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Thank you.
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Apr 8, 2013 18:33
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Rapey Joe Stalin posted:Do you have a link? I couldn't find it on the BL site, would love to have my own copy. He also did Xenology, which was cool. Unfortunately, he seems to have had... differences of opinion with the GW leadership (no, I don't have many more details than that), which led to him leaving early.
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Apr 10, 2013 10:01
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I'm a fan of the 40K universe, with a decent amount of knowledge, but I'm by no means an expert on the lore. I want to get into the HH books - I know there's a set order you're recommended to read them in, and it sounds like some of them build on events in other books but am I going to miss out on much if I skip the crap ones? Or are there any of the ones that are worth reading that I'm going to want to have read other books in the series beforehand? They sound really awesome but I don't want to have to wade through the terrible installments that contain vital plot points just so I have an idea what's going on in the ones that are worth reading. VVV Yeah I did read that, just wasn't sure how "familiar" "familiar with 40k" is when it says "Don’t read them until you’re familiar with 40k, and can understand just who all these characters are and why they’re so important". I guess I can always just Lexicanum anything I'm unfamiliar with. Owlkill fucked around with this message at 17:58 on Apr 15, 2013 |
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Apr 15, 2013 17:19
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Second post from the OP.
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Apr 15, 2013 17:43
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I'll go over the books (no audiobooks) and how they relate to each other. * Horus Rising * False Gods * Galaxy in Flames - These first 3 are a continuing storyline and should be read back-to-back before the rest of the series. Quality varies. * The Flight of the Eisenstein - Sorta follows up from the above, but I thought it was pretty bad and only connects to James Swallow's pet Garro audiobook series. And he's not a good author. * Fulgrim - Up to taste. Some people really like it, but I lost interest halfway (which is funny because I managed to sat through all of Eisenstein). Aside from telling the story of how Fulgrim falls, which is relevant for everything that contains him (most notably Aurelian), not much else happens. Occurs concurrently with the first trilogy, so if you intend to read it, directly after Galaxy in Flames would be a good time. * Descent of Angels - Skip. * Legion - Very good. Sets the stage for anything that includes Alpha Legion (a couple short stories), but can be read at anytime otherwise. * Battle for the Abyss - Skip. * Mechanicum - I tried to read it, but couldn't. I don't think it connects to anything else in the HH in a meaningful fashion. * Tales of Heresy - Short stories. Blood Games and After Desh'ea are good, The Last Church is interesting for flavor. <<<- After this point, all books tend to take place after Istvaan, or follow independent events that culminate with the onset of open civil war ->>> * Fallen Angels - Skip. * A Thousand Sons - I hold this as the best Graham McNeill book. It follows into Prospero Burns, which I suggest reading back-to-back with it. * Nemesis - Skip. Doesn't matter for anything. * The First Heretic - Must read. ADB. Excellent book and ties in to some of the best of the HH series. Ties into Aurelian (which happens midway/directly after) and continues in Know No Fear. * Aurelian - Novella. ADB too, so good by default. Should be read directly after TFH. * Prospero Burns - Another great Abnett book. Ties into A Thousand Sons as mentioned above, and I'd suggest reading them back to back. Gives the wolves a personality, rather than being yiffing space vikings. * Age of Darkness - Haven't read it, but every story there that's not Swallow, Kyme or Thorpe promises to be at least decent, not to mention the Abnett and ADB ones. * The Outcast Dead - Skip. It doesn't matter to anything and actually adds continuity errors. * Deliverance Lost - Skip. It's loving Gav Thorpe. * Know No Fear - Awesome. As with Prospero Burns, gives flavor to the Ultramarines, rather than Matt Ward's and McNeil's lovely handling of them. Continued in Betrayer. * The Primarchs - gently caress this book. Read it for The Serpent Beneath if you want, but don't even bother skimming the rest. * Fear to Tread - Skip. * Shadows of Treachery - Haven't gone through it, but anything by Abnett and ADB is word reading. Anything by Gav Thorpe should be avoided. McNeill is hit or miss. * Angel Exterminatus - Haven't read it. OP says is good? * Betrayer - Read. This. So for the most part, you can see the good books connect to each other (Abnett  ADB), while the lovely books either don't really matter or connect to each other in their own dark, dank and grime-filled part of the library. Not part of the HH per se, but Chris Wright's Battle of the Fang takes place around m32ish (rather than m40-41 like most of the rest of 'present' setting) and follows elements built upon by A Thousand Sons and Prospero Burns. ADB's Night Lord series follows characters that were alive during the Heresy, and so have indirect ties into anything related to the Night Lords in the HH books.I'll hold The First Heretic -> Aurelian -> Know No Fear -> Betrayer sequence as the best writing in that series, and some of the best the BL has to offer.
