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this troper posted:A friend of mine keeps claiming I can take a single Crisis Shas'Vre suit and put him with a unit of Fire Warriors or whatever, and I told him you can't because it's not an Independent Character but he's convinced you can. Am I the one wrong here, can you really do it? Nope. If you could do that Mephiston and Crowe would be way better.
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Apr 19, 2013 03:52
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Went 0-3 today. Two 2k games, one 3k. I'm loving done with Dark Angels until I can figure out a list that doesn't loving suck poo poo.
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Apr 19, 2013 04:18
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this troper posted:A friend of mine keeps claiming I can take a single Crisis Shas'Vre suit and put him with a unit of Fire Warriors or whatever, and I told him you can't because it's not an Independent Character but he's convinced you can. Am I the one wrong here, can you really do it? Baruch Obamawitz posted:Went 0-3 today. Two 2k games, one 3k. I'm loving done with Dark Angels until I can figure out a list that doesn't loving suck poo poo.
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Apr 19, 2013 06:16
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Soooooo GW is no longer restocking Black Templars. WTF is going on with my favorite army?
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Apr 19, 2013 06:42
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Baruch Obamawitz posted:Went 0-3 today. Two 2k games, one 3k. I'm loving done with Dark Angels until I can figure out a list that doesn't loving suck poo poo. If you post your list I would also be willing to give you my thoughts. I am by no means a tournament winning player but I have played many DA games with lots of styles of play to some success.
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Apr 19, 2013 06:52
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Naramyth posted:I've said it before but I wind up rotating my dice because I use them as markers for what has shot already. It makes sure everything gets rolled fairly. I'm pretty sure we all get it. Nobody here actually believes that there's a mystical force affecting the dice other than chance, but we choose to have superstitions anyway because it's kinda fun.
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Apr 19, 2013 06:53
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Just got finished with the qualifiers for the Champions tournament at Adepticon. Won 2 matches by tabling my opponent. Lost one match by getting tabled myself. Lost one match by losing one of the primary objectives. All in all, I feel I did alright, especially for my first major tournament. Had a lot of fun. 3 of my 4 matches were against really cool guys (and the other wasn't bad.). Overall, it was a lot of fun. I wish I had done a little better, but I can't complain. Onward to combat patrol on Sunday.
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Apr 19, 2013 07:15
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Smegmalicious posted:Soooooo GW is no longer restocking Black Templars. WTF is going on with my favorite army? Didn't you read the latest white dwarf? Eaten by tyranids 
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Apr 19, 2013 07:58
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Cataphract posted:There was a guy who played in the Australian tournament circuit who would tap his dice against the table for luck. He did phenomenally well. *tap tap tap* above average hits and wounds. *tap tap tap* leadership test passed. turns out that his dice had weights in them, suspended in a thick oil. He tapped to die to force the weight towards a particular side before he rolled. for a while he even convinced judges his dice weren't loaded by centreing the weight. He was eventually caught and banned across the country. The year after he was banned from tournament play he won a Golden Daemon... with a model he bought from the internet from a pro painter. I think I know this guy - was he someone Spiers? His brother got caught out in the UK for massively embezzling the profit from a tournament instead of, uh, paying for any of the facilities or to the charity that was supposed to receive a donation.
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Apr 19, 2013 08:10
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Smegmalicious posted:Soooooo GW is no longer restocking Black Templars. WTF is going on with my favorite army? Right now it seems they are being combined into the Space Marines Codex, they're going the way of White Scars, Salamanders and several other chapters
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Apr 19, 2013 08:38
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Is there a thing against cross posting? I've put this 28mm Laser Cut Terrain in the TG KS thread, but I don't think everyone reads that - I've backed this project because it looks super cool, and I don't understand why it isn't already funded and on the way to a stretch goal already. The only thing I can think of is lack of coverage, and being buried by the Secret Weapon plastic terrain. The coolest pictures are on the updates page, which is all public. Want to arrange my Eldar spaceelfbarbies in new ways every time 
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Apr 19, 2013 08:39
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lockdar posted:Right now it seems they are being combined into the Space Marines Codex, they're going the way of White Scars, Salamanders and several other chapters You've got to be loving kidding me. God dammit. There was all this talk of a finished codex, quotes from Phil Kelly about how they had interesting poo poo planned...even vague poo poo from ADB about working with them after Helsreach. gently caress.
