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gvibes
Jan 18, 2010

Leading us to the promised land (i.e., one tournament win in five years)

Robo-Pope posted:

There seem to be a lot of people in real estate-related businesses who have no concept of how to appear professional when using technology. Or in general. My favorite are the listings where the seller's agent blatantly suggests (in the listing!) they don't care if you offer half the listing price, they just want to offload the drat thing.
When I receive my REALTOR's e-mails an iOS device, there are fireballs next to his name. I didn't even know that was possible.

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lord1234
Oct 1, 2008
True story, my mother, who is also my realtor for the sale of my house, recently got told she was "crazy" by a fellow broker when we denied their offer.

Cocoa Ninja
Mar 3, 2007

gvibes posted:

When I receive my REALTOR's e-mails an iOS device, there are fireballs next to his name. I didn't even know that was possible.

Maybe your realtor's evolving into his final, super-saiyan form?

I Love You!
Dec 6, 2002

gvibes posted:

When I receive my REALTOR's e-mails an iOS device, there are fireballs next to his name. I didn't even know that was possible.

I wish i was cool enough to have fireballs next to my client e-mails :(

canyoneer
Sep 13, 2005


I only have canyoneyes for you

FISHMANPET posted:

Like, how can you be so bad at your job?

That's been my experience with 95% of the "professionals" involved in the process of buying a home.

The Wells Fargo branch manager I spoke with didn't know that you could take a distribution from an IRA for a "first-time home purchase" without a tax penalty. :what:

Robo-Pope
Feb 28, 2007

It has big taste.

canyoneer posted:

That's been my experience with 95% of the "professionals" involved in the process of buying a home.

The Wells Fargo branch manager I spoke with didn't know that you could take a distribution from an IRA for a "first-time home purchase" without a tax penalty. :what:

This is why the internet is great. I highly recommend anyone getting involved in this do their own research on everything possible. I even picked out the homes to look at myself--my realtor's only role was to set up viewings, submit paperwork, and give minor advice on the offer process. My loan officer obviously took care of loan approval, terms, and PMI. Everything else was just me, the internet, the real estate lawyer I occasionally consulted with contract questions, and the tax professional I consulted to confirm tax information I read on the internet.

Randomly
Jan 20, 2013

canyoneer posted:

That's been my experience with 95% of the "professionals" involved in the process of buying a home.

The Wells Fargo branch manager I spoke with didn't know that you could take a distribution from an IRA for a "first-time home purchase" without a tax penalty. :what:


In defense, Wells Fargo bank branch managers are experts at bank programs and horrible people to talk to for tax advice. Good news is that they know it now.

Dik Hz
Feb 22, 2004

Fun with Science

Kakairo posted:

I don't know if this has been addressed previously (only started following about 10 pages ago), but I have more of an etiquette question. I have been looking at condos in and around Oak Park, IL, with a realtor, and after seeing several units this weekend I've decided that I'm just not ready (price range doesn't give me what I want, not sure about upkeep, serious relationship with a single mom that could lead to us living together in a year or so, etc.). I feel bad for my realtor because he researched and found several properties in my price range and has been a good guy through all of this. I know his pay comes from commission, which he's not getting here. Should I pay something as a token of appreciation, or is that sort of thing just not done?
Just be polite. It isn't anything he haven't heard before. If you're happy with his performance, the best thing you can do is refer him to your friends.

Elephanthead
Sep 11, 2008


Toilet Rascal

Dik Hz posted:

Just be polite. It isn't anything he haven't heard before. If you're happy with his performance, the best thing you can do is refer him to your friends.

The reason the commissions are so high is because client acquisition is 80% of the costs they incur. Do you really think they should earn 3.5% of the value of the house by showing it to you for half and hour and spending 5 minutes filling in a generic sales contract? No they earn that because sometimes they waste weeks and make nothing. That is the business of sales. They know word of mouth is worth more then 1000 print ads on shopping carts.

pr0k
Jan 16, 2001

"Well if it's gonna be
that kind of party..."
Ok, here's my situation.

I have a house, not underwater, A-OK. There's a house that will be coming to market that we like. Wife met lady through craigslist type buying/selling stuff. Bought a chair from there. Remarked on house. Lady mentions they're fixing up for sale. Says they're not in a hurry, but are remodeling master bath, then will get house back on market in a month or so. They have another house in the area that they're underwater on and they had to evict the renter. She also (boy does she talk a lot!) mentions a potential price that's about 10% over what the house should probably go for.

