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As someone who has played CK2, and CK2 only, would vicky2 plus the new expansion be all that horrible to get into? I know there's wacky sliders and tech poo poo to worry about, but I can't resist the sweet colonial ahistoricism.
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Apr 22, 2013 03:56
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It's a great game but doesn't come close to the interface/tooltips of CK2. I mean CK2 is a hard to get into game and nearly everything in it has great tooltips or obvious design that informs the player what/why/how and what the player's options are. V2 lacks this big time, with many incredibly important core mechanics absolutely unexplained and hidden away from the player. BUT it's still a fun game, once you figure it out. MORE V2 QUESTIONS I had a communist revolution and it's rad finally being able to have some social reforms. No idea why a socialist democracy can't have a basic health care system or schools but some of the game design choices in v2 I find mind-boggling. But of course now I'm unable to make any political reforms. How is communist democracy formed? How proletariat get voting rights? There's got to be a form of upper/lower house that will let me pass political and social reforms and usher in a true communist paradise with both "schools" and "voting rights" Baronjutter fucked around with this message at 04:37 on Apr 22, 2013 |
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Apr 22, 2013 04:22
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From my point of view, part of the fun of Paradox games is learning how to play it. There's so much to figure out, and toy with!Baronjutter posted:MORE V2 QUESTIONS You need to do it step-by-step, and you can't do it with a revolution! Starting off at 1836, encourage liberal parties as much as you can. Hopefully your starting liberal party will at least have interventionism so you won't totally cripple your industrial development. Political reforms are passed when there is a high enough percentage of the upper house voting for the measure, and decreases after each reform until the next time the upper house reconvenes. It's sort of like a "power gauge", where making a reform causes you to lose some "mana". Anyways, use your national focus to encourage a liberal majority and pass all the political reforms. You will need proportional representation and universal suffrage to get socialist parties in the door earlier! This is because the poor will tend to vote socialist, so the more you can skew the voting franchise in your favor, the better. Having the Upper House be proportional will mean that the upper house's distribution of parties will reflect the ideologies of the people. So for example, if your people lean 25% socialist, then the Socialist party will have 25% of the upper house, regardless of what margin they win the popular election by. By the time Socialist parties become available, switch to encouraging Socialist party loyalty. If you must, close some factories in those provinces and raise taxes on the poor, while lowering them on the rich. Raise tariffs to make it harder for them to satisfy their luxury and everyday needs. Unemployed and disgruntled poor people will go red. Keep holding elections and choose options that encourage State Capitalism or Planned Economics, Secularization or Atheism, and Full Citizenship. Basically, your goal from then on is to continue to encourage popular loyalty to the Socialist parties, in order to pass those reforms. If you do it right, you should have maximum political liberty as well as maximum social justice. 
DrSunshine fucked around with this message at 04:45 on Apr 22, 2013 |
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Apr 22, 2013 04:37
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Baronjutter posted:It's a great game but doesn't come close to the interface/tooltips of CK2. I mean CK2 is a hard to get into game and nearly everything in it has great tooltips or obvious design that informs the player what/why/how and what the player's options are. V2 lacks this big time, with many incredibly important core mechanics absolutely unexplained and hidden away from the player. BUT it's still a fun game, once you figure it out. I've had no problems accomplishing this with a socialist ruling party in a democracy. Just get consciousness up and the reforms will roll in steadily.
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Apr 22, 2013 04:40
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I went through most of the game with socialists in power and never once got the option for a reform. Every election I'd tell people to be interested in such things but no one seemed to care. I guess since taxes were at socialist minimums and tariffs were reversed to some how try to spend some of my nearly infinite money the people were too happy to ALLOW me to give them a school or a hospital? Now of course I had socialist parties as the designated ruling party, my upper house was always conservative mostly and my government was HM's Government. I have a feeling it's the upper house I need to change. Is there any way, barring letting rebels taking over, to switch upper-house government types? Also is there an up to date wiki on v2? I heard the "official" one pretty much locked everyone out and hasn't really been kept up to date. I'd love to be able to read up on this poo poo instead of constantly bothering the thread.
