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The Warszawa posted:Cruz is a Hispanic graduate of Harvard and Harvard Law, where he helped found the Harvard Latino Law Review and was an editor of the Harvard Law Review, and clerked for Chief Justice Rehnquist. He was the first Hispanic to clerk for a Chief Justice. Dershowitz has personally commented on the guy's intelligence. He's not stupid, he's just wrong. When people say "it just takes money," it really contorts the very valid points about access to prestige markers in America. While it's certainly not a merits game through and through, if you think the same social opportunities to "buy in" exist for non-white people, you haven't been paying attention. Cruz went to Princeton for undergrad, not Harvard, and you're making it sound like he was a indígena day-laborer who got in on an affirmative action scholarship. His Cuban and Irish-Italian parents financed his education with the bundles they made doing oil exploration. His law career is a typical example of someone who leverages his powerful college connections and conservative credentials to gain access to the Southern bureaucracy and corporate lobbyists. He may well be smart, but the mere existence of his Ivy education and law career success is not prima facie proof of that. Kaal fucked around with this message at 16:44 on May 1, 2013 |
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May 1, 2013 16:34
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Kaal posted:Cruz went to Princeton for undergrad, not Harvard, and you're making it sound like he was a indígena day-laborer who got in on an affirmative action scholarship. His Cuban and Irish-Italian parents financed his education with the bundles they made doing oil exploration. His law career is a typical example of a someone who leverages his powerful college connections and conservative credentials to gain access to the Southern bureaucracy and corporate lobbyists. He may well be smart, but the mere existence of his Ivy education and law career success is not prima facie proof of that. Yeah, I forgot he was a Princeton guy. It's his debate record that made me think he went to Harvard. Also, if saying that being non-white in this country reduces your ability to "buy prestige" is "making it sound like he was a indígena day-laborer who got in on an affirmative action scholarship," that says more about your preconceptions than anything. You'll note that we weren't actually talking about his legal career, though I suppose you could make the argument that his clerkship is part of his career (it's really more of a weird middle ground between career and school). Acting like "indígena day-laborers" are the only minorities who face structural obstacles on account of their race or color is a pretty dumb thing though. This goes more to the guy who sparked this by calling Cruz stupid than anything, but there's a pretty unsettling trend of tearing down people of color on the other side of a political divide in a way that doesn't really manifest when the opponent is a white dude, alongside the usual bullshit delegitimization of identity.
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May 1, 2013 16:50
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The Warszawa posted:
I think in the case of Cruz it's likely people here are calling him stupid because people here call everyone who espouses Paulite / lolbertarian rhetoric stupid. Technically speaking, Bachmann has impeccable credentials too.
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May 1, 2013 16:55
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Kaal posted:There are plenty of people who've done both and are stupid as gently caress. Doing either just takes money. One of the Fox and Friends' host (Gretchen Carlson) graduated cum laude from Stanford and was her high school's valedictorian. All indications are she is extremely smart, she just plays a complete idiot host on TV. Similar things can be said about Cruz. He believes the poo poo he talks about, but that doesn't make him unintelligent. But his presentation of being a confrontational rear end is almost certainly an act he puts on to get praised in the right wing echochamber.
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May 1, 2013 16:57
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I think in the case of Cruz it's likely people here are calling him stupid because people here call everyone who espouses Paulite / lolbertarian rhetoric stupid. Technically speaking, Bachmann has impeccable credentials too. When the quote in reference is "There are plenty of people who've [gone to an Ivy League and spoken at the Supreme Court] and are stupid as gently caress. Doing either just takes money", I think the implication is that he's an idiot but with money.
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May 1, 2013 16:57
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The Warszawa posted:Also, if saying that being non-white in this country reduces your ability to "buy prestige" is "making it sound like he was a indígena day-laborer who got in on an affirmative action scholarship," that says more about your preconceptions than anything. You'll note that we weren't actually talking about his legal career, though I suppose you could make the argument that his clerkship is part of his career (it's really more of a weird middle ground between career and school). Acting like "indígena day-laborers" are the only minorities who face structural obstacles on account of their race or color is a pretty dumb thing though. Maybe you're simply unaware of the history of Cuban exiles, but it is unlikely that Cruz experienced any particular connection to "hispanic" culture or suffered decreased access to power on account of his ethnic heritage. Certainly he's never mentioned having such an experience. It's foolish to act as if a Cuban mestizo is representative of hispanic discrimination. Kaal fucked around with this message at 17:02 on May 1, 2013 |
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May 1, 2013 16:57
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Kaal posted:Maybe you're simply unaware of the history of Cuban exiles, but it is unlikely that Cruz experienced any particular connection to "hispanic" culture or suffered decreased access to power on account of his ethnic heritage. Certainly he's never mentioned having such an experience. It's foolish to act as if he's a symbol of overcoming racial discrimination. I think that's a really stupid loving assumption that you're making, especially considering that most people don't stop to check your nationality bonafides before making a snap judgment on your ethnic identity. It's almost as if many if not most of the problems that manifest as structural obstacles are because of externally imposed assumptions! No one's acting like Cruz is a symbol of anything, but I think it's dumb to say "well he's Cuban so he must not really be connected to Hispanic culture and he probably never faced discrimination." Racism, structural and interpersonal, affects Hispanics on multiple levels, even when you don't like their politics. I can't imagine why a conservative politician from Texas would downplay his cultural identity if it's separate from "white as gently caress," though. (I'm Cuban-American, tell me more about how unlikely it is that I experienced any particular connection with "Hispanic culture" or an umbrella identity.)