Another thing, I signed a six-month agreement with a buyer broker, I'm pretty sure that's over, but we're still in touch with her.

This is kind of a long shot, but:

1. Should I consider approaching the owners with a sale-by-owner offer? 4% of the sale price is not chump change. However, if they don't go to market/MLS they're
likely to not take a low offer. Would that hurt my position if they reject my offer?

2. I also need to sell my house to buy it of course, I assume I'd need an agent/broker and want MLS listing to get the highest price for me. Would that be an issue for the broker/agent that I used them for the sale but not the purchase?

3. Buyer broker...if I need to sell my house do they do that or do I have to hire them as an agent? Do I care what the difference is?

4. Should I continue this line of thinking or just get an agent and stop being a dumbass?

sullat
Jan 9, 2012

canyoneer posted:

That's been my experience with 95% of the "professionals" involved in the process of buying a home.

The Wells Fargo branch manager I spoke with didn't know that you could take a distribution from an IRA for a "first-time home purchase" without a tax penalty. :what:

Technically speaking, you only get $10,000 free of the 10% penalty.

Pub 590 posted:

Even if you are under age 59 1/2, you do not have to pay the 10% additional tax on up to $10,000 of distributions you receive to buy, build, or rebuild a first home.

CitizenKain
May 27, 2001

That was Gary Cooper, asshole.

Nap Ghost

Robo-Pope posted:

Hey, so did I!

There seem to be a lot of people in real estate-related businesses who have no concept of how to appear professional when using technology. Or in general. My favorite are the listings where the seller's agent blatantly suggests (in the listing!) they don't care if you offer half the listing price, they just want to offload the drat thing.

This has been a small mystery to me on why realtors and anyone renting out apartments can't be assed to spend a few minutes getting decent pictures. If I look at a place online and the only photos are blurry stamp sized images from a dirt all cellphone, how much effort are they piutting into the rest of this?

basx
Aug 16, 2004

Sassy old man!

pr0k posted:

4. Should I continue this line of thinking or just get an agent and stop being a dumbass?

Would you hire a travel agent in 2013?

You can pay a few hundred to list on MLS and do everything else yourself. Truth is, there isn't that much a seller's agent has to offer in 2013.

As someone mentioned a few post above, most of their commission is making up for all the failed deals, not providing you with value.

Why should you pay for all the time they spend with other people who ultimately pay nothing?

I sold my house FSBO several months ago, paid 2% to a buyer's agent, and saved thousands. I did very little that I wouldn't have had to do anyway if I'd hired an agent.

SlapActionJackson
Jul 27, 2006

basx posted:

You can pay a few hundred to list on MLS and do everything else yourself.

In most locales, you can't get posting access to the MLS or the full details of listings unless you're a member of the cartel.

I'm floored that anywhere would you have that access for a few hundred (the MLS is the last real valuable service brokers have to offer to sellers and they know it, so they tend to fight like crazy to preserve their advantage). But if you can, then by all means FSBO is a whole lot more attractive than it typically is.

basx
Aug 16, 2004

Sassy old man!

SlapActionJackson posted:

In most locales, you can't get posting access to the MLS or the full details of listings unless you're a member of the cartel.

I'm floored that anywhere would you have that access for a few hundred (the MLS is the last real valuable service brokers have to offer to sellers and they know it, so they tend to fight like crazy to preserve their advantage). But if you can, then by all means FSBO is a whole lot more attractive than it typically is.

There are dozens of services that offer this. Just google flat fee mls. They go through local agents who toss it up for a fixed price and offer other services ala carte.

Best $350 I ever spent.

I Love You!
Dec 6, 2002

basx posted:

Would you hire a travel agent in 2013?

You can pay a few hundred to list on MLS and do everything else yourself. Truth is, there isn't that much a seller's agent has to offer in 2013.

As someone mentioned a few post above, most of their commission is making up for all the failed deals, not providing you with value.

Why should you pay for all the time they spend with other people who ultimately pay nothing?

I sold my house FSBO several months ago, paid 2% to a buyer's agent, and saved thousands. I did very little that I wouldn't have had to do anyway if I'd hired an agent.

