Straight Marriage Is Illegal Now

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Straight Marriage Is Illegal Now

evilweasel: Aug 24, 2002

Sweeney Tom posted:

A U.S. Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals judge on Wednesday ruled that Oregon's ban on gay marriage violates the U.S. Constitution. Marriage equality advocates in Oregon are eyeing a 2014 referendum to repeal the amendment.

Do you have a link to the decision?

# ? Apr 26, 2013 17:23

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# ? Jun 7, 2024 05:54

Grundulum: Feb 28, 2006

Could I have a quick civics lesson, please? If a judge says a ban is unconstitutional, why does there need to be a referendum to repeal it? Doesn't it become immediately unenforceable (pending further appeals, of course)?

# ? Apr 26, 2013 17:43

MaxxBot: Oct 6, 2003; you could have clapped

you should have clapped!!

Grundulum posted:

Could I have a quick civics lesson, please? If a judge says a ban is unconstitutional, why does there need to be a referendum to repeal it? Doesn't it become immediately unenforceable (pending further appeals, of course)?

The courts are slow as gently caress so the choice would be either to go for the repeal (in which case the pending court case would just be invalidated if it works) or sit tight and wait for the appeals process to play out and hope that the ruling is upheld.

# ? Apr 26, 2013 17:44

Nostalgia4Infinity: Feb 27, 2007; 10,000 YEARS WASN'T ENOUGH LURKING

You answered your question, it is all but certain to be appealed.

# ? Apr 26, 2013 17:45

Chris James 2: Aug 9, 2012

San Antonio Mayor Julian Castro and former deputy US Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz co-wrote an editorial in the Houston Chronicle calling for marriage equality and an end to DOMA.

quote:

We stand together, the Democratic mayor of San Antonio and a senior appointee in three Republican presidential administrations, united in our support for the freedom to marry and an end to the discrimination caused by the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) which treats one legally married couple differently from another.

On the surface, we might seem an odd mix: One of us leads a city in what has been a predictably red state; the other hopes to see the Republican Party and the nation focus on the critical issues that will determine the future strength and prosperity of this great country. One of us sits on the edge of the millennial generation as the youngest mayor of a top 50 U.S. city; the other, a former head of the World Bank, senior Bush administration official and ambassador to Indonesia.

To us, this simply speaks to the growing bipartisan support for same-sex marriage. We already know 62 percent of independents are behind the freedom to marry, according to a recent ABC/Washington Post poll. And the support from young Americans couldn't be more dramatic, with 81 percent, regardless of political affiliation, in favor of the freedom to marry.

Even more remarkable is the speed with which attitudes on this issue have changed as Americans have had a chance to reflect on it. To us, this burgeoning support isn't surprising because it reflects the fundamental American values of civil equality, personal freedom and liberty. It also reflects a common-sense recognition that when people choose to take on not only the joys of marriage, but the responsibilities and obligations, that decision should be supported and applauded.

We know those principles will guide the conversations among the Young Republicans who gather in San Antonio this weekend for their quarterly conference.

It's not much different for those of us leading America's great cities. Not only have more than 350 mayors from 35 states signed on as Mayors for the Freedom to Marry, the United Conference of Mayors signed on to the U.S. Supreme Court challenge to DOMA. To us, the diversity of our cities, large and small, is our greatest resource. Asking the federal government to treat all loving couples equally will strengthen our families and communities. It's really that simple and that profound.

Conservatives have long recognized that forcing people to hide their identity is not only unfair and hurtful, but causes many harmful social consequences. Now conservatives are increasingly recognizing that enabling individuals to enter into marriage is both fair and just, strengthening families, neighborhoods and society at large.

We are heartened by the growing political backing from both sides of the aisle. Republican Sens. Rob Portman of Ohio and Mark Kirk of Illinois have announced their support and dozens of prominent Republicans signed an amicus brief with the Supreme Court backing the freedom to marry. Democratic senators have also stepped forward, with 52 now in favor of same-sex marriage.

