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Koramei posted:Not even just European-Americans, it's pretty true of immigrants the world over. And you're being pretty gracious about it "make an active effort to understand and preserve their heritage" I'm speaking from an American perspective, but I don't really see this. Most Irish-Americans don't really care about the status of Northern Ireland one way or the other. The only really irrational examples I can think of are Southern Vietnamese and Cubans really hating the governments of their home nations, but that's understandable considering what those governments did to their parents and grandparents.
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Apr 22, 2013 19:12
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, but expatriates and descendants of immigrants are as a rule ridiculously irrational about everything to do with their home nation. Terrorist groups like the IRA and LTTE are primarily funded by descendents of immigrants rather than people actually having to live with them day to day, for instance. 
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menino posted:Gangs of Chicago I might be dumb but what's the difference between people and folks?
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Apr 22, 2013 19:21
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Konstantin posted:I'm speaking from an American perspective, but I don't really see this. Most Irish-Americans don't really care about the status of Northern Ireland one way or the other. The only really irrational examples I can think of are Southern Vietnamese and Cubans really hating the governments of their home nations, but that's understandable considering what those governments did to their parents and grandparents. It is true that the pre-Goulding IRA had serious sponsorship from Irish ex-pats in the States, but that supply was severely diminished by shift towards political engagement and social responsibility (i.e. "communism") that Goulding and later Adams brought to the movement that wasn't hardcore or conservative enough to appeal to the deeply Catholic traditionalist base among the ex-pats. The super-Catholics have always been the bane of the Irish freedom movement, ever since Wolfe Tone complained about it.
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Apr 22, 2013 19:22
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Mans posted:I might be dumb but what's the difference between people and folks? Based on the "other gangs" headings, I'd say that all the gangs have banded together into two major alliances: the people and the folks.
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Apr 22, 2013 19:23
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Mans posted:I might be dumb but what's the difference between people and folks? The Folk Nation and People Nation are rival gang alliances.
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Apr 22, 2013 19:58
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ChipNDip posted:A much better map: While that map might be better because it has more information, it would piss of a cartographer because it's so all over the place. 
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Apr 22, 2013 22:24
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Does anybody have a map of alcoholic beverages over time? I'd be interested to see things like how products spread. The spread of Chicha and Pulque in the New World meets European beverages. I'd like to see how that tracks with colonialism. Ditto with Asia. Also, within Europe. The Lager (and more importantly, Pilsner) Revolution really changed beer. Likewise with the current craft beer revolution in America and the world in general. Another interesting thing would be alcohol tax vs craft beer revolution just because it seems like pigouvian taxation drives people to drink better beer (counter argument: Singapore) but even if true it still has to go against tradition (think about how Stouts changed as an effect of pigouvian taxation). I'd like Ditto with Pasteurization and other things. Very broad question, so anything you've got is great. I just love fermentation.
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Apr 23, 2013 00:09
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menino posted:Gangs of Chicago I lived up on the border of the Gangster Disciples area in the top right for a while(right about where Howard and Ashland meet on that map, though they come about half a block short of actually meeting IRL). My friend down the street's mom was in a wheelchair and the Gangster Disciples members would always help her with groceries and stuff and she'd make them cookies.  Not that gang warfare is good, it's definitely not, but a lot of the regular members are good people who just got caught up in lovely situations.
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Apr 23, 2013 00:27
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Shbobdb posted:Does anybody have a map of alcoholic beverages over time? I'd be interested to see things like how products spread. The spread of Chicha and Pulque in the New World meets European beverages. I'd like to see how that tracks with colonialism. Ditto with Asia. Also, within Europe. The Lager (and more importantly, Pilsner) Revolution really changed beer. Likewise with the current craft beer revolution in America and the world in general. Another interesting thing would be alcohol tax vs craft beer revolution just because it seems like pigouvian taxation drives people to drink better beer (counter argument: Singapore) but even if true it still has to go against tradition (think about how Stouts changed as an effect of pigouvian taxation). I'd like Ditto with Pasteurization and other things. Very broad question, so anything you've got is great. Too bad there isn't a history of food and drink thread, since I don't know if that could all be covered in a map in any detail. Certainly, the mid-late 19th century was went Pilsner rapidly spread, I know in China it was at least partly brought through German trade ports and their breweries. Pilsners themselves came about through the development then reliance on bottom-fermentation and that had to involve at least some type of temperature control. I think Pilsners are so popular because they are cheap, mild in bitterness, and very easy to drink while still intoxicating, and frankly they are also pretty profitable which means a lot during the first and second waves of globalization (late 19th century and mid 1960s to the present). For US craft-beer, I think a combination of laxer laws, changing cultural habits during the 70s and early 80s and new varieties of hops made the significant difference. American IPAs especially from the Northwest taste pretty different than a British IPA because of the development and creation of Hops types like Cascade (a much more piney flavor to it). I don't know a lot about Chicha but I am surprised you don't see more corn-based beverages in the United States all things considered.