Honestly this is often the case but is not universally true. A really skilled marketer can do a LOT to assist with the sales price of a home, but an average (or poor) agent is probably not worth your time or money.

The person you are referencing above was talking about buyer's agency, not seller's agency. A seller's agent has a much higher conversion rate but also incurs a lot more costs along the way since they tend to share in some of the marketing budget.

I'm not going to be one to tell you whether you should go with a Realtor or not since there are a lot of factors that go into that decision. However, if it's a situation where you are looking to do things such as remodal/refurbish portions of your house to attract top-end buyers, or are targeting a particular demographic/looking to differentiate yourself from similar houses, it can be very valuable to have a top-quality Realtor. IF you can find one. Otherwise you will probably save money going FSBO and pay a flat-fee for MLS if your goal is just to sell quickly. There are also discount Realtors if you just want someone to list your stuff for you and handle paperwork, but their service is often sketchy and in a lot of cases you're better off doing things yourself and just hiring a Real Estate Lawyer.

pr0k posted:

Ok, here's my situation.
1. Should I consider approaching the owners with a sale-by-owner offer? 4% of the sale price is not chump change. However, if they don't go to market/MLS they're
likely to not take a low offer. Would that hurt my position if they reject my offer?

2. I also need to sell my house to buy it of course, I assume I'd need an agent/broker and want MLS listing to get the highest price for me. Would that be an issue for the broker/agent that I used them for the sale but not the purchase?

3. Buyer broker...if I need to sell my house do they do that or do I have to hire them as an agent? Do I care what the difference is?

4. Should I continue this line of thinking or just get an agent and stop being a dumbass?

1. Yes, lowballing can be seen as insulting or unreasonable and can hurt your chances, but it depends on the seller. If they don't have an agent under contract then yeah, you can go the FSBO route with them. Check if you are under contract with your old broker first though! They'll almost certainly let you out if you ask but there are potential annoying legal issues that COULD pop up (even if they probably won't) if you're contracted and buy a house without them.

2. No, there is no problem with this. Seller and buyer agency are different things entirely.

3. A broker is basically an agent with more responsibilities and power/knowledge. They are often much busier, however, and don't guarantee better service.

4. There is a lot to consider, and doing research is good. I fired you a PM if you want to bounce stuff off me since I can at least answer a bunch from the agency/research and stats side of things.

I Love You! fucked around with this message at 01:37 on Apr 17, 2013

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

I'm scheduled to close on a townhouse on April 26, so less than two weeks to closing and my loan officer sends me an email yesterday saying there is a problem with my HoA's master insurance policy that I need to fix immediately. This was the first I had heard about this and I sent them the master insurance policy almost a month ago, so I email them back asking for more information and include the loan processor on the email since she is the one I've been working with directly to get all the documents and stuff ready for closing.

The loan processor emails me back and says that SHE is working on getting the master insurance policy fixed. To me it seems very odd that the mortgage company would be able to or even be trying to fix my HoA's insurance policy. Is stuff like this normal? Should I be starting to figure out a backup plan since I HAVE to be out of my current place by the end of April?

This is too stressful.

ChristsDickWorship
Dec 7, 2004

Annihilate your demons



This is a question largely for lenders I guess, but any self-employed contractors who have been in a similar spot might be able to help as well:

I'm a self-employed contractor (sole-proprietorship), but I've never technically filed my taxes as 100% self-employed. I am also an IATSE union member and because of the labor contracts they have with local venues and promoters, all checks through union jobs come as W-2s for me, even though I am really just contracted for the day to work. On paper, I am paid as an employee by several companies, with W-2s and benefit contributions, but I don't actually have any kind of relationship that most people would consider employment. I schedule all my work by my own discretion, first come, first serve as though it were all freelance, and what the union hires me to do isn't much different than what I do as a freelancer.

Last year I made about $60k. My business made ~$35k profit, plus I filed about $25k in W-2s as personal income. I've made $50k-$60k/year like this for the past several years, with my business profit starting at about 15% of my total income 5 years ago and growing to more than 50% of it now.

I have a few leads for local work in the area I'm hoping to move to, but no companies are going to commit to calling me an employee in this business, (without a strong union presence), and even if everything goes perfectly according to plan, I will be taking an income hit because the local wages are lower (just like the cost of living). In reality I'm keeping 70% of my income (my traveling freelance income before expenses) and losing the 30% I made up locally last year, but on paper it looks like I'm quitting full-time employment and hoping that my small business grows to pick up the slack.

