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Does anyone here make big compressed layered kicks/claps/snares in Ableton and if so would anyone mind showing me a screenshot of their mastering chain on it? I'm having no problems with the lower frequencies but really getting something to punch is proving to be annoying. I'm having a similar problem with getting a bass to really fill up but that may be the patch I'm using. :/
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Apr 15, 2013 16:36
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WAFFLEHOUND posted:Does anyone here make big compressed layered kicks/claps/snares in Ableton and if so would anyone mind showing me a screenshot of their mastering chain on it? I'm having no problems with the lower frequencies but really getting something to punch is proving to be annoying. I'm having a similar problem with getting a bass to really fill up but that may be the patch I'm using. :/ I make (or at least try to make) these, but I'm not sure what you mean by mastering chain on it? Do you mean a separate mastering chain for thess sounds separate from the global mastering chain? Anyway, posted this in the techno thread, but here is a little Beastie Boys remix I've been playing around with: http://soundcloud.com/ttinga/beastie-boys-brass-monkey
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Apr 15, 2013 17:26
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Lump Shaker posted:I make (or at least try to make) these, but I'm not sure what you mean by mastering chain on it? Sorry, I posted this right after I woke up. Just whatever compression and EQing you're applying in Live.
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Apr 15, 2013 17:28
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WAFFLEHOUND posted:Does anyone here make big compressed layered kicks/claps/snares in Ableton and if so would anyone mind showing me a screenshot of their mastering chain on it? I'm having no problems with the lower frequencies but really getting something to punch is proving to be annoying. I'm having a similar problem with getting a bass to really fill up but that may be the patch I'm using. :/ You wouldn't do the same things for kicks, claps, and snares. Do you just mean louder? Do you have a piece of audio you can reference to show what you're trying to achieve?
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Apr 15, 2013 17:52
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Thoogsby posted:You wouldn't do the same things for kicks, claps, and snares. Do you just mean louder? Do you have a piece of audio you can reference to show what you're trying to achieve? I hate to say this, but kind of deadmau5? I mean, I get the fundamentals of compression but layering the various levels of drums and compressing them is what's throwing me. Not to mention making a fairly simple bass cut through like a montherfucker: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=rp2KqZUCsBY#t=41s That's not the kind of music I'm trying to make, and I know there's a fuckload of tutorials out there but they're mostly "start with this vengeance sample and add a compressor with THESE EXACT SETTINGS" and I'm trying to do something that wouldn't work well with. v  v
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Apr 16, 2013 03:25
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If you want to use compression, you have to understand compression. There's really no substitute for knowledge here. Try some of the more technical descriptions first, divorced from actual sounds - then progress.
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Apr 16, 2013 06:48
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In which I try to write some proper Techno. Is it a success? Who knows! https://soundcloud.com/gkchestertron/astronecronomy j.peeba posted:https://soundcloud.com/john-peeba/john_peeba-death_bag_v1 I liked the sound of this. The melody threading neatly between creepy and lush. If I had any criticisms, I might like to hear your hats come in a little stronger towards the end of the mix. They sort of get lost in everything and it might add a little more hard structure to the track. wayfinder posted:Here's something new, groovy, and melodic: http://soundcloud.com/wayfu/wayfinder-we-start-now-2013 *drool* delicious That Dang Dad fucked around with this message at 09:11 on Apr 16, 2013 |
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Apr 16, 2013 08:59
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Anal Surgery posted:In which I try to write some proper Techno. Is it a success? Who knows! Good stuff, I find the "spacier" techno kind of hard to make, as I have a tendency (and its hard to resist) to put in lots of percussion, fills, builds, etc. There are a couple things that stand out for me in the percussion. I think the kick drum is a little weak/floppy. The snare also feels a bit out of place, especially in the fills - same thing with the crash cymbals.