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Apr 23, 2013 00:48
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Thanks. Yeah, I've got a lot of the actual history down. But that is why I think it would be super cool to see it in map form, you know? We should see if we can get a big ol' history of food and drink megathread going. That would be sweet. As for corn-based beverages, well, you can't malt corn. The easiest source of amylase is either saliva (Chicha) or malted grain (American lagers). Though the quintessential American drink figured that out in Bourbon. Sweetest of the brown liquors. I'm more surprised that maple sap wasn't fermented! Someone had to have left that poo poo out for a while at some point.
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Apr 23, 2013 00:56
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Shbobdb posted:Thanks. Yeah, I've got a lot of the actual history down. But that is why I think it would be super cool to see it in map form, you know? We should see if we can get a big ol' history of food and drink megathread going. That would be sweet. If you've got the history, turn it into data (excel) and it shouldn't be too hard for someone to make a map in Arc.
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Apr 23, 2013 01:10
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Sorry, I misspoke. I've got the overall trends of the history down. Not actual data. I was overly casual in a written medium, my bad.
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Apr 23, 2013 02:04
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Shbobdb posted:Thanks. Yeah, I've got a lot of the actual history down. But that is why I think it would be super cool to see it in map form, you know? We should see if we can get a big ol' history of food and drink megathread going. That would be sweet. Well, I am drinking a corn based beer alternative at the moment (New Planet Blonde) that is pretty good (comparable to actual beer with a slightly sweet aftertaste). They have found a way to get the sugars from born into a drinkable beverage, it just isn't very popular (a pity really). To be honest, the map would probably be a mess unless you really specified what you wanted, even if you're talking about beers, there is a lot of breweries out there and plenty of different styles. Anyway, if you make that mega-thread, I would certainly be interested in the OP.
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Apr 23, 2013 02:14
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Sure, we can get the amylases we want now thanks to BIOCHEMISTRY. Since gluten free is a big fad right now, I see it going a lot of interesting places. Heck, microbiology got its start with Pasteur, who was in the pocket of big wine. Biochem got its start because it was in the pocket of big beer (and to a lesser extent, big liquor). We can do whatever we want now. We are so drunk on our own power. I'm being general rather than specific primarily because I don't know what is out there. I figured a broad "what do you have?" is better than "I want X specifically". Then again, that is my personality . . . and mine is a personality unlikely to have a bunch of crazy maps available at my fingertips. A disadvantage in my case that may lead to miscommunication.
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Apr 23, 2013 02:21
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Shbobdb posted:Sorry, I misspoke. I've got the overall trends of the history down. Not actual data. I was overly casual in a written medium, my bad. That's basically coloring, the official word escapes me right now, of a map and then pressing a button so that polygons capture the coordinate system you are using and then have a place in space. Hit me up after May 22 with the data and I'll see what I can do for you.