If it matters, I'm shopping in the ~$175k range and can clean out an investment account I'm not really happy with to make a 20% down payment and probably still keep $10k or so in the bank.

So my question is how much of a problem is my income situation going to be when I look for a mortgage lender? Should I get that money out of the fund and into my savings account before I try to pre-qual for loans? Would saving for another year really make a difference in what my financing options are, or would I just open myself to potentially higher interest rates?

Soun
Jun 24, 2004

wixard posted:

This is a question largely for lenders I guess, but any self-employed contractors who have been in a similar spot might be able to help as well:

I'm a self-employed contractor (sole-proprietorship), but I've never technically filed my taxes as 100% self-employed. I am also an IATSE union member and because of the labor contracts they have with local venues and promoters, all checks through union jobs come as W-2s for me, even though I am really just contracted for the day to work. On paper, I am paid as an employee by several companies, with W-2s and benefit contributions, but I don't actually have any kind of relationship that most people would consider employment. I schedule all my work by my own discretion, first come, first serve as though it were all freelance, and what the union hires me to do isn't much different than what I do as a freelancer.

Last year I made about $60k. My business made ~$35k profit, plus I filed about $25k in W-2s as personal income. I've made $50k-$60k/year like this for the past several years, with my business profit starting at about 15% of my total income 5 years ago and growing to more than 50% of it now.

I have a few leads for local work in the area I'm hoping to move to, but no companies are going to commit to calling me an employee in this business, (without a strong union presence), and even if everything goes perfectly according to plan, I will be taking an income hit because the local wages are lower (just like the cost of living). In reality I'm keeping 70% of my income (my traveling freelance income before expenses) and losing the 30% I made up locally last year, but on paper it looks like I'm quitting full-time employment and hoping that my small business grows to pick up the slack.

If it matters, I'm shopping in the ~$175k range and can clean out an investment account I'm not really happy with to make a 20% down payment and probably still keep $10k or so in the bank.

So my question is how much of a problem is my income situation going to be when I look for a mortgage lender? Should I get that money out of the fund and into my savings account before I try to pre-qual for loans? Would saving for another year really make a difference in what my financing options are, or would I just open myself to potentially higher interest rates?

I've been self-employed my whole life, and I had to jump through a lot of hoops to buy a house. There are a few things I learned about the process, which may help you.

First, it's important to understand how income is calculated. From my understanding, they take your current W-2 income based on recent paystubs (and they want to see these up until you close). Then they add your 1099 income by taking your last 2 tax returns and averaging them. You said you made 35k from 1099 and 25k from W-2 in 2012, and that the 1099 has been slowly increasing. Throwing out some made-up numbers, lets say it was more like 30k from each in 2011. Your current income would likely be calculated as: 30k + 35k / 2 = 32.5k (average of 2011 and 2012 1099 income), plus 25k (current W-2 income) = 57.5k.

The problem you may face as W-2 income decreases and 1099 income increases, is that a decrease in W-2 income has an immediate negative effect on your calculated income, whereas an increase in 1099 income has a delayed positive effect. In my example, if your W-2 income stopped today, your income would only be calculated as 32.5k until you were able to file this year's tax return.

What I ended up doing was putting myself on payroll (W-2) from my own company. To find out what my salary needed to be, I called up a lender, gave them my price range and other information, and basically asked what I needed my salary to be. Once I closed on the house I stopped the payroll and it was back to business as usual. Overall I'd estimate that it cost me maybe $1,000 in extra taxes/fees (like unemployment contributions) but it was totally worth it to be able to follow the "happy path" of the mortgage process.

As for your savings, I don't think it will matter too much what kind of account it's in, so long as you can prove it was yours to begin with. Having 10k left after down payment seems really low however, especially if you aren't factoring in that your down payment will also include a year of property tax and insurance, as well as other costs related to closing.

Elephanthead
Sep 11, 2008


Toilet Rascal

wixard posted:

This is a question largely for lenders I guess, but any self-employed contractors who have been in a similar spot might be able to help as well:


It takes longer to get closed if you are self employed. I just refinanced and I am 100 self employed. Lenders seem to go crazy for K1s and tax returns though so if you have those you should be fine. I told the lender I could print a K1 that said anything off the internet in 3 seconds but they seem undeterred in insisting I send them one from my partnership. I already had the managing partner send them a letter detailing my expected share of income and distributions for 2013, but the K1 made them happier. Conclusion, banks are still to big to fail.