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Apr 15, 2013 18:19
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The nice thing about the Horus Heresy series is that all the "essential" books are pretty good. They keep the central story-lines in the hands of the more capable guys, while poo poo like the Blood Angels and Dark Angels books don't affect too much else.
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Apr 15, 2013 18:29
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The problem with Fear to Tread is that it could have been so much more than it was if it was written by ADB or Abnett (in this case, I would have preferred ADB). Unfortunately, it just makes the Blood Angels somewhat hilariously tragic rather than actually tragic.
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Apr 15, 2013 19:06
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I finished Ahriman: Exile the other day. It was, um... ok at best? Per usual, as in the case of anything not written by ADB or Abnett, none of the characters had any, well, character at all. Even Ahriman was pretty flat. Add to that the fact that the book was kind of weird (though I can't fairly deduct points there - prophetic visions, visitations to daemon worlds and all) and the renegade Space Marines were pretty terribly written. The entire conceit of the book really could have been a two-page blurb in the CSM Codex. Very little was added to the Ahriman character/mythos as a whole. It's kind of a bummer, as it probably could have been a really cool book, since Ahriman is a pretty cool cat. Personally, I think it was entirely skippable - I really wanted to put it down about a third of the way through, but I rarely kill a book unless it is completely awful.
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Apr 15, 2013 19:46
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Mechafunkzilla posted:The nice thing about the Horus Heresy series is that all the "essential" books are pretty good. They keep the central story-lines in the hands of the more capable guys, while poo poo like the Blood Angels and Dark Angels books don't affect too much else. Just you wait for Gav Thorpe's The Siege of Terra.
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Apr 15, 2013 20:27
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Shadows of Treachery should be gotten for Prince of Crows alone. Sevatar is a fascinating character. I also thought The Crimson Fist to be good.
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Apr 16, 2013 00:19
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Nephilm posted:A massively helpful guide to the HH books Mechafunkzilla posted:The nice thing about the Horus Heresy series is that all the "essential" books are pretty good. They keep the central story-lines in the hands of the more capable guys, while poo poo like the Blood Angels and Dark Angels books don't affect too much else. Cheers guys! That's really helpful. I've just got back into reading BL books after a gap of several years, finding they're the perfect thing to make the commute go by fast. HH should keep me going for several weeks, I'm sure.
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Apr 16, 2013 01:18
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So just finished Pariah immediately after the Eisenhorn omnibus. That was sure a thing 
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Apr 16, 2013 04:21
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Nephilm posted:Just you wait for Gav Thorpe's The Siege of Terra. They... wouldn't do that. Would they? 
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Apr 16, 2013 04:27
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Can-O-Raid posted:So just finished Pariah immediately after the Eisenhorn omnibus. Did you read Ravenor before? Highly recommend that.
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Apr 16, 2013 04:32
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The single best thing about Prosperto Burns is how much perspective it gives the whole breadth of 40k lore. The Wolves had their Primarch around the longest, he was 2nd found and one of the last to leave, they had the most of their Great Crusade people stick around the longest (with Bjorn and Hauser still regularly decanted to teach the Wolves), and their autonomy means the changes in the Imperium have been the least felt there. So all in all, the modern Wolves are basically the same as the Great Crusade wolves in terms of attitude, tactics, discipline, outlook, etc. And over the course of 10,000 years the Wolves have gone from being regarded as insanely over the top brutal to being some of the nice guys of the galaxy. THAT is how far the Imperium has fallen from the Emperor's ideal. That the pants-shittingly violent psychopaths are now seen as caring, protective people simply by sheer loving comparison to how over the top everyone else is. Between that and just the sense of loss that permeates Know No Fear, you really get the feeling of the great tragedy that this is supposed to be. ADB is great at calling out how horrible the Empire really is, Abnett is great at showing how much worse it got/
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Apr 16, 2013 04:45
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Well, the Salamanders are seen with as much reverence for their care for the people of the Imperium, as are the Blood Angels, and the Ultramarines are outright loved. It's not that the Wolves are particularly nice, if anything, what they have going for them is that among the First Founding chapters whose focus is on the people rather than the institution, the Wolves are the most willing to act in a rash and uncompromising manner. And even the wolves themselves have forgotten a lot, and Bjorn and their other ancients can see themselves how much they have degenerated into reverence much like the rest of the Imperium whenever they're awoken. I think the only chapters that have really kept their nature and knowledge are the Dark Angels and Grey Knights, both also being the most secretive about that which they know.