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Apr 22, 2013 04:46
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Baronjutter posted:I went through most of the game with socialists in power and never once got the option for a reform. Every election I'd tell people to be interested in such things but no one seemed to care. I guess since taxes were at socialist minimums and tariffs were reversed to some how try to spend some of my nearly infinite money the people were too happy to ALLOW me to give them a school or a hospital? Upper house is indeed the house that has to be in favor for reforms to go through. Were your people socialist or had you just designated it as the ruling party and left it at that? For reforms to happen your people need to push for them. Being a dick instead of a kind ruler will generate consciousness faster (along with some militancy). Once you've riled them up enough to scare the conservative upper house into letting through a few key reforms (public meetings, free press, maxed trade unions) they should start to press for reforms more and more quickly. As before, being a general shithead by keeping taxes high, fighting lots of wars, assigning unpopular parties as the ruling party, under-funding social spending, and arbitrarily passing reforms (ignoring popular reform efforts in favor of your pet reforms will drive the popular reform backers to become more vocal and militant). Also hang on to slavery if you can for at least a while. Slavery can be used to drive consciousness up very easily by invading places and making them free instead of slave states. Letting the Jacobins convert you to a democracy is also a free pass for some reforms. Sounds like you were simply too nice to your POPs. Reform is driven by class conflict and your benign rule keeps the people content. Nuclearmonkee fucked around with this message at 05:03 on Apr 22, 2013 |
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Apr 22, 2013 04:59
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Baronjutter posted:I went through most of the game with socialists in power and never once got the option for a reform. Every election I'd tell people to be interested in such things but no one seemed to care. I guess since taxes were at socialist minimums and tariffs were reversed to some how try to spend some of my nearly infinite money the people were too happy to ALLOW me to give them a school or a hospital? The upper house is controlled by the popularity of individual parties as well as your voting system. If the upper house is elected, you'll want to try to increase the popularity and popular loyalty of the party you want in the upper house. If it's appointed, you'll want to try to agitate people for an elected upper house until the entrenched elites finally agree to support such a reform. If it's ruling-party-only, you should try to jack up militancy for a Jacobin or Militant Socialist revolution. Incidentally, if you manage to get every political reform you want, it's perfectly fine to let the Communists win the subsequent elections instead of the Socialists, if they're democratically elected they won't actually roll back any political reforms unless you tell them to. Note that if Communists win elections in an HM's Government/constitutional monarchy, they'll abolish the monarchy and turn the country into a Democracy, which as far as I know is the only way to peacefully reform an HM's Government into a full Democracy. e: Also, yeah, to get reforms pushed through people need to be angry, which means you need to get CON up, which means you probably shouldn't be pampering them quite so much. A happy populace drowning in money is also probably going to be a pretty conservative populace fine with the status quo. Mister Bates fucked around with this message at 05:06 on Apr 22, 2013 |
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Apr 22, 2013 05:03
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They kept asking for universal voting but I kept increasing their union rights hoping they'd want social reforms from it, never worked. Eventually they started legitimately voting in socialists by a large majority rather than me just assigning them. I guess I was too nice. It's weird though that I can be nice to them in regard to their taxes, wars, and general well being, but giving their kids something simple like a school requires massive social engineering and revolution.
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Apr 22, 2013 05:05
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It actually deeply matters what your national value is. (You can see it on your politics screen near the upper left corner). If it's Equality, your population will be naturally predisposed to socialism and communism and you should be getting social reforms easy whether you like them or not, ditto Liberty and Liberalism/political reforms. Maybe you're just playing an Order nation and getting stuck? If you are an Order nation, go Fascist (no joke). Fascism is game-breakingly good and beats the pants of Reactionaries or Conservatives, which are the other results of Order.
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Apr 22, 2013 05:08
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Most social reform desire is going to be generated from Culture inventions and suppressing movements.
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Apr 22, 2013 05:10
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Baronjutter posted:They kept asking for universal voting but I kept increasing their union rights hoping they'd want social reforms from it, never worked. Eventually they started legitimately voting in socialists by a large majority rather than me just assigning them. I guess I was too nice. It's weird though that I can be nice to them in regard to their taxes, wars, and general well being, but giving their kids something simple like a school requires massive social engineering and revolution. As in reality, things need to be uncomfortable and lovely before enough people wake up and demand change. Why rock the boat too hard during good times? Allowing universal voting coupled with a population based upper house would have likely resulted in a socialist upper house being elected by your people. With socialists in charge you could have rolled out reform after reform pretty easily. Even with order you should be able to nudge your people into socialism, unless you are playing someone who gets lots of events that drive down militancy and consciousness (like Japan). Nuclearmonkee fucked around with this message at 05:13 on Apr 22, 2013 |
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Apr 22, 2013 05:10
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Why are my middle-class POPs not upgrading to Capitalists? Can someone help me puzzle out these modifiers?  Literacy is more than 30% and I'm running Interventionism.
