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OBi posted:Just because they're very evil things doesn't mean they're corrupted by nemesis, right? There are probably any number of evil nasty things that would still oppose the outsiders because they like the current system more than whatever the outsiders would implement. Like, say Mab or Nick, yes.
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Apr 11, 2013 23:50
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404GoonNotFound posted:Does she pronounce it "Miffany"? The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > The Book Barn > The Dresden Files: Myfanwy Chat
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Apr 12, 2013 03:47
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Do we need a non-Dresden urban fantasy thread? I'm honestly not a big fan of it in general, and I haven't read enough of it to make a genre thread. It'd probably be a good idea though, since this thread periodically fills up with non Dresden discussion.
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Apr 12, 2013 04:00
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AlphaDog posted:Do we need a non-Dresden urban fantasy thread? Nah, we already pretty much agreed at the end of the last thread that this place more or less works as a general Non-poo poo Urban Fantasy thread, hence the big list of recommendations in the OP.
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Apr 12, 2013 04:23
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Which of the Denarians influenced Dresden in Changes? It is brought up in Ghost Story as why he gets to come back to life but I don't remember them saying who whispered in his ear that the would be hosed as the Winter Knight. Also god drat this series was great so far its too bad its going to be like 10 years before it ends because I don't think my interest will last that long. On the topic of other series in this genre I have read the Iron Druid Chronicles, The Rook, 20 Palace series, and am reading Kraken now, and god drat the Iron Druid stuff has some terrible loving sideplots and Atticus is a really awkward character. It makes it really hard to believe he has managed to live as long as he has when he does such stupid poo poo so readily and is so oblivious to when he is in danger. Like yeah I get there needs to be some peril to move the plot along but from the opening of the first book it feels like if he had any sense of self preservation which he says is all that matters to him then he shouldn't be doing a single thing he does. Also Oberon feels like a ripoff of Bob the Skull but instead of getting him in small doses you get him nonstop and ugh he sure does get annoying at times. The Rook was awesome though so yeah read that it's a great read. So far I'm like 30% into Kraken and uhh it is dense and confusing, I thought the City and the City was kind of hard to get through but this is like a whole layer more confusing. I am not one to put down a book though so I will keep charging in hoping for a pay off eventually. So next on my list for this genre is I guess the Atrocity Archives unless someone has a series that is really super awesome. I have lots of times sitting around so it isn't that big a deal if a book is bad it just matters if it's bad and is 1200 pages of bad and I am praying for a payoff that never happens.
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Apr 12, 2013 06:57
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Cryin Burnigan posted:Which of the Denarians influenced Dresden in Changes? It is brought up in Ghost Story as why he gets to come back to life but I don't remember them saying who whispered in his ear that the would be hosed as the Winter Knight. Cryin Burnigan posted:a series that is really super awesome
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Apr 12, 2013 07:39
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Edit: NM.
Fellwenner fucked around with this message at 14:20 on Apr 12, 2013 |
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Apr 12, 2013 09:10
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Cryin Burnigan posted:Which of the Denarians influenced Dresden in Changes? Isn't the going theory that it was Big S doing the whispering? Subverting Harrys free will completely.
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Apr 12, 2013 13:15
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Affi posted:Isn't the going theory that it was Big S doing the whispering? Subverting Harrys free will completely. That would explain why Uriel was involved at the time, and has basically hosed off since then. Cryin Burnigan posted:On the topic of other series in this genre I have read the Iron Druid Chronicles, The Rook, 20 Palace series, and am reading Kraken now, and god drat the Iron Druid stuff has some terrible loving sideplots and Atticus is a really awkward character. It makes it really hard to believe he has managed to live as long as he has when he does such stupid poo poo so readily and is so oblivious to when he is in danger. Like yeah I get there needs to be some peril to move the plot along but from the opening of the first book it feels like if he had any sense of self preservation which he says is all that matters to him then he shouldn't be doing a single thing he does. Also Oberon feels like a ripoff of Bob the Skull but instead of getting him in small doses you get him nonstop and ugh he sure does get annoying at times. The Rook was awesome though so yeah read that it's a great read. So far I'm like 30% into Kraken and uhh it is dense and confusing, I thought the City and the City was kind of hard to get through but this is like a whole layer more confusing. I am not one to put down a book though so I will keep charging in hoping for a pay off eventually. I've basically said "gently caress the Iron Druid series" at this point because of how irritating the character is. He's literally learned absolutely nothing across four novels and I'm going to just assume he dies horribly in the next novel and consider the series happily closed. You should definitely check out Ben Aaronovitch's Rivers of London series. If you're in the US the book titles are Midnight Riot, Moon over Soho and Whispers Underground. A fourth book is coming out some time this year called Broken Homes that continues in the same world/storyline and it is quickly becoming my favorite urban fantasy. The audiobooks are amazing, too. God drat the guy doing the narration is perfect (speaking as an American that knows jack poo poo about British accents).