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Apr 16, 2013 05:21
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Nephilm posted:Did you read Ravenor before? Highly recommend that. Yup, first 40K books I ever read.
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Apr 16, 2013 13:59
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Nephilm posted:Well, the Salamanders are seen with as much reverence for their care for the people of the Imperium, as are the Blood Angels, and the Ultramarines are outright loved. It's not that the Wolves are particularly nice, if anything, what they have going for them is that among the First Founding chapters whose focus is on the people rather than the institution, the Wolves are the most willing to act in a rash and uncompromising manner. That reminds me of this quote:"Ah, dammit", he thought, "it's that time of the century again".
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Apr 16, 2013 17:10
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Yanno what sucks about this thread? I have my next WH40K books lined up and all ready to read when I'm done with whatever. And then things like what Shadowhand00 posts are brought to my attention and I'm all like "poo poo I want to read that now!!" I can't keep up =(
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Apr 16, 2013 18:55
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Lead Psychiatry posted:Yanno what sucks about this thread? I have my next WH40K books lined up and all ready to read when I'm done with whatever. And then things like what Shadowhand00 posts are brought to my attention and I'm all like "poo poo I want to read that now!!" That's just fanfiction from 1d4chan.
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Apr 16, 2013 19:05
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Mechafunkzilla posted:That's just fanfiction from 1d4chan. Yeah, I wish it were canon. But... Battle of the Fang is really similar. Bjorn is basically thinking that even if he's not saying it. At least, that's how I like to see it since his character is so tragic anyway.
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Apr 16, 2013 19:11
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Now that I know it's fan-fiction I can pretty much read right now and not have to worry about shifting around my reading lineup so that deserves a genuine thanks!! Edit: And sure enough, that poo poo was downright hilarious. Lead Psychiatry fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Apr 16, 2013 |
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Apr 16, 2013 21:12
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Lead Psychiatry posted:Now that I know it's fan-fiction I can pretty much read right now and not have to worry about shifting around my reading lineup so that deserves a genuine thanks!! Thank you to this thread, I had a lot of fun reading about the Angry Marines.
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Apr 17, 2013 05:34
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I'm guessing the general consensus about Fear to Tread is to avoid it? I'm half way through and I'm really enjoying it so far to be fair. I'd even go as far as saying its one of the most enjoyable HH books in the series. However I'm only half way so it could all come down like a house of cards... It's not like I give the author the benefit of the doubt either after that Nemesis debacle.
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Apr 17, 2013 07:51
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Prospero Burns is probably one of my favorite Abnett books. I'd really love some tie ins with Hawser (the Skjald) and if he's still around on Fenris alongisde Bjorn.
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Apr 17, 2013 12:01
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Demiurge4 posted:Prospero Burns is probably one of my favorite Abnett books. I'd really love some tie ins with Hawser (the Skjald) and if he's still around on Fenris alongisde Bjorn. Hawser being woken up in M41.999 and sent to Terra to confront the Administratum in search of a file would be an interesting exercise. I do have a feeling that some reference to either him or Gramaticus will pop up in one of the Bequin trilogy though.
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Apr 17, 2013 13:27
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Mikojan posted:I'm guessing the general consensus about Fear to Tread is to avoid it? I think that most of the people here (including myself) have become jaded because of the great Abnett and ADB books. Everything else pales in comparison.
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Apr 17, 2013 13:35
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berzerkmonkey posted:It comes down to personal preference. If you enjoy it, more power to you. I didn't think it was as bad as most of these guys make it out to be, but I thought it was mediocre. I thought Nemesis was alright as well, though I didn't think it should have been in the HH series at all. There is still great work coming out from some of the other BL authors, Abnett and ADB just have the distinction of being the most consistently excellent (and the most prolific). I personally would get much more excited for a new Rob Sanders book than anything from Abnett or ADB. Chris Wraight is also really good, and improving. I'd like to see him get a crack at the Horus Heresy, especially since Battle of the Fang was practically a HH book anyway.
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Apr 17, 2013 15:07
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No, you're correct - there are other good BL authors. But ADB and Abnett are the most prolific, and unfortunately, the way BL is releasing product lately, you see far more bad (or at least sub-par) than good.