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Apr 23, 2013 03:06
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Here is a map of Europe based on "Grapes, grains, and potatoes" used in alcohol production. This map would look very different in, say, the 12th century, when potatoes didn't grow in Europe. Also, at that time there was a warming period, resulting in England being ideal for growing wine grapes, while the south of Europe was too hot. Also, mead used to be very popular in certain regions, and distillation was not yet widespread. Note however that in Western Europe the line separating beer from wine on the map above is more or less the same as the border of the Roman Empire, and that the line in Poland seperating beer from vodka is very reminiscent of German borders before the second world war. Here's another variant of the same, showing some overlaps:  So ideally, if you're an alcoholic and love variety, you want to live in Southeast Poland/Western Ukraine Edit: One more:  Cider is also totally absent from these maps for some reason. twoday fucked around with this message at 13:45 on Apr 23, 2013 |
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Apr 23, 2013 13:26
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Vodka can be made from grains and really basically all the most popular vodka brands on the depicted vodka belt are grain-based and first vodkas were also either made from grain or alternatively even grapes. Potato-based vodkas didn't really even exist until 1800s anyways, so the Columbian exchange didn't really have a massive influence on popularity of vodka as a drink. e: also neither Sweden or Finland are really part of the vodka belt proper with beer really being basically the most consumpted alcohol drink while in e.g. Russia it remains clearly the most popular choice. Skeleton Jelly fucked around with this message at 13:42 on Apr 23, 2013 |
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Apr 23, 2013 13:39
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Skeleton Jelly posted:e: also neither Sweden or Finland are really part of the vodka belt proper with beer really being basically the most consumpted alcohol drink while in e.g. Russia it remains clearly the most popular choice. Russia is also one of the largest beer manufacturers in the world (probably even bigger a vodka manufacturer but still). EDIT: Third largest, it seems. 3D Megadoodoo fucked around with this message at 14:05 on Apr 23, 2013 |
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Apr 23, 2013 13:44
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Jerry Cotton posted:Russia is also one of the largest beer manufacturers in the world (probably even bigger a vodka manufacturer but still). Yeah, Russia manufactures a lot of both, but vodka remains the most popular alcoholic drink there and assumably in Belarus and Ukraine too, whereas in Scandinavia and iirc in the Baltic countries as well beer has driven past it. They still drink lots of beer in Russia, just even more vodka.
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Apr 23, 2013 13:49
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twoday posted:Here is a map of Europe based on "Grapes, grains, and potatoes" used in alcohol production. Interesting how there's a general correlation with linguistic boundaries here.
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Apr 23, 2013 15:36
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Skeleton Jelly posted:Yeah, Russia manufactures a lot of both, but vodka remains the most popular alcoholic drink there and assumably in Belarus and Ukraine too, whereas in Scandinavia and iirc in the Baltic countries as well beer has driven past it. They still drink lots of beer in Russia, just even more vodka. Looking at most corner markets in Russia, beer has really taken over, of course there is still plenty of Vodka but an entire aisle even in a small store is usually devoted to beer. Also usually there is a decent sized wine section. At least in the larger cities, Beer is the popular beverage to drink especially among younger people. Also, since Vodka was invented in Poland (Russia really didn't have the technological knowledge at that point), it makes sense it would spread in the hinterlands dominated by Poland-Lithuania and into Muscovy while Central and Western Europe already had more or less established their own drinking cultures. Granted, during this period honey-type drinks and Kvass, a beer made from stale bread were also quite popular. Hell, Kvass has even made a comeback in Russia to the point that Coke and Pepsi are producing their own brands.
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Apr 23, 2013 16:52
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Ardennes posted:Looking at most corner markets in Russia, beer has really taken over This was probably entirely because of a huge, long-term marketing effort by certain foreign breweries.
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Apr 23, 2013 16:58
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Sorry about starting a Breton language derail everyone, I have a bad habit of that.  System Metternich posted:Soviet Commubot, I've been wondering: how did you as an American from Michigan end up with the language revival efforts in Brittany? Not to get too E/N here but it was random chance in being introduced to the language and culture, I was working as a temporary English teacher in a high school here and just happened upon people who spoke Breton. I thought it was neat so I took a couple of months of night classes in the language as something to do and absolutely fell in love with the language and culture. At that point in my life after my teaching contract I had a choice between going back in to the Army, moving back in with my family in the States and trying to find a job with an undergrad degree in French or staying here and trying to do something with with the whole Breton language thing. With those options it wasn't a hard choice. TheImmigrant posted:Seriously though, how identifiable is an American accent in Breton? How often do Breton speakers hear any accent other than a French one? Is an American accent in Breton distinguishable from a British or Australian one? I learned Occitan/Catalan years ago, and no one could identify my accent as American either. It's because most people in Perpinya or Girona had never met an American who spoke their language before. If you go to 4:17 on this video there's an American speaking Breton (the old dude with the moustache) who sounds American to me and is at least identifiable as an English speaker to