist because I was also playing an evil bastard game where I just make Ethiopia the most terrifying nation on Earth. By the end of the game, 10% of my population was slaves, the most important issue to my people was Jingoism, and every time I had an option to lower the population of my colonial holdings, like via smallpox outbreaks I did. It went from an absolute monarchy directly to fascism with no remotely democratic government ever.   It was a lot of fun. Early game kinda sucked but even with really low literacy I still managed to westernize fast enough to get a colonial empire off the ground.
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Apr 14, 2013 23:36
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Wolfgang Pauli posted:No. Unless you've sphered a nation that's providing the RGOs, you'll be struggling just to keep the drat things solvent. It's even less worth it once HoD launches. This is, of course, assuming you're in it for the money. If it's a barrel factroy or something then you'll just have to subsidize and bear the costs. I'm really in it for the industrial score, but even the cores that I have on Lithuania and East Prussia don't have any iron/coal/non-food RGOs. Oh well, guess I'll bite the bullet and just subsidize. How high should your tariffs be if you want to protect your industry from ~foreign~ competition? I have a feeling 100% is a bit much. And one more question. If I mod in new parties for United Baltic Provinces, will they show up in my save game or will I have to start a new one? DrProsek posted:Before I tried out Dr. Sunshine's Divided States mod, I thought I'd sit down and force myself to do a proper game as an unciv Are you using a mod that changes names based on governments? I've seen Austria go fascist in PDM but they were still just called Austria. Farecoal fucked around with this message at 02:44 on Apr 15, 2013 |
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Apr 14, 2013 23:58
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Farecoal posted:Are you using a mod that changes names based on governments? I've seen Austria go fascist in PDM but they were still just called Austria. Ooh, yeah forgot to mention: NNM with the GSG minimod. It called Fascist Austria the Republic of Austria though. E: Although looking at it again, it seems A-H stayed a monarchy in my game. I thought they went communist or something, but I may have been thinking of another game.
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Apr 15, 2013 00:11
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Just started a NNM game as a released Zanzibar. Slavery is banned from the outset 
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Apr 15, 2013 00:42
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Wolfgang Pauli posted:Just started a NNM game as a released Zanzibar. Slavery is banned from the outset Maybe it's like in UK where you just redefine what slavery means
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Apr 15, 2013 00:43
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DrProsek posted:Ooh, yeah forgot to mention: NNM with the GSG minimod. It called Fascist Austria the Republic of Austria though. Oh, woops, didn't look carefully and thought fascist Britain was Austria. Do you have a link to that GSG mod.
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Apr 15, 2013 01:10
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DrProsek posted:Before I tried out Dr. Sunshine's Divided States mod, I thought I'd sit down and force myself to do a proper game as an unciv: I tend to get bored fast but I told myself I'd do it this time. It actually was a lot of fun: I started as Gonder in 1836, and was a great power for much of the late 1800s and early 1900s. Sadly my side lost a Great War, and me and France never recovered from that, but still I think I did well. How did Canada end up as a GP? Also, how is it still a Dominion of the British crown if Great Britain overthrew the monarchy and went Fascist? Did the Royal Family flee to Canada and set up a court-in-exile?
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Apr 15, 2013 02:11
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I can't figure out how to actually turn slavery back on, so gently caress it. Livingstone got his wish 50 years before he even had it, I guess. I also checked out where I intend to expand and realized that the entire Congo Basin is incredibly poor and produces hardly anything except fruit and grain. Since ivory isn't a resource, all you get are a couple provinces producing Tropical Wood. Rwanda-Burundi-Buganda are far better targets since they're all cotton and coffee.