As the Young Republicans converge in San Antonio to discuss so many important issues facing our country today, they have an opportunity to lead the way toward civil equality under the law. Marriage is not the province of any one party or any one ideology. It is the dream of all parents for their children and the foundation of family life. The issue of marriage equality should not divide our country. It's time to put this issue behind us.

# ? Apr 26, 2013 17:46

Chris James 2: Aug 9, 2012

evilweasel posted:

Do you have a link to the decision?

This is a pretty detailed link. The case itself wasn't about marriage equality in Oregon though, the case was about a lawyer denied health care benefits because of her partner.

# ? Apr 26, 2013 17:50

Zoran: Aug 19, 2008; I lost to you once, monster. I shall not lose again! Die now, that our future can live!

In particular, it wasn't a ruling by the Ninth Circuit�it was a ruling of one of its judges in his capacity as chair of the Federal Public Defenders Standing Committee.

# ? Apr 26, 2013 18:42

Leon Trotsky 2012: Aug 27, 2009; YOU CAN TRUST ME!*

_{*Israeli Government-affiliated poster}

In Delaware it might come down to one vote in the Senate. One of the undecided Dems has come out in favor of the bill, but Democratic State Senator Hall Long, who represents the college town of Newark and parts of northern Delaware with a large gay population, is going to vote against the bill despite the fact that she represents one of the most gay friendly districts in Delaware. Her reason? Because her Dad is a Tea Party activist from Southern Delaware who told her that he would disown her if she voted for the bill. So she has stated that she will oppose it despite the fact that she represents the youngest and one of the most pro-gay districts in Delaware.

Edit: For the record, that means the vote looks like it will be 11-10 in favor of gay marriage as long as every pro-gay marriage vote stays.

Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 19:41 on Apr 26, 2013

# ? Apr 26, 2013 19:35

Chris James 2: Aug 9, 2012

New poll in Minnesota shows 51% support of marriage equality in the state (question 19T)

# ? Apr 26, 2013 19:43

ColdPie: Jun 9, 2006

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

In Delaware it might come down to one vote in the Senate. One of the undecided Dems has come out in favor of the bill, but Democratic State Senator Hall Long, who represents the college town of Newark and parts of northern Delaware with a large gay population, is going to vote against the bill despite the fact that she represents one of the most gay friendly districts in Delaware. Her reason? Because her Dad is a Tea Party activist from Southern Delaware who told her that he would disown her if she voted for the bill. So she has stated that she will oppose it despite the fact that she represents the youngest and one of the most pro-gay districts in Delaware.

Edit: For the record, that means the vote looks like it will be 11-10 in favor of gay marriage as long as every pro-gay marriage vote stays.

Wouldn't it be more appropriate to step down if you can't represent your citizens due to family drama?

# ? Apr 26, 2013 19:53

Wheresmy5bucks: Feb 10, 2007; So, where is it?

ColdPie posted:

Wouldn't it be more appropriate to step down if you can't represent your citizens due to family drama?

I don't know about Delaware politics but goddamn if that isn't something that SHOULD get you primaried, especially if she ends up being the one costing the state gay marriage.

"Senator Hall Long won't stand up to her bigoted father." would end up being a legitimate, well founded attack ad. :psyduck:

# ? Apr 26, 2013 21:17

A GIANT PARSNIP: Apr 13, 2010; Too much fuckin' eggnog

Can't she at least have the decency to abstain?

Does anyone know how the Delaware Senate deals with ties?

# ? Apr 26, 2013 21:20

Nybble: Jun 28, 2008; praise chuck, raise heck

quote:

Her reason? Because her Dad is a Tea Party activist from Southern Delaware who told her that he would disown her if she voted for the bill.

Someone needs to tell her this isn't the SGA of your private school college anymore.

# ? Apr 26, 2013 21:22

Chris James 2: Aug 9, 2012

It's not that she's afraid to stand up to her bigoted dad. It's that she's afraid to stand up to her bigoted, rich dad, who might financially cut her off if she does.