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Apr 19, 2013 08:59
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Currently I'm trying to work out, alongside some friends from my local club, whether Shadowsun can turn units invisible by joining them. I can't see anything to say that her joining a unit would not confer Stealth and Shrouded to that unit (she has it thanks to her wargear, it is quite specifically a conferrable rule). On the other hand I've seen it argued that since the stealth suit is described as "granting the wearer" the rules it's not conferrable for some reason.
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Apr 19, 2013 09:05
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Bob Smith posted:Currently I'm trying to work out, alongside some friends from my local club, whether Shadowsun can turn units invisible by joining them. I can't see anything to say that her joining a unit would not confer Stealth and Shrouded to that unit (she has it thanks to her wargear, it is quite specifically a conferrable rule). There is no reason why Stealth and Shrouded would not be passed on to any unit Shadowsun joins. The Stealth Suit confers rules which both start with "A unit that contains at least one model with this special rule..." Shadowsun is a model. Shadowsun can join units as an Independent Character. Therefore that unit receives Stealth and Shrouded. Although I don't really see what sort of tactical advantage you would gain by having her attached to a unit which is in need of a permanent 4+ cover save. Fusion Blasters are too short of range to match up with any unit that would need a better save (Pathfinders, Kroot). Maybe there's some tricks with Battle Brother allies that can be done? I expect that whenever the FAQ is released there will be a "Shadowsun may only join Stealthsuit units" addition given that there is even a special bonus to LoSir rolls for Steath Suit units lead by Shadowsun. Pacheeco fucked around with this message at 09:37 on Apr 19, 2013 |
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Apr 19, 2013 09:32
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Am I insane?code:BUT, that's 3 Str9 AP3 Pie Plates and 2 AP2 Pie Plates. 18 Lootas (so hopefully enough AA) and 80 scoring Orks. Nothing above AV12 so the vehicles will get shredded pretty early on (hopefully getting a full barrage in the first turn at least) and Str9 pie plates are pretty good vehicle busters in my experience. Is it crazy enough to work? Daedleh fucked around with this message at 11:20 on Apr 19, 2013 |
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Apr 19, 2013 11:17
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Smegmalicious posted:You've got to be loving kidding me. God dammit. There was all this talk of a finished codex, quotes from Phil Kelly about how they had interesting poo poo planned...even vague poo poo from ADB about working with them after Helsreach. gently caress. Here is a list of things that make Black Templars different from regular marines organizationally: Emperor's Champ, No Librarians, BP/CCW Tacticals, Scouts are mixed in with troops. The only thing that might be difficult to fit into a normal SM book would be the last one. Otherwise they're a fluff and paintjob codex.
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Apr 19, 2013 11:48
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Pacheeco posted:Although I don't really see what sort of tactical advantage you would gain by having her attached to a unit which is in need of a permanent 4+ cover save. Because having a giant riptide stealthed is hilarious.