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

wixard posted:

Should I get that money out of the fund and into my savings account before I try to pre-qual for loans?

There's no need to do this. For qualifying, you can include any accounts you have and the contents of them, including retirement accounts. Banks are perfectly fine with you cleaning out your retirement, paying penalties for early withdrawal, etc. They'll take penalties and stuff into account. Basically what they want to see is how much available money you have, what your income is, and what your credit is like. Exactly where your money is sitting isn't that important.

ChristsDickWorship
Dec 7, 2004

Annihilate your demons



Soun posted:

First, it's important to understand how income is calculated. ...

What I ended up doing was putting myself on payroll (W-2) from my own company. To find out what my salary needed to be, I called up a lender, gave them my price range and other information, and basically asked what I needed my salary to be. Once I closed on the house I stopped the payroll and it was back to business as usual. Overall I'd estimate that it cost me maybe $1,000 in extra taxes/fees (like unemployment contributions) but it was totally worth it to be able to follow the "happy path" of the mortgage process.
That's... unfortunate. Had I known that, maybe I wouldn't have spent so much time finding things to write off this year and left my profit up on my tax return. I can possibly game this as well if they're more concerned with recent stub amounts, than year to date earnings. My biggest "employers" only send me checks when I send them timesheets, maybe I should stop sending them for a couple months until I really start shopping for homes.

Also I'm thinking my bank (Wells Fargo) is the best place to start since they've actually seen the checks and direct deposits go into my account over the last 7 or 8 years, and they like to come out from behind the glass and offer me lines of credit when I go into my local branch to get $100 bills. They came through when every other credit card I applied for got rejected a few years ago (I'm that guy who managed to live without a credit card until he was 29, including purchasing my first 2 cars), and they actually gave me a decent credit limit.

quote:

As for your savings, I don't think it will matter too much what kind of account it's in, so long as you can prove it was yours to begin with. Having 10k left after down payment seems really low however, especially if you aren't factoring in that your down payment will also include a year of property tax and insurance, as well as other costs related to closing.
I was hoping I could qualify for more loan than I need and roll closing costs into the mortgage but I'll probably have more cash on hand to deal with that by the end of the summer if I need it. Basically I would have $10k right now after cleaning out that account and putting $35k down, but I just paid cash for an expensive piece of gear for my business a month ago, just cut a big check for taxes, and so far I have ~$15k worth of work on my calendar before the end of May. I also just put $3k into my car, and the only $2500 on my credit card bill is travel expenses I'll be reimbursed for soon. It's a drat shame I can't show recent invoices as proof of income...

Elephanthead posted:

It takes longer to get closed if you are self employed. I just refinanced and I am 100 self employed. Lenders seem to go crazy for K1s and tax returns though so if you have those you should be fine. I told the lender I could print a K1 that said anything off the internet in 3 seconds but they seem undeterred in insisting I send them one from my partnership. I already had the managing partner send them a letter detailing my expected share of income and distributions for 2013, but the K1 made them happier. Conclusion, banks are still to big to fail.
Hmm. Never heard of a K1, it's never come up with my sole proprietorship. Thanks, I'll have to look into that.

Leperflesh posted:

There's no need to do this. For qualifying, you can include any accounts you have and the contents of them, including retirement accounts. Banks are perfectly fine with you cleaning out your retirement, paying penalties for early withdrawal, etc. They'll take penalties and stuff into account. Basically what they want to see is how much available money you have, what your income is, and what your credit is like. Exactly where your money is sitting isn't that important.
Thanks for the info, and for reminding me I should take a look at my union retirement fund. I don't think there's much in it, but its another account I wouldn't mind cleaning out and putting into a house.

Thanks for the replies guys, I'll probably be back with more questions unless I manage to talk myself out of this soon!