# ? Apr 26, 2013 21:29

Rhesus Pieces: Jun 27, 2005

Wheresmy5bucks posted:

I don't know about Delaware politics but goddamn if that isn't something that SHOULD get you primaried, especially if she ends up being the one costing the state gay marriage.

"Senator Hall Long won't stand up to her bigoted father." would end up being a legitimate, well founded attack ad.

For what it's worth, here's the Delaware State Senate oath of office, with the relevant parts bolded:

quote:

"I, _________________.do proudly swear (or affirm) to carry out the responsibilities of the office of _______________ to the best of my ability, freely acknowledging that the powers of this office flow from the people I am privileged to represent. I further swear (or affirm) always to place the public interest above any special or personal interests, and to respect the right of future generations to share the rich historic and natural heritage of Delaware. In doing so I will always uphold and defend the Constitutions of my Country and my State, so help me God."

Knowlingly voting contrary to her constituency due to personal conflicts pretty explicitly violates her oath of office, though that isn't an impeachable offense.

# ? Apr 26, 2013 21:37

Nintendo Kid: Aug 4, 2011; by Smythe

Delaware state legislators still make $42,000 a year plus per diem expenses. And she isn't up for re-election until 2016. Being cut off wouldn't exactly be the worst thing with conditions like that, and would likely secure re-election in 2016 at that.

It's not like other states where legislators get paid token amounts like $4000 a year, it's a real salary.

# ? Apr 26, 2013 21:39

Lycus: Aug 5, 2008; Half the posters in this forum have been made up. This website is a goddamn ghost town.

I figured we're talking about her being cut out of the will, so she won't have her windfall after the bigot croaks. Anyway, yeah, she's a selfish coward.

# ? Apr 26, 2013 22:17

fade5: May 31, 2012; by exmarx

Sweeney Tom posted:

San Antonio Mayor Julian Castro and former deputy US Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz co-wrote an editorial in the Houston Chronicle calling for marriage equality and an end to DOMA.

The major of San Antonio (who I voted for :c00l:

) and a former Bush Secretary of Defense agreeing on gay marriage. We're seriously going to get national gay marriage before the decade's out. :stare:

Sweeney Tom posted:

The Senate Executive Committee will be voting May 1st, and the full Senate should be shortly after. It looks like it's going to be close:

Man, it's weird seeing both parties being split on for and against. gently caress Long, by the way. I never thought I'd unironically quote Cartman, but "You need to stop being such a chickenshit and stand up to your father!"

# ? Apr 26, 2013 22:26

UltimoDragonQuest: Oct 5, 2011

^^^Retired GOP elites do not reflect the party's legislators and certainly not their base.

A GIANT PARSNIP posted:

Can't she at least have the decency to abstain?

Does anyone know how the Delaware Senate deals with ties?

Lt. Gov is the tiebreaker.He's a Democrat and would probably vote yes.

A "civil unions for everyone" bill was introduced in Minnesota. It may screw a bunch of people out of spousal benefits and is obviously DOA.

A civil union bill was introduced in Pennsylvania. Probably won't go anywhere, but it's worth a shot. GOP control means marriage isn't happening anytime soon.

# ? Apr 26, 2013 22:48

Mr Ice Cream Glove: Apr 22, 2007

OOPS

quote:

One of the strongest opponents to equal marriage in France has admitted to �accidentally� voting for the bill.

Henri Guaino, from opposition party UMP, voted for the bill on Tuesday in the final vote on the �Marriage for All� bill.

�There were three buttons flashing, and yes, I pressed the wrong button! I went to the services of the Assembly to correct my vote.�

Guaino was not alone in making the mistake, as other anti-gay politicians Luc Chatel, the former Education Minister, Alain Christian and Marianne Dubois also voted for the bill. No pro-gay MPs made a mistake in the final vote.

I wish this happened in the US

# ? Apr 27, 2013 02:07

Alec Bald Snatch: Sep 12, 2012; by exmarx

Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:

OOPS

I wish this happened in the US

It does, but not for good things.