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Apr 15, 2013 02:11
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DrProsek posted:Before I tried out Dr. Sunshine's Divided States mod, I thought I'd sit down and force myself to do a proper game as an unciv: I tend to get bored fast but I told myself I'd do it this time. It actually was a lot of fun: I started as Gonder in 1836, and was a great power for much of the late 1800s and early 1900s. Sadly my side lost a Great War, and me and France never recovered from that, but still I think I did well. Playing uncivs will be so much better with the new westernization and ticking warscore. How did you make such an amazing Ethiopia? Did you just get a game where no one bothered to sphere the middle east after the Ottomans lost GP status? I can only imagine that your expansion path would bring you into conflict with Britain and Russia eventually, or did Russia somehow lose GP status early? Thern posted:How am I supposed to use the elections to influence the party I want to get elected? I'm playing as South Africa, and I'm trying to get the Progressive Party out of office so that I can get State Capitalism instead, but no matter how hard I try the Progressive Party keeps getting reelected. I thought it was just a matter of picking the choices that aligned with the party you wanted, but it didn't seem to work. Change your upper house to reactionary, roll back vote franchise to "Only Landed", and crush anyone who doesn't like it. After that, the voters will generally keep your government conservative/reactionary seeing as you have disenfranchised most everyone who would vote otherwise. You can try to persuade your population to agree with those policies over time so you can give them back the vote if you want but until then you are going to likely have to deal with angry suffrage movements from time to time. Alternatively, go full Reactionary roll back everything everywhere and tell your POPs to gently caress themselves. It's not really necessary to keep State Capitalism all the time though. I find the micromanagement allowed by state capitalism is most useful earlier on when you are trying to get your industrial base off the ground. Once the core factories are in place you can function within the bounds of interventionism. With interventionism you can close factories and cancel new ones being built, which allows you to set the focus in a state for whatever factory you want and cancel construction until the stupid capitalists build the one you want. It's a little annoying sometimes and getting a newly available industry off the ground is a pain in the rear end. Capitalists don't like building multiples of the same factories in different states at the same time, no matter how extreme the demand. This can necessitate more brief swaps to state capitalism in order to bring a new factory type online quickly. It's really god drat annoying to see something like "Electric Gear supply 33 demand 800" while your capitalists ardently refuse to build more than one new Electric Gear factory at a time. Hopefully this is something that HOD fixes. After that, you can simply turn off subsidies, set the labor focus on whatever factories you care about and manually expand critical industries manually as quickly as is possible. Sure, the capitalists will randomly build factories for stupid things that will likely fail instantly without subsidy but it doesn't hurt anything and you can just clean out their closed/barely functional factories whenever you need room. Tomn posted:Well, yeah, I know that, I was asking whether keeping taxes low so that pops can buy more things to stimulate demand was an effective tactic, as opposed to Nuclearmonkee's proposal of "tax them into space and then tax them into the dirt" Tax strategy changes over the course of a game. Early, taxing the poor into near starvation (just enough so your craftsmen can meet their basic needs) while leaving the rich untaxed is great for getting money into the hands of your capitalists so they can do things. Later, once you have industrialized and have a nice base of rich capitalists, you can flip it around and heavily tax the the capitalists while easing up on the poor to stimulate demand. I always leave taxes for the middle at least low enough so that my bureaucrats and clerks don't demote while keeping pressure on the artisans to change into something useful. Later on I am much nicer to my poors. Once cars, phones and radios are a thing the lower class can generate extreme amounts of demand for those high value items. Only have the 2nd level of the tax efficiency tree researched in these and my total tax efficiency is 50.6%  
Nuclearmonkee fucked around with this message at 02:37 on Apr 15, 2013 |
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Apr 15, 2013 02:24
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Nuclearmonkee posted:Playing uncivs will be so much better with the new westernization and ticking warscore. Wait, there's new westernization? Can someone give me a link to this, I must have missed it and Google's not turning much up. Westernization is one of those things that always felt it needed tweaking, both in the old vanilla system and the new AHD one (though I will give them credit that AHD's felt a lot more natural and interactive, since you modernized by deciding to buy Western weapons, hire Western advisors, etc, instead of just working to meet a bizarre, arbitrary list of requirements). Or do you just mean the smaller tweaks like this, from the beta AAR: quote:Another big change of the expansion, there's a base Tactics level now – armies of uncivs (or rebels!) no longer fight at 0% tactics against you, the base is 150%, and is only fractionally improved by technology, meaning their losses won't be as high as they used to be, and my losses will be equally higher – especially if I attack a strong leader of theirs in tough terrain.  Actually, that might be kinda nice. The old rebel system reminded me a lot of Empire: Total War, in that rebels were so weak that the only way they could win was if the player actively assisted them by doing poo poo like disbanding the military right after they revolted. A game where things get out of your control and you're punished by popular overthrow putting in a fascist government would be more fun and interesting than being punished by chasing around a bunch of rebels until you finally kill them all.