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Apr 19, 2013 11:52
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JesusIsTehCool posted:If you post your list I would also be willing to give you my thoughts. I am by no means a tournament winning player but I have played many DA games with lots of styles of play to some success. I'm gonna post a bunch of lists, actually: code:code:code:
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Apr 19, 2013 12:26
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The Gate posted:Here is a list of things that make Black Templars different from regular marines organizationally: Emperor's Champ, No Librarians, BP/CCW Tacticals, Scouts are mixed in with troops. The only thing that might be difficult to fit into a normal SM book would be the last one. Otherwise they're a fluff and paintjob codex. It's a shame if it's true because there is potential to make a really good unique force. Unlike every other army in C:SM, the Templars do not follow the codex astartes and have a unique organisational structure and tactics. It makes much more sense for Dark Angels or Blood Angels to be rolled into C:SM than Templars. Both of them have a structure derivative of the codex (10 companies of ten squads etc etc) Sure the templar's current codex is old and their unique stuff, like the LRC, has been rolled into the newer codicies but they were pretty darn unique when the came out. it makes so little sense considering that the fluff of the Templars is that they are the bulk of the imperial fists legion who Rogal Dorne secreted away to continue the great crusade in defiance of the codex astartes. They're not a codex chapter, they're the antithesis.
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Apr 19, 2013 13:25
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Baruch Obamawitz posted:I think the issue is that Dark Angels are an elite army without any stand-out units aside from Black Knights. I run a list similar to your first, all-Ravenwing, but I bump the RAS to 6 each and use plasma on the bike squads, melta on the AB. It works alright, provided you can stay in that 22-24" range without taking more damage than you put out. Generally I tend to agree with you - everything a little too expensive to put enough on the table to cause trouble.
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Apr 19, 2013 13:39
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Pretty much. I'm gonna stick with my CSM and Necron, and maybe build up some Tau.
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Apr 19, 2013 13:54
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Cataphract posted:It's a shame if it's true because there is potential to make a really good unique force. Unlike every other army in C:SM, the Templars do not follow the codex astartes and have a unique organisational structure and tactics. It makes much more sense for Dark Angels or Blood Angels to be rolled into C:SM than Templars. Both of them have a structure derivative of the codex (10 companies of ten squads etc etc) I had thought the Black Templars weren't so much Dorn's secret marine stash as Sigismund, who had a hard on for eternal crusading before the Heresy, being all like, "Yep, I heard you on the Codex Astartes thing, but like I give a poo poo. Have fun getting us all in the one place again to count us LOL." Quite probably with Dorn's tacit consent/orders. Is it clarified in any of the newer books? Are Fists in any of the newer books? I like the Fists and the Templars for some reason. Fist's probably from that old, old novel Space Marine by Ian Watson. 
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Apr 19, 2013 13:58
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FW are clearly preparing the way for the next HH book, the new destroyer models (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/New_Stuff/LEGION_MKIV_DESTROYER_SQUAD.html) are painted in Night Lords colours. I'm a fists man, they're an awesome chapter for many reasons. The Templars are very cool purely by virtue of being part of the Last line of defence on Terra. There's an old, old, old bit of fluff about Sigismund preparing for the battle for the Gates in the back of a Rhino, very stirring stuff.
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Apr 19, 2013 14:10
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lenoon posted:FW are clearly preparing the way for the next HH book, the new destroyer models (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/New_Stuff/LEGION_MKIV_DESTROYER_SQUAD.html) are painted in Night Lords colours. Not just the destroyers, the recon squad is also painted as Night Lords and the Breachers are Iron Hands.