# ? Apr 27, 2013 03:15

Kegluneq: Feb 18, 2011; Mr President, the physical reality of Prime Minister Corbyn is beyond your range of apprehension. If you'll just put on these PINKOVISION glasses...

watt par posted:

It does, but not for good things.

Also worth noting that Guaino was able to change his vote later. The fracking vote was rather tragic.

# ? Apr 27, 2013 08:17

Kassad: Nov 12, 2005; It's about time.

Not quite, it's not actually possible to change your vote after the event. All the officials did was add a note at the end of the voting record stating that he wanted to vote against the bill. He's still counted among those who voted for the bill, as you can see on the official website.

I hope people never stop mocking him for that one.

# ? Apr 27, 2013 08:59

Fuck You And Diebold: Sep 15, 2004; by Athanatos

Got polled by NOM on gay marriage in Minnesota earlier today. Asked if marriage should be between a man and a woman only, if I was male, and if I was over 50.

# ? Apr 27, 2013 09:05

Kegluneq: Feb 18, 2011; Mr President, the physical reality of Prime Minister Corbyn is beyond your range of apprehension. If you'll just put on these PINKOVISION glasses...

Kassad posted:

Not quite, it's not actually possible to change your vote after the event. All the officials did was add a note at the end of the voting record stating that he wanted to vote against the bill. He's still counted among those who voted for the bill, as you can see on the official website.

I hope people never stop mocking him for that one.

Ah, okay. My original source for that was a Guardian CiF article which falsely reported he had been able to change his vote. That reverts to being completely hilarious then.

# ? Apr 27, 2013 09:08

DynamicSloth: Jul 30, 2006; "Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."

gently caress You And Diebold posted:

Got polled by NOM on gay marriage in Minnesota earlier today. Asked if marriage should be between a man and a woman only, if I was male, and if I was over 50.

Hope you lied to them if they actually identified as NOM, no point in giving bigots accurate data.

# ? Apr 27, 2013 17:40

VirtualStranger: Aug 20, 2012

quote:

http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2013/04/26/1928481/where-marriage-equality-now-stands-in-delaware/

Next Wednesday, the Delaware Senate�s Executive Committee will consider HB 75, the same-sex marriage equality bill that passed the House of Representatives on Tuesday. Should it clear committee � which ThinkProgress has confirmed it likely will � the leadership would then be free to bring up the bill at any time they believed they had sufficient votes to pass it.

Seven of the Senate�s 21 members are official sponsors or co-sponsors of the measure. They include Senate President Pro Tempore Patricia Belvins, Majority Whip Margaret Rose Henry, and Senators Harris McDowell III, Karen Peterson, Nicole Poore, and Bryan Townend � all Democrats. Senate Majority Leader David McBride (D) told ThinkProgress today that he will also vote YES on the bill and Sen. Brian Bushweller (D) pledged his support earlier this week.

Of the four other Senate Democrats, two conservatives voted against the state�s civil union�s law in 2011 and have vocally opposed same-sex marriage: Sens. Bruce Ennis and Robert Venables. Sen. Robert Marshall and Sen. Bethany Hall-Long have not yet made their positions clear.

Of the Senate�s eight Republicans, Sen. Catherine Cloutier is considered by observers the most likely to back the bill. Sen. Ernesto Lopez is also considered to be a possibility.

The six-person executive committee includes supporters Blevins, Henry, McBride, and McDowell. This means the bill will pass 4-2, regardless of the votes of Republican Minority Leader F. Gary Simpson and Minority Whip Gregory Lavelle.