Elephanthead
Sep 11, 2008


Toilet Rascal
You only get a K1 from a partnership (or other entity) that files its own tax return. It is your share of the profit or loss and other deductions. As a sole proprietorship all you have is your individual tax return, schedule C I think. Same thing.

therobit
Aug 19, 2008

I've been tryin' to speak with you for a long time
I underwrite home equity and not mortgages, but I work for a larger institution and on my side of things we want to see the tax returns for self employed income. With the union stuff we would want two years of w2s, and the paystubs from all current employers and we would take a two year average. With the self employment it all depends on how you file it but on Sched c we take line 12 income and then we add back in depreciation and depletion. Again we would use a two year average unless there is a wild upswing in which case we might blend it down a little, and in the case of 2012 being lower than 2011 we would take the lower figure. We flat out won't consider self employed income if there is less than two years self employed, as it represents too big a risk. I would encourage you to speak with a mortgage banker or broker though as this is all on consumer lending and not a mortgage shop.

A lot of places won't accept tax returns that are not signed and some require them to be professionally prepared for self employment.

Randomly
Jan 20, 2013
Pretty much everything everyone has said is true. Yes, writing everything off hurts your income. Union income is w-2. We verify tax returns behind the scenes so faking it won't work. As a lender for the bank you're considering, come on down. If you go talk to a home mortgage guy, they will get you prequalified for the max purchase price. If you don't think the amount is enough, you can go work on changing a few things but at least you'll have a starting point.

Captain Windex
Apr 10, 2005
It'll clean anything.
Pillbug

Soun posted:

What I ended up doing was putting myself on payroll (W-2) from my own company. To find out what my salary needed to be, I called up a lender, gave them my price range and other information, and basically asked what I needed my salary to be. Once I closed on the house I stopped the payroll and it was back to business as usual. Overall I'd estimate that it cost me maybe $1,000 in extra taxes/fees (like unemployment contributions) but it was totally worth it to be able to follow the "happy path" of the mortgage process.

If you're self employed we're not going to really care what your "salary" is currently. We'll look at the last 2 years of tax returns including any W2 wages, K-1s, schedule C, etc that you file with the IRS to determine your income. Depending on the type of loan and the lender we may request a year to date profit and loss statement, but for the most part that's just used to support that your income YTD is in line with the tax returns, we don't use it to justify actually giving you a higher income. We verify the figures on your tax returns with the IRS as well.

For the guy who gets W2 union wages as well as schedule C - pretty much what therobit said. We'd look at your last 2 years of W2s plus any YTD stubs for your union gigs to figure out the overall trend and qualify accordingly. Schedule C would be looked at separately for the last 2 years off your tax returns validated with the IRS.

sullat
Jan 9, 2012

therobit posted:

I underwrite home equity and not mortgages, but I work for a larger institution and on my side of things we want to see the tax returns for self employed income. With the union stuff we would want two years of w2s, and the paystubs from all current employers and we would take a two year average. With the self employment it all depends on how you file it but on Sched c we take line 12 income and then we add back in depreciation and depletion. Again we would use a two year average unless there is a wild upswing in which case we might blend it down a little, and in the case of 2012 being lower than 2011 we would take the lower figure. We flat out won't consider self employed income if there is less than two years self employed, as it represents too big a risk. I would encourage you to speak with a mortgage banker or broker though as this is all on consumer lending and not a mortgage shop.

A lot of places won't accept tax returns that are not signed and some require them to be professionally prepared for self employment.

Man, when I was in the industry, it was just "how much do you think you'll make? OK, just add 10% to that and we'll call it good." It was a magical time, shovelling loans out the door as fast as we could. I do miss them sometimes.

pr0k
Jan 16, 2001

"Well if it's gonna be
that kind of party..."

sullat posted:

Man, when I was in the industry, it was just "how much do you think you'll make? OK, just add 10% to that and we'll call it good." It was a magical time, shovelling loans out the door as fast as we could. I do miss them sometimes.

As someone that wants to buy a bigger house and can't because of the still-grossly-inflated prices...well, you can imagine what I'm thinking right now.

Twerk from Home
Jan 17, 2009

This avatar brought to you by the 'save our dead gay forums' foundation.
I cannot wait to be done with renting. My girlfriend and I are extending our lease by a couple months to allow plenty of time for builders and closing to finish, and the rents even for year-long lease terms have gone up 10%. They also went up 10% the year before that. It's at the point where in our area it costs more to rent a 600 sq ft shithole 1 bedroom apartment with a 7 foot ceiling in the bathroom / hallway than the mortgage + tax + insurance on a 2300 sq ft standalone house. I think I may actually do the impossible and save money by buying. How many years in a row can this giant complex keep raising the rent 10% before people just leave?