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Apr 19, 2013 14:11
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Can't really comment on your second and third lists since I've been mainly running ravenwing lists since the codex came out, but I think you need more troops for your 1st list - You've designed your list around using the devastation banner and darkshroud to full effect, but it does mean that all 18 scoring models are grouped together (yes you can conga line out to still get the stealth and salvo bonuses, but in practice terrain and enemy models mean that never happen like you plan), making them prime template targets. I would say drop the landspeeders from the ravenwing squads and replace them with 2-3 multimelta attack bikes in reserve - outflank them for early anti-tank coming on the backfield for easy side/rear armour hits or late game scoring objective grabbers. Then with the points saved, drop the ravenwing squads a model and add in another squad - 4x squads of 5 with 3x attack bikes gives you 23 scoring models as opposed to 18, but also lets you claim twice as many objectives so you can retask your bike much easier. Drop the Techmarine as well, he'll keep your Landraider alive longer, but it's overkill as your Landraider's main job is to keep the command squad alive as long as possible and keeping them in banner range of the rest of your bikes - you only really need it to stay alive and mobile the first 2-3 turns for it to have done its job, then even if the Landraider gets popped, the command squad can still keep the banner alive another turn at least with 4 ablative wounds, going to ground in wreck etc. If you are worried about enemy anti-tank, abuse the Darkshroud to give it a cover save instead (keep Darkshroud behind landraider until it has fired hurricane bolters etc, then turbo-boost Darkshroud in front to obscure enemy shots at the raider). Also drop the assault cannon on the Darkshroud - you always want it hanging back in movement phases so it doesn't block your own shots, then turbo-boosting forward in shooting phase to dole out the stealth bonus to as many units as possible while giving it a 2+ cover save. The only time I've fired the Heavy bolter on my darkshroud is when it's been immobilised or when I am in full on mop-up mode and there are absolutely no enemy units that are a ranged risk. You should still be able to afford a couple of Landspeeders - I run 2-3 typhoons in a squadron to avoid giving up easy First blood/kill points/scouring VPs. Missile/Melta is nice, but I prefer HB/Missile so I can use them more as longer range harrasers, and you are going to have plenty of melta/plasma up in your opponents face turn 1/2 anyway from the bikes and outflanking attack bikes.
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Apr 19, 2013 14:21
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The only issue with that is it tends to get the darkshroud assaulted.
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Apr 19, 2013 14:34
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True, and the darkshroud will die most of the time, but whether the darkshroud dies or not, the assaulting unit can't consolidate and is guaranteed stuck out in the open for your next shooting phase - a reasonable trade off if they used a big choppy assault unit to kill your 80pt speeder.
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Apr 19, 2013 15:30
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Smegmalicious posted:You've got to be loving kidding me. God dammit. There was all this talk of a finished codex, quotes from Phil Kelly about how they had interesting poo poo planned...even vague poo poo from ADB about working with them after Helsreach. gently caress. With regards to their uniqueness: DA and BA as well as SW were all pretty bland books in their previous incarnation, not having a lot going for them. GW is perfectly capable of doing something interesting with the Templars, it's just a matter of whether they decide to do so or not. Baruch Obamawitz posted:I'm gonna post a bunch of lists, actually: List #1: -You're way over-spending on the Land Speeders. In fact, you could probably get by without them at all- they aren't all that impressive now that two glances kill them. Running with HB/Typhoon allows them some survivability, since you can sit at 48" and pip away, or just go double-MM to have something you can drop on top of a tank and vaporize it. My honest recommendation would be just to drop them, though, unless you super <3 them. -Sammael on Corvex is a bit vulnerable, although you do at least have the Land Raider to help with that. If you wanna go all-in, a third LR would really push that element of the list (and might give you someplace to put an assault unit or the like.) The Deathwing upgrade is somewhat arguable; on the one hand, it is some insurance against the lucky penetration-and-kill on first turn, but on the other hand, anything that can actually penetrate AV14 is getting at least +1 on the chart and quite probably +2, so your odds of surviving still may not be great. I'd say cut it if you need the points, as it's not a must-have. -The Darkshroud isn't doing a lot for you, since your tank(s) have a 4++ anyways. You probably want to be looking to increase your ability to hit the enemy early and hard, since it's a rather alpha strike-reliant type of gimmick; more bodies will aid you more in that than a cover save when your plan go south. -A unit of Black Knights can