In the full Senate, the bill would require 11 votes (2 more than currently pledged) should all Senators be present. In the event of a tie, marriage equality supporter Matt Denn (D), the state�s Lt. Gov., could cast the deciding vote. Gov. Jack Markell has promised to sign the bill should it reach his desk.

quote:

http://www.delawareliberal.net/2013/04/26/mcbride-is-confirmed-as-a-yes/

Senator Dave McBride confirmed to ThinkProgress today that he will vote yes on HB 75, the Marriage Equality bill. Our sources in the General Assembly had already had McBride as a yes vote on the bill, but this is good news that he is confirming it to the media, as it takes away any uncertainty concerning his vote. With Senator Bushweller confirming yesterday that he is a yes, that leaves the whip count at 10-9 in favor, with 2 Senators having not publicly stated how they will vote: Democratic Senator Bethany Hall Long and Republican Senator Cathy Cloutier. And ironically, the information we have on how each might vote goes against your typical partisan breakdown, with Hall Long leaning no and Cloutier leaning yes.

However, I have been told by a source close to the situation that Senator Hall Long is not in the no column. She is not in the yes column either. And right now she is being very negatively lobbied by the anti-equality, pro-bigotry side (no doubt supported by the Glasgow area Church with that Westboro sign in lights on 896), and it seems to be pushing her in the opposite direction. I am told she has gotten many hundreds of positive calls from constituents on the pro-equality side, so we need to keep up that positive lobbying.

That goes ditto for Senator Cloutier too. The positive pressure on her needs to be continued. I am told she is leaning our way, and voting for marriage equality seems to be a no-brainer given the political and electoral considerations in her district. She has been very good this session living up to the moderate image she presents in her campaigns of her record. She needs to keep it up, because this vote is an important one.

...

# ? Apr 28, 2013 00:34

Fuck You And Diebold: Sep 15, 2004; by Athanatos

DynamicSloth posted:

Hope you lied to them if they actually identified as NOM, no point in giving bigots accurate data.

They did and right after I hung up I kicked myself for not saying I was over 50, oh well.

# ? Apr 28, 2013 18:40

Nostalgia4Infinity: Feb 27, 2007; 10,000 YEARS WASN'T ENOUGH LURKING

gently caress You And Diebold posted:

They did and right after I hung up I kicked myself for not saying I was over 50, oh well.

Don't worry they're going to massage the data to reflect favorably on their point of view. Probably throw out anyone over 50 in favor of SSM.

It's what I'd do if I wanted to skew that poll.

# ? Apr 29, 2013 14:46

Mr Ice Cream Glove: Apr 22, 2007

This is a big one

quote:

NBA center Jason Collins, a 34-year old journeyman, came out as gay in an op-ed in Sports Illustrated on Monday, becoming the first athlete in any of the major American leagues to do so while still an active player.

"I didn't set out to be the first openly gay athlete playing in a major American team sport," Collins wrote. "But since I am, I'm happy to start the conversation."

Collins was never a star in the league, but played an important part in several elite New Jersey Nets squads in the early 2000s, including a starting role on the 2002-2003 team that went to the NBA Finals.

Previously, NBA player John Amaechi came out in 2007 and wrote a book about his experience, but only after he had retired from the league.

Collins mentions that he was inspired to go public with his sexuality in part due to his friendship with Rep. Joe Kennedy (D-MA):

I realized I needed to go public when Joe Kennedy, my old roommate at Stanford and now a Massachusetts congressman, told me he had just marched in Boston's 2012 Gay Pride Parade. I'm seldom jealous of others, but hearing what Joe had done filled me with envy. I was proud of him for participating but angry that as a closeted gay man I couldn't even cheer my straight friend on as a spectator. If I'd been questioned, I would have concocted half truths. What a shame to have to lie at a celebration of pride. I want to do the right thing and not hide anymore. I want to march for tolerance, acceptance and understanding. I want to take a stand and say, "Me, too."

I am not a sports watcher but this is a big step and hopefully will encourage more athletes to come out. I know NFL has a few players planning to come out as well.

# ? Apr 29, 2013 16:32

Chris James 2: Aug 9, 2012

The SI cover isn't bad, aside from the bad wordage of "The Gay Athlete"

I hope Collins finds a good team in the offseason, he deserves it.

