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Dunno, we've seen some popular modern shooters based around you having super powers. Why not make the player's super power be "goes real fast" instead of bullet time or super-nano-suits or whatever. Then you can have your vaguely realistic setting with fancy next-gen graphics and dumb, elaborate plots while also having fast, twitchy, maneuver-based gameplay.
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Apr 14, 2013 20:30
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Are there any really good custom map packs for Quake or Quake 2? Are the expansions to Quake any good?
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Apr 14, 2013 20:31
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Cream_Filling posted:Dunno, we've seen some popular modern shooters based around you having super powers. Why not make the player's super power be "goes real fast" instead of bullet time or super-nano-suits or whatever. Then you can have your vaguely realistic setting with fancy next-gen graphics and dumb, elaborate plots while also having fast, twitchy, maneuver-based gameplay. The nanosuit did let you go real fast in Crysis 1. I abused the poo poo out of that power and it worked really well(hard difficulty). They made it way lamer in the later games by just turning it into sprint, probably because everyone just decided to play Crysis 1 in the most boring possible way and only use cloaking.
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Apr 14, 2013 20:33
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Fergus Mac Roich posted:I never played Nexuiz so I don't know the exact reasons why, but nobody played that game. Dead on arrival. Not exactly the most promising sign for possible developers of that type of game.
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Apr 14, 2013 20:34
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Korendian Leader posted:Because it was abysmal in almost every regard. Was the actual gameplay lovely? I decided not to get it because it looked like the graphical effects would get really annoying, even for a huge sucker for that kind of thing like myself.
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Apr 14, 2013 20:35
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I wouldn't say it was lovely, just aggressively mediocre.
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Apr 14, 2013 20:42
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Fergus Mac Roich posted:
Nexuiz had the same issue UT3 did, which was making a console-oriented shooter riding on the name of an earlier hardcore PC shooter. The people that the name meant anything to hated the way it played, nobody else ever even heard of it. Quake Live at launch had a retarded pricing system and no real reason to pay for it, since the free map pool was plenty big. Then they started axing the number of maps you got without paying in a desperate bid to make some money. They now have a glorified demo and the same retarded pricing system which just killed the free player base. These games had glaring flaws and their failures were more or less inevitable. It's a shame that because of it other devs might be scared of trying to make a new arena shooter. Bloodmobile fucked around with this message at 20:44 on Apr 14, 2013 |
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Apr 14, 2013 20:42
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The real shame of Nexiuz is the free version from two or three years ago is really good. The models were easy to pick out, the guns were a lot of fun to use, and if you were any good at bunnyhopping you could get going really fast. Then they tried to monetize the game and it went to poo poo 
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Apr 14, 2013 21:23
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Geight posted:Are there any really good custom map packs for Quake or Quake 2? Are the expansions to Quake any good? I played the expansions a while back and Armagon is quite good. The second one (Scourge of Infinity? I think?) is alright but overall pretty blah and comically predictable for the most part. I didn't get much into custom levels because loading maps for Quake is still pretty goddamn complicated compared to dragging wads into some ZDoom launcher.
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Apr 14, 2013 21:27
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bbcisdabomb posted:The real shame of Nexiuz is the free version from two or three years ago is really good. The models were easy to pick out, the guns were a lot of fun to use, and if you were any good at bunnyhopping you could get going really fast. To be fair the Nexiuz that's out now is made by a completely different team after THQ bought the license. I have no idea how that deal game into existence. For the next "real" Nexiuz check out the also terribly named Xonotic which is being made by some of the original Nexiuz people.
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Apr 14, 2013 21:28
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Fergus Mac Roich posted:The nanosuit did let you go real fast in Crysis 1. I abused the poo poo out of that power and it worked really well(hard difficulty). They made it way lamer in the later games by just turning it into sprint, probably because everyone just decided to play Crysis 1 in the most boring possible way and only use cloaking. I hate to be one of those PC game supremacy types of people, but thinking about it again, the slowing of shooter games could definitely also be attributed to the rise of the controller and consoles over mouse and keyboard.