Breton people I've asked about it because of his vowels, his L and his use of the retroflex R, which is used in the Tregor dialect but not with those vowels. There are several dialects in Breton with very distinct rules of pronuncation so Breton speakers tend to have an ear for accents, unlike monolingual French speakers, they just attach whatever stereotypes they have about foreigners speaking French to Breton. The video is subtitled in French. http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xxpdhj_bali-breizh-24-02-2013-liesyezhegezh-vost_tv#.UXajD7VkOSo That said, I'm not sure that one could differentiate between anglophone accents in Breton without a certain familiarity with English, which the Cornish guy I was talking about certainly had. I could definitely tell he was British of some sort from his accent in Breton. Fun fact: The lady talking about classical music at the beginning is from Quebec and a regular presenter on the show. HighClassSwankyTime posted:The question's been asked before but I'm really curious what an American is doing in France who identifies with Breton nationalists and is also a socialist. How to people react when you're being an activist for the Breton cause, as a friend or unwanted interference? Most Breton nationalists are on the left side of the spectrum so my politics aren't seen as a problem. I've never had a negative reaction other than people who react negatively to the Breton language itself, which are pretty few and far between. People see my being foreign as a novelty but in a positive way, nobody has ever called me a damned foreign meddler or anything like that, at least openly. Konstantin posted:A lot of European-Americans try to make an active effort to understand and preserve their heritage. If you're British or French or whatever you probably know in a general sense where your ancestors came from, but many Americans have no idea where they came from beyond "I'm white, and all my grandparents were born here". People want to know where they came from and want to preserve that heritage, and when you are far away from where your ancestors were, you need to make an active effort to do that. A corollary issue is the fact that it's almost impossible to trace the heritage of an African-American beyond "Well, your ancestor may have been owned by John Smith, who ran a plantation in South Carolina." As far as I'm aware I have absolutely zero Breton heritage. I don't even really know where my family came from apart from my last name and I don't really care all that much either. And for actual thread content, here's a map of cider, wine and beer production in France in 1925.  And beer consumption per person in liters per year. I can't find a map of wine consumption by department but the French do still consume more wine than they do beer, 50L per person per year in comparison with 41L of beer per year on average.  Fake edit: Ardennes posted:Hell, Kvass has even made a comeback in Russia to the point that Coke and Pepsi are producing their own brands. My girlfriend, who is from Russia and incidentally also speaks Breton, makes this and it is really pretty great and super easy to do.
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Apr 23, 2013 17:13
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Ardennes posted:Looking at most corner markets in Russia, beer has really taken over, of course there is still plenty of Vodka but an entire aisle even in a small store is usually devoted to beer. Also usually there is a decent sized wine section. At least in the larger cities, Beer is the popular beverage to drink especially among younger people. Part of the rise of beer is due to lax laws. Up until this year, it wasn't even regulated as an alcoholic beverage. http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/31/16268313-beer-now-considered-alcohol-not-food-in-russia-as-new-restrictions-take-hold?lite quote:Granted, during this period honey-type drinks and Kvass, a beer made from stale bread were also quite popular. Hell, Kvass has even made a comeback in Russia to the point that Coke and Pepsi are producing their own brands. Kvass is one of the greatest things ever and should be an international phenomenon.
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Apr 23, 2013 17:24
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The rise of beer in Russia seems to be a rather recent thing. The government is promoting it heavily over vodka to reduce alcoholism and related deaths.
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Apr 23, 2013 17:37
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A very   map, the legality of pornography around the world. Red is illegal, yellow is legal with restrictions, green is legal
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Apr 23, 2013 17:45
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South Korea is actually a red country, but only as of recently I think.
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Apr 23, 2013 17:56
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I'm pretty sure there's quite a lot of restrictions in all of those green countries as well.
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Apr 23, 2013 18:01
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Jerry Cotton posted:I'm pretty sure there's quite a lot of restrictions in all of those green countries as well. I assume that they implicitly include "consenting adults" in the restriction list for green countries. Kinda goes without saying, otherwise it'd just be yellow and red all over the place.
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Apr 23, 2013 18:06
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Teddybear posted:I assume that they implicitly include "consenting adults" in the restriction list for green countries. Kinda goes without saying, otherwise it'd just be yellow and red all over the place.
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Apr 23, 2013 18:08
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Teddybear posted:I assume that they implicitly include "consenting adults" in the restriction list for green countries. Kinda goes without saying, otherwise it'd just be yellow and red all over the place. When you think about it for a while I'm sure you'll come up with a lot more than just that, not necessarily the same in all countries (animal porn is legal in some countries I think). My point was that it would be kind of nice to know what kinds of restrictions the maker of the map meant with the yellow countries because I'm assuming they meant a specific kind of restriction (distribution? content? something else?).
