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Luegene Cards posted:I believe there's a chemical in canned diced that keeps them from dissolving, which is mostly what you want them to do.+ Christmas Miracle posted:Like the last poster said, diced tomatoes aren't the best choice because they contain, i believe, calcium chloride, which keeps them from breaking down. I don't think this makes any difference. It keeps them from breaking down in the tin, but the cooking process will be much more powerful than the calcium chloride. I've cooked with UK tinned tomatoes, which tend not to be treated with calcium chloride, and US ones, and I haven't noticed an appreciable difference in texture or flavour after cooking down. Edit: And don't use fresh tomatoes. They will be much less good.
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Apr 14, 2013 19:00
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Scientastic posted:I don't think this makes any difference. It keeps them from breaking down in the tin, but the cooking process will be much more powerful than the calcium chloride. Tomatoes in general are not needed. Also I suggest sticking with only one or two different types of peppers, otherwise the flavors will just muddle together into just "hot". Also if you are using dry chilis make them into a paste, don't just throw them in diced or whatever. IMHO this give a better end product and also allows you to taste and adjust it before you really get too far into the cooking. I like to brown the beef cubes, then set them aside. Make the paste while also cooking down the onion. Then when the paste is about where you like it, brown up the loose sausage and get everything in there and cooking. Blend the chipotles and their sauce into a second paste and then add that to taste as you cook. It freezes very well and depending on what your main peppers are you might not use much of the can. Also suggest that you make two small batches rather than one big one. If something goes wrong you are going to end up with 4 pounds of it if you do one batch. Chili does not scale down super well but starting with one kilo of meat should be fine.
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Apr 14, 2013 19:20
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To add to this I really can't see the bourbon making any impact at all on the flavour unless you're using a lot so its probably a waste and you should drink it while making the chili instead
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Apr 14, 2013 19:38
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Scott Bakula posted:To add to this I really can't see the bourbon making any impact at all on the flavour unless you're using a lot so its probably a waste and you should drink it while making the chili instead This is good advice whenever you are considering dumping any moderately pricey booze into a big pot of food. Especially when the food already has a strong flavor. If it is an issue, just tell everyone you put it in. Only you will know the terrible secret. Drinking the booze will help you live with your twisted web of lies.
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Apr 14, 2013 19:49
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Thanks for the advice everyone. I'm pretty sure amazon won't ship foodstuffs internationally, or I'd have done this years ago. I've never seen calcium chloride on the ingredients list of any of the tinned tomatoes we have here, most tinned tomatos sold in Australia come from Italy, and I believe its illegal for them to have additives over there... I buy organic just to make sure. I'll tone down the chipotle, and let everyone know how it goes. The Lord Bude fucked around with this message at 00:54 on Apr 15, 2013 |
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Apr 15, 2013 00:40
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The Lord Bude posted:I've never seen calcium chloride on the ingredients list of any of the tinned tomatoes we have here, most tinned tomatos sold in Australia come from Italy, and I believe its illegal for them to have additives over there... I buy organic just to make sure. Don't assume that the addition of calcium chloride is necessarily a bad thing, just because it's an additive. Unless you know it's bad, it's silly to leap to the knee-jerk conclusion that because something has been added, the ingredient is somehow less authentic or high quality. For all you know, calcium chloride makes the tomatoes better! I really, really doubt that there will be any noticeable improvement in flavour by using organic tomatoes and cheap tinned tomatoes. You're cooking the chili for so long that it won't make a difference.
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Apr 15, 2013 02:23
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Scientastic posted:I really, really doubt that there will be any noticeable improvement in flavour by using organic tomatoes and cheap tinned tomatoes. You're cooking the chili for so long that it won't make a difference. This is a good argument against sticking them in at all really.