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May 1, 2013 17:05
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computer parts posted:When the quote in reference is "There are plenty of people who've [gone to an Ivy League and spoken at the Supreme Court] and are stupid as gently caress. Doing either just takes money", I think the implication is that he's an idiot but with money. I'm not saying whether he's an idiot or not - people need to drop the idea that simply attending a prestige school makes you smart.
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May 1, 2013 17:07
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Kaal posted:I'm not saying whether he's an idiot or not - people need to drop the idea that simply attending a prestige school makes you smart. What I and others are pointing out is that there comes a point in someone's career when you have to acknowledge that the decreased availability of opportunities that 'non-smart' people have to get into prestige schools alongside, over and over, getting the accolades reserved for the smart, the connected, or both, means that they're probably at the very least "not stupid."
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May 1, 2013 17:10
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I'm going to withhold judgement until Cruz releases his college records. 
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May 1, 2013 17:16
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jackofarcades posted:Cruz went graduated from two Ivys and has argued cases before the Supreme Court. He's not stupid. "Able to form complete sentences" != "Smart". Michele Bachmann can speak in complete sentences too, but she's so batshit insane that it doesn't matter. Ted Cruz is the same thing, just wrapped up in a Canadian Latino outer shell. When fellow Republicans hate you this much, you have little opportunity for career advancement. He'll be a senator from Texas as long as he wants, but his national aspirations are DOA.
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May 1, 2013 17:21
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Alter Ego posted:"Able to form complete sentences" != "Smart". The threshold of not making GBS threads yourself in front of the hottest of hot benches is at if not above "smart."
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May 1, 2013 17:24
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It boggles my mind that someone could argue in front of the Supreme Court one day, and the same person could accuse Chuck Hagel of being associated with "Friends of Hamas" during his confirmation hearing on another. This isn't snark, I'm being sincere.
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May 1, 2013 18:12
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The Landstander posted:It boggles my mind that someone could argue in front of the Supreme Court one day, and the same person could accuse Chuck Hagel of being associated with "Friends of Hamas" during his confirmation hearing on another. Much like arguing before the Supreme Court, confirmation hearings are less about objective reality and more about using the politics of the audience to your advantage.
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May 1, 2013 18:14
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Yeah, I'll admit I was wrong in calling Cruz stupid. He certainly puts on an anti-intellectual front, but you don't wage the kind of insurgent campaign that placed him in the Senate without a fair measure of canniness. EDIT: whoa, although it had nothing to do with his race, want to clear that up right now SombreroAgnew fucked around with this message at 18:20 on May 1, 2013 |
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May 1, 2013 18:17
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Highspeeddub posted:If Ted Cruz can run, then what about Granholm or for that matter Schwarzenegger? Last I checked Calgary still isn't part of the United States. His mother's from Delaware, so is that his tenuous claim to being an American? He is no Barry Goldwater either. Under jus sanguinis, if either of his parents was an American citizen at the time of his birth then he was an American citizen from birth as well. Wikipedia indicates that both parents were American citizens and the family moved back to the US when he was four, so I see nothing tenuous about his claim at all. Granholm and Schwarzenegger were born outside the US to non-US citizen parents and would have no basis for claiming to be natural born citizens.
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May 1, 2013 18:24
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I think in the case of Cruz it's likely people here are calling him stupid because people here call everyone who espouses Paulite / lolbertarian rhetoric stupid. Technically speaking, Bachmann has impeccable credentials too. Bachmann has degrees from Winona State, the first graduating class (poo poo numbers ahoy) of Oral Roberts Law and a W&M tax LLM (a tax LLM used to be the traditional way to fix graduating from a bad law school with bad grades). Her pedigree is terrible and she is genuinely Palin-level not very bright. Cruz isn't remotely in this group. Neither is any other serious contender for the '16 nomination.
