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euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

The "should you use bar referral services" discussion is a good example as to why a FAQ would be pretty hard to do.

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joat mon
Oct 15, 2009

I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

baquerd posted:

What are the legal terms for the liability incurred when you run over someone's fence with your car? Improper conversion or something like that?

As part of your filling us in on the last 2 1/2 years of this saga, please let us know what state the fence was in.

baquerd
Jul 2, 2007

by FactsAreUseless

joat mon posted:

As part of your filling us in on the last 2 1/2 years of this saga, please let us know what state the fence was in.

It was a sturdy fence with crossbeams. Good wood. It didn't stand up to the U-Haul truck backing into it though. The owner of the fence is a lawyer and he ran out of his house to confront the driver when he heard the truck hit it the second time (the driver didn't realize the fence was hit the first time).

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

It is negligence as has been mentioned.

joat mon
Oct 15, 2009

I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

baquerd posted:

It was a sturdy fence with crossbeams. Good wood. It didn't stand up to the U-Haul truck backing into it though. The owner of the fence is a lawyer and he ran out of his house to confront the driver when he heard the truck hit it the second time (the driver didn't realize the fence was hit the first time).

What jurisdiction is the fence in?
How/why has this dragged on for 2 1/2 years?
What happened with the release you drew up?
Why are you now concerned about how the case is labeled (If you think there's a statute of limitations issue, it's time for an attorney)

baquerd
Jul 2, 2007

by FactsAreUseless

euphronius posted:

It is negligence as has been mentioned.

Thanks. Can I make a counter-claim for his negligence in putting a fence in the way? I figure he's got some comparative negligence. Also, his breath wasn't very fresh and I think I have emotional damages from that. I want to go pro se and start filling out some forms, what forms should I start with? Also, do I just walk up to a judge while they're in court and put the forms on their desk/podium thing? That seems like it might be the quickest way to get attention.

It was actually talked out rationally and a release of liability form was signed along with a check to fix the fence. I was just curious if there was some special term, and I had forgotten that I had asked in here 2 1/2 years ago.

baquerd fucked around with this message at 18:17 on Apr 25, 2013

joat mon
Oct 15, 2009

I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

baquerd posted:

I was just curious if there was some special term.

In the state/jurisdiction of Oklahoma it would be called "Injury to Personal Property"

e: The fence didn't happen to have gold fringe on it, did it?

joat mon fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Apr 25, 2013

JibbaJabberwocky
Aug 14, 2010

Is there anyone here who is a lawyer or who has a lot of experience with entertainment contracts and film releases? I've been approached by a studio to appear in a short one-shot pilot on a major network because of one of my hobbies and I would appreciate it if someone who understands film contracts would be able to look it over. I can give more detail if necessary but no specifics for obvious reasons. I've edited out any identifying information in this contract and would appreciate it a lot of any goons would look over it and tell me if it seems legit. I'm also interested to know if you think there any questions I should ask my contact when we Skype on Monday regarding the contract.

I am interested particularly in one section (1.a) in which I "agree to render all services reasonably required with company in connection with the development of" the show. Does this mean they could legally try and force me to take time off of work or in any other way force my hand if I do not wish to appear in a certain way?

Here is the contract:
These are truly massive so I've linked them.

EAT THE EGGS RICOLA
May 29, 2008

If this is important to you, you probably want to pay a real lawyer for this instead of relying on someone who is probably drunk and on oxy who pretends to be a lawyer on the internet for kicks.

JibbaJabberwocky
Aug 14, 2010

EAT THE EGGS RICOLA posted:

If this is important to you, you probably want to pay a real lawyer for this instead of relying on someone who is probably drunk and on oxy who pretends to be a lawyer on the internet for kicks.

Oh don't worry before me or my friends sign a thing we're getting a real lawyer to go at it. However, as we're all talking with the company on Monday we want to make sure we ask the right questions about the legal jargon in the contract. Hence this post on SA.

joat mon
Oct 15, 2009

I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

JibbaJabberwocky posted:

Is there anyone here who is a lawyer or who has a lot of experience with entertainment contracts and film releases? I've been approached by a studio to appear in a short one-shot pilot on a major network because of one of my hobbies and I would appreciate it if someone who understands film contracts would be able to look it over. I can give more detail if necessary but no specifics for obvious reasons. I've edited out any identifying information in this contract and would appreciate it a lot of any goons would look over it and tell me if it seems legit. I'm also interested to know if you think there any questions I should ask my contact when we Skype on Monday regarding the contract.

I am interested particularly in one section (1.a) in which I "agree to render all services reasonably required with company in connection with the development of" the show. Does this mean they could legally try and force me to take time off of work or in any other way force my hand if I do not wish to appear in a certain way?

Here is the contract:
These are truly massive so I've linked them.

You need a lawyer, not some person on the internet. [covered]

Some decent-seeming background here:
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3536114&userid=134693

or a talent manager?

baquerd
Jul 2, 2007

by FactsAreUseless

joat mon posted:

In the state/jurisdiction of Oklahoma it would be called "Injury to Personal Property"

e: The fence didn't happen to have gold fringe on it, did it?