# ? Apr 29, 2013 16:36

Chris James 2: Aug 9, 2012

The federal government plans to start counting income from both parents in a same-sex couple when making federal student aid decisions beginning in 2014, the Department of Education announced Monday.

# ? Apr 29, 2013 20:20

eSports Chaebol: Feb 22, 2005; Yeah, actually, gamers in the house forever,

Sweeney Tom posted:

The federal government plans to start counting income from both parents in a same-sex couple when making federal student aid decisions beginning in 2014, the Department of Education announced Monday.

I'm not really sure this counts as good news, getting a penalty of marriage at the Federal level without a benefit.

# ? Apr 29, 2013 20:39

Spiffster: Oct 7, 2009; I'm good... I Haven't slept for a solid 83 hours, but yeah... I'm good...; Lipstick Apathy

eSports Chaebol posted:

I'm not really sure this counts as good news, getting a penalty of marriage at the Federal level without a benefit.

Could be a nice set up though for if DOMA gets repealed, and shows a change in mindset in certain federal programs. Not exactly the best of news at the moment, but I feel a bit optimistic if I'm reading it right.

Of course I could be missing something... Let me know if I am

# ? Apr 29, 2013 20:44

greatn: Nov 15, 2006; by Lowtax

Well if you have a two patent household with only one income, isn't the upper threshold for aid higher?

Obviously I don't know the numbers, but say a gay couple earns 50,000 from one income. 50,000 with one income and one dependent is too much for federal aid, because the government pretends the partner didn't even exist.

Take the same couple though where you count both their incomes, one of which is zero. A two income household only getting 50,000 may be eligible for the financial aid

# ? Apr 29, 2013 20:51

UltimoDragonQuest: Oct 5, 2011

I'm sad this happened before somebody named the equivalent of anchor and terror babies for getting more federal aid.

Delaware Senate committee vote is Wednesday.
Marriage has 51%-47% support in a Minnesota poll.
Illinois is still a few votes short. Just buy them off already. This was not a problem in New York!

UltimoDragonQuest fucked around with this message at 00:38 on Apr 30, 2013

# ? Apr 29, 2013 21:50

woke wedding drone: Jun 1, 2003; by exmarx; Fun Shoe

Sweeney Tom posted:

The SI cover isn't bad, aside from the bad wordage of "The Gay Athlete"

I think they meant it in the sense of "the phenomenon of the gay athlete" not "there's one gay athlete." Interestingly in his article Collins mentions that he will be discreet and respectful, implying that he knows plenty of closeted gay men within the NBA.

# ? Apr 30, 2013 00:14

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

Yea SI meant it as 'the concept of gay athletes and how it can be brought to light', it just kinda happened to look like "CHECK THE GAY OUT Y'ALL" because it's right next to his face.

# ? Apr 30, 2013 00:44

Megillah Gorilla: Sep 22, 2003; If only all of life's problems could be solved by smoking a professor of ancient evil texts.; Bread Liar

They could at least have gone for something a bit more tasteful. 'On the court and out of the closet' maybe?

# ? Apr 30, 2013 05:02

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# ? Jun 7, 2024 05:54

Ponsonby Britt: Mar 13, 2006; I think you mean, why is there silverware in the pancake drawer? Wassup?

greatn posted:

Well if you have a two patent household with only one income, isn't the upper threshold for aid higher?

Obviously I don't know the numbers, but say a gay couple earns 50,000 from one income. 50,000 with one income and one dependent is too much for federal aid, because the government pretends the partner didn't even exist.

Take the same couple though where you count both their incomes, one of which is zero. A two income household only getting 50,000 may be eligible for the financial aid

But student aid benefits middle- and working-class families, few of whom have stay-at-home parents. In the great majority of cases, counting both parents will just raise the eligibility floor. (Also, I think most single-earner, two-parent households fall into one of two categories. Either the family is so rich, one spouse doesn't have to work, in which case they're not getting student aid anyway. Or the family has so many kids, one spouse has to stay home, in which case the government relaxes eligibility for student aid.)

# ? Apr 30, 2013 05:20

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