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Density and wealth are orthogonal. You can have high-wealth mansions housing a single family, which are low density, and you can have giant low-wealth tenements housing thousands, which is high density. As long as you provide water, jobs, and high density zoning, a high demand can make high density buildings grow.
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Apr 11, 2013 01:36
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MikeJF posted:Do you have the HT jobs fix? I do. At least I think I do. I downloaded it and put it in the plugins folder along with NAM and some other fixes. Is there a way to verify that it works?
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Apr 11, 2013 04:41
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I'm pretty sure the high tech jobs fix is NOT working. From using the route query tool, no R$$$ sims are commuting to any of the high tech buildings. The instructions for the mod were just to put the .dat file in the plugins folder, and I did that. I know I have the right plugins folder (I got the old fashioned pack mods to work, but removed them). I did Google the problem and found some process that I might have to go through to get the mod to actually work, despite what the mod itself says. It involves messing with the .dat files. Seems odd to me, does everyone else have this fix running correctly?
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Apr 12, 2013 15:24
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Oh man this game is weird sometimes. Secondary city of 25K residents next to my main population center--both are medium tiles. Okay, so I had a waste incinerator and a natural gas power plant: 8000MW of power. I was selling off 5000MW to a neighborhood and was about to close my sudden budget gap. Right, I'm quite certain the budget in this side city was balanced when I last played it a few days to a week ago. Not profitable, but I'm quite certain I left it at +/-$500/mo gap. Manageable. For some reason this city is now $2,000/mo in the hole and my garbage rate is (and already was before today) astronomical, but fueling the incinerator. Oh wait, for no reason the capacity and the volume suddenly invert as I'm playing  My 8000MW of power drop to around 4100MW, the neighborhood deal dies, my population drops to 0 in less than a month, and utilities stop working. Zero power or water... and now I'm losing $5K/mo in revenue for a few months as I'm just sitting and staring, completely baffled.Then while poking around for what might have happened in the advisor logs the power returns and my population jumps from zero to I think 5K to 17K to suddenly 35K. No, I didn't save. I did realize that the one and only change I made was to install the Ind-HT jobs fix after this thread kept mentioning it this week. But I don't see how that would cause the graph for garbage capacity/volume to invert. So,  I'm considering uninstalling that until I start an entirely new region. Though this could be interesting as well as a sign I gotta nuke it all and start over.[/baffled rant]
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Apr 13, 2013 12:09
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Andrigaar posted:Oh man this game is weird sometimes. The garbage system is easily the worst/dumbest system in the game. I also don't understand what's going on under the hood, but I can explain some of the strange behavior. If you've got a backlog of garbage (meaning it's on the streets and such,) it charges money per amount of garbage moved/dealt with. It could be that it recalculated some numbers when you reloaded the region and ended up with some kind of a super-heavy month. I'm not sure I get your meaning with the graph inverting (were you getting negative values? huh?) But the garbage system is screwy and crazy. I usually procrastinate and use cheater lots for garbage (there are two in the OP.) If I've got a major city running and plop down a lot, even though the lot itself doesn't charge me money I'll loose maybe $20,000/mo until the trash is picked up. Then, things go back to normal and I barely pay anything. Go figure.
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Apr 13, 2013 15:55
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nielsm posted:Density and wealth are orthogonal. You can have high-wealth mansions housing a single family, which are low density, and you can have giant low-wealth tenements housing thousands, which is high density. This is true, but with a couple of important caveats:
The second point means that if you have an R$$$ mansion with 12 people in it on a 4*4 block of high-density residential zone, negative R$$$ demand, and huge R$ or R$$ demand, then you need to demolish that mansion if you want an R$ or R$$ apartment building to spring up in its place. Even if the mansion is dilapidated and occupied by R$ sims, it will never grow of its own accord into an R$ or R$$ building, regardless of how much it 'wants' to.