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Apr 17, 2013 02:00
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Lump Shaker posted:I think the kick drum is a little weak/floppy. The snare also feels a bit out of place, especially in the fills - same thing with the crash cymbals. If you have a sec, can you elaborate? I ask because I always feel like I'm "settling" on much of my percussion, as opposed to putting some samples or synths together and going "OOH yeah perfect drums!!!". Kicks are a pain in the rear end for me to get right. My general MO is to layer two or three kick samples (or snares, for snares) and then compress them together, and then make sure I EQ a little hole for my kicks through the rest of the mix. But I always feel like they lack that "snap" I hear in professional poo poo.
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Apr 17, 2013 08:34
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Anal Surgery posted:If you have a sec, can you elaborate? I ask because I always feel like I'm "settling" on much of my percussion, as opposed to putting some samples or synths together and going "OOH yeah perfect drums!!!". Kicks are a pain in the rear end for me to get right. My general MO is to layer two or three kick samples (or snares, for snares) and then compress them together, and then make sure I EQ a little hole for my kicks through the rest of the mix. But I always feel like they lack that "snap" I hear in professional poo poo. First of all, you seem to be using acoustic drum or simulated acoustic drum samples in there. That isn't really a common thing to do in techno. A typical techno kick is in 99% of the cases based off an 808 kick. You can definitely add some flavour on top, but generally that will be just a whiff of something. There's definitely too much going on in the 200Hz-600Hz range for a techno kick. And it's too much of a snare-like rattling noise, not the simple thump you'd expect. And it could be you're picking samples where that balance is okay initially, but thanks to the compression you throw over it, that balance goes out of whack, as compressing a kick will most likely pull the lower frequencies down and the mid and high range up. It's important not to tweak kicks too much in isolation; they have to work in the context of the mix. Slicing a bit out of the frequency range of the rest of the mix isn't a catch all solution. For techno it's appropriate to spend as much time tweaking the kick as you would spend on the rest of the sounds. This more or less requires you to either spend a lot of time selecting the right sample or to start off with a drum synthesizer that allows you to taylor the sound to your needs. Second, there are problems with just layering kick samples. Because they're not all tuned the same and their pitch doesn't decay at the same rate, the low end gets flabby. If you want to layer kick samples, you're better off picking one sample that will provide the low end and highpass the rest of the samples on top so you don't get the blubbery interference you can notice in the kick you used in the track you posted. Third, you're putting reverb on the kick (or you're using samples with reverb on it). This is something you'd generally do very, very sparingly and it wouldn't be as noticeable with a simple sine wave based, 808 type kick anyway. The combination of your acoustic-like kick with the amount of reverb on top you're using actually draws too much undue attention to itself for the simple pattern kicks typically play. It also muddies it, whereas you're looking to make the kick tighter. If you really really want to add reverb to your kick, keep it down and make sure the reverb tail doesn't pass through any compression along the way. I don't have as much problems with the snare, although I'd recommend looking for samples that are more synthetic in nature there as well, to better suit the genre. Although you could end up with a fine result if you just shortened the snare's tail and maybe tuned it a few cents up or down (whatever turns out to suit the key of the music best). I would shift the shaker pattern backward a bit if I were you, I think that'd work better. If you're on Windows, I'd definitely recommend looking into Drumatic 3, an amazing free drumsynth. It does 808 kicks very well and messing around with it will help with the understanding of how synthetic kicks work. It's very tweakable and you can obviously still add the flavour of a sample on top, but at least the kick will have a solid low end and the necessary snap to start off with. You can also squeeze a passable snare and clap out of it, though probably not suited for every scenario. It's interesting to try, in order to get a better understanding of how those types of sounds work too though. For any sort of hihat/cymbal sounds, I prefer to stick with samples myself. Sorry for the wall of text; I hope this isn't too disheartening. I really like the underwater whalesong feel of the rest of the track.
