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treeboy posted:the only time i'd actually encountered something like that was a temp animator who joined the team and about three weeks in left to go work at Naughty Dog with maybe a weeks warning. And yeah that's pretty much how he handled it, "hey got a gig at ND...peace" I know a guy who literally was moving to one job and with his poo poo on the moving trucks said "peace bitches" and turned his moving truck around to go take another job elsewhere.
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Apr 19, 2013 01:25
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Sigma-X posted:I know a guy who literally was moving to one job and with his poo poo on the moving trucks said "peace bitches" and turned his moving truck around to go take another job elsewhere.  that's ballsy, the closest I've come was my first day in NY I had a Blizzard recruiter email asking if I'd be interested in taking a test for the WoW anim team. I politely declined and said I'd just started working for Activision, and was very flattered and to give the guys my best. She said to keep in touch (big ego boost even if it was a small thing) which brings me to my next piece of advice for students and prospective industry folk Be very courteous and polite, even in email communications. In this instance I had applied for a position with Blizzard on their SC2 animation team a few months prior and had gotten an art test from them. I didn't have time to finish it, but things had been progressing nicely with my now current studio so I emailed them back and said "hey thank you so much, unfortunately I don't have time to finish it and I've been presented with other career opportunities so I'm respectfully withdrawing my application. I really appreciate the interest in my work and wish you all the best of luck." This paid off when I received the aforementioned interest from the WoW team who'd been shown my stuff as well after the fact. Was it simply because I was polite? Probably not, but I like to think it helped.
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Apr 19, 2013 02:10
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I've been seeing a ton of QA listings for big companies mostly in California, which makes me wonder why Austin is so dead right now when it's supposedly a game industry hotspot. Right now I'm choosing between trying to survive a short contract at an awful third-party QA company, or risk going to work for another even shorter contract at a similar place in the hopes that it isn't as terrible. Did Bioware's downsizing and Vigil's closure account for that much of the game industry presence in the area, or are literally all the developers here just in phases where they don't need testers?
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Apr 20, 2013 03:11
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Don't forget about Junction Point, and Zynga not too long ago.
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Apr 20, 2013 03:59
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miscellaneous14 posted:I've been seeing a ton of QA listings for big companies mostly in California, which makes me wonder why Austin is so dead right now when it's supposedly a game industry hotspot. Right now I'm choosing between trying to survive a short contract at an awful third-party QA company, or risk going to work for another even shorter contract at a similar place in the hopes that it isn't as terrible. It has been way more than just Bioware and Vigil, Austin has been getting demolished for the last year. One of the worst cities for game industry layoffs in the world recently.
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Apr 20, 2013 03:59
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waffledoodle posted:Don't forget about Junction Point, and Zynga not too long ago. Dinurth posted:It has been way more than just Bioware and Vigil, Austin has been getting demolished for the last year. One of the worst cities for game industry layoffs in the world recently. That's true, though I really wonder why Austin specifically has been so bad in that regard. It also makes me wonder if it'd be worth the massive hassle of moving to another city with a more stable industry presence, just for more QA jobs with little pay and nonexistent job security.
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Apr 20, 2013 04:18
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Don't relocate for QA. For the love of all that's good in the world, don't relocate for QA.
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Apr 20, 2013 04:34
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miscellaneous14 posted:That's true, though I really wonder why Austin specifically has been so bad in that regard. The other hubs aren't quite so focused, but Austin was all about online. So when that market went, poof. EDIT: Though I assume this is mostly because it was a new hub, and it just so happened that the large employers there were mostly online. Guessing there's plenty of non-online other studios, they're just kind of drowning in the laid off flood right now. Shalinor fucked around with this message at 06:15 on Apr 20, 2013 |
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Apr 20, 2013 05:24
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Just reminding people there's an IRC channel for game dev goons (and a ton of other goon IRC channels). See the first post for info on it. I'm trying to idle in it more often, hopefully other people will too.
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Apr 20, 2013 06:06
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Thanks to the help of AmazonTony I made a cover letter that I'd be pleased with to send off for internships for the summer. I was going to start sending them out when I was approached by one of my professors to work on a research project over the summer that amounts to an educational game on database relational algebra. Pretty excited about it because it's something that'd be great for my resume and to list on my portfolio, also has the added benefit of not being the entire summer so I can work on my portfolio and not feel like an rear end in a top hat sitting around doing nothing all summer. Thanks for the help Tony!