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Apr 15, 2013 02:46
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My trip to the deli ended up something of a disappointment, they were out of most of the chilli varieties listed on their website. I came away with a pack of dried Cascabel, Yunnah, and a small pack of dried Habaneros. They did at least have chipotle in Adobo, so I'll use some of that. I'm hoping I can still get good chilli out of this. I bought some fresh Jalapenos for variety as well.
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Apr 15, 2013 03:37
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bunnielab posted:This is a good argument against sticking them in at all really. There's a bigger difference between Tomatoes vs no Tomatoes than Tinned vs Organic. So not really an argument against them at all.
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Apr 15, 2013 09:37
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The organic thing is to be absolutely sure of avoiding additives. The only ingredients in the tins of tomatoes I buy are tomatoes and salt; and I have the option of buying tins which skip the salt as well. My Chilli turned out pretty good, but milder/less intensely flavoured as I'd hoped. Final ingredient list: Chilli Paste Toasted, deseeded dried chillies cut into bits: 4 Cascabel, 4 Yunnah, 1 Habanero hot beef stock for blending - soaked Chillies in hot stock for half an hour, then blended in blender. Spice Powder heaped tablespoon of cumin seeds, toasted teaspoon of peppercorns, toasted heaped tablespoon of smoked paprika half tablespoon of oregano 2 teaspoons of salt - combined and ground in mortar and pestle The meat 1.8kg of Beef brisket, trimmed of excess fat and diced 500g of mild fresh chorizo - browned in a skillet, deglazed with some of my beer Other stuff 4 red onions head of garlic 4 bay leaves 1 cinnamon stick 6 fresh Jalapenos, deseeded and cut into 4 pieces each 2 400g tins of red kidney beans, drained. 1 bunch chopped fresh coriander juice of 2 limes half a 398g tin of Chipotle in Adobo, blended 330ml bottle of Rauchbier from a local craft brewery. remainder of my beef stock - 500ml total. So I sauteed the onions, garlic and fresh Jalapenos in a dash of oil, along with the spice powder. When that was done I added the browned meat, chilli paste, chipotle/adobo mixture, the remainder of the stock and the rest of the bottle of beer that wasn't used to deglaze. I simmered for 4 hours, skimming fat off the surface and reducing the liquid as I went. I had at it with the potato masher too towards the end, since I didn't have as long as I wanted for cooking. I added the beans half an hour before serving, and I stirred through the coriander and lime juice right at the end. I served it on rice with a dollop of sour cream. Observations: It needed more chilli. Next time I might double the quantity of the dried chilli and see how I go. I might also add more chipotle in adobo, but I don't want that aspect to overpower the rest so I might just increase the other chillies. I was let down by the deli in terms of chilli variety, the Yunnah chillies seem just like dried generic red chillies. Hopefully I can get hold of some Guajillo or ancho next time instead of the Yunnah. I might experiment with adding the fresh Jalapenos to the chilli paste rather than directly to the pot in pieces. Next time I'll plan it further in advance, so I'll have more time to let it simmer and I can use dried beans instead of tins. I want to get hold of some pinto beans and black beans to supplement or replace the red kidney. I prefer to use tortillas instead of rice, but I forgot to buy them, so I settled for rice, and I'll remember to buy some shredded tasty cheese for garnishing next time.
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Apr 15, 2013 10:54
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The Lord Bude posted:I had at it with the potato masher too towards the end, since I didn't have as long as I wanted for cooking.
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Apr 15, 2013 11:08
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fuckpot posted:Why? To shred the big chunks of meat up a bit. Had I more time to let is simmer for a few more hours it would have started doing this by itself.
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Apr 15, 2013 11:13
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The Lord Bude posted:The organic thing is to be absolutely sure of avoiding additives. The only ingredients in the tins of tomatoes I buy are tomatoes and salt; and I have the option of buying tins which skip the salt as well. I don't know what the definition of additives is here, but they can put whatever they want in organic packaged food as long as the stuff is also legally organic.