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Apr 13, 2013 23:41
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*PUNCH* posted:The garbage system is easily the worst/dumbest system in the game. I also don't understand what's going on under the hood, but I can explain some of the strange behavior. If you've got a backlog of garbage (meaning it's on the streets and such,) it charges money per amount of garbage moved/dealt with. It could be that it recalculated some numbers when you reloaded the region and ended up with some kind of a super-heavy month. I'm not sure I get your meaning with the graph inverting (were you getting negative values? huh?) But the garbage system is screwy and crazy. By inverted, I meant that it looked like the capacity went sky high and the volume bottomed out, inverting their positions. I just found out what actually happened by playing slowly and watching the graphs. So, first the nasty part: I had no garbage handling for 50+ years in that city. Turns out the ceiling, at least for a medium tile, is 60,000 units(?) of garbage. So my city was literally drowning in refuse and diapers from the birth of humanity to current. The result of cranking up the power plant and selling off the excess was that in a short amount of time (few minutes or less at cheetah) the excess garbage was burned off and my waste plant started to run out material to be run on. Though the fun of Sim City kicked in here. Buy all of the neighbor's garbage for cheap, and sell it back it to them at several times that cost as electricity 
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Apr 14, 2013 00:53
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Andrigaar posted:Though the fun of Sim City kicked in here. Buy all of the neighbor's garbage for cheap, and sell it back it to them at several times that cost as electricity Oh, but sending garbage across a city border stuffs a truck full of garbage, and the driver also gets a suitcase full of money to deliver. You pay others to have them take your garbage. Then you pay them again to buy it back as electric power.
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Apr 14, 2013 01:11
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Andrigaar posted:Terrible Garbage Ah, gotcha. I figured you did something to that effect - suddenly dealing with garbage can really destabilize things. I tend to save a bunch as my cities grow (building utilities like health/education late especially) so that when garbage starts to affect demand I can afford to run a huge deficit. If given infinite capacity (which is what the garbage cheater lots do,) all garbage will be cleared within one month. So it's actually a pretty easy debacle to handle; you just have to know what you're doing and anticipate a pretty major loss. I've been experimenting with sequester cuts in my cities lately. It's really not going well at all.
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Apr 14, 2013 01:16
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Okay help me out here because I'm confused. I grabbed RTMT and when it's a silhouette before I lay it down the bus stops etc. appear properly but when I actually place them they become brown boxes. How is that even possible? e; nevermind, apparently there's an "optional" component that is in no way optional 
Ms Adequate fucked around with this message at 14:22 on Apr 17, 2013 |
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Apr 16, 2013 14:28
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So it turns out that a fully optimized road layout in Simcity 4 tends to look like a microprocessor. I'm done. After ten years playing the game on and off I think I've 'beaten' Simcity 4 insofar as a sandbox game can be beaten; I have a city with over 1,000,000 sims. Not region: city.  I decided to take a planned approach to developing my region this time. Basically, I started off by creating a region that was primarily designed to 'feed' the central zone. Here's a satellite picture of the entire region:  Effectively, you've got a central Large City, surrounded by 8 Medium cities, surrounded by a ring of 36 Small Cities. The Medium Cities adjacent to the Large City act as feeder cities; providing a large-capacity (Highway) city connection as well as accounting for industries that would be difficult to place in the central city because of pollution/desirability concerns (Dirty Industry, Manufacturing, and Farmland). I made sure to develop cities in each of the other areas before starting on the central one, and also made sure that I had 1,000,000 people in the region and that I had enough region-wide demand to develop the highest-level skyscrapers before commencing with the central build. Mods used were NAM (with the minimum setting for increasing road capacity), the Bus Stops on Streets tile, one of the garbage disposal mods, the Industrial demand fix, and the fix for the opera house. Mind you, in the end the central city required 15 modded garbage disposal units to operate - and no less than four fusion reactors.  In the end, I relied on a very specific layout of roads in order to ensure that traffic flowed well. As you can see in the newly laid-out commercial area below, highways feed into avenues, which then feed into specially-developed blocks of roads.  Notice that each mini-neighborhood is entirely self-contained, and feeds into the avenue at only one point. Note also that the point that it feeds into the avenue is away from the direction that cars need to go to get to the highway intersection. The same zoning was used for the majority of my res areas. This encourages sims to take the shortest route as the crow flies in order to get to work, namely to hop on public transport by way of the subway rather than doing a massive U-turn. There are bus stations with subways touching them every six tiles everywhere in the city. It was loving tedious...  But it was worth it! Once I got a subway system up and running (it was only really financially possible once about half of the res zones had been implemented - albeit at med density), I started zoning with subways included and using the road layout described above. As you can see, in the period from 200,000 sims to 1,000,000 virtually everyone started using the subway straight off the bat. But what was traffic like overall?  