We are buying because we like the area, want a house, and are stable here. We're not expecting to save money, but it just might happen.

Twerk from Home fucked around with this message at 17:32 on Apr 18, 2013

slap me silly
Nov 1, 2009
Grimey Drawer
Rent has been rising fast in my area too, because so many more people have had to rent instead of buying in the last few years. The rent versus buy math can definitely go either way. But you can't compare rent with mortgage + tax + insurance. You have to compare rent with mortgage + tax + insurance + maintenance + transaction costs - income tax savings (and maybe some other things I missed).

ExtrudeAlongCurve
Oct 21, 2010

Lambert is my Homeboy

Weinertron posted:

I cannot wait to be done with renting. My girlfriend and I are extending our lease by a couple months to allow plenty of time for builders and closing to finish, and the rents even for year-long lease terms have gone up 10%. They also went up 10% the year before that. It's at the point where in our area it costs more to rent a 600 sq ft shithole 1 bedroom apartment with a 7 foot ceiling in the bathroom / hallway than the mortgage + tax + insurance on a 2300 sq ft standalone house. I think I may actually do the impossible and save money by buying. How many years in a row can this giant complex keep raising the rent 10% before people just leave?

We are buying because we like the area, want a house, and are stable here. We're not expecting to save money, but it just might happen.

Do you... live in the same awful apartment complex I do in suburban MA? 'cause this sounds exactly like my situation. The renting situation in this particular complex is just completely absurd at this point. The amount they are trying to charge us (for a tiny 600 ft 1 bedroom in the basement level) next lease renewal is enough to rent a 2 bedroom much closer to the city and actually, you know, close to anything rather than suburban nowhere.

Now we just need the "buying a house that is an estate being sold by completely incompetent people" situation to resolve itself. Our lawyer and their lawyer keeps finding new forms and petitions the owner forgot and/or didn't know they had to do.

razz
Dec 26, 2005

Queen of Maceration

Weinertron posted:

How many years in a row can this giant complex keep raising the rent 10% before people just leave?

I kinda wonder that about the town I live in. It's a Midwestern college town and while my rent is cheap because I got lucky with my living situation, it's pretty crappy for everyone else. Average for a 2 bedroom place is probably around $900 + utilities. That may seem cheap if you're used to living on the coast or something, but it's 25-50% more than every other nearby town or other college towns in my state. I can rent a 3 bedroom house in my hometown for $500. I've seen one bedrooms or studios as cheap as $175 there.

Also, there are a few rental companies in this town that own a LOT of houses. So your options for actually buying a house in this town are very limited as they never come up for sale. So you either buy an overpriced house in town (since rent is inflated, the housing costs are inflated because sellers assume you are buying to rent it out - most of the ads state how much you could rent the house out for), or you move into one of the crappy McMansion suburbs a couple miles outside of town, and still pay out the rear end for it because apparently no one wants to build a normal sized 2 or 3 bedroom house anymore.

Robo-Pope
Feb 28, 2007

It has big taste.

slap me silly posted:

Rent has been rising fast in my area too, because so many more people have had to rent instead of buying in the last few years. The rent versus buy math can definitely go either way. But you can't compare rent with mortgage + tax + insurance. You have to compare rent with mortgage + tax + insurance + maintenance + transaction costs - income tax savings (and maybe some other things I missed).

Assuming you have the cashflow, you should also subtract equity gain. If rent = total mortgage payment for a 30-year fixed loan, I would buy like crazy assuming equal quality and location.

baquerd
Jul 2, 2007

by FactsAreUseless

Robo-Pope posted:

Assuming you have the cashflow, you should also subtract equity gain. If rent = total mortgage payment for a 30-year fixed loan, I would buy like crazy assuming equal quality and location.

It's to the point in many areas where rent = 1.5x mortgage payment. It's still a ridiculously good time to buy, and I'm really annoyed I need another year to build a down payment.

Insane Totoro
Dec 5, 2005

Take cover!!!
That Totoro has an AR-15!
My rent is more than my inbound monthly mortgage payment. Even if you include property taxes, it's stunningly close.

The house is twice the size of my apartment, etc.