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Apr 14, 2013 21:28
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Cream_Filling posted:I hate to be one of those PC game supremacy types of people, but thinking about it again, the slowing of shooter games could definitely also be attributed to the rise of the controller and consoles over mouse and keyboard. going beyond this you also have to take into account the system requirements they have to work with when making games for consoles, you'll have to end up cutting some things to save for performance since Console gamers can't exactly outfit their consoles with new hardware if the game just naturally runs like crap
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Apr 14, 2013 21:48
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Cream_Filling posted:I hate to be one of those PC game supremacy types of people, but thinking about it again, the slowing of shooter games could definitely also be attributed to the rise of the controller and consoles over mouse and keyboard. You shouldn't have to excuse yourself, it's pretty non-controversial that gamepads force lots of restrictions on what you can do in an FPS game (verticality, for one).
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Apr 14, 2013 21:52
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NoodleBox posted:going beyond this you also have to take into account the system requirements they have to work with when making games for consoles, you'll have to end up cutting some things to save for performance since Console gamers can't exactly outfit their consoles with new hardware if the game just naturally runs like crap But how would this effect the prevalence of 'old-school' shooters? With the controller thing, the argument is that the controller is inherently much slower to aim or turn than KB+M, which makes it hard to design gameplay around the player zipping around fast and maneuvering a lot, since the large disparities in input performance mean that gameplay that works for one will either be too fast or too slow for the other without major rebalancing or redesign. Most old-school shooters were pretty low-frills otherwise. Clearly the solution is to have a game where shooting is automatic, and all you do is steer around. KB+M on PC, twin sticks tank style on console.
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Apr 14, 2013 21:55
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Fallom posted:You shouldn't have to excuse yourself, it's pretty non-controversial that gamepads force lots of restrictions on what you can do in an FPS game (verticality, for one). True, but lets not revise history here, Doom and Quake were both designed with a keyboard or joystick (or a mouse being operated like a joystick) in mind. You can do verticality just fine on any modern console controller, you really just cannot demand quite as much accuracy in a fast time frame. Fast paced modern shooters compensate for this in 2 ways, first people don't move as fast as they do in Quake or Doom, and second, they employ aim assistance (doom and quake also had this for similar reasons). Yodzilla posted:To be fair the Nexiuz that's out now is made by a completely different team after THQ bought the license. I have no idea how that deal game into existence. For the next "real" Nexiuz check out the also terribly named Xonotic which is being made by some of the original Nexiuz people. I have the PC version of the new Nexuiz and it isn't that console-centric. It just has the same problem that the original had in that a multiplayer-only tourney deathmatch game lives and dies by its playerbase, and it never got enough of a playerbase to thrive. Also its weapons are criminally boring, like even people who hate gunporn would prefer the "the only weapons are 27 different pistols" to Nexuiz's boring rear end weapons. Remember how many of the weapons in quake 3 are really dull (read everything that isn't the rocket launcher)? Well its like that but even the Rocket Launcher is dull.
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Apr 14, 2013 22:10
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CowboyAndy posted:Sorry! I don't know of many folks on the Duke community, except for Mikko, and that's only because of MSDN. I'll always prefer Duke to Doom, but I agree completey that Doom's monsters all filled a niche whereas Duke's enemies didn't feel as versatile (despite being more complex in what they could do) A cyberdemon still to this day makes me think twice about fighting it whereas Duke's bosses are pretty routine. Having said that, I think that the highest quality Duke maps beat the highest quality Doom ones easily (It's the same reason why Blood looks amazing, the palette for that isn't hugely varied but it creates such a rich atmosphere)
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Apr 14, 2013 22:20
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Red_Mage posted:Remember how many of the weapons in quake 3 are really dull (read everything that isn't the rocket launcher)?
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Apr 14, 2013 22:24
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Korendian Leader posted:No? All the weapons in quake 3 have a clearly delineated utility and hit hard. I'd argue that the guns in the unreal series are far duller. Unreal weapons are awesome sorry. Flak cannon is a shotgun and a grenade launcher that you can use to kill people behind corners with the sharpnel, the ASMD is a railgun that has a big AOE if you hit the secondary fire, the minigun is awesome... They are more varied and have more utilities thanks to their secondary fire modes.