Oh my god, it was a naval fence. I didn't even think about that.

BigHead
Jul 25, 2003
Huh?


Nap Ghost

baquerd posted:

What are the legal terms for the liability incurred when you run over someone's fence with your car? Improper conversion or something like that?

The legal term is "fix the loving fence you ran into." I hit the little question mark for you, and your very first post in this thread was "poo poo I hit a fence." And that was in 2010. I think you need to either stop this epidemic of hitting people's fences, or (if this is the same fence hitting episode) resolve it for the hundred bucks it costs to mend a fence. I mean seriously, just fix the fence if you hit it.

Space Gopher
Jul 31, 2006

BLITHERING IDIOT AND HARDCORE DURIAN APOLOGIST. LET ME TELL YOU WHY THIS SHIT DON'T STINK EVEN THOUGH WE ALL KNOW IT DOES BECAUSE I'M SUPER CULTURED.
I need some advice on disability issues. It's for a friend (no, really) who goes to a public university in the state of Washington.

She suffers from a peanut allergy that can be triggered by airborne particles and put her into a life-threatening situation. At the beginning of the school year, she worked with the university's disability support services, who acknowledged her as disabled, agreed to notify her professors and classmates to not bring peanut products, and put "peanut free zone" signs on the doors of rooms where she had class. As I understand it, it's not really controversial to acknowledge a food allergy that severe as a disability.

A few weeks ago, the campus library (it's a small commuter-oriented branch campus, so there's only one) changed their policy from no-food to food-allowed. She raised the issue with DSS, because the library was basically the only place on campus outside of designated peanut-free classrooms where she could study without the risk of somebody next to her busting out a PB&J, peanut butter crackers, or whatever. It's also the only place on campus with tutoring and certain computing resources. The librarians passed it up the chain, and people up to the director of the library were amenable to making at least part of the library food-free again, until the facilities people came back and said that they couldn't allow that. Not only that, the facilities people have also taken down the "peanut free zone" signs, and told DSS that they can't officially notify students and professors of her disability. My friend is free to speak to her professors and other students, but she's on her own when she does it.

The justification they've given is that it's a liability issue; they wouldn't want to be sued if they said a room was a "peanut free zone" and a student violated the policy and made it dangerous for her. Therefore, they are cutting off all accommodations that were previously offered. She is currently trying to follow up with the higher levels of university administration, but it's been a bureaucratic nightmare; the person from facilities who seems to have made the decision is fairly high up.

I have a couple of legal questions. First, to me as a layman, it seems to me like this is a massive, flashing-alarms ADA violation. Is it? Second, is the "liability issue" here a bunch of bull? And, if it isn't, is there a way she could waive liability so they could (at least in theory) offer formal accommodations again?

xxEightxx
Mar 5, 2010

Oh, it's true. You are Brock Landers!
Salad Prong

Space Gopher posted:

I need some advice on disability issues. It's for a friend (no, really) who goes to a public university in the state of Washington.

She suffers from a peanut allergy that can be triggered by airborne particles and put her into a life-threatening situation. At the beginning of the school year, she worked with the university's disability support services, who acknowledged her as disabled, agreed to notify her professors and classmates to not bring peanut products, and put "peanut free zone" signs on the doors of rooms where she had class. As I understand it, it's not really controversial to acknowledge a food allergy that severe as a disability.

A few weeks ago, the campus library (it's a small commuter-oriented branch campus, so there's only one) changed their policy from no-food to food-allowed. She raised the issue with DSS, because the library was basically the only place on campus outside of designated peanut-free classrooms where she could study without the risk of somebody next to her busting out a PB&J, peanut butter crackers, or whatever. It's also the only place on campus with tutoring and certain computing resources. The librarians passed it up the chain, and people up to the director of the library were amenable to making at least part of the library food-free again, until the facilities people came back and said that they couldn't allow that. Not only that, the facilities people have also taken down the "peanut free zone" signs, and told DSS that they can't officially notify students and professors of her disability. My friend is free to speak to her professors and other students, but she's on her own when she does it.

The justification they've given is that it's a liability issue; they wouldn't want to be sued if they said a room was a "peanut free zone" and a student violated the policy and made it dangerous for her. Therefore, they are cutting off all accommodations that were previously offered. She is currently trying to follow up with the higher levels of university administration, but it's been a bureaucratic nightmare; the person from facilities who seems to have made the decision is fairly high up.

I have a couple of legal questions. First, to me as a layman, it seems to me like this is a massive, flashing-alarms ADA violation. Is it? Second, is the "liability issue" here a bunch of bull? And, if it isn't, is there a way she could waive liability so they could (at least in theory) offer formal accommodations again?