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Apr 15, 2013 16:14
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Aramoro posted:There's a bigger difference between Tomatoes vs no Tomatoes than Tinned vs Organic. So not really an argument against them at all. I disagree. If you add enough to taste them than your chili will be too tomatoey, if you add less then why bother at all as they add nothing flavor wise that will come through.
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Apr 16, 2013 00:12
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bunnielab posted:If you add enough to taste them than your chili will be too tomatoey That's a "one true chili" argument. I happen to like a bit of a tomato flavour in my chili. But I put beans in my chili, so you can probably discount my opinion.
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Apr 16, 2013 01:03
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Scientastic posted:That's a "one true chili" argument. I happen to like a bit of a tomato flavour in my chili. But I put beans in my chili, so you can probably discount my opinion. There is a one true chili though? Beans are acceptable in a mince meat chili as they add needed texture. Tomato is never welcome and brings nothing to the dish but moisture.
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Apr 16, 2013 01:19
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bunnielab posted:There is a one true chili though?
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Apr 16, 2013 03:23
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fuckpot posted:And sweetness. Having said that I don't put tomatoes in my chili.  Or just sweet onions.
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Apr 16, 2013 03:52
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bunnielab posted:I disagree. If you add enough to taste them than your chili will be too tomatoey, if you add less then why bother at all as they add nothing flavor wise that will come through. I don't even get this. You either taste tomato, or you don't? That isn't how it works at all. Not to mention, tomatoes don't make your chili thin.
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Apr 16, 2013 04:12
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My point is that if you add enough to taste them then you are going to be adding a ton of water, thinning the chili and diluting the other flavors. There is no reason to add it other than needing something to make it red in color if you aren't using enough peppers. The dish, at it's core is peppers and meat with some simple spices, cooked slowly. Both of the main ingredients are so strongly flavored that adding small amounts of other crap aren't going make a difference in taste and adding a large amount of other crap results in a dish that is unlike what chili is supposed to taste like.
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Apr 16, 2013 04:19
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You can just reduce it, and concentrate the flavor, use tomato paste, maybe reconstitute some sundrieds. Chili doesn't have to be meat and chiles.
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Apr 16, 2013 04:28
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Chef De Cuisinart posted:You can just reduce it, and concentrate the flavor, use tomato paste, maybe reconstitute some sundrieds. Chili doesn't have to be meat and chiles. Yes it does, by the very definition of the dish. Is a sandwich with two slices of bread untoasted bread still a club?
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Apr 16, 2013 04:30
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Yeah, it does. That's the whole point. Tomatoes and beans are just things you throw in when you're too broke to add enough meat.
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Apr 16, 2013 04:32
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bunnielab posted:Yes it does, by the very definition of the dish. Just going to go with "no, you're wrong." and move on. It does not have to be meat and chiles. You can put whatever the hell you want into your chili, and call it chili, as long as the base for the dish is chiles. There is no "one true chili." Should I leave out garlic and onions? They're not peppers or meat. Back before refrigeration, chili was formed into dry blocks of meat and peppers that would be boiled to eat. I should obviously go back to that. No, dishes evolve. Accept it, and move forward. Chef De Cuisinart fucked around with this message at 04:51 on Apr 16, 2013 |
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Apr 16, 2013 04:44
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Then why bother naming things at all? Why not just call it all "food" and be done with it?
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Apr 16, 2013 04:56
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bunnielab posted:Then why bother naming things at all? Why not just call it all "food" and be done with it? I'd rather just call all chili "chili" and be done with it. Tomatoes are a huge part of southwestern food, of course chili should have tomatoes in it. But since chili was a frontier food, you didn't often find tomatoes on hand, so you went with safe preserving methods and were stuck with just peppers and meat. Just because food lacked variety way back then doesn't mean it has to now. You should not artificially limit chili to two ingredients. Instead change the definition to a stew with a base of dried chiles, or chili powder, and traditionally beef. Chef De Cuisinart fucked around with this message at 05:05 on Apr 16, 2013 |
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Apr 16, 2013 05:02
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bunnielab posted:Then why bother naming things at all? Why not just call it all "food" and be done with it? The ontological chili argument. Are you loving serious? Tell me, what are the correct pizza toppings?