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Apr 14, 2013 22:29
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Korendian Leader posted:No? All the weapons in quake 3 have a clearly delineated utility and hit hard. I'd argue that the guns in the unreal series are far duller. IDK, maybe its just me. I played pretty fair amounts of both, and I struggle to remember all the quake 3 weapons and what they did, but I can remember all the UT99 weapons (by function at least) with ease because they were so distinctive. I mean granted I was poo poo with the Bio-Gun and it was never clear to me when to use the green laser gun (I forget the name, it later became the linkgun) vs the minigun, but ricocheting razordiscs off of walls, compensating for the travel time of the flak projectiles, and using the ASMD to blow up its own alt fire in a makeshift grenade all made the weapons in UT99 really pop. Nothing in Nexuiz pops like that, its all very forgettable. The only really standout thing about Nexuiz was they basically had rotating mutators throughout each round. Sometimes you would get to pick, that was kind of neat, but it didn't make up for the boring weaponry and the fact that finding more than 4 people to play with was a chore.
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Apr 14, 2013 22:31
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HARD RESET! is a game I enjoyed a fair amount. HARD RESET! also sucked a whole bunch in a lot of ways. Let's talk about HARD RESET! Painkiller is a great game. I love Painkiller. It's got it all. The weapons are hella crazy. Every one of them has at least two firing modes and you can combine them usually in crazy ways. The shotgun is pretty basic, you can freeze dudes then smash them with primary fire. The stake gun is just raw. It shoots stakes, it shoots nades, you can shoot a nade with a stake, it becomes a rocket, that's cool. Why bother with that when you already have a rocket launcher? Shut up, it's cooler. Speaking of the rocket launcher, its alternate fire is a chaingun. By combining the two firing modes you can shoot guys with bullets then shoot them with rockets. That's innovation. The enemy catalogue is one HELL of a catalogue. They went through the dictionary and straight up just put evil in front of every noun. Evil zombie, evil skeleton, evil biker, evil sadomasochist, evil ninja, evil amputee, evil mentally ill man, all standard fare till you get to evil saracen, evil pillowcase child, evil pinochio, evil suicidal wall-street banker, evil fat feet necklace man, evil jumping papier-mache crab, etc etc. Wondering where all the evil nouns that aren't animate went? They're what the levels are made out of, buddy. Every one of those bricks holds extremely poor opinions about minorities and healthcare. Enemy variety is extremely high is what I am saying. And they all explode into blood when you shoot them and don't have way too much health. The levels are basically as varied as the enemies. There's jail, an opera house, wall street, a pirate zombie mine, a science lab, a haunted orphanage, persia, a forest nobody likes to talk about. It's rad. You won't get bored. They're pretty spacious and cool. There are secrets which personally i found extremely annoying to get as you have to gently caress about with the game physics, but other than that the levels pull off cool and creepy and set a tone pretty well and even though they don't follow on from eachother in any sort of sense it's fun and exciting to see what crazy poo poo comes next. The music is great, it's all enthusiastic metal, much in the tradition of ye olde Doom. If you're not pumped to shoot ninjas in the snow using electric shurikens you probably have serious mental problems, but this music will provide the pumpage and the pulse-poundage that your broken mind cannot. The story sucks, nobody cares. Max payne is in hell struggling against some kind of shotgun-resistant LGBT angel so he can save his wife or that sexy lady from all those romantic era paintings where the only thing they can make clothes out of is damp gossamer. Also there are challenges that net you pokemon cards that give you cool powers that just totally trivialise the bosses. The challenges add an extra level of fun and (appropriately) challenge to the game I guess depending on which one you get, some suck like NEVER COLLECT A SINGLE SOUL but some are fun, like completing a whole level with a certain weapon. It's a cool game, pretty much the last good retro shooter, you have already played it but if you haven't (and you have) you should play it now.
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Apr 14, 2013 22:32
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Most of UT's weapons are insanely spammy apart from the shock rifle, which in exchange is brutally powerful if the player can hit a fairly slow, linearly moving projectile with a hitscan weapon (read : very easy to do). All most of the secondary fire-modes do is really conflate weapon roles or add more stupid wackiness. It's a bit of silly spammy fun but an elegant deathmatching game it ain't.