Given the choice between a dead student and lawsuit, the university seems to have made its choice. They must have retards for attorneys. This looks to be a pretty clear cut ada issue unless the university is somehow exempt, which I doubt. Not providing your friend reasonable accomodations (or even required ones?) because they are afraid someone else may negligently endanger your friends seems idiotic to say the least; it's like Ford taking out the seatbelts in a car because it doesn't want to create liability that it tried to make the car safer in the event that someone else rear ends you. I'm not saying the University isn't entirely without any support, but it seems from the description that it is taking the position that no action is necessary, which seems stupid.

Hyzenth1ay
Oct 24, 2008
.

Thank you for the answers - really appreciate it. I'll ponder my options. I don't want to get into some awful battle, of course, but this is the first time that the whole situation has had an impact on my career.

I suppose this is what I get for not raising it in the first place :(

Also, thank you for not quoting my post.

Hyzenth1ay fucked around with this message at 04:23 on Apr 27, 2013

Schitzo
Mar 20, 2006

I can't hear it when you talk about John Druce

I won't offer Canadian advice for your specific problem, but your story is a good example of the importance of documenting each and every incident with HR. It tends to deter some of the subtle (and not so subtle) retribution that might otherwise come your way. Unfortunately, being a cautionary tale to others really isn't much help :saddowns:

xxEightxx
Mar 5, 2010

Oh, it's true. You are Brock Landers!
Salad Prong
Your managers are idiots. They should have told HR immediately. If you tell HR, the will mount an investigation, and talk to everyone involved. It is a tricky situation at this point, because you are only coming forward after some negative review has come out. What can you point to if everyone starts lying and saying you never told them anything, and the first manager says it never happened? Texts? emails? Anything other than he said-she said battle?

Talking to an attorney can't hurt, just to see what your specific options are.

razz
Dec 26, 2005

Queen of Maceration

Space Gopher posted:

I need some advice on disability issues. It's for a friend (no, really) who goes to a public university in the state of Washington.

She suffers from a peanut allergy that can be triggered by airborne particles and put her into a life-threatening situation. At the beginning of the school year, she worked with the university's disability support services, who acknowledged her as disabled, agreed to notify her professors and classmates to not bring peanut products, and put "peanut free zone" signs on the doors of rooms where she had class. As I understand it, it's not really controversial to acknowledge a food allergy that severe as a disability.

I'm genuinely curious about this. And I really hope none of this sounds disrespectful because it's not my intention, I know nothing about disability laws and I'm not knocking on your friend, just asking questions.

How can an entire school (and every room inside that school) be held accountable for the kinds of food that other people bring in? Why is it the obligation of everyone else in the entire building to cater to her disability? I mean, I get it if the disability is something like being in a wheelchair. It's pretty easy to make stuff wheelchair accessible. But how can ANY entity or ANY organization (especially a public institution) be responsible for every single person that enters and be responsible for making sure that none of those people are bringing in certain types of food lest they get sued? That seems crazy to me. What if I just came in the library to check out a book with my peanut butter sandwich in my backpack thinking nothing of it and she happened to be in there? If there's a no peanut sign I really doubt I'd see it unless it was huge and practically blocking me. Or I might not even remember what I had in my backpack even if I did see it. Would I be hosed if she dies?

I mean, is your friend going to make every building she ever works in do the same thing for her? Make sure that no one brings in any kind of peanut butter product? I just can't see any business entity being able to cater to that kind of demand. Yes it sucks for your friend but... really? Doesn't this all seem just a little bit extreme? Is she going to get mad at restaurants that serve stuff with peanuts/peanut butter and make them change their menu so she can go in? If she gets a job at a retail store is she going to make them take every peanut-containing product off the shelf? If she works in an office building are they going to have to implement some office-wide code that no can have any kind of peanuts in the building because of one person who's allergic and might accidentally smell it?

What if she's sitting on the bus and the guy behind her is eating peanut butter crackers, should the bus company have to implement a "no peanut" policy? I see where your friend is coming from, I really do. She just wants a safe place to live her life and do her work. But where does it end?

ibntumart
Mar 18, 2007

Good, bad. I'm the one with the power of Shu, Heru, Amon, Zehuti, Aton, and Mehen.
College Slice

Hyzenth1ay posted:

Should I seek legal advice?

If you are in the United States, you should contact the EEOC. You will fill out an intake form and speak with an investigator about your options. This does not automatically result in filing suit or even an investigation, by the way. This is just a chance for you to learn about your specific rights and options, including what the EEOC can do.

Hyzenth1ay
Oct 24, 2008

ibntumart posted:

If you are in the United States, you should contact the EEOC. You will fill out an intake form and speak with an investigator about your options. This does not automatically result in filing suit or even an investigation, by the way. This is just a chance for you to learn about your specific rights and options, including what the EEOC can do.

I'm in the state of Washington, so I will do this.

Any idea what kind of lawyer - specialization? - I should speak with?

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

Im not seeing a disability under the ADA there at all. She seems to function fine.

Also your friend needs to call lawyers, not you.

xxEightxx
Mar 5, 2010

Oh, it's true. You are Brock Landers!
Salad Prong

euphronius posted:

Im not seeing a disability under the ADA there at all. She seems to function fine.