Not perfect. But not bad enough that it affected my city in any meaningful way. Of course that didn't stop the traffic adviser from screaming at me about how horrible the gridlock was every five minutes. I'd pay money for a way to stop the advisers from interrupting gameplay outside of disasters and strike notifications, I really would. Of course the livable traffic was entirely due to my incredibly comprehensive subway system:  Never again. SO TEDIOUS. But how did my sims fare? Previously when I tried to develop a city with max pop, I would develop strictly R$ wastelands with minimum services. I never got close. The current setup? High-tech industry only. Universal police coverage. Universal fire coverage. Universal education at all levels excluding High Schools as with both Universities and Colleges they're largely redundant:  Universal health care:  Happy, healthy, well-protected and educated sims living shoulder to shoulder. Here's how I zoned:  R surrounded on both sides by I and C in order to ensure that travel times were minimized. A Medium-size International Airport in the middle to drive commercial demand. (Given the numbers, I'd be surprised if it were possible to legit upgrade an International airport past Medium, as it would require twice the C population as I had.) A double ring of highway acting as the main arteries, with t-junctions leading into avenues. (The centre-most top-left R zone was a failed experiment in layout; my other R zones had much better traffic flow despite using avenues because of the public transport-encouraging layout I described earlier). The whole kit and kaboodle, including financial information. Note that to get the demand to put me about 1,000,000 people I had to lower all R tax to 8%. This was taken the instant that my population got over a million.  Progressive close-ups:   I might dick around with it a while longer, and am surely going to save the region so that in another couple of years when I reinstall I can play with it some more, but I'm pretty burned out on simcity at the moment. Want to dick around with it yoruself? Mods used: DEDWD_RTBusStops_v101 IH_census_10_78_12_fixed NetworkAddonMod_Version30_Windows_Setup OperaHouse PEG_Garbage-Chute_205-SU SpacePort Fix Mod The region, zipped: http://www.filedropper.com/tirol Breetai fucked around with this message at 14:45 on Apr 17, 2013 |
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Apr 17, 2013 14:40
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Does the steam version have the latest patch installed by default?
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Apr 17, 2013 20:06
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Imapanda posted:Does the steam version have the latest patch installed by default? Yes.
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Apr 17, 2013 20:19
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Breetai posted:I'm done. After ten years playing the game on and off I think I've 'beaten' Simcity 4 insofar as a sandbox game can be beaten; I have a city with over 1,000,000 sims. Ahem...  Subway traffic:  Road traffic:  I believe I can eventually achieve a population of 4 million in this city.
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Apr 17, 2013 21:28
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Holy loving goons.
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Apr 17, 2013 21:34
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This poo poo is almost as bonkers as Magnasanti.
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Apr 17, 2013 21:50
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 poo poo, dude, what mods you running? 
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Apr 17, 2013 23:28
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Breetai posted:
Just the usual stuff from one of the previous mega packs that was posted in the old thread a few months ago. Most of the city follows this pattern:  Although, there is a highway running through the middle, with some continuous roads next to the highway and near the river. Otherwise, everything is connected via subways, with a block of road around each one. If I wanted to do this again (which I don't because it's tedious and boring), I would probably do a different pattern using some optimization a-la Magnasanti.
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Apr 18, 2013 00:09
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What are some ways to encourage my sims to use public transportation or walking to get to their work? Almost everybody in my cities use cars, and my expensive transportation projects are being left largely vacant. 
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Apr 18, 2013 23:55
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Imapanda posted:What are some ways to encourage my sims to use public transportation or walking to get to their work? Almost everybody in my cities use cars, and my expensive transportation projects are being left largely vacant. Do you use parking lots, near your residential areas?
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Apr 19, 2013 03:06
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benzine posted:Do you use parking lots, near your residential areas? No?
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Apr 19, 2013 03:07
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Then one way to male the sims use the mass transit, is to place parking lots near the stations. The sims will drive to the parking lot and use the train, subway. It's even better in a low density area, because you don't need to plop a lot of station to service the neiborhood.
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Apr 19, 2013 03:35
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Imapanda posted:What are some ways to encourage my sims to use public transportation or walking to get to their work? Almost everybody in my cities use cars, and my expensive transportation projects are being left largely vacant. Breetai posted:
*Six tiles being around about the maximum that your average sim will walk to get to public transport.
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Apr 19, 2013 03:44
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Breetai posted:*Six tiles being around about the maximum that your average sim will walk to get to public transport. Even with NAM? I thought sims could walk across the city to get to work with NAM. 