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Apr 22, 2013 05:20
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Yeah, I've been finding that certain nations are easier to nudge into Social Democracy than others. I recently started a HoD game as the USA just to try it out, and it's been very slow getting social reforms passed, even with a socialist plurality party. Also, having a large nation with a lot of states really dilutes your ability to use national focuses. I must've spent hours fixated on the party loyalty overlay, watching the blue provinces slowly turn red, like I was watching an election on TV. You know, all this political chat makes me think that a Paradox game focused on electioneering would be incredible. Like instead of playing as a nation, you get to play as a party within some nations, kind of like how in Ck2 you can choose to be the lord of a realm or any of his lower vassals.
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Apr 22, 2013 05:21
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Nuclearmonkee posted:As in reality, things need to be uncomfortable and lovely before enough people wake up and demand change. Why rock the boat too hard during good times? I've hit 1880 in my Austria game and I've still got absolute monarchy with Con and Mil below 1. No movement has a strength over 30, and all rebels are less than 1k. Main reason not to change is my ruling party is 'the Iron Ring', which sounds like a trashy 80s hair metal band. One thing I've come to realise about V2 is that it really is just a game about numbers. Some going up, some going down. Every now and then the numbers produce a historical event, but it's mainly numbers.
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Apr 22, 2013 05:26
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DrSunshine posted:Yeah, I've been finding that certain nations are easier to nudge into Social Democracy than others. I recently started a HoD game as the USA just to try it out, and it's been very slow getting social reforms passed, even with a socialist plurality party. There's actually already been a series of games like this made, starting with 'Power Politics' way back in the early 1990s and continuing with various iterations of 'The Political Machine', which is the same game made by the same people with cutesy 3D graphics and updated candidate lists. The dev company is Stardock. They actually sort of suck, because the issues are static and the same for every game, the positions of different regions and population groups on those issues are static and the same for every game, there's usually no 'custom candidate' option, and third parties are severely hampered in Power Politics and absent from the game entirely in the next three games.
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Apr 22, 2013 05:42
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90% of the times that people have trouble with passing social reforms, they're trying to act like a 19th Century ruler with a 21st Century mindset. They're all "oh, I want to be so super progressive, so I'll just treat my people really really well and eventually I'll have a glorious communist utopia!" It doesn't work like that at all. Treating your people well will just make them stay conservative. Why change things if things are already awesome?
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Apr 22, 2013 05:51
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V for Vegas posted:I've hit 1880 in my Austria game and I've still got absolute monarchy with Con and Mil below 1. No movement has a strength over 30, and all rebels are less than 1k. Main reason not to change is my ruling party is 'the Iron Ring', which sounds like a trashy 80s hair metal band.
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Apr 22, 2013 06:00
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gradenko_2000 posted:Why are my middle-class POPs not upgrading to Capitalists? Can someone help me puzzle out these modifiers? The red X's mean that none of those percentages are affecting that pop. You literacy is above 30%; That's good because the -10% modifier to conversion only applies when you literacy is below 30%. There are two possible positive modifiers in that list. One is about crisis states, which are an HoD thing right? I don't know about that. The other requires the artisan pop to get more than 100% of their daily luxury goods need. That might be a little impractical, and it's a tiny bonus, so it's not important either. If you want more of any pop, national focuses are the way to go. The higher class a pop is, the less natural conversion there is towards it. Edit: Different pop types also have difference conversion values. I think clerks are better at converting to capitalists? Artisans are actually supposed to decline into craftsmen and stuff, since industrialization killed them off and all.
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Apr 22, 2013 06:06
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Fister Roboto posted:90% of the times that people have trouble with passing social reforms, they're trying to act like a 19th Century ruler with a 21st Century mindset. They're all "oh, I want to be so super progressive, so I'll just treat my people really really well and eventually I'll have a glorious communist utopia!" It doesn't work like that at all. Treating your people well will just make them stay conservative. Why change things if things are already awesome? James The 1st posted:That's what all games are, numbers... Wolfgang Pauli fucked around with this message at 06:16 on Apr 22, 2013 |
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Apr 22, 2013 06:07
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Mister Bates posted:They actually sort of suck, because the issues are static and the same for every game, the positions of different regions and population groups on those issues are static and the same for every game, there's usually no 'custom candidate' option, and third parties are severely hampered in Power Politics and absent from the game entirely in the next three games. I'm 80% sure that the key issues of a state are randomized per game, and completely sure that there's a custom candidate option in The Political Machine 2012. I didn't get into it much though - seemed too abstract. Maybe I should've put more time into it.