Also your friend needs to call lawyers, not you.

Sec. 12102. Definition of disability

As used in this chapter:

(1) Disability

The term "disability" means, with respect to an individual

(A) a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one or more major life activities of such individual;

(B) a record of such an impairment; or

(C) being regarded as having such an impairment (as described in paragraph (3)).

(2) Major Life Activities

(A) In general

For purposes of paragraph (1), major life activities include, but are not limited to, caring for oneself, performing manual tasks, seeing, hearing, eating, sleeping, walking, standing, lifting, bending, speaking, breathing, learning, reading, concentrating, thinking, communicating, and working.

Space Gopher
Jul 31, 2006

BLITHERING IDIOT AND HARDCORE DURIAN APOLOGIST. LET ME TELL YOU WHY THIS SHIT DON'T STINK EVEN THOUGH WE ALL KNOW IT DOES BECAUSE I'M SUPER CULTURED.

euphronius posted:

Im not seeing a disability under the ADA there at all. She seems to function fine.

Also your friend needs to call lawyers, not you.

Well, my friend and I are trying to figure out the legal landscape before she gets lawyers involved. Suing a school is a huge hassle she would rather not go through (not to mention all the you'll-never-prove-this passive aggressive retaliation she'd be sure to get) and the ADA only lets you recover legal fees if you win.

As for the "function fine" thing, she can function fine in the absence of peanut protein. If somebody's eating a peanut butter sandwich in the same room, she can't function fine. My understanding is that title II institutions (from elementary schools to public universities) have been required to accommodate plenty of people with severe allergies in the past; is there some regulatory or statutory dividing line I don't know about between the elementary schools featured in breathless media pieces about the "peanut wars" a few years ago and a public university?

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Space Gopher posted:

Well, my friend and I are trying to figure out the legal landscape before she gets lawyers involved. Suing a school is a huge hassle she would rather not go through (not to mention all the you'll-never-prove-this passive aggressive retaliation she'd be sure to get) and the ADA only lets you recover legal fees if you win.
You understand that speaking to an attorney does not mean that you are suing someone, correct? Seems to still be a massive misconception -- an attorney is the one who will tell you the "legal landscape." A half-hour consult for a few bucks will save a lot of grief.

Alaemon
Jan 4, 2009

Proctors are guardians of the sanctity and integrity of legal education, therefore they are responsible for the nourishment of the soul.
I admittedly don't practice in disability law, but given that the standard is "reasonable accommodation" (at least I think it is), putting up "no peanut" signs in a few locations strikes me as a pretty trivial burden.

Despite some of the... vitriol in this thread, it's not asking to create a perfect peanut-free zone. It's asking for some signs to go up to lower the odds of a chance encounter while going about the daily business. And possibly for a section of library to go snack-free if needed.

I REALLY don't understand how putting up "no peanut" signs can create liability where none existed previously. If they heard that from their lawyers, I'd like to read that memo. For my money, the more dangerous scenario is knowing you have a student with a severe allergy and doing nothing about it. The seatbelt analogy used previously was good. The one in my mind is if they had a rickety stairway and they were told they needed to put up a railing for a mobility-limited student. Then they said "no, because that student could slip even with the railing and we'd be on the hook. So we'll just leave the staircase rickety and all will be well."

Having notice of a hazard and deliberately doing nothing about it doesn't limit liability.

Again, this is all me shooting from the hip. I would definitely check about a free consult with a local disability lawyer, but the claim as presented to me doesn't seem at all unreasonable.

(The only reason I can think of a distinction between elementary school and university for this purpose is that elementary school is compulsory. I don't know that it matters at all, but as a hypothesis, I can see having a higher duty of care when handling kids who have no choice but to be there.)

agarjogger
May 16, 2011
I know you all get a lot of roughly-identical, pretty boring "Do I need a lawyer" questions. So with apology, here's one more. If you can't read it all, the tl;dr is does somebody need a lawyer for a public intoxication charge with some irregularities?

After yet another day of highly-unsuccessful jobhunting, my mate got blind drunk on malt liquor on the train home (this is permitted on the commuter train as long as you don't bother anyone). He went to a closed bar, banged on the door, and was shocked and displeased over not being let in to drown himself in more booze. He gives up and goes home, breaks a bunch of jars trying to make himself dinner, and puts on latex gloves in an aborted attempt to clean them all up. Because he's completely out of his mind, he returns to the bar to make obscene gestures at a huge bouncer behind a locked door and trying to get him to come out. It's honestly the drunkest he's ever been in his life. He gives up, tries to leave on his bike, falls over immediately and slices his head open. Two police show up before he gets up, cuff him without drama and sit him down on a bench. Three more cops show up and they're all asking him questions, like why the gently caress he's wearing latex gloves, which he ignores or says that he doesn't know. They're waiting on an ambulance for the kid (24 y/o male with no criminal record). He chides them about sending out six cops to deal with a drunk idiot bicyclist and while most of them laugh, he really pisses off the youngest, shortest-haired of the cops. That one threatens to gently caress up his bicycle as the ambulance doors close. The kid is handed a notice that if he turns up at the bar again, he will be trespassing. And that's it and he is taken to a hospital for the night for a bunch of IV's and CT scans and released in the morning.