be useful in bringing down Monstrous Creatures and the like, although a full six may be overkill there (since the grenades don't stack.) Depends on how worried you are about that kind of thing and how much you like them, I suppose; I'd say they're an acceptable inclusion overall, despite not actually benefitting from the Banner. -The main thing I note is a weakness in the scoring department- you may look to use the points gotten from the Speeders to invest into a pair of Tactical Squads with dual heavy weapons to sit on home objectives while the rest of the army moves forward. I can also see flyers being a problem- a Quad Gun might help here, if you don't see a ton of them in your area, or you might have to look to adding Tau allies to do the job. (Imperial Guard can also help.) List #2: -I gotta be honest, I don't really like this one. I can see where you're going with it and I think there's some potential, but I think you're introducing a lot of extraneous elements (the Black Knights, Land Raider, Techmarine, etc) where you should be focusing on your core strengths of a bunch of tough scoring guys that are in their face turn 1. Bring in some more Terminators and some Scouts or Tacticals to hold the backfield (or allies) and I think it could really go somewhere, but this incarnation is too confused. -Not sure what the Company Veterans are in there for. A bunch of Flamers will obviously do some damage to a horde, but was that something you were struggling with? Usually I've found that Ravenwing covers that part reasonably well just thanks to a bunch of TLBolters. They're also pretty suicidal, all things considered, especially for as many points as they are. -As an aside, I don't think all-melee is the way to go with Deathwing. You waste two of your big strengths (twin-linked on the drop, Split Fire) and are basically just worse than regular Terminators at the job. A list that relies heavily on coming in on the drop needs to hit the enemy hard the turn they arrive- otherwise you just have a bunch of dudes standing around in the open waiting to be shot. Turn 2 assaults are all well and good, but if you aren't breaking up the other guy's plan to stop you, you are gonna find it often just does not work out. List #3: -This... I dunno. It's not awful, but even more so than the second list it feels like it doesn't know what it's up to. It has guys Deep Striking and also other guys riding in Land Raiders? It's not a foot list, but it also isn't a mech list. You have two pretty easy First Blood targets in the Razorbacks, but they aren't really adding the kind of firepower that your army needs in any particular way. I think I just don't understand what you were going for here. It's not really a Deathwing list, but it also isn't a hybrid the way #2 was and it's not anything else. Maybe you can shed some light on what you were aiming for? Dark Angels don't have any real "omg SO GUD" units in their book, but they do have plenty of good options and many of them can work together quite well. Their biggest problem is lack of a good way to handle flyers (due to their own flyers being so lovely); if you can get around that, you can do pretty well with them using many of the different units. If you're looking to try a specific strategy, list, or units that's generally possible, but the three armies above all vary pretty widely, so I'm not exactly sure what your preferences might be.
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Apr 19, 2013 15:31
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Cataphract posted:There was a guy who played in the Australian tournament circuit who would tap his dice against the table for luck. He did phenomenally well. *tap tap tap* above average hits and wounds. *tap tap tap* leadership test passed. turns out that his dice had weights in them, suspended in a thick oil. He tapped to die to force the weight towards a particular side before he rolled. for a while he even convinced judges his dice weren't loaded by centreing the weight. He was eventually caught and banned across the country. The year after he was banned from tournament play he won a Golden Daemon... with a model he bought from the internet from a pro painter. I wouldn't mind getting a set of those dice just to gently caress with my friends. I have a buddy who is retardedly superstitious (to the point where he throws out "unlucky" dice.) I'd love to just have an unstoppable rolling streak that held up to casual examination just to make him rage.
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Apr 19, 2013 16:16
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AbusePuppy posted:I wouldn't throw in the towel quite yet- several sources with good reliability has said that GW doesn't plan to eliminate any armies from their current lineup from this point on. That doesn't mean they can never change their mind and go back on the decision, but it seems likely that BT will be staying around for good. The two grenades are for one rad, one stasis... I'm gonna play around a little more... e: Corvex is the jetbike; Sableclaw is the land speeder. WhiskeyJuvenile fucked around with this message at 16:43 on Apr 19, 2013 |
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Apr 19, 2013 16:35
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Crosspostin! More work on The Grey Tide, started working on a unit of Tankbustas:     I decided all the Tankbustas would be in red shirts with brown pants/gloves. So far I'm pretty pleased with the results.