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Apr 19, 2013 04:06
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Saddamnit posted:I believe I can eventually achieve a population of 4 million in this city. If you wanna do it, cut the power lines. I'm serious. Bulldoze the power plant, do what you have to do - evacuate the entire city until population is zero. Wait a month or three. Then, turn it back on. Poor, low-educated sims will start to move into all those abandoned buildings, packing them densely into higher-wealth buildings; the same will be true of the office towers. Population will spike rapidly, then settle into a plateau that's still far higher than the original number. I've doubled populations by doing this. Note that this might not work well without a large region (and large regional demand) to support the rehab until it becomes self-sustaining. Also, I've only done this in one go and without saving so that regional demand remained static; saving, exiting to region, and returning might do something wildly different (and possibly gently caress up all your other cities.) The highest I've gotten personally is something like 2.4 million, but I've never tried very hard.
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Apr 19, 2013 04:47
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Imapanda posted:Even with NAM? Dunno; I've not really looked at the NAM documentation to see if that's changed, but doing it like that works for me. That being said, sims loving LOVE subways. Look at my megacity: I started putting subways in when I only had the bottom-right, bottom-left, and mid-upper-left residential areas zoned; starting with the bottom-right one, and progressively adding them to the other R areas as finances allowed. People would take the bus from the mid-upper-left R zone to the bottom-right one, hop on a subway, and take it to the central commercial district. Like, thousands of buses worth of people. Sims REALLY loving LOVE SUBWAYS.
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Apr 19, 2013 07:11
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Can we get the traffic graph of that city? It looks delicious.
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Apr 19, 2013 07:17
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TehKeen posted:Can we get the traffic graph of that city? It looks delicious. Check my post like half a page up. e: here yuh go:
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Apr 19, 2013 07:44
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M.Ciaster posted:This poo poo is almost as bonkers as Magnasanti. I dunno, Magnasanti is on a whole other plane of insanity. The dude spent like a year and a half doing density calculations and drawing up theoretical designs by hand. The notebook he kept all his notes in is the kind of poo poo you find in a serial killer's home after he finally gets caught. drat if it wasn't impressive though.
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Apr 19, 2013 07:54
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NAM version 31.1 has been released, which fixes all of the crashing issues and bigs from the original version 31 release. Now you can enjoy getting all the NAM addons and custom stations all in one download. 
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Apr 19, 2013 10:23
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Great, but how do we download it?
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Apr 19, 2013 17:35
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You have to log in for the download link to appear. It's a different log in from the sc4devotion forums. Yes, it's stupid.
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Apr 19, 2013 18:20
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I like how they're now calling version 31 an "open beta"...
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Apr 19, 2013 19:54
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Guessing for those of us with just Sim City, with no RH, the new NAM doesn't work?
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Apr 20, 2013 08:52
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Jastiger posted:Guessing for those of us with just Sim City, with no RH, the new NAM doesn't work? Just SimCity4 with no rush hour means that Simcity doesn't work. It's $20 on Steam for the Deluxe Edition that includes the Rush Hour expansion and the latest patching, and is well worth the purchase price as it gives you transport and zoning options that are frankly vital. iirc NAM has needed Rush Hour for the last 5 years at least.
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Apr 20, 2013 08:59
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I know Jastiger's wallet is under house arrest, but for info the Deluxe PC download version is also available for $15.16 on Amazon.
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Apr 21, 2013 22:39
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If you can wait a month or so, the Steam summer sale will knock it down to $5 or less.
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Apr 22, 2013 22:27
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I just reinstalled this again after a long time and put in NAM as well. Does NAM do anything to make the beginning of the game easier? I remember really struggling to grow my city in the past but now am struggling to keep up with R and I demand, I don't have to worry about taxes or pollution or anything, it's just seemingly constantly growing demand, and I'm pretty sure I haven't gotten any better.
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Apr 23, 2013 04:23
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Mozi posted:I just reinstalled this again after a long time and put in NAM as well. Does NAM do anything to make the beginning of the game easier? I remember really struggling to grow my city in the past but now am struggling to keep up with R and I demand, I don't have to worry about taxes or pollution or anything, it's just seemingly constantly growing demand, and I'm pretty sure I haven't gotten any better. Did you start with a blank canvas, or were there cities already in place in your region from the last time you played? Demand caps are regional as well as city-wide. Also, is this your first time playing with Rush Hour? Rush Hour's Hard mode is about on par with plain SC4's easy mode in terms of how hard it is to attract sims and industry.
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Apr 24, 2013 13:03
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Guess what is daily deal on steam?
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Apr 28, 2013 19:01
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