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Apr 14, 2013 22:34
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On the other hand UT did feature one of the most fun guns to use in any game I've played since: The Flak Cannon. While a lot of weapons may be spammy they also tend to be an absolute blast to use.
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Apr 14, 2013 22:37
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FirstPersonShitter posted:Let's talk about HARD RESET!  I guess I'm missing the joke or something.I always thought Painkiller was just okay. It doesn't do anything particularly well but it manages to be consistently challenging throughout. I think it's cool that the hardest difficulty gives you a different, albeit "fake" ending.
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Apr 14, 2013 22:37
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ExMortis posted:I played the expansions a while back and Armagon is quite good. The second one (Scourge of Infinity? I think?) is alright but overall pretty blah and comically predictable for the most part. I didn't get much into custom levels because loading maps for Quake is still pretty goddamn complicated compared to dragging wads into some ZDoom launcher. For custom maps there's tons here, and you can use Quake Injector if you don't want to mess around with the console. Also Honey by czg is amazing and feels completely different from id's stuff, definitely check that one out. e: also the secret to Hard Reset was to just skip the dumb levels and play the Arena mode. Once you tossed all the weapons and enemies into one big room it got a hell of a lot more fun. tips fucked around with this message at 23:04 on Apr 14, 2013 |
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Apr 14, 2013 22:47
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Red_Mage posted:I struggle to remember all the quake 3 weapons and what they did The machine gun fires bullets rapidly. The shotgun fires buckshot, which is effective at short range but loses effectiveness the further out you go. The plasma gun shoots plasma. The lightning gun shoots lightning. The grenade launcher shoots grenades. The rocket launcher shoots rockets. The railgun uses magnetic rails (?) to shoot a high-power hitscan slug towards your foe. The BFG is a big gun which fires plasma. danbo fucked around with this message at 23:06 on Apr 14, 2013 |
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Apr 14, 2013 23:03
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Tiger Schwert posted:The machine gun fires bullets rapidly. The BFG is sort of a rapid-fire hitscan rocket launcher. The lightning gun is basically identical to the one in Quake 1, except I think it did knockback.
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Apr 14, 2013 23:06
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Red_Mage posted:You can do verticality just fine on any modern console controller No, not really. Quick response along the Y axis is a requirement that went out the window with dual analog sticks. quote:you really just cannot demand quite as much accuracy in a fast time frame. Yeah, ok.
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Apr 14, 2013 23:11
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Geight posted:Are there any really good custom map packs for Quake or Quake 2? Are the expansions to Quake any good? Many many for Quake. Not sure about Quake 2, but probably at least some? Cf. Quake, you can look back through my post history in this thread (I think it was this incarnation of the thread?) and/or just go to quaddicted.com and look through their SP map archive. You can sort by rating and stuff. Quaddicted has almost everything listed, but doesn't have reviews for everything... I think there are a few other active Quake map review sites like http://taw.duke4.net/category/quake/ if you want a second opinion on things. And there are the preserved corpses of old review sites like http://www.electricescape.com/etherealhell/reviews/quake.php , http://www.quakewiki.net/archives/retroquake.planetquake.gamespy.com/blog/index2070.html?cat=65 , http://www.quaddicted.com/webarchive/teamshambler.planetquake.gamespy.com/ , and http://www.quakewiki.net/archives/underworld/quakereviews.html New releases tend to be posted at http://www.celephais.net/board/forum.php ExMortis posted:I didn't get much into custom levels because loading maps for Quake is still pretty goddamn complicated compared to dragging wads into some ZDoom launcher. https://www.quaddicted.com/tools/quake_injector my friend. Edit: some folks also use MiniQL, haven't tried that myself though. http://quakeone.com/forums/quake-talk/quake-central/5465-yet-another-quake-launcher.html (un-broken download link is https://github.com/badsector/miniql/downloads ) Another edit: I went ahead and tried MiniQL. It's a nice straightforward launcher. Unlike Quake Injector it doesn't download and install stuff from the interwebs; it just lets you pick among the mods and maps that you currently have. JLaw fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Apr 14, 2013 |
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Apr 14, 2013 23:12
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Red_Mage posted:You can do verticality just fine on any modern console controller, you really just cannot demand quite as much accuracy in a fast time frame. Fast paced modern shooters compensate for this in 2 ways, first people don't move as fast as they do in Quake or Doom, and second, they employ aim assistance (doom and quake also had this for similar reasons). For similar reasons? Unless I'm misunderstanding, I have to disagree. With Doom, auto-aim existed because you couldn't look up/down at all. The game had to do Y-axis aiming for the player. Even in subsequent "2.5D" games like Blood or Duke3D, Y-axis aiming was far from perfect, causing the player's perspective to stretch and distort. And despite the fact that Quake was a "3D" FPS, its retention of auto-aim was a largely a holdover from previous FPS games--as you're probably aware, its default controls treated the mouse/joystick for "forward" and "backward" locomotion, rather than mouselook. id expected players to play Quake exactly like previous FPS games, and for the most part they did (although this is where many older FPS players appear to have started learning "WASD" controls). The presence of auto-aim really doesn't have anything to do with developers thinking joysticks (or trackballs, or whatever other controls were popular in the mid-90's) aren't good tools at y-axis aiming. Rather, popular engines simply weren't good at doing that sort of thing, and even when they were, it took a while for developers and the community to make the transition to mouselook.