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Apr 15, 2013 02:52
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WeaponGradeSadness posted:Wait, there's new westernization? Can someone give me a link to this, I must have missed it and Google's not turning much up. Westernization is one of those things that always felt it needed tweaking, both in the old vanilla system and the new AHD one (though I will give them credit that AHD's felt a lot more natural and interactive, since you modernized by deciding to buy Western weapons, hire Western advisors, etc, instead of just working to meet a bizarre, arbitrary list of requirements). Supposedly it's no longer the best idea to save points until you can fully westernize, and as you mention uncivs will be generally stronger and not utterly defenseless until that magical day that they westernize fully. Combine with a ticking warscore and it will actually be feasible to kick out Great Britain and co without occupying the home isles.
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Apr 15, 2013 02:59
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Isn't the new unciv mechanic that you gain civ points by conquest? Or was that in AHD?
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Apr 15, 2013 03:01
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Farecoal posted:Oh, woops, didn't look carefully and thought fascist Britain was Austria. Do you have a link to that GSG mod. Here's where you can get the GSG mod http://www.mediafire.com/grandstrategygeneral#zhw89414aid3b. It's kinda dumb but it adds one or two cool things I like such as refusing Manifest Destiny as Mexico that I keep it. Unrelated: I just tool a look at the NNM and either I downloaded an old version somehow or my install is really borked somehow. The Taiping rebellion never fires because Nanjing doesn't have a Taiping core, the bookmark for the Civil War start is missing, and for some reason, Tibet has cores in Thrace (Edirne and Kirklareli). These are pretty easy to fix or not big problems, but it's just really strange that the mod is having issues I haven't seen with it before. I'm sure this is the latest 1.6 version for AHD so I'm just at a loss. Mister Bates posted:How did Canada end up as a GP? Also, how is it still a Dominion of the British crown if Great Britain overthrew the monarchy and went Fascist? Did the Royal Family flee to Canada and set up a court-in-exile? They set up a court in exile, and did everything they could to hide their English accents and pretend they had nothing to do with the fascist mess that invaded them for their African holdings  Russia sold Alaska to Britain, so Canada got it eventually, and when France lost the Great War, Canada got most of their African holdings, giving them what they needed to be a GP I guess.Nuclearmonkee posted:Playing uncivs will be so much better with the new westernization and ticking warscore. How did you make such an amazing Ethiopia? Did you just get a game where no one bothered to sphere the middle east after the Ottomans lost GP status? I can only imagine that your expansion path would bring you into conflict with Britain and Russia eventually, or did Russia somehow lose GP status early? Yeah, I eventually had to start beating up Egypt for stuff like humiliating them because I didn't have anything else to do, it would be nice to beat them up to make westernization faster. You can kinda see my policy regarding Britain by looking at southern Arabia: avoid at all costs, keep relations high, and then ally. Even at the cost of pretty borders . And yeah you guessed right; the Ottomans, as I mentioned, collapsed and went through about 4 regime changes in 10 years, and Russia kept collapsing to Jacobins. By the time I steamrolled through Arabia, nobody had any sphere there other than the nations that start friendly with Britain, which I avoided like the plague. Basically I sat at 200 relations with Britain at all times and maintained an alliance I had with them when I was in their sphere as an unciv.
burnishedfume fucked around with this message at 03:07 on Apr 15, 2013 |
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Apr 15, 2013 03:04
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DrProsek posted:Unrelated: I just tool a look at the NNM and either I downloaded an old version somehow or my install is really borked somehow. The Taiping rebellion never fires because Nanjing doesn't have a Taiping core, the bookmark for the Civil War start is missing, and for some reason, Tibet has cores in Thrace (Edirne and Kirklareli). These are pretty easy to fix or not big problems, but it's just really strange that the mod is having issues I haven't seen with it before. I'm sure this is the latest 1.6 version for AHD so I'm just at a loss. I've seen a few treaty_of_nanking_desc style events myself.