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Apr 22, 2013 06:08
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gradenko_2000 posted:Why are my middle-class POPs not upgrading to Capitalists? Can someone help me puzzle out these modifiers? First off, the localisation file for the text on these modifiers is an absolute mess. I'm absolutely certain that the "crisis state" thing is an unintentional error in the localisation files, because before HOD those modifiers used to be just "state has no factories" and such. Looks like someone did a lazy find-replace. Also, that "Can not build factory" after the green asterisk should actually be "Can build factory." Basically what it means is if the state in which the POP resides has no factories AND capitalists are allowed to build factories, then they get a +5% modifier to conversion. If the positive modifiers outweigh the negative ones, then that POP will start to convert to capitalists.
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Apr 22, 2013 06:23
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gradenko_2000 posted:I'm 80% sure that the key issues of a state are randomized per game, and completely sure that there's a custom candidate option in The Political Machine 2012. I didn't get into it much though - seemed too abstract. Maybe I should've put more time into it. 2012 is pretty much the best game in the series so far, barring the original Power Politics which only runs on Windows 3.1 and is 21 years old. All it really needs is custom political parties and it would be a really good elections game. The previous two games can be safely skipped, though.
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Apr 22, 2013 06:24
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DrSunshine posted:Yeah, I've been finding that certain nations are easier to nudge into Social Democracy than others. I recently started a HoD game as the USA just to try it out, and it's been very slow getting social reforms passed, even with a socialist plurality party. USA's national value is Liberty, meaning it's people have a natural inclination to Liberalism/Anarcho-Liberalism. National Values are things that often get ignored in V2 discussion but they affect a hell of a lot of stuff. An Order country in the late game will be 10-15% Fascist even if it owns every one of its cores and has 0 revaunchism, and prior to Fascism will have super-strong Reactionaries making reform a pain in the rear end even with high militancy.
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Apr 22, 2013 06:39
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Spent most of today taking Persia from 1836 to 1916. Oscillating between 9th and 11th place, nearly maxed out on research, feeling pretty good. One odd thing: when I started promoting capitalists (in an attempt to unstick my broken economy, which was running a massive deficit even on max tax/tariff & near-min spending - I was hoping the capitalists would get something done while I waited for the depression to pass), I noticed that the capitalists weren't doing anything. When I looked closer, every one of them was completely penniless. Any idea what was causing that? (The problem resolved itself sometime after my economy unfucked itself.)
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Apr 22, 2013 06:47
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PleasingFungus posted:Any idea what was causing that? (The problem resolved itself sometime after my economy unfucked itself.)
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Apr 22, 2013 07:01
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PleasingFungus posted:Spent most of today taking Persia from 1836 to 1916. Oscillating between 9th and 11th place, nearly maxed out on research, feeling pretty good. That would be the max taxes and tariffs!
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Apr 22, 2013 07:06
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I just played a game to around 1865 as Japan wondering why the hell my capitalists were so lazy and not building anything. I realized just as I was saving and quitting for the night that Japan's reactionary party, which I had in power the entire time, has planned economy, not letting my capis do poo poo. Pdox should really make it so you can't use NFs to promote capis when you have a planned economy party to help ignoramuses like myself not waste NFs. I never realized how poorly I understood industry until I had to build all of the factories. Also multiple crises have started over Korea and stalled because they had no backer. Feels good to sidestep the consequences of expansionism.
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Apr 22, 2013 08:50
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The "End of the Revolution" event (signifying the end of the Age of Liberalism in 1848) really needs to not fire if there is an ongoing revolt. I had a surefire massive-majority Jacobin revolution suddenly disband because this event fired just before their sure victory.
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Apr 22, 2013 08:54
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Puella Magissima posted:I just played a game to around 1865 as Japan wondering why the hell my capitalists were so lazy and not building anything. I realized just as I was saving and quitting for the night that Japan's reactionary party, which I had in power the entire time, has planned economy, not letting my capis do poo poo. Pdox should really make it so you can't use NFs to promote capis when you have a planned economy party to help ignoramuses like myself not waste NFs. I never realized how poorly I understood industry until I had to build all of the factories. I would rather have that. I played a game to 1864 with a country that was pretty strongly democratic and liberal. Laissez-faire all the way. I could not for the life of me encourage any industrialization. I still have no idea how to get capitalists started without doing it myself. Even threw some NFs at encouraging industry.
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Apr 22, 2013 09:35
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Also, I'm not sure if this is HoD or NNM, but rebel soldier POPs don't seem to be joining their rebel comrades when a rebellion breaks out.