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Apr 12, 2013 14:57
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Cryin Burnigan posted:Which of the Denarians influenced Dresden in Changes? It is brought up in Ghost Story as why he gets to come back to life but I don't remember them saying who whispered in his ear that the would be hosed as the Winter Knight. Also god drat this series was great so far its too bad its going to be like 10 years before it ends because I don't think my interest will last that long. Strictly speaking, I'm not sure it's even been established that it was a Denarian at all, just one of the Fallen. The most common theories I've heard are that it was either Lash or the actual Lasciel (probably the latter), or, as a couple posters have suggested, that it was the Devil himself. My personal theory is that it might have been whatever Fallen had been attached to Cassius, using his DIE ALONE death curse as a channel to influence Harry toward suicide. I think we absolutely have to assume that, whoever and whatever it was, that Nemesis was involved. Since influencing Harry broke the rules of engagement that no Fallen angel should have been able to break, and the one thing we know for sure about Nemesis is that it seems to be all about granting free will to supernatural creatures who lack it (in the worst way possible).
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Apr 12, 2013 15:15
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Affi posted:Isn't the going theory that it was Big S doing the whispering? Subverting Harrys free will completely. I doubt that, because A) it's kind of petty work and B) that'd mean Butcher was scraping the bottom of the barrel for characters. I might say Chauncey is involved though, because he's got most of Harry's Name and a callback to book 1 at this point would be kind of awesome.
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Apr 12, 2013 15:17
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404GoonNotFound posted:Nah, we already pretty much agreed at the end of the last thread that this place more or less works as a general Non-poo poo Urban Fantasy thread, hence the big list of recommendations in the OP. I think at some point we'll need a general urban fantsy thread instead of this one, once some of the newer writers like Aaronovitch are more established. But we aren't there yet.
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Apr 12, 2013 15:44
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I personally would not mind seeing a general Chat About Urban Fantasy That Isn't Terrible thread. I don't find it terribly disruptive here, though. Given the interval of a year or more between books, "hey, if you like the Dresden books you might like these books too" is a welcome alternative to the thread just going fallow for months on end or rehashing why people don't like Murphy in Fool Moon for the thirty-eleventh time.
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Apr 12, 2013 15:48
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I think at some point we'll need a general urban fantsy thread instead of this one, once some of the newer writers like Aaronovitch are more established. But we aren't there yet. Agreed, but not yet. docbeard posted:I personally would not mind seeing a general Chat About Urban Fantasy That Isn't Terrible thread. I don't find it terribly disruptive here, though. Given the interval of a year or more between books, "hey, if you like the Dresden books you might like these books too" is a welcome alternative to the thread just going fallow for months on end or rehashing why people don't like Murphy in Fool Moon for the thirty-eleventh time. This is why.
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Apr 12, 2013 15:52
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ConfusedUs posted:Agreed, but not yet. Yeah, pretty much. Right now Dresden dominates the genre completely and 95% of the people on SA reading urban fantasy started with Dresden. I think in a few years or so as writers like Aaronovitch get more established we'll at some point need a general thread. But yeah, not yet.
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Apr 12, 2013 15:57
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Cryin Burnigan posted:So next on my list for this genre is I guess the Atrocity Archives unless someone has a series that is really super awesome. I have lots of times sitting around so it isn't that big a deal if a book is bad it just matters if it's bad and is 1200 pages of bad and I am praying for a payoff that never happens. Another Goon recommended Simon Morden's Petrovitch series, although it isn't urban fantasy. It's more like cyberpunk-as-airport-novel and it was loving great. I got them on Kindle and mentioned how good they were to the better half, who promptly stole my Kindle from me and I didn't get it back until he was done.