The case just turned up on the county website, with one count of violation of village ordinance (DISORDERLY CONDUCT) - PUBLIC INTOXICATION. The ticket says $75, which would seem to indicate a minor violation. Nonetheless the whole thing is worrying. Not a first-time alcohol offender, but the previous offense was expunged b/c juvenile. Afraid of probation, very-expensive alcohol diversion classes, and of a summer month abroad being killed by court dates and community service (which he otherwise doesn't mind because he's a damned good citizen). He's also afraid that the cop who wrote the ticket is the one who has utter contempt for him and will show up to court and recommend the court teach this gently caress a lesson about respect. Jurisdiction is Illinois. Defendant grew up in the town where it happened.

Dude was uncertain that he was under arrest because his rights were never read, but nobody cares what he says since he was trashed. Hire friend's dad, who is an excellent criminal defense attorney, or roll with the court to possibly save $500?

BigHead
Jul 25, 2003
Huh?


Nap Ghost

agarjogger posted:

I know you all get a lot of roughly-identical, pretty boring "Do I need a lawyer" questions. So with apology, here's one more. If you can't read it all, the tl;dr is does somebody need a lawyer for a public intoxication charge with some irregularities?

After yet another day of highly-unsuccessful jobhunting, my mate got blind drunk on malt liquor on the train home (this is permitted on the commuter train as long as you don't bother anyone). He went to a closed bar, banged on the door, and was shocked and displeased over not being let in to drown himself in more booze. He gives up and goes home, breaks a bunch of jars trying to make himself dinner, and puts on latex gloves in an aborted attempt to clean them all up. Because he's completely out of his mind, he returns to the bar to make obscene gestures at a huge bouncer behind a locked door and trying to get him to come out. It's honestly the drunkest he's ever been in his life. He gives up, tries to leave on his bike, falls over immediately and slices his head open. Two police show up before he gets up, cuff him without drama and sit him down on a bench. Three more cops show up and they're all asking him questions, like why the gently caress he's wearing latex gloves, which he ignores or says that he doesn't know. They're waiting on an ambulance for the kid (24 y/o male with no criminal record). He chides them about sending out six cops to deal with a drunk idiot bicyclist and while most of them laugh, he really pisses off the youngest, shortest-haired of the cops. That one threatens to gently caress up his bicycle as the ambulance doors close. The kid is handed a notice that if he turns up at the bar again, he will be trespassing. And that's it and he is taken to a hospital for the night for a bunch of IV's and CT scans and released in the morning.

The case just turned up on the county website, with one count of violation of village ordinance (DISORDERLY CONDUCT) - PUBLIC INTOXICATION. The ticket says $75, which would seem to indicate a minor violation. Nonetheless the whole thing is worrying. Not a first-time alcohol offender, but the previous offense was expunged b/c juvenile. Afraid of probation, very-expensive alcohol diversion classes, and of a summer month abroad being killed by court dates and community service (which he otherwise doesn't mind because he's a damned good citizen). He's also afraid that the cop who wrote the ticket is the one who has utter contempt for him and will show up to court and recommend the court teach this gently caress a lesson about respect. Jurisdiction is Illinois. Defendant grew up in the town where it happened.

Dude was uncertain that he was under arrest because his rights were never read, but nobody cares what he says since he was trashed. Hire friend's dad, who is an excellent criminal defense attorney, or roll with the court to possibly save $500?

"Your friend" should buy an hours worth of that defense attorney's time for some reasonable fee. It's always helpful to have a buddy's dad as an attorney.

That being said, a disorderly conduct charge is not the end of the universe. But, "your friend" may want to seriously reevaluate the role alcohol plays in your life. Once you start drinking such that cops get involved, you ought to not drink any more.

ibntumart
Mar 18, 2007

Good, bad. I'm the one with the power of Shu, Heru, Amon, Zehuti, Aton, and Mehen.
College Slice

Hyzenth1ay posted:

I'm in the state of Washington, so I will do this.

Any idea what kind of lawyer - specialization? - I should speak with?

This would fall under the purview of an employment law attorney, specifically one who handles employment discrimination. Something to keep in mind is that the EEOC doesn't cost anything: from initial intake through litigation, assuming the EEOC takes the case, you won't have to pay the agency anything.

Moreover, you would have to speak with the EEOC anyway if you *do* decide to sue since you will need them to issue you either a Dismissal and Notice of Rights letter or a Right to Sue letter. The former is if the EEOC doesn't decide to pursue an investigation and the latter is if they believe illegal discrimination occurred, but aren't going to sue on your behalf, or if the investigation goes on for more than 180 days and you specifically request the Right to Sue letter.