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Apr 14, 2013 23:59
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Johnny Law posted:Many many for Quake. Not sure about Quake 2, but probably at least some? Cool stuff, thanks!
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Apr 15, 2013 00:00
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For what it's worth, I played the Shootmania beta, and it seems to scratch that itch for fast-paced deathmatch gameplay. It's from the makers of Trackmania, which means that (with a bit of effort) anyone can make their own half-decent multiplayer deathmatch arena. As for the gameplay, it's all about running fast, dodging enemy fire at high speed, and using ramps and jump-pads to quickly get from Point A to Point Z via Points the-rest-of-the-alphabet. That said, I only played the beta and wasn't keen on the "capture points" mode, but the elimination deathmatch was fun. I especially like the way the spectator camera is automatic and only zooms out as far as it needs to view all active players. So it starts out covering the whole arena, but ends up zooming in on the last two players and their frantic struggle to win the round.
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Apr 15, 2013 00:17
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Jblade posted:It's cool don't worry - there's not many of us left compared to Doom's community so it happens. I don't miss the gameplay dynamics of Duke combat but every now and then I find myself wishing there was something more in the vein of Duke's interactive environments when playing some Doom levels.
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Apr 15, 2013 03:28
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I turned the faucets on in every sink and tub I found in Bioshock Infinite. Flushed a bunch of toilets too because why the hell not.
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Apr 15, 2013 04:59
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I reached in the toilet and pulled out a poop and then I wrote on the whiteboard with the poop and generally acted silly in DNF.
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Apr 15, 2013 06:21
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Speaking of UT, does anyone play UT99 anymore or is it just of hell ghetto of dm-animemariokart servers with 12 mutators?
tips fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Mar 1, 2014 |
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Apr 15, 2013 14:58
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UT99's arsenal is better because of how crazy and destructive it is compared to Quake 3. A rocket launcher that can fire up to six rockets at once isn't as balanced as Q3's rocket launcher, but it is a hell of a lot more fun and satisfying to watch some bastard get obliterated by four rockets hitting them at once than a single rocket that makes them fly a few inches after they die.
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Apr 15, 2013 15:21
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Speaking of Rise of the Triad and arena shooters, Interceptor uploaded some multiplayer gameplay footage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWhsZAhfyqc The second match has an awesome rendition of Run Like Smeg. Also, all that rocket launcher fire! 
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Apr 15, 2013 17:57
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Mercury Crusader posted:Speaking of Rise of the Triad and arena shooters, Interceptor uploaded some multiplayer gameplay footage: That right there looks like a great example of what a "modern retro" FPS game should look like. Lots of speed, fun to use weapons with satisfying animations, gnarly gore,  EXPLOSIONS, and  music.
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Apr 15, 2013 18:32
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Mercury Crusader posted:Speaking of Rise of the Triad and arena shooters, Interceptor uploaded some multiplayer gameplay footage: Hot poo poo! I really hope this takes off, I want a resurgence of this kind of gameplay.
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Apr 15, 2013 18:33
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I completely forgot about this, it looks pretty great!
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