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Apr 16, 2013 05:26
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signalnoise posted:The ontological chili argument. Are you loving serious? Tell me, what are the correct pizza toppings? bunnielab is deadly serious, he's some sort of massive one-true-chili sperg that you can safely ignore.
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Apr 16, 2013 12:22
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signalnoise posted:The ontological chili argument. Are you loving serious? Tell me, what are the correct pizza toppings?  pizza must be made with only semolina flour and only be topped with fresh (Genovese) basil, fresh (Roma) tomatoes, and imported mozzarella di buffala  
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Apr 16, 2013 13:24
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Why can't people just accept that there are right ways and wrong ways of doing things, and not do things the wrong way?
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Apr 16, 2013 17:08
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I'm with you that there are right WAYS to do chilli, but there isn't just one. It's not like bunnielab or anyone else was there the first time chilli was ever made in history and confirm that "rump steak plus guajillos plus chipotle plus one-quarter spanish onion = chilli" or anything. As long as chiles and meat are the two stars of the dish and it's a thick stew, it's chilli. Switch the meat for TVP or something else stupid, make it into tomato soup with beef and chiles, and it ain't chilli no more. But tomatoes sure the gently caress are a common and acceptable chili ingredient.
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Apr 16, 2013 17:18
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Tomatoes are even very common in national ICS championships, and those people are the biggest chili spergs on earth. I am pretty sure it's just added for the color, but you rarely find an ICS winner that doesn't add 8 oz of tomato product. It's to the point where people just add it for good luck at the cookoffs. My own texas style chili turns out better when i add a little tomatoes. I can't believe he's willing to accept beans but not tomatoes.
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Apr 16, 2013 20:00
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Arguing about what is chili is half the fun of a chili thread.
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Apr 16, 2013 22:51
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I just recently learned that "American Goulash" is the proper term for what my parents called Chili. I'm devastated. I always knew it was a terrible representation of chili, but deep in my heart, I had hope that my Irish/Polish Wisconsin family had a reason for calling it that...but no. No. I've had real, honest to god chili so many times, but each time I've thought "I wish this had elbow macaroni in it.." but have perhaps rightfully been shunned into silence.
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Apr 16, 2013 23:00
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Kenning posted:Arguing about what is chili is half the fun of a chili thread. Yea, for real. Also the bean acceptance is limited to the weaker mince beef chili where texture in needed to prevent it from slipping into becoming a chili sauce.
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Apr 17, 2013 01:07
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bunnielab posted:Yea, for real. chili sauce isn't even like chili because it doesn't have meat and what are you even trying to argue.
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Apr 17, 2013 01:48
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Chef De Cuisinart posted:chili sauce isn't even like chili because it doesn't have meat and what are you even trying to argue. No, like the stuff you put on chili dogs.
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Apr 17, 2013 02:20
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bunnielab posted:No, like the stuff you put on chili dogs. But I put thick chili on chili dogs, what you're describing is canned chili, like Hormel, or Wolf, or Skyline.
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Apr 17, 2013 02:21
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Chef De Cuisinart posted:But I put thick chili on chili dogs, what you're describing is canned chili, like Hormel, or Wolf, or Skyline. Oh no man, it can be made well and is amazing. I don't know if Turkeybone posts much anymore but the place in Bmore he used to work did an "entirely from scratch" chilidog for their bar menu and the chili (as was everything really) was amazing. He posted the recipe but I have no idea in what old thread. I think one of the industry ones maybe? Does search work these days?
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Apr 17, 2013 02:51
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There's nothing like a good-sized dab of for-real Texas-style chili in a baked potato. That poo poo has so much flavor you can pretty much just use it as a condiment.
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Apr 18, 2013 02:06
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