Please also consider contacting the Washington State Human Rights Commission. Sometimes state laws offer better protection than federal laws and anyway, if you decide to pursue litigation, you can sue for both federal and state violations. Plus the EEOC is underfunded and I know from experience that the attorneys have a lot on their plates, so you might wind up having better luck with the Washington HRC.

Sir John Falstaff
Apr 13, 2010

Alaemon posted:

I admittedly don't practice in disability law, but given that the standard is "reasonable accommodation" (at least I think it is), putting up "no peanut" signs in a few locations strikes me as a pretty trivial burden.

Despite some of the... vitriol in this thread, it's not asking to create a perfect peanut-free zone. It's asking for some signs to go up to lower the odds of a chance encounter while going about the daily business. And possibly for a section of library to go snack-free if needed.

I REALLY don't understand how putting up "no peanut" signs can create liability where none existed previously. If they heard that from their lawyers, I'd like to read that memo. For my money, the more dangerous scenario is knowing you have a student with a severe allergy and doing nothing about it. The seatbelt analogy used previously was good. The one in my mind is if they had a rickety stairway and they were told they needed to put up a railing for a mobility-limited student. Then they said "no, because that student could slip even with the railing and we'd be on the hook. So we'll just leave the staircase rickety and all will be well."

Having notice of a hazard and deliberately doing nothing about it doesn't limit liability.

Again, this is all me shooting from the hip. I would definitely check about a free consult with a local disability lawyer, but the claim as presented to me doesn't seem at all unreasonable.

(The only reason I can think of a distinction between elementary school and university for this purpose is that elementary school is compulsory. I don't know that it matters at all, but as a hypothesis, I can see having a higher duty of care when handling kids who have no choice but to be there.)

True, but from the school's perspective, no one puts up signs unless they expect people to obey them. They may see it as simply unreasonable to expect them to quarantine an area of a library that is open to the public (I'm assuming it is, but I suppose that could be wrong) because one student has a disability. They may see putting up signs as an admission that they can do it, when in fact they do not have the staff to monitor whether anyone entering that area of the library has a Snickers bar or not.

I mean, seems to me the first thing an attorney representing someone who suffered an allergic reaction to peanuts in a library that had that kind of signs would argue is, "You led my client to believe this would be a safe area, but in fact you did nothing to ensure it actually was safe." They may see it as simpler just to say, "We're like every other public space you have to go that isn't allergy-safe, whether that's the grocery store, the bus, the bank, the post office, etc., none of which are required to protect against peanut allergies." They may not want to be seen as admitting that they have a responsibility that those other places do not. Just a thought, though--I don't really have any experience in the area.

And yes, contact a lawyer--I'm also at best shooting from the hip.

Sir John Falstaff fucked around with this message at 11:42 on Apr 28, 2013

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

xxEightxx posted:

Sec. 12102. Definition of disability

As used in this chapter:

(1) Disability

The term "disability" means, with respect to an individual

(A) a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one or more major life activities of such individual;

(B) a record of such an impairment; or

(C) being regarded as having such an impairment (as described in paragraph (3)).

(2) Major Life Activities

(A) In general

For purposes of paragraph (1), major life activities include, but are not limited to, caring for oneself, performing manual tasks, seeing, hearing, eating, sleeping, walking, standing, lifting, bending, speaking, breathing, learning, reading, concentrating, thinking, communicating, and working.

I know the definition. It doesn't meet that as far as I can tell. She isn't substantially limited in her life activities. On Monday I'll look up allegy case law I guess, but latent allergies do not seem to fit at all.

Even if she were disabled, there are types of reasonability stanadards that the school can rely on to deny accommodation. The law isn't going to force the school to ban peanuts or create a school wide peanut free zone or whatever. Even though they appeard to have done that at least partially.

Also this isn't an employment claim at all since she is not employed by the school as far as I can tell. Good luck getting a "free consult" but she is going to most likely pay a lawyer up front to do anything since there is no award here to make a contingent fee agreement possible.

Contacting the EEOC or state equivalent will most likely go nowhere.

euphronius fucked around with this message at 12:29 on Apr 28, 2013

Alaemon
Jan 4, 2009

Proctors are guardians of the sanctity and integrity of legal education, therefore they are responsible for the nourishment of the soul.
Very fast Googling suggests that the 2008 ADA Amendments Act expanded the definition of "substantial limitation." Many of the pages seem to contemplate allergies specifically (of course, that's what I'm searching for, so a little bit of result bias there).

Edit: And it looks like there was a settlement between Lesley University for the university's failure to make accommodations for students with food allergies.

http://www.ada.gov/lesley_university_sa.htm

Alaemon fucked around with this message at 15:52 on Apr 28, 2013

General Panic
Jan 28, 2012
AN ERORIST AGENT

agarjogger posted:

Dude was uncertain that he was under arrest because his rights were never read, but nobody cares what he says since he was trashed. Hire friend's dad, who is an excellent criminal defense attorney, or roll with the court to possibly save $500?
It's probably worth at least speaking to friend's dad, who if he's lucky may be prepared to give some quick advice for free (or at a discount). But don't expect miracles because, technicalities about the arrest aside, the guy was disorderly and drunk in public and the court is unlikely to put a lot of weight on the memory of a drunk guy.