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Apr 20, 2013 15:08
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Monochrome posted:Don't relocate for QA. For the love of all that's good in the world, don't relocate for QA. I strongly disagree.
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Apr 20, 2013 15:09
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treeboy posted:Be very courteous and polite, even in email communications. This. Don't burn bridges with people you might end up working with again. This industry is really bizarrely incestuous, even moving across the country to Colorado, I'm bumping into people I worked with in Baltimore at Big Huge Games and Zynga (Austin and Bmore). Even unexpectedly stumbled into a former colleague from BHG/38 in the hallway a few days ago, interviewing for a position with my new studio. I was in a tough position as I was talking to so many prospective employers right on the tail of the Zynga East studio closure; I had the choice to transfer over to SF or decline and find work elsewhere. I had to be very careful with my negotiations, and was talking to several prospective employers; but ultimately, I liked the studio in Colorado so much that I was able to make up my mind. I politely let the other studios know that I had accepted an offer already, and that I appreciated their time and hoped to do work with them in the future. The nature of the offer I ultimately accepted was kind of unique (I had pressured them to expedite it based on my conversations/negotiations with the Z); and I didn't want to keep them waiting as I shopped around other places when I already knew this was a good studio for me to land. Sometimes you do have to make a tough or weird decision (reneging on a contract [what I had to do ultimately], or leaving a job for another one soon after starting), but there are ways to do it courteously that will minimize the perception of it being a total dick move.
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Apr 20, 2013 19:50
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Frown Town posted:This. Don't burn bridges with people you might end up working with again. This industry is really bizarrely incestuous, even moving across the country to Colorado, I'm bumping into people I worked with in Baltimore at Big Huge Games and Zynga (Austin and Bmore). Even unexpectedly stumbled into a former colleague from BHG/38 in the hallway a few days ago, interviewing for a position with my new studio. The absolute best thing I ever did for myself in trying to navigate this industry as a newcomer has been picking up and reading a copy of Dale Carnegie's How to Win Friends and Influence People. I cannot recommend reading it enough regardless of position in life, but it will work wonders in an industry like ours.
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Apr 20, 2013 23:01
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Monster w21 Faces posted:I strongly disagree. I know you're in the UK, so maybe things are different there (For one, the distances between any of our major game development hubs are about 3 times the length of the UK), but especially given the majority of QA positions are contract positions, you're looking at burning $2k-$6k per relocation from one hub to another (or to a place that isn't a hub). And that's ignoring the human cost of putting yourself several UK lengths away from whatever social networks you've built up in that area. If you have a permanent QA position offered that is above entry level, then I would consider it, and know people who have, but for anything less you're much better off just spending the time working a job that is less draining than QA and working on developing some tangible skills for a development discipline. People like yourself can make the jump from QA to Design, but to be that kind of person and have that kind of opportunity means to be in a position where you aren't asking for general advice of an internet forum.
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Apr 20, 2013 23:51
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Sigma-X posted:People like yourself can make the jump from QA to Design, but to be that kind of person and have that kind of opportunity means to be in a position where you aren't asking for general advice of an internet forum. And that's the issue, while I enjoy working within the gaming industry, I know virtually nothing as far as actual design goes and so I'm pretty much stuck working in this sector with maybe a hope of being a QA lead one day if I put up with all this for a few more years. I have noticed a lot of engineer listings in the area lately, which I'm thinking might be a good skill set to pursue. Are these positions always in demand, or is it just a temporary spike due to it being an unpopular career choice for students?
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Apr 21, 2013 00:53
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miscellaneous14 posted:I know virtually nothing as far as actual design goes Neither do lots of designers. 
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Apr 21, 2013 01:18
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miscellaneous14 posted:And that's the issue, while I enjoy working within the gaming industry, I know virtually nothing as far as actual design goes and so I'm pretty much stuck working in this sector with maybe a hope of being a QA lead one day if I put up with all this for a few more years. Good engineers are always in demand and are much safer than artists or designers in terms of skills that are transferable to jobs outside the industry. But notice that I said "good." There are enough lovely programmers around that companies are very wary of lovely programmers, so you're going to have to commit if you intend to pursue this as a career.