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Apr 15, 2013 03:09
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DrProsek posted:Unrelated: I just tool a look at the NNM and either I downloaded an old version somehow or my install is really borked somehow. The Taiping rebellion never fires because Nanjing doesn't have a Taiping core, the bookmark for the Civil War start is missing, and for some reason, Tibet has cores in Thrace (Edirne and Kirklareli). These are pretty easy to fix or not big problems, but it's just really strange that the mod is having issues I haven't seen with it before. I'm sure this is the latest 1.6 version for AHD so I'm just at a loss. Yeah, I installed it and it hosed everything up, somehow. I no longer get tooltips when I hover over armies so I can't tell where armies are going and when they'll arrive, which makes chasing enemies a huge pain in the rear end, and sometimes armies will project this big dumb field around them that the game decides is the army itself, so that I can't click on the province they're standing in and sometimes the provinces around them because the game interprets that as clicking on the army itself. The problems carry over to the base game, too, so I'm reinstalling it and AHD. Everything worked fine until I downloaded NNM, so I don't know what the hell went wrong.
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Apr 15, 2013 03:39
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So... in V2 is the AI not affected by attrition in their own provinces? I decided to screw around with a civilized Korea, and got in a war with China over Manchuria in about 1845. They piled over 400,000 troops into a border province and just... parked them there. As far as I could tell they weren't suffering any casualties from attrition. Whereas if I put more than 35,000 troops in my own province they die like flies.
Fintilgin fucked around with this message at 04:37 on Apr 15, 2013 |
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Apr 15, 2013 04:34
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If I mod in new parties for United Baltic Provinces, will they show up in my save game or will I have to start a new one? What about decisions?
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Apr 15, 2013 04:44
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Is HOD actually going to be available on steam tuesday morning? I'm thinking of calling in sick; but I want to be sure that its really out.
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Apr 15, 2013 04:47
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Baloogan posted:Is HOD actually going to be available on steam tuesday morning? I'm thinking of calling in sick; but I want to be sure that its really out. I wouldn't bet on it. March of the Eagles didn't unlock on Steam for me until about 2 PM (central US time) on release day. Not to mention the fact that Paradox pushed the release of AHD back a week the day before it was supposed to come out. The first is a lot more likely to happen, though. I'm getting it on Amazon to avoid that, Amazon direct downloads unlock midnight the day of. That works out to be 2 AM where I am, but that's still better than mid-afternoon. Punished Chuck fucked around with this message at 06:30 on Apr 15, 2013 |
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Apr 15, 2013 04:58
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Playing NNM and I do kinda miss the economics from APD. All of the vanilla factories are worthless and none of the RGOs in Africa make any god drat sense. I kinda don't even want to continue this Zanzibar game. I just westernized and there's really nothing to do. I'm going to easily win the Scramble and get practically every empty province worth having, but there's not much point to it. I'd have a bunch of Coffee and Cotton and a touch of Tea and Tobacco, but nothing I can actually use to industrialize with. I mean, at best I get a few provinces worth of Tropical Lumber. Most of Africa is fruit and grain and cattle, and I don't even have any iron or coal to turn that into finished goods.WeaponGradeSadness posted:Wait, there's new westernization? Can someone give me a link to this, I must have missed it and Google's not turning much up. Westernization is one of those things that always felt it needed tweaking, both in the old vanilla system and the new AHD one (though I will give them credit that AHD's felt a lot more natural and interactive, since you modernized by deciding to buy Western weapons, hire Western advisors, etc, instead of just working to meet a bizarre, arbitrary list of requirements).
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Apr 15, 2013 05:32
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