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Apr 17, 2013 12:58
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Not disheartening at all! I want to get better at this stuff so I really appreciate you taking the time! I'll play around with that Drumatic program for sure edit: I'm going back and listening to a bunch of electronic poo poo, just to get a feel for things. So would you say that, by and large, your average techno (or whatever) track is going to be using an 808 kick just processed to taste? I'm listening to these for reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jmjv0Wo9qgw Marcelus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KL_Bbyi3ub8 Blawan https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AviBDzIZqSU Brian Sanhaji/Drumcell https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkzqCzjeEIg Noisia That Dang Dad fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Apr 17, 2013 |
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Apr 17, 2013 21:23
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I agree with everything Flipper said, except I think it is more common to use a 909 kick.
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Apr 17, 2013 22:31
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I almost get the feeling that the 808 is back in style, just with poo poo layered over it.
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Apr 17, 2013 22:39
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The 808 never really fell out of style though?
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Apr 17, 2013 22:41
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In techno at least its always been around but more so for the underlying rumble of the kick than the main body.
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Apr 17, 2013 22:46
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Forums Terrorist posted:The 808 never really fell out of style though? I meant like really big, not slightly more popular. Lump Shaker posted:In techno at least its always been around but more so for the underlying rumble of the kick than the main body. This is what I've assumed was going on underneath most electro-house kicks.
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Apr 17, 2013 23:01
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Sorry if this the wrong thread. I just bought a used Yamaha KX8, and I intended to use it for practice/learning MIDI. What freeware can I can use? I downloaded Anvil Studio but it won't recognize my kx8. When I go to choose the controller it gives options for a KX1, 2 and 3, but not mine. I installed the drivers from here. I'm feeling pretty overwhelmed right now and frustrated that I can't get it to work. edit: literally 5 minutes after I posted this I figured it out. unclenutzzy fucked around with this message at 23:42 on Apr 17, 2013 |
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Apr 17, 2013 23:28
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Anal Surgery posted:edit: I'm going back and listening to a bunch of electronic poo poo, just to get a feel for things. So would you say that, by and large, your average techno (or whatever) track is going to be using an 808 kick just processed to taste?  But going from the examples you quote here, I'd say the answer to that question is still simply yes! I was expecting to have to nuance what I said a bit, but it conveniently seems to be quite clear cut. The Marcelus example is a bit confusing, because it has that metallic, boxy/roomy sound on top in the beginning, but that turns out to be a separate melodic element later on (in as far as techno uses melodic elements; maybe tonal is a better word). But the kick, just like on the other tracks, is 808 or made by other drum synthesizers that use similar principles. If that's not actually the case, it might as well be. As in: 808 style kick synthesis is a valid approach to creating a similar booming sound. And a lot of that sound is directly what comes out of the synthesizer. There's probably a bit of equalizing on each of them, but there's no need for more than that. The Brian Sanhaji/Drumcell track is the only one that needs an extra compressor on the kick to get that sound. (Note that here, again, that pulsating extra distorted crunch is a separate element in the track). Drumatic can definitely do this sort of thing. You might want to familiarize yourself with what every knob is for (not insurmountable) and you're probably going to have to step away a bit from the presets and the preset envelopes, but yeah. EDIT: I'm going to admit that I wouldn't be able to specifically recognise the difference between 808 or 909 style kicks without pulling in some reference material. Both are very different from acoustic kick samples, is what I'm driving at. Flipperwaldt fucked around with this message at 00:02 on Apr 18, 2013 |
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Apr 17, 2013 23:54
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You've given me a wealth of information. I think I've been getting hosed up on confusing some of the tonal stuff and distortions for things that are on the kick as opposed to just floating about the kick. I've been producing at the hobbyist level for two years but my ears still get things mixed up when I hear them "in the wild". Thanks for the help!
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Apr 18, 2013 00:27
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Quick question about monitors: I need some. I'm thinking about getting some Mackie MR5 MK2s - does anyone have any great experiences/horror stories? Reviews are relatively scarce. I don't have the opportunity to go listen to any.