The young cop probably arrests people in similar circumstances on a regular basis, and it's unlikely he'll decide to pursue some kind of vendetta against this particular drunk.

Space Gopher
Jul 31, 2006

BLITHERING IDIOT AND HARDCORE DURIAN APOLOGIST. LET ME TELL YOU WHY THIS SHIT DON'T STINK EVEN THOUGH WE ALL KNOW IT DOES BECAUSE I'M SUPER CULTURED.

nm posted:

You understand that speaking to an attorney does not mean that you are suing someone, correct? Seems to still be a massive misconception -- an attorney is the one who will tell you the "legal landscape." A half-hour consult for a few bucks will save a lot of grief.

Do you have any recommendations on how to find someone? I know that came up earlier in the thread, but it was more about criminal law. Hitting google seems to bring up a ton of people who work in employment disability/worker's comp, and even the ADA folks are interested in employment stuff. Should she just call one of those firms and when they say "sorry, that's not exactly what we do" ask them about who does do that kind of work in the area?

euphronius posted:

I know the definition. It doesn't meet that as far as I can tell. She isn't substantially limited in her life activities. On Monday I'll look up allegy case law I guess, but latent allergies do not seem to fit at all.

Even if she were disabled, there are types of reasonability stanadards that the school can rely on to deny accommodation. The law isn't going to force the school to ban peanuts or create a school wide peanut free zone or whatever. Even though they appeard to have done that at least partially.

Also this isn't an employment claim at all since she is not employed by the school as far as I can tell. Good luck getting a "free consult" but she is going to most likely pay a lawyer up front to do anything since there is no award here to make a contingent fee agreement possible.

Contacting the EEOC or state equivalent will most likely go nowhere.

The EEOC/employment law stuff is somebody else's issue.

As for the award that might make a contingent fee possible, am I reading this wrong?

42 USC §12132 posted:

Subject to the provisions of this subchapter, no qualified individual with a disability shall, by reason of such disability, be excluded from participation in or be denied the benefits of the services, programs, or activities of a public entity, or be subjected to discrimination by any such entity.

42 USC §12133 posted:

The remedies, procedures, and rights set forth in section 794a of title 29 shall be the remedies, procedures, and rights this subchapter provides to any person alleging discrimination on the basis of disability in violation of section 12132 of this title.

29 USC §794a posted:

[...]
(b) In any action or proceeding to enforce or charge a violation of a provision of this subchapter, the court, in its discretion, may allow the prevailing party, other than the United States, a reasonable attorney’s fee as part of the costs.

I had thought that the bigger concern would be that, if the case looks strong, an attorney would strongly advise going forward with a lawsuit. After all, it looks on its face like a win-win: the attorney gets a close-to-guaranteed payday, my friend gets her accommodations, and there are legal protections against retaliation. In practice, she is really worried that any legal action against the school (or even communication on her behalf from an attorney) would end up screwing her whenever she has to deal with the school bureaucracy, which is basically built on the "strict regulations, but make exceptions easily" model. Shutting her out of policy exceptions for stuff like class registration would make life a lot harder, but it'd be effectively impossible to prove that it's retaliation.

With that said, she's still going to try to contact an attorney, most likely.

Space Gopher fucked around with this message at 16:20 on Apr 28, 2013

Never you mind
Jun 5, 2010

Alaemon posted:

Very fast Googling suggests that the 2008 ADA Amendments Act expanded the definition of "substantial limitation." Many of the pages seem to contemplate allergies specifically (of course, that's what I'm searching for, so a little bit of result bias there).

Edit: And it looks like there was a settlement between Lesley University for the university's failure to make accommodations for students with food allergies.

http://www.ada.gov/lesley_university_sa.htm

The Lesley settlement is a bit different. It's to provide students with allergies the possibility of an exemption from the otherwise-mandatory meal plan, and to force the school to make some allergen-free meal choices available. A university enforcing peanut-free zones is much more significant accommodation; they could easily argue that this is neither reasonable nor reasonably enforceable. How can the university meaningfully enforce this ban from specific areas that are otherwise open to the public? They never should have put signs up in the first place, because they can't guarantee the safety of the allergic student if they can't keep people from bringing in food or forgetting to wash their hands.

I would be very curious as to what the student with the life-threatening allergy expects the school to reasonably do for her that would give her grounds for suit. This is not about adding a ramp or making doors wide enough for a wheelchair, or not being forced to pay for meals you can't eat, or taking a test in a testing center instead of in the classroom. In a world not full of lawsuits, the school could ask its students and the public to avoid bringing in peanuts. Since they can't guarantee that people will comply, how can they make any implication to the student that they will assume responsibility for her exposure to peanuts?