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May 1, 2013 19:16
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Adar posted:Cruz isn't remotely in this group. Neither is any other serious contender for the '16 nomination. I think Rand Paul is on the bubble in both respects.
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May 1, 2013 19:28
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Eletriarnation posted:Under jus sanguinis, if either of his parents was an American citizen at the time of his birth then he was an American citizen from birth as well. Wikipedia indicates that both parents were American citizens and the family moved back to the US when he was four, so I see nothing tenuous about his claim at all. It's the same issue McCain had and congress said they considered him to be natural born. It won't be a serious issue for Cruz.
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May 1, 2013 20:43
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Eletriarnation posted:Under jus sanguinis, if either of his parents was an American citizen at the time of his birth then he was an American citizen from birth as well. Wikipedia indicates that both parents were American citizens and the family moved back to the US when he was four, so I see nothing tenuous about his claim at all. By that logic, wouldn't Obama be an American citizen no matter where he was born? Oh wait, the problem here is that it would require logic and not extreme racism. I guess Cruz is just "one of the good ones," so his birth certificate situation doesn't matter.
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May 1, 2013 20:49
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In McCain's case, he wasn't just born from US citizens but on US soil at a military base. Military bases located elsewhere are still considered US soil, just like a US embassy. The difference is Cruz, presumably, wasn't born on one of those but he was still an American citizen by birth and likely natural born. But don't worry because Cruz won't even make it to the loving Iowa straw poll.
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May 1, 2013 20:50
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notthegoatseguy posted:In McCain's case, he wasn't just born from US citizens but on US soil at a military base. Military bases located elsewhere are still considered US soil, just like a US embassy. The difference is Cruz, presumably, wasn't born on one of those but he was still an American citizen by birth and likely natural born. Even more than that: it was a US military base inside a US territory. Anyway, the fun with Cruz isn't so much the legal technicalities of whether he's a natural born citizen, but the whiplash from the birther movement. Maybe I'm not giving them enough credit, maybe Orly will go on a crusade against Cruz as well. I somehow suspect that's not the case though.
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May 1, 2013 20:53
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JosefStalinator posted:By that logic, wouldn't Obama be an American citizen no matter where he was born? The ostensible issue with whether Obama was born in Hawaii is because of the requirement that the President be a natural-born citizen, which historically means born in the United States. If I recall correctly it's why Hamilton never got to be President. (That and Aaron Burr.) The problem is that a) it's a real dumb requirement and b) it was never defined properly, so it's real ambiguous. Granholm and Schwarzenegger are definitely not natural born, and would need an amendment. Folks like Cruz and Inouye are more ambiguous.
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May 1, 2013 20:54
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Teddybear posted:The ostensible issue with whether Obama was born in Hawaii is because of the requirement that the President be a natural-born citizen, which historically means born in the United States. If I recall correctly it's why Hamilton never got to be President. (That and Aaron Burr.) The problem is that a) it's a real dumb requirement and b) it was never defined properly, so it's real ambiguous. Yeah, and my point was, and Joementum echoed it, that the same criteria the birther movement had for Obama (HAD TO BE BORN IN AMERICA) would disqualify Cruz entirely. But also like Joementum said, they almost certainly won't care.
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May 1, 2013 21:02
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Joementum posted:I think Rand Paul is on the bubble in both respects. Are Baylor and Duke joke schools?
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May 1, 2013 21:21
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Baruch Obamawitz posted:Are Baylor and Duke joke schools? No, and I'm not wading into the credentialing debate people have been having here. You can be an idiot and go to great schools and you can be a genius and go to crappy schools. I'm just basing my opinion of Rand's intelligence on having listened to his speeches, his television interviews, and read some of his opinion pieces. He's trying to do the same thing Newt does where he projects more intelligence than he actually has, but the difference is that Newt's a bookworm and can at least fake it by dragging out some historical trivia. Rand's just lazy in his studies and ends up shocked that he's not the only person in the room who knows the NAACP was founded by Republicans or says stupid things, like his deep concern that drones will allow the federal government to figure out what type of mail you're receiving because they'll use the drone to peek in your mailbox.
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May 1, 2013 22:59
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Baruch Obamawitz posted:Are Baylor and Duke joke schools? When Rand Paul gives a speech on ophthalmology, he'll probably come off smarter. He's plenty smart, he's just incurious about explanations for things like "the evolution of government power in the 20th century" and "minorities having rights." Medical school generally is a lovely qualification for legislative work. Cruz, on the other hand, studied law which is somewhat related to the creation of law.