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Apr 18, 2013 01:36
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Anal Surgery posted:You've given me a wealth of information. I think I've been getting hosed up on confusing some of the tonal stuff and distortions for things that are on the kick as opposed to just floating about the kick. I've been producing at the hobbyist level for two years but my ears still get things mixed up when I hear them "in the wild". Thanks for the help! To add one more thing, I've never really had great luck layering kicks, although its something you see done in a lot of techno tutorials. For something like a kick, I don't think there is really anything wrong with just grabbing a sample out of one of the packs. For me the really tricky part comes when you try to mix in the bassline. Also, I probably sound like a broken record in this thread, but are you using any parallel compression on your drums? There is discussion on this in the past few pages if you are interested. Also, if you are going to use a snare, you may want to reduce the level on it quite a lot. Its not that common for it to dominate in techno.
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Apr 18, 2013 02:15
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sorry double post
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Apr 18, 2013 02:16
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I don't layer the kicks at the patch level, but I do run a subby kick and a clicky kick for a lot of more techno-y things, and run them in separate tracks. Most of the time they are in lockstep, but sometimes I mix up a pattern here and there and just want one sample or the other. This also allows me some more tonal variations due to individual velocity channels.
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Apr 18, 2013 04:29
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Lump Shaker posted:To add one more thing, I've never really had great luck layering kicks, although its something you see done in a lot of techno tutorials. That's how I got in the habit Lump Shaker posted:Also, I probably sound like a broken record in this thread, but are you using any parallel compression on your drums? There is discussion on this in the past few pages if you are interested. Yes, I usually have an NY Compression Return Track that I use to beef up things a little, though I feel like I've gotten conflicting information. For example, one guy says to put an EQ first THEN use a Compressor with a low attack and high release. Another guy uses an EQ after the compressor, and uses low attack, low release. Another guy doesn't use an EQ at all. Seems like there's a lot of schools of thought on it.
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Apr 18, 2013 10:30
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Finished up this deep house track today. And by finished I mean got so tired of loving with it that I uploaded it. https://soundcloud.com/winemouth/a-field-guide
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Apr 18, 2013 20:22
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Really breathy and fluffy. I like the entire vibe you've constructed there, esp the clacking noise (an EQed kick?) that substitutes for a snare/clap. https://soundcloud.com/fastland/variable-edge Made some house today too, tried to do something 90s yet ended up with prog elements. Used an 808 kick from the VST posted earlier with an overlaid click sample to try it out. I'm usually woefully undisciplined when it comes to how I do the kick. SHAOLIN FUCKFIEND fucked around with this message at 01:53 on Apr 19, 2013 |
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Apr 19, 2013 01:50
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SHAOLIN FUCKFIEND posted:Really breathy and fluffy. I like the entire vibe you've constructed there, esp the clacking noise (an EQed kick?) that substitutes for a snare/clap. It's actually a snare hit with a lot of distortion so it sounds really sharp and jumps out.
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Apr 19, 2013 02:00
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Edit: Never mind
The Skeleton King fucked around with this message at 02:51 on Apr 21, 2013 |
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Apr 19, 2013 18:28
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I don't think I'm ever going to finish this sketch largely because my CPU can't handle it so I just uploaded it. https://soundcloud.com/winemouth/4-19-13
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Apr 20, 2013 22:02
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Thoogsby posted:I don't think I'm ever going to finish this sketch largely because my CPU can't handle it so I just uploaded it. I like this a lot, though I think the drums sound too bright compared to the rest of it, and would like it better with the drums a little murkier (but still punchy).
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Apr 21, 2013 01:07
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Something a bit deeper from myself https://soundcloud.com/careyb/onset Feedbacks appreciated
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Apr 21, 2013 20:30
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Does anyone here know how to make percussion sound like the cymbals (i think that is what they are) in this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEwAS2PKZjE&t=25s I have been looking around for samples, but can't find anything quite like it. Do I need a sound filter?