Astro7x
Aug 4, 2004
Thinks It's All Real

Weinertron posted:

I cannot wait to be done with renting. My girlfriend and I are extending our lease by a couple months to allow plenty of time for builders and closing to finish, and the rents even for year-long lease terms have gone up 10%. They also went up 10% the year before that. It's at the point where in our area it costs more to rent a 600 sq ft shithole 1 bedroom apartment with a 7 foot ceiling in the bathroom / hallway than the mortgage + tax + insurance on a 2300 sq ft standalone house. I think I may actually do the impossible and save money by buying. How many years in a row can this giant complex keep raising the rent 10% before people just leave?

We are buying because we like the area, want a house, and are stable here. We're not expecting to save money, but it just might happen.

Keep in mind that while your P/I will remain the same, insurance and taxes do go up over time.

I Might Be Adam
Jun 12, 2007

Skip the Waves, Syncopate
Forwards Backwards

The housing market in Houston has changed in the year that we've been looking. It used to be a buyer's market but recently, the good listings only last a matter of days before they are under contract. The inventory of decent move-in ready houses in the inner city area has shrunk, leaving only shambled houses selling for lot value.

We rent a decent sized 2br apartment in an area mostly filled with rich yuppies and young trust funders but it's close to my wife's job and we like the area. Our rent just went up $150/m and the kind of people renting in our building have changed from being average singles and couples to late-night partying, BMW driving, loud and annoying assholes.

We'll never be able to afford anything in the area but what makes it so difficult is that my job is about 20 miles outside the city. We have no desire to move closer to my job because the area is poo poo but moving to any desirable area outside of the city basically gives me a god-awful commute. Only thing we can really do is save for another few years and hope that the market doesn't go crazy and our rent doesn't skyrocket in that time.

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

Every market is different of course, but I am guessing that in a lot of the US markets where there's suddenly a strong seller's market, things are going to ease up starting around 8 or 9 months from now. Mostly because of new housing construction. New home starts plummeted in 2008 and by 2009 there were hardly any going on across the country. A big rent crunch developed as people got foreclosed on and lost their houses, but still needed places to live and moved into the rental market. Additionally, the backlog of foreclosures and the poor selling environment ensured a high vacancy rate, as houses sat empty waiting to be sold and occupied.

Now, 4+ years later, there's 4+ years of pent-up demand. The population has grown, young couples got married and wanted homes, people are getting back to work and getting their finances in order, and most of the foreclosure inventory has been cleaned out so there's a decreasing number of below-market fire sales going on. And in the meantime, total inventory has barely risen at all across the country.

But builders are getting back to work and housing starts have taken a number of large jumps in recent months. A ton of homes are getting started now, which will go on the market in the fall, and builders are doubtlessly focusing on the markets where prices are rising and sales are fast.

So my feeling is that this fall, and even more so next year, new construction is going to start to alleviate the pressure in the best-selling markets and things may ease up just a bit as the backlog of buyers who waited out the downturn looking for the market to bottom, jump on still super-low interest rates and try to get into a house before they go up. A lot of those people will buy throughout this summer.

So I dunno if that's super reassuring, and of course nobody can predict the future, but I wouldn't despair of affording a house a year or two from now even if you live in a market that's rapidly rising right now.

mhsneon
Jul 2, 2005

I work for Intel but AMD makes me hot
We am looking at buying the house I am renting from our landlord. We have been renting it for 2.5years now, we sold our old house a year ago so are thinking about buying again. He brought it up to us recently, he said he was wondering if we were interested, but if we are not, he doesn't plan to sell.

It would be nice not to have to use realtors for this transaction to save him money which would hopefully save me money. Are there agents out there that charge less or a type of person that just deals in transactions like these?

Also we still need to negotiate on a price. We are planning on basing it on some similar houses in our neighborhood which have sold or are for sale, then subtracting all the upgrades they have, our house needs updating and minor repairs(something they would need to do to sell the house on the normal market). Also since we are avoiding the normal realtor fees should also be able to knock some off. I am already approved for a mortgage for more then this house is worth, so not worried about that part of it.

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slap me silly
Nov 1, 2009
Grimey Drawer
You like the house, I gather? Your landlord probably has an information advantage that could cost you money, so at least get some expertise on your side - a BPO or appraisal to decide the offer price, a lawyer to review the offer contract, inspections, etc. Sounds like you can do all that at your leisure, which is convenient.

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