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Apr 22, 2013 10:05
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Mister Bates posted:2012 is pretty much the best game in the series so far, barring the original Power Politics which only runs on Windows 3.1 and is 21 years old. All it really needs is custom political parties and it would be a really good elections game. The previous two games can be safely skipped, though. It's really boring that The Political Machine only has two parties vying for power. A parliamentary model would be much more interesting, I think. In HoD news, in my German Empire game, I have very few capitalists (maybe ten thousand), but they are extremely wealthy and building tons of factories, so that's OK. However, for some reason... half of them are Jewish. Is this, uh, some special-case for Jewish POPs, or just bizarre chance? In my game, they really do run the world.
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Apr 22, 2013 10:49
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Athas posted:It's really boring that The Political Machine only has two parties vying for power. A parliamentary model would be much more interesting, I think. Dunno about half of them being Jews, but it doesn't matter how many capitalists you have, as long as you have some. All the income from all the factories in your country will be split among however many capitalists you have - so actually it's better to have less, so the few you do have will be able to fulfil their luxury needs with no trouble and re-invest all their other money in the economy. (The exception is in PDM, where capitalists give research points)
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Apr 22, 2013 11:07
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Patter Song posted:USA's national value is Liberty, meaning it's people have a natural inclination to Liberalism/Anarcho-Liberalism.
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Apr 22, 2013 11:15
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As far as reform chat goes, playing as the USA I'd passed every reform except Safety Regulations by 1870-80ish, and every single reform by 1900 (I wasn't really paying attention to when). I think the real key is, as people have said, to get as much militancy as you can, especially early on. My reforms floundered later on because I started getting Laissez-Faire parties in charge who wouldn't let me tax my poors into oblivion, and my militancy dropped like a rock, and has rarely been above 1 since then. I spent a huge amount of time early game sitting at more than 6 militancy, though that was made easier because I could abuse Civil War events. Also, later in the game, you'll often end up getting tons of events that have option to boost Socialist support with your people, with some doing absurd things like giving +20% Socialist support in poor strata of a province. Using those events and a few national focuses, I ended up getting socialists elected fairly often, and some states, like New York, have 70% or higher socialist support.
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Apr 22, 2013 11:53
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Scotland has turned into a Communist state! This has had both good and bad effects. I had to re-establish all my spheres and I also dropped to 8th in ranking because I had to stop subsidising factories as it was costing a huuuuuuuge amount of money. Alot of factories closed, but I've rebuilt and i'm at 6th now. Could really do with an explanation though as to how to determine what will make lots of money factory wise. Factories that I thought would do well didn't and its difficult to determine why.
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Apr 22, 2013 12:06
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ThatBasqueGuy posted:You actually might just want to consider making everything start as a state. I got to GP status purely through converting colonies to states. I am alright with the first, Croatia could use the handy prestige to boost its score, and CroatAI tends to occasionally pop up as a GP for only a few years if they show up at all. Those who brave the Kroatstralian Outback are heroes one and all. Hmmm... I think I'll add those Machine Factory parts to North Africa, since I've been meaning to industrialize the region. Thanks for the input! And sorry for the accidental pun!
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Apr 22, 2013 12:20
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WMain00 posted:Could really do with an explanation though as to how to determine what will make lots of money factory wise. Factories that I thought would do well didn't and its difficult to determine why. Without knowing the specifics of your game, the answer is most likely that someone else in the world had the tech to manufacture widgets much more efficiently than you did, and for a lower price, so they were outselling you. You weren't making money because you weren't selling any product because of being out-competed. The other possibility (though not as big of a possibility if you were a GP with your own sphere) is that your factories weren't always getting all of their required inputs. Ages ago I had a Brazil game where my luxury furniture factories weren't making poo poo because, for some reason, all of my tropical wood was being sold on the global market and none was left for my industrial base. I'm pretty sure past patches/APD fixed this, since now every time I do a South American nation, luxury furniture is my #1 good. Random spergthing I love about V2 though: looking at the trade goods screen and seeing that my little podunk nation is number 1 in the world at manufacturing <thing>.
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Apr 22, 2013 12:21
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Drone posted:Random spergthing I love about V2 though: looking at the trade goods screen and seeing that my little podunk nation is number 1 in the world at manufacturing <thing>. Even better, being number one at EVERYTHING  But seriously, nothing feels better than ending the game as the only real industrialized nation left, standing atop the corpses of the world as you force feed them cheep goods.
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Apr 22, 2013 13:00
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ThatBasqueGuy posted:Even better, being number one at EVERYTHING So you were playing China then? I caved and went back a save before Communist Scotland begun. Communism utterly ruined everything! 
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Apr 22, 2013 14:27
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| # ? May 29, 2024 01:37 |
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And that is why I have never ever tried to encourage revolutions. 
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Apr 22, 2013 14:38
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