Sir John Falstaff
Apr 13, 2010

Never you mind posted:

The Lesley settlement is a bit different. It's to provide students with allergies the possibility of an exemption from the otherwise-mandatory meal plan, and to force the school to make some allergen-free meal choices available. A university enforcing peanut-free zones is much more significant accommodation; they could easily argue that this is neither reasonable nor reasonably enforceable. How can the university meaningfully enforce this ban from specific areas that are otherwise open to the public? They never should have put signs up in the first place, because they can't guarantee the safety of the allergic student if they can't keep people from bringing in food or forgetting to wash their hands.

I would be very curious as to what the student with the life-threatening allergy expects the school to reasonably do for her that would give her grounds for suit. This is not about adding a ramp or making doors wide enough for a wheelchair, or not being forced to pay for meals you can't eat, or taking a test in a testing center instead of in the classroom. In a world not full of lawsuits, the school could ask its students and the public to avoid bringing in peanuts. Since they can't guarantee that people will comply, how can they make any implication to the student that they will assume responsibility for her exposure to peanuts?

Yes, plus it sounds like they arguably have already given a reasonable accommodation. She apparently wanted peanut-free zones in the library "because the library was basically the only place on campus outside of designated peanut-free classrooms where she could study." But "designated peanut-free classrooms" sounds a lot like a "reasonable accommodation" to me. (There is apparently some concern about access to certain tutoring/computing resources which may be more of an issue, but may also not require creating designated peanut-free zones in a library open to the public.)

Space Gopher
Jul 31, 2006

BLITHERING IDIOT AND HARDCORE DURIAN APOLOGIST. LET ME TELL YOU WHY THIS SHIT DON'T STINK EVEN THOUGH WE ALL KNOW IT DOES BECAUSE I'M SUPER CULTURED.

Sir John Falstaff posted:

Yes, plus it sounds like they arguably have already given a reasonable accommodation. She apparently wanted peanut-free zones in the library "because the library was basically the only place on campus outside of designated peanut-free classrooms where she could study." But "designated peanut-free classrooms" sounds a lot like a "reasonable accommodation" to me. (There is apparently some concern about access to certain tutoring/computing resources which may be more of an issue, but may also not require creating designated peanut-free zones in a library open to the public.)

Well, at this point they've taken away the peanut-free classrooms; there are no accommodations for her any more. And she can't always stay in the peanut-free rooms, because there are other classes that use them when she's between classes.

Sir John Falstaff
Apr 13, 2010

Space Gopher posted:

Well, at this point they've taken away the peanut-free classrooms; there are no accommodations for her any more. And she can't always stay in the peanut-free rooms, because there are other classes that use them when she's between classes.

Ah, I thought you meant they had only taken them down in relation to the library, not the classrooms as well. That actually changes my view of the situation somewhat.

xxEightxx
Mar 5, 2010

Oh, it's true. You are Brock Landers!
Salad Prong

Space Gopher posted:

Well, at this point they've taken away the peanut-free classrooms; there are no accommodations for her any more. And she can't always stay in the peanut-free rooms, because there are other classes that use them when she's between classes.

The test will be whatever the university can argue is reasonable under all the circumstances. They could in theory provide nothing if the burden to provide anything is too high. I don't see that as a sustainable course of action (we don't have a lot of detail on how severe the peanut allergy here is), but it should be kept in mind that the friend shouldn't expect x,y, or z action.

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Vanessie
Apr 29, 2004

at the risk of possibly sounding like rule #5, Im going to continue to put my situation out there.

I work at a Dog Daycare/Boarding Facility, the owner owns a very vicious dog named Jack who lives at the kennel 99% percent of the time. During the first week of March, at around 7:30pm my manager tells me to go feed Jack. I take his bowl of dog food to his run, open his kennel and I wind up getting my leg and hand mauled. The other managers on duty start to panic, and start telling me that i am going to have to lie. They immediately start blowing up the owner's phone to try and reach her so that the owner knows what happened. Turns out Jack will be put down if I tell the emergency clinic that Jack bit me. I am bleeding and my hand is the size of a baseball and I am getting dizzy, but I have to wait for the managers to talk to the owners first. They wont take me to the clinic until I agree to lie about who bit me. I am cornered into agreeing to accept 200 dollars to lie and they immediately change us out of our uniforms and a coworker takes me to the clinic. My dog daycare refuses to leave a papertrail so the pay what they can in cash, since they can in no way be tied to the clinic. My hand stays pretty bruised and busted for a month and they gave me 2 sick days on top of the 200.

I have a time chart from my job that lines up with clinic paperwork that says I was clocked into my job while I was admitted to the ER. I also wound up paying on my own credit card that night.

I signed nothing, everything was verbal between me and my employer.

The dog continues to be handled by unauthorized new people and still lives at the daycare the same way he was when I got bit. Hell, he just bit someone else yesterday.

This feels like a workers comp case, but its past the 30 day period...plus its not like I was taken out of commission for like months or anything crazy like that. No debilitating injuries, just 8 new scars. But the entire thing feels...wrong. Like I am working in a dangerous place and I was coerced into helping my boss break the law by having medical attention withheld from me. I really dont know what kind of help to look up on this one.... any body have any advice?

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