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Apr 19, 2013 17:29
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I am wondering if there is a reason you didn't take any Tac Squads in any the first two list? I understand that they are not the sexiest unit in the codex but they are solid troops which are a lot cheaper than bikes. If you are moving the bikes forward it should force your opponent to try and deal with the bikes and they will ignore the less threatening space marines. This can be exploited as space marines can do just as much as the bikes for half the cost. Other people have mentioned this but I really don't like the idea of having to keep bikes near a landraider and thus am not a huge fan of the banner. I really like taking my scout move and getting that extra 12" closer. The sooner I can get those bikes hit and running the better. Pairing them with a landraider takes away one of their biggest strengths in their mobility. I disagree with people telling you to drop the tech-marine in the Landraider, they are right that in your current list you are not getting the most out of the 4++ bubble. I would instead suggest taking some vehicles (maybe even from an ally army) which benefit most from the 4++ that can advance with the landraider. The land speeders have the save issue as the bikes, you don't want to have to sack their mobility to stay near the landraidier. I know people hate them but I like running a vindicator with the landraider as it needs to advance and I find them pretty useful against several armies which have toughness 5 things running at me turn 1.
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Apr 19, 2013 19:08
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I might have missed it in the OP, but is there still an Army Builder-like program where I can make and print easy-to-use lists? I remember Army Builder being the only decent one since the official GW one was total rear end.
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Apr 19, 2013 19:22
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Fox of Stone posted:I might have missed it in the OP, but is there still an Army Builder-like program where I can make and print easy-to-use lists? I remember Army Builder being the only decent one since the official GW one was total rear end. http://www.battlescribe.net/ http://catalogue.randomhit.org/ have fun
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Apr 19, 2013 19:23
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Uh...code:Command squad and tacticals stick back in bolstered terrain (they have sufficient terrain pieces to hold 25 models at my local GW) with the darkshroud to give them stealth for 2+ cover. Darkshroud wouldn't be turboboosting because it can probably get the 2+ cover from the terrain also so I gave it a gun. Alternatively, drop darkshroud for another melta bike squad.
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Apr 19, 2013 19:47
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Sephyr posted:-SM Captain: You kept him cheap, which is good, but as your HQ he just doesn't bring too much to the army other than an S6 AP3 sword. Alternative: If you don't mind green paint, Vulkan He'stan is only 30 points more expensive and adds a LOT. He has a better melee weapon, a heavy flamer, insane saves and an amazing army-wide special ability. I've re-tooled the captain thusly; Jump Pack, Melta Bombs, Plasma Pistol, Power Armour, Relic Blade. He comes out at 175 and I'll probably run him with the assault squad. I did look at Vulkan and his melta/flamer stuff but decided to keep it vanilla. I've dropped one assault squad and cheapened them by only adding a free flamer and a powerfist and plasma pistol for the sgt. The only reason the Terminators are in is because I've already picked them up, given the choice now I'd go for the assaults and drop them in a redeemer. I'm going to squeeze some Sternguard in too. This is mainly just using up my dribs and drabs of collection over the last fifteen years or so. I'm going to be digging out metal speeders and such soonish. It'll mainly just be for fun games against my friends and their Nids/Wolves/Tau/Eldar/Flesh Tearers. Thankyou for taking a look 
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Apr 19, 2013 21:57
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Crossposting from the miniature thread: Finished my Krieg Commissar. Awesome model! It practically painted itself because it was so detailed. I love painting character models, so I might start my CC next.    
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Apr 19, 2013 22:33
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That looks awesome. I think the only thing I would have done differently is paint the belt a dark brown colour to break up the black of the coat, but the red and gold really stand out nicely.
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Apr 19, 2013 23:07
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Smegmalicious posted:Soooooo GW is no longer restocking Black Templars. WTF is going on with my favorite army?
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Apr 19, 2013 23:34
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| # ? Jun 9, 2024 17:09 |
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Brother-Captain Colbert on Freedomhawk
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Apr 19, 2013 23:46
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