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Apr 17, 2013 15:13
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I really liked the new guy Peter Fehervari. Pretty decent sci-fi even beyond just BL standards. The problem with BL is that some of their most prolific writers are also horrible - James Swallow, Gav Thorpe, Nick Kyme, Graham McNiell etc.
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Apr 17, 2013 15:20
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McNeill is wildly inconsistent, but when he's on he's as good as anyone. Fulgrim is still probably my favorite HH novel. I wouldn't group him with the likes of Gav Thorpe and James Swallow. I also kind of feel like Nick Kyme is a decent writer who should just never write space marines. His Warhammer Fantasy work is almost all excellent. Mechafunkzilla fucked around with this message at 15:37 on Apr 17, 2013 |
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Apr 17, 2013 15:34
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Mikojan posted:I'm guessing the general consensus about Fear to Tread is to avoid it? Fear to Tread was good, just not on the ADB/Abnett tier. I think worth reading. Jerkface fucked around with this message at 16:24 on Apr 17, 2013 |
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Apr 17, 2013 16:20
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McNeill seems to be at his best when he's writing about Chaos. His Mechanicum stuff is okay, but any of his vanilla Marine stuff is universally pretty bad.
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Apr 17, 2013 16:21
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Someone gave me his Ultramarines omnibus (the first one) because he didn't want to read it ever again. McNeill's foreword made him sound like a high schooler raving "Space Marines are cool!" I only read the short story and the first book. Come to think of it, his story in Shadows of Treachery about Curze felt off. Like it wasn't really Curze. And then again ADB must have spoiled me for anything Night Lords!
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Apr 18, 2013 02:11
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ADB has spoiled me to expect good quality from BL now. Most of it has become unreadable as a result.
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Apr 18, 2013 04:43
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Having just finished it, I can say that if you're still unsure about whether or not to read Fear to Tread: - If you like Blood Angels, you'll probably be at least okay with this. It doesn't quite do for them what, say, Prospero Burns did for the Space Wolves and what Know No Fear did for the Ultramarines -- you're not going to change your opinions about them based on it -- but it's a very serviceable demonstration of both their good and bad points. - Sanguinius is one of the really central characters in the core conflict of the Horus Heresy, so if you've been with this series for the long haul (and know, as we all do, how it ends), it's worth it just for seeing his part play out properly. - You get to watch a Bloodthirster out-  a Keeper of Secrets, and Sanguinius do likewise unto the Bloodthirster in turn*. Not huge in the scope of things, but entertaining nonetheless.*"Only angels should have wings. "Edit: In related news, Aaron Dembski-Bowden, being a classy and generous guy, has graced us with a tantalizing sneak preview of the cover art for the first book in his upcoming Black Legion series. Mazed fucked around with this message at 03:16 on Apr 19, 2013 |
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Apr 19, 2013 02:39
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Mazed posted:Edit:  Metal as hell
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Apr 19, 2013 16:43
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Mazed posted:In related news, Aaron Dembski-Bowden, being a classy and generous guy, has graced us with a tantalizing sneak preview of the cover art for the first book in his upcoming Black Legion series. As if I could get any more excited about a new ADB Chaos Space Marine series. That cover illustration is gorgeous.
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Apr 19, 2013 16:45
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Nephilm posted:Generally awesome guide to HH series The only amendment I'd make to that is that Mechanicum is a really good book if you want to go further into understanding the relationship between the Adeptus Mechanicus and the Imperium or why they talk about Mars having all this cool tech during the Crusade and yet 10,000 years later they seem to barely know what the gently caress there is on Mars itself. If you're familiar with the basics of WH40K lore and want a decent understanding of how the AM and Imperium fit together read this and Abnett's Titanicus. I guess if you think sci-fi techno-babble is boring or just want to read more about Space Marines crushing Xenos skulls/Skull like appendages then it's eminently skippable but I think it adds a bit more depth of flavour to Imperium. At least in part because prior to reading those two novels I really thought of the Mechanicus as being kind of like another SM chapter rather than a nominally separate faction allied to the Imperium.
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Apr 22, 2013 01:56
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Titanicus is a must-read if you're at all interested in the Ad-Mech, NAND even if you aren't you should still probably pick it up if you're up to date on Eisenhorn/Ravenor/Bequin (it isn't related to those though, don't worry about spoilers).
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Apr 22, 2013 03:45
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