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Apr 21, 2013 01:20
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Any Day of the Tentacle fans? Drew something for fun today-- this is a tribute to the studio that inspired me to become a video game artist. Entered it into a Shirt.Woot derby under the theme "how are you different?" but don't really expect much traction for it unless there is a secret rabid fan base I'm not aware of; but as a rabid fan, I wanted to draw Purple Tentacle.  Links to the derby entry - if you have a woot account and feel like signing in and voting, go for it. edit: one more, I was actually working on this before the DOTT drawing but it gave me such a headache I needed to take a break from it. http://shirt.woot.com/derby/entry/70979/d-kongs-starry-night 
Frown Town fucked around with this message at 19:14 on Apr 21, 2013 |
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Apr 21, 2013 01:49
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Jan posted:Neither do lots of designers. This is one of the jokes where the humor comes from the truth behind it.
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Apr 21, 2013 03:14
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Sigma-X posted:This is one of the jokes where the humor comes from the truth behind it. I remember (or had a gnarly dream where I was) reading a post by a goon a few years ago for a then-not-yet-released game where he lamented the lead designer making a bunch of bad decisions, and the entire team was only able to talk him out of one. The game was a time travelling game where if you killed certain special dudes (thereby altering the timeline) it would result in some time police showing up and wrecking your poo poo. Apparently the designer thought it would be a good idea to not show the player who these special people in history were, and also make the time police invincible. That was the one concept they convinced him to change. That game was later released under the name "Darkest of Days".
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Apr 21, 2013 04:48
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SAHChandler posted:That game was later released under the name "Darkest of Days". What a game 
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Apr 21, 2013 13:40
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It was special alright.
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Apr 22, 2013 07:37
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Hearing gossip about some layoffs at a local games company and the dodgy management behavior. Shame.
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Apr 22, 2013 11:53
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Come on, at least give a city name.
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Apr 22, 2013 12:28
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North East of England, that is as detailed as I'm saying. 
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Apr 22, 2013 12:31
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As for moving for a QA job, it depends on if you have any prospects locally I guess. I moved across the country (a much bigger country) for a QA job, but: * It was production QA, so a developer position * I made it clear to them I wanted to move into design and made sure they knew that * It was moving to socal, which has a ton of developers * I'm massively irresponsible
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Apr 22, 2013 12:44
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A Sloth posted:North East of England, that is as detailed as I'm saying. I'm guessing Newcastle/Gateshead :I Always a sad time when you hear of layoffs 
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Apr 22, 2013 13:15
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Anyone got any tips for running a QA department? 
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Apr 23, 2013 00:24
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GetWellGamers posted:Anyone got any tips for running a QA department? Three words, daily bug quota. (Holy crap don't do this)
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Apr 23, 2013 00:28
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GetWellGamers posted:Anyone got any tips for running a QA department? Do you have any specific questions? Standards for everything Train Ad Hoc Testing Use good bug tracking software and configure it to work for you Reward those eager QA guys, give them stuff to do that will allow them to take work off your leads etc. A million other things  Also: Just to be super clear and reiterate what Taxi said. Nothing shows a lack of understanding of QA more than bug quotas. Never do this.
Resource fucked around with this message at 03:08 on Apr 23, 2013 |
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Apr 23, 2013 00:43
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Hire too many testers for a DLC pack, give them a daily quota then bitch when they try to test AI spawning and pathfinding in the co-op levels instead of dogpiling onto a limited number of easy environment bugs. Hrrrrrrrrrnnnnnnng.
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Apr 23, 2013 01:17
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GetWellGamers posted:Anyone got any tips for running a QA department? I'm reading "Managing the Testing Process" right now and it has some tricks I'm trying to put into practice, but I'm building a non-games QA department from the ground up. I would, at least, try to implement a risk-based testing approach.
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Apr 23, 2013 01:17
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GetWellGamers posted:Anyone got any tips for running a QA department? Test case management
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Apr 23, 2013 01:21
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Make sure that the testers are nameless and faceless to the rest of the organization. Have their names in the bugtracker be QA1 QA2 and QA3, etc and at no point treat them like actual human beings or valued employees. Forget their names and refer to them by generic nicknames like champ or buddy. Make fun of them with other coworkers while they're in ear shot. Make sure they're not invited to company events that everyone else attends, especially things like in-office birthday parties or crunch dinners. Anytime the company as a whole is rewarded with anything (movies, t-shirts, etc) make sure they are not allowed to receive them, or make them compete to get the one given to "QA" as a whole. Refer to them as "QA" collectively, there are no individuals in the department. QA is not to go to lunch with the rest of the company, and must take their lunch at times so as to not interact with the other employees. QA is not allowed to use the free drinks and must bring their own from home, or have a little cup next to the fridge marked "QA" where they must pay $1 for a soda. Anytime a QA member makes an error or steps even the slightest bit out of (unexplained) lines, berate him via email and CC anyone even vaguely connected with the issue. That should get you off to a good start!