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Apr 21, 2013 21:15
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I am the M00N posted:Does anyone here know how to make percussion sound like the cymbals (i think that is what they are) in this? Any Virtual Analog synth (plugin) with noise as a possible choice for oscillator should be able to do the trick. Flipperwaldt fucked around with this message at 21:28 on Apr 21, 2013 |
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Apr 21, 2013 21:26
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CareyB posted:Something a bit deeper from myself Nice, I think this is my favorite out of what you've done. Just a few small thoughts from my amateur ears: -Sounds like the kick might be mixed a little too dominant, or might have a little too much midrange sound in it? -I really like the filter enveloped bass sound that comes in around two minutes -Not a huge fan of the snare, seems a bit muffled -I think the white noise at 2:20 is dying for a long reverb tail That's it. I imagine that deep bass line was pretty challenging to mix with the kick?
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Apr 22, 2013 01:12
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Alright, per the advice in the thread, I completely redid the kick drums. I used an 808 sample from Goldbaby, plus a high-passed clicky bit layered very lightly over it, with parallel compression. I also took out the snare entirely because I couldn't find something that fit right. I think I spent more time futzing with the kick than I did on almost everything else combined. It would either come out too strong, or too soft. Sometimes it would sound awesome in isolation and then get lost in the mix, or else sit really way out in the mix. Maybe because I had already built the entire track first and thus had trouble remixing everything to fit the new kick. I think this version is better, but certainly not Graduate Level Kick Theory yet. Someday!! At least now I have a better idea when I start a new track. https://soundcloud.com/gkchestertron/astronecronomy
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Apr 22, 2013 07:32
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Lump Shaker posted:Nice, I think this is my favorite out of what you've done. Just a few small thoughts from my amateur ears: Bass wasn't too difficult to eq right. Resonant frequency of the kick is quite high so my deep bass sits around 50-80 range and the top line bass 300-500. Top bass is 3 seperate layers of a synth of I think 2 oscillator and a FM built in Massive that I've extrapolated and beefed up the various movements and timbres of each modulation. Then it's all sidechained to my deeper synth lines like the horn. Wicked man thank you. Got bits to work on like the bass is too powerful with the tube amp I added last night. Don't expect that helps the kick's mid poke out. And my snares always end up sounding the same due to the distortion I add :/ You know I really didn't connect with this tune to begin with and almost never bothered with it, glad I did, a few people have said it's the best I've done and I'm growing to love it, haha .
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Apr 22, 2013 12:27
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Anal Surgery posted:Alright, per the advice in the thread, I completely redid the kick drums. I used an 808 sample from Goldbaby, plus a high-passed clicky bit layered very lightly over it, with parallel compression. I also took out the snare entirely because I couldn't find something that fit right. I think I spent more time futzing with the kick than I did on almost everything else combined. It would either come out too strong, or too soft. Sometimes it would sound awesome in isolation and then get lost in the mix, or else sit really way out in the mix. Maybe because I had already built the entire track first and thus had trouble remixing everything to fit the new kick. I think this version is better, but certainly not Graduate Level Kick Theory yet. Someday!! At least now I have a better idea when I start a new track. https://soundcloud.com/gkchestertron/astronecronomy Don't discount the possibility of using an automation envelope for just accentuating the kick in places where it would otherwise get lost. I mean, you don't necessarily have to fixate yourself on having one sound that both sounds great in the mix and in isolation. You can switch between two subtle variations throughout the track. Automating EQ or the volume level of just the clicky bit are great for things like that. And it is going to be easier in future tracks when you can develop bassline and kickdrum in tandem.
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Apr 22, 2013 13:17
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So here's a thing I've been working on. Can I get some advice on how to get the lead to stick out more after the fade-in at 2:00ish? Sounds bad when I just up the volume on it. And here's something completely different I made today for giggles. Not sure where to go with it. 
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Apr 22, 2013 17:44
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A sacrilegious proof of concept: http://soundcloud.com/wayfu/polar-cubs
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Apr 22, 2013 21:40
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wayfinder posted:A sacrilegious proof of concept: http://soundcloud.com/wayfu/polar-cubs just in case this wasn't clear and so nobody thinks I came up with anything here: the two components of this are Grauzone - Eisbär and Robert Miles - Children (my remix) is this a Mashup or an original with the children lead and acapella or what? Sounds fat.
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Apr 22, 2013 23:28
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