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Apr 23, 2013 18:09
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Jerry Cotton posted:When you think about it for a while I'm sure you'll come up with a lot more than just that, not necessarily the same in all countries (animal porn is legal in some countries I think). My point was that it would be kind of nice to know what kinds of restrictions the maker of the map meant with the yellow countries because I'm assuming they meant a specific kind of restriction (distribution? content? something else?). South Africa requires distribution from a specifically licensed and regulated premises, similar to alcohol. Australia bans sale or rental in all but a couple of areas. India bans selling it at all but nobody listens. edit: Nobody knows what Russia does 
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Apr 23, 2013 18:16
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Riso posted:The rise of beer in Russia seems to be a rather recent thing. The government is promoting it heavily over vodka to reduce alcoholism and related deaths. Yeah, and as others have said they have recently clamped down on it. Personally, I think priorizing Beer over Vodka (as far as taxation/regulation) was probably a good thing ultimately, you're never going to get rid of alcoholism in Russia, not even the Soviets could really make progress on that front after multiple attempts. Obviously 3l bottle of ultra cheap (terrible) beer being available at 2-3 places on every corner is problematic, but honestly if they weren't drinking that they would be drinking whatever the next cheapest alternative. Obviously, multi-nationals have an vested interest in this, but betting on making money off of alcohol in Russia has historically been a easy bet. Anyway, I really wish cigarettes were clamped down on far more considering how they barely have any taxes on them at all, and a pack can less than a dollar and they're so cheap and available that kids get addicted to them so easily. Granted, prices are so screwed up in Russia it is hardly a wonder, if a pound of meat (from a cheap cut) costs two-three packs of cigarettes, then it is going to cause all types of weird distortions. Back to map chat, I find it humorous that porn is illegal in Ukraine all things considered.
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Apr 23, 2013 18:16
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Jerry Cotton posted:When you think about it for a while I'm sure you'll come up with a lot more than just that, not necessarily the same in all countries (animal porn is legal in some countries I think). My point was that it would be kind of nice to know what kinds of restrictions the maker of the map meant with the yellow countries because I'm assuming they meant a specific kind of restriction (distribution? content? something else?). There was a story about someone seeing a "donkey show" in Tijuana. I don't know if it was true or not but  Does anyone have a map about animal fighting? Bull fights, chickens, dogs, do any other cultures fight anything else? Do scorpions and spiders count?
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Apr 23, 2013 18:18
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Ardennes posted:Back to map chat, I find it humorous that porn is illegal in Ukraine all things considered. Why?
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Apr 23, 2013 18:41
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Actually I looked back at the map and noticed japan was green.  It should be yellow with all the censorship thats rampant.
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Apr 23, 2013 18:52
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menino posted:Gangs of Chicago Right at 47th and kedzie it says it's part of the folk alliance, but that's a hispanic neighborhood? I could have sworn the latin kings had that area.
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Apr 23, 2013 19:05
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Amused to Death posted:A very This is also misleading because for example, obscenity is illegal in the U.S., and people have gone to prison for producing obscene pornography. I guess non-obscene pornography is legal (whatever that even means). Realistically more significant is the fact that obscenity prosecution is incredibly rare, so it's kind of a like a country with the death penalty on the books that doesn't execute people.
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Apr 23, 2013 19:36
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Ardennes posted:Obviously, multi-nationals have an vested interest in this, but betting on making money off of alcohol in Russia has historically been a easy bet. Anyway, I really wish cigarettes were clamped down on far more considering how they barely have any taxes on them at all, and a pack can less than a dollar and they're so cheap and available that kids get addicted to them so easily. Granted, prices are so screwed up in Russia it is hardly a wonder, if a pound of meat (from a cheap cut) costs two-three packs of cigarettes, then it is going to cause all types of weird distortions. Russia actually is cracking down on tobacco as well, with one of the measures being a ban on smoking in restaurants and a ban on advertising. Of course, enacting a ban and enforcing one are totally different matters.
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Apr 23, 2013 22:06
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Guavanaut posted:There's a list here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pornography_laws Russian laws are purposely confusing so that the government can choose to enforce them or ignore them as it fits their needs. Some laws are contradictory so that no matter what you do, you're breaking the law. This way the government always has an excuse to arrest you if they feel like it. Same goes for Belarus and Ukraine. 3peat posted:Why? A lot of porn came from Ukraine. It's only been illegal since 2009.
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Apr 28, 2013 19:09
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