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Apr 12, 2013 19:20
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Wade Wilson posted:That would explain why Uriel was involved at the time, and has basically hosed off since then. I agree heavily with your sentiments towards the Iron Druid. How the guy managed to live as long as he did and not learn basic lessons like "Don't gently caress with gods" both literally and figuratively is beyond me. I get the idea that he is fed up of running and that forgives the first book. Also I get that the author wants to make his protagonist into a quick witted bad rear end but that doesn't mean making the protagonist stupid and cocky is the way to do it. This guy has lived 2,100 years and he has avoided the ire of the Gods for this long and then suddenly he says "gently caress It" and basically ruins the world for his own gain. Also if the Norse Gods are mortal why didn't someone go kill Loki once the "plan" for Ragnarok was obviously hosed. And from the brief synopsis I read of Midnight Riot it sounded pretty good so I picked it up on my kindle. Now to just finish slogging through Kraken so that I can read something I at least understand what is going on in. Zola, the Petrovitch Series looks pretty good too and looks like it will be a good segue for me to leave the Urban Fiction genre and go back into Sci-Fi so that I don't end up reading a bunch of terrible novels in an attempt at getting a fix and ruining the genre for myself like I have with Fantasy.
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Apr 13, 2013 01:11
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I've finished the rivers of London series, which was quite good. I also finished the laundry files, after reading an anthology of shortstories by lovecraft, which I also enjoyed. Iron druid however is way over the top, I read the first three and now have shelved it for now. Any suggestions for other good books? (Besides The Devil you know, its stuck in the mail somewhere) Ika fucked around with this message at 03:29 on Apr 13, 2013 |
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Apr 13, 2013 03:27
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Ika posted:I've finished the rivers of London series, which was quite good. I also finished the laundry files, after reading an anthology of shortstories by lovecraft, which I also enjoyed. Iron druid however is way over the top, I read the first three and now have shelved it for now. The Rook.
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Apr 13, 2013 03:36
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Everyone read the Felix Castor series right the gently caress now.
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Apr 13, 2013 04:44
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Or don't, because it's terrible.
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Apr 13, 2013 04:57
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VanSandman posted:Everyone read the Felix Castor series right the gently caress now. Already done, liked it very much.
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Apr 13, 2013 08:54
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Amateur Sketch posted:I doubt that, because A) it's kind of petty work and B) that'd mean Butcher was scraping the bottom of the barrel for characters. I might say Chauncey is involved though, because he's got most of Harry's Name and a callback to book 1 at this point would be kind of awesome. Mortal true names have a shelf life of a couple of years at most. Harry hasn't summoned Chauncey in more than a decade. He's not involved.
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Apr 13, 2013 10:27
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Chauncey is also not one of the fallen and is free to act on earth if he can get there, He just can't on his own. He needs to be summoned where the Fallen seem to be free to come and go as they wish they just can effect the mortal world without breaking some as of yet unexplained rules.
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Apr 13, 2013 13:52
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VanSandman posted:Everyone read the Felix Castor series right the gently caress now. Blech.
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Apr 14, 2013 11:23
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Stroth posted:Mortal true names have a shelf life of a couple of years at most. Harry hasn't summoned Chauncey in more than a decade. He's not involved. Wizards may be an exception to the rule, or at least a footnote. Longer lifespan aside, they tend to get set in their ways. I mean, look at the plodding dinosaur that is the White Council. Harry, though, has had massive upheaval in the last few years. Hell, just over the last year, he's become a father, nearly lost his daughter, destroyed an entire court of vampires, died, and come back as a vassal of Winter. The whole introspection of Ghost Story probably had him rewrite his True Name once or twice.
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Apr 15, 2013 04:32
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Vicissitude posted:Wizards may be an exception to the rule, or at least a footnote. Longer lifespan aside, they tend to get set in their ways. I mean, look at the plodding dinosaur that is the White Council. Harry, though, has had massive upheaval in the last few years. Hell, just over the last year, he's become a father, nearly lost his daughter, destroyed an entire court of vampires, died, and come back as a vassal of Winter. The whole introspection of Ghost Story probably had him rewrite his True Name once or twice. I think Harry may have been wrong about human names changing that much -- or at least right for the power level he was working at then, but bad wrong for the level he's getting into. Remember Ferrovax at the party? It seems like higher-order beings need a much less exact grasp on your Name to use it against you.
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Apr 15, 2013 04:43
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Just started Rivers Of London, and read about a fifth of the book in one sitting. Pretty good so far.
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Apr 15, 2013 04:47
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I think Harry may have been wrong about human names changing that much -- or at least right for the power level he was working at then, but bad wrong for the level he's getting into. Remember Ferrovax at the party? It seems like higher-order beings need a much less exact grasp on your Name to use it against you. Not to mention that Dresden is incredibly stubborn. He's very, very attached to who he is, and because of that I doubt his Name will see much change, regardless of the general malleability of human Names.