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Apr 23, 2013 01:28
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Some of these are funny... and then just sad.  Yes, Quotas are stupid and useless. As I'e said before, paraphrasing Tyler Durden, "You're not your loving bugcount." My big deal is always progress. Are we, as a team, forcing the overall bugcount to decline week by week? Great. If not, it will be called attention to and we'll work harder at it. As for personalizing, I was actually planning on going to lunch with each member of the team, starting with the lead and working my way down, one per day, and keeping the results (Name, experience, why they got into the industry, favorite things to test) in an excel spreadsheet. Or is that a little too hover-y? I'm pretty good at Ad-hoc testing and have taught others how to do it well before, so that shouldn't be a problem. I might check out that book on risk-based testing, Mono, but from what I understand that system's pretty built-in to just haing a priority scale in terms of crash/freeze, critical path, etc. Personally, I think that unless the build is just in shambles you should never assign all your testers to Type1/A/Critical bugs, because while it's true that crash bugs are more important, I'll say in the same breath that in the final product, even simple cosmetic errors are enough to make people stop mid-session and go "Really? Portaling errors? In 2013? Really guys?  " It won't stop them from enjoying the game on the same level as a crash or freeze, but it can ruin their enjoyment just as powerfully.Also, since books were brought up already, "Team Leadership In The Game Industry" is a fantastic book because it really aknowledges the pitfalls of working with people who might e smart and clever and motivated but handicapped by being enormous nerds.
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Apr 23, 2013 03:03
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Irish Taxi Driver posted:Three words, daily bug quota. The QA farm I'm working for is doing this. D1Sergo posted:Hire too many testers for a DLC pack, give them a daily quota then bitch when they try to test AI spawning and pathfinding in the co-op levels instead of dogpiling onto a limited number of easy environment bugs. And of course this is what always happens. Bug quotas in general are a loving stupid idea by people in upper-management with no connection to the game at hand whatsoever.
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Apr 23, 2013 03:21
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I have a small-ish job offer, for any 3D animators that could use a bit of work on the side. I have a game with characters that looks like this: ... and the way they're animated is purely with squash and stretch and a bit of translation. The animation rig would involve no actual skinning, you'd just be working with a rig with 4 locators in it (hat pivot, body pivot / clothes pivot, left eye pivot, right eye pivot). You animate up some squashy movements, dump, and then in-engine I mount the body/clothes/eyes appropriate to the character as children of the locators. (on LEGO, we called the style "weeble wobble" animation) It's the same style I used in Jones On Fire, but an actual animator could do it way more justice. I work in Unity 3D, and really only know the Maya output pipeline, but I imagine you could just as easily use Blender/Max. If you're interested, give me a shout at business@glassbottomgames.com... and hopefully, you'd be available for additional work, as we need more animations on the same rig. EDIT: VV Hey, she wasn't nude. She had a jacket! Shalinor fucked around with this message at 03:49 on Apr 23, 2013 |
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Apr 23, 2013 03:21
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miscellaneous14 posted:The QA farm I'm working for is doing this. See, this is why I personally refuse to ever advise people to go into QA. Sure, there are nice places to QA at, but for the larger part, management expectations of what QA performance should be is so disconnected from reality. No one wants to deal with the impact of bug quotas, least of all the developers receiving these bugs, so you end up in a position where everyone hates your guts for doing your job.
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Apr 23, 2013 03:30
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That is a scandalously low-cut dress. And it implies that someone has been dashing around in the forest, rescuing kittens in the nude.
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Apr 23, 2013 03:31
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Jan posted:See, this is why I personally refuse to ever advise people to go into QA. Sure, there are nice places to QA at, but for the larger part, management expectations of what QA performance should be is so disconnected from reality. No one wants to deal with the impact of bug quotas, least of all the developers receiving these bugs, so you end up in a position where everyone hates your guts for doing your job. I've been lucky so far and been at a few in-house QA positions where they didn't do any of this nonsense like bug quotas or refusing to let you take phones into the testing floor (  ), and actually paid a decent wage (for QA, anyway). Beyond just the obvious reasons for why these sorts of things are a bad idea, like quotas encouraging useless bugs like "bush is .2 centimeters above ground", it shocks me that no one in the management process realizes "hey, maybe we'll get better work from these testers if we're not bearing down at them at every opportunity and making them feel like human garbage".But nope, put in your 5 bugs a day or you're getting written up, slacker.
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Apr 23, 2013 03:37
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