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Apr 15, 2013 08:21
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Continuing the other novel discussion, would discussion on books like Simon R Greens 'Drood' be ok in this thread, I want other books kinda similar to it, just fun actiony novels with a semi urban fantasy setting. I am not so good at identifying book genres so I thought this would be the thread to ask in.
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Apr 15, 2013 12:07
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Hailfire posted:Continuing the other novel discussion, would discussion on books like Simon R Greens 'Drood' be ok in this thread, I want other books kinda similar to it, just fun actiony novels with a semi urban fantasy setting. I am not so good at identifying book genres so I thought this would be the thread to ask in. I assume you have read his Nightside series as well then? If not that's your next step.
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Apr 15, 2013 14:09
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Is the nightside series continuing the theme of "if you've read one Simon R Green book you've read them all, including copied paragraphs and pages at a time?" Cause his darkstalker series burned me the gently caress out.
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Apr 15, 2013 15:30
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cbservo posted:Is the nightside series continuing the theme of "if you've read one Simon R Green book you've read them all, including copied paragraphs and pages at a time?" Cause his darkstalker series burned me the gently caress out.
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Apr 15, 2013 15:36
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I think Harry may have been wrong about human names changing that much -- or at least right for the power level he was working at then, but bad wrong for the level he's getting into. Remember Ferrovax at the party? It seems like higher-order beings need a much less exact grasp on your Name to use it against you. Wasn't the point being made with Ferrovax more that higher-order beings can do so much with so little of someone's Name and not that they can have an infirm grasp of someone's Name and still affect them? Iirc Harry says that Ferrovax got the "Harry" part of his Name spot on, and literally floored him with only 1/4th of his Name and a look. Harry's obstinance and power growth notwithstanding, what he's gone through in the last few books seems to be the sort of stuff that would change even some of the older members of the magical community. It seems that Harry was saying it's not so much that humans names can easily change, but that they can change at all. Maybe the other big names around, particularly the ones that are dealing largely with mantles (Vaderrung I'm looking at you), are so active on Halloween because that's when they can change their nature.
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Apr 16, 2013 01:07
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Vicissitude posted:Wizards may be an exception to the rule, or at least a footnote. Longer lifespan aside, they tend to get set in their ways. I mean, look at the plodding dinosaur that is the White Council. Harry, though, has had massive upheaval in the last few years. Hell, just over the last year, he's become a father, nearly lost his daughter, destroyed an entire court of vampires, died, and come back as a vassal of Winter. The whole introspection of Ghost Story probably had him rewrite his True Name once or twice. Right, but we're talking Harry in mid-Changes, since he set up his own assassination before the big showdown, and that's when he was influenced by a Fallen. Yes he'd just found out he was a father and lost most of his earthly possessions, but that just made him desperation-mode Harry rather than changing his whole character.
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Apr 16, 2013 20:26
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Amateur Sketch posted:Right, but we're talking Harry in mid-Changes, since he set up his own assassination before the big showdown, and that's when he was influenced by a Fallen. Yes he'd just found out he was a father and lost most of his earthly possessions, but that just made him desperation-mode Harry rather than changing his whole character.
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Apr 16, 2013 20:43
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MasterFugu posted:why use spoiler tags for one bit of info then not for any of the other bits of info from the same book? Because the spoilered part comes into play at the very end of the book after?
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Apr 16, 2013 21:10
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majdumbo posted:Wasn't the point being made with Ferrovax more that higher-order beings can do so much with so little of someone's Name and not that they can have an infirm grasp of someone's Name and still affect them? Iirc Harry says that Ferrovax got the "Harry" part of his Name spot on, and literally floored him with only 1/4th of his Name and a look. I think you guys are putting way too much thought into this. This series is pure pulp. Enjoyable pulp, but pulp nonetheless. Butcher is just making this poo poo up as he goes along, this isnt a supper-intricate work of literature where everything fits together logically. Just relax and enjoy it.
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Apr 16, 2013 22:04
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MasterFugu posted:why use spoiler tags for one bit of info then not for any of the other bits of info from the same book? One of these things is more dramatic than the others! Also I'm pretty sure the daughter is mentioned on the dust cover.
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Apr 16, 2013 22:17
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Mr.48 posted:I think you guys are putting way too much thought into this. This series is pure pulp. Enjoyable pulp, but pulp nonetheless. Butcher is just making this poo poo up as he goes along, this isnt a supper-intricate work of literature where everything fits together logically. Just relax and enjoy it. But...but...MY CANON.
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Apr 16, 2013 22:55
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