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May 1, 2013 23:56
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Joementum posted:No, and I'm not wading into the credentialing debate people have been having here. You can be an idiot and go to great schools and you can be a genius and go to crappy schools. I'm just basing my opinion of Rand's intelligence on having listened to his speeches, his television interviews, and read some of his opinion pieces. He's trying to do the same thing Newt does where he projects more intelligence than he actually has, but the difference is that Newt's a bookworm and can at least fake it by dragging out some historical trivia. Rand's just lazy in his studies and ends up shocked that he's not the only person in the room who knows the NAACP was founded by Republicans or says stupid things, like his deep concern that drones will allow the federal government to figure out what type of mail you're receiving because they'll use the drone to peek in your mailbox. And he's a dick about it, which makes Rand that much more insufferable. The fact that Newt was a viable Republican nominee for much of the last primary just shows
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May 2, 2013 00:10
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One of Rand's top staffers has left to organize for him in primary states. It's no secret that Rand is running in 2016, the only question is whether he honestly believes he has a shot. If he's as cynical as I am, he'll know that he can't possibly win and focus on the grifter side of the campaign, soaking up as much money for Campaign For Liberty as he can. It's hard to know whether this move is in line with that effort or whether he has a sincere belief that there's a future for a member of the Paul family in national politics.
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May 3, 2013 03:03
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If anyone is organizing in primary states a good year and a half ahead of everyone else, they're in it to win it. If Paul was going to be running a campaign as a rubber chicken circuit or book tour, he wouldn't bother building a high level political machine.
oldfan fucked around with this message at 03:23 on May 3, 2013 |
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May 3, 2013 03:20
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Paul is sort of infamous as being flaky on the Hill, so just because he's running today doesn't mean he'll want to run tomorrow.
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May 3, 2013 05:05
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jeffersonlives posted:If anyone is organizing in primary states a good year and a half ahead of everyone else, they're in it to win it. If Paul was going to be running a campaign as a rubber chicken circuit or book tour, he wouldn't bother building a high level political machine. I think he also realizes that this is his best chance for a while. So many potential candidates are either killing their own prospects (Christie) or having their last name do it for them (Bush, Other Bush) that, while he still probably won't win, his odds are better than usual. It's the difference between like 1% and 2%, but it's something.
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May 3, 2013 07:07
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The Warszawa posted:Yeah, I forgot he was a Princeton guy. It's his debate record that made me think he went to Harvard. There's nothing improper about pointing out that Ted Cruz has very little claim to speak to the Latino experience in America or that you're unlikely to see someone who looks like him standing outside of a Home Depot. It's also just as absurd to engage in the standard lefty concern-trolling about race because someone called Cruz an idiot, as if that weren't part of the litany of insults levied(usually at least somewhat justly) against most Tea Party friendly Republicans. Fwiw, Cruz doesn't seem to be an idiot. He's very skillfully playing to the Republican id, but if he thinks he can build up enough good will from the wingnuts to tack to the center in a year or two he's going to find out just how wrong he can be.
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May 3, 2013 08:08
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amaranthine posted:I think he also realizes that this is his best chance for a while. So many potential candidates are either killing their own prospects (Christie) or having their last name do it for them (Bush, Other Bush) that, while he still probably won't win, his odds are better than usual. It's the difference between like 1% and 2%, but it's something. Christie is massively popular in his home state and, given that polls at this point mean nothing, has at least done well to separate himself from the melee that is the Republican Party of late.
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May 3, 2013 10:06
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:Christie is massively popular in his home state and, given that polls at this point mean nothing, has at least done well to separate himself from the melee that is the Republican Party of late. Unfortunately in order to get through a primary he has to work within that melee. Romney had to blow up to $20 million per state to beat Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum of all people.
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May 3, 2013 10:29
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Joementum posted:One of Rand's top staffers has left to organize for him in primary states. If he's in it just for the dollars then he'll have to milk it for all it's worth because January 2016 is his deadline to resign his senate seat if he goes all in. Rubio's deadline is in June.
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May 3, 2013 10:51
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Brigadier Sockface posted:If he's in it just for the dollars then he'll have to milk it for all it's worth because January 2016 is his deadline to resign his senate seat if he goes all in. Rubio's deadline is in June. You don't need to resign your Senate seat to run for President. In fact, you can be on the ballot for both Senator and President in an election year.
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May 3, 2013 12:48
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Joementum posted:You don't need to resign your Senate seat to run for President. In fact, you can be on the ballot for both Senator and President in an election year. Kentucky and Florida state law prohibits this. Brigadier Sockface fucked around with this message at 13:16 on May 3, 2013 |
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May 3, 2013 13:07
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:Christie is massively popular in his home state and, given that polls at this point mean nothing, has at least done well to separate himself from the melee that is the Republican Party of late. Christie has spent the last four years making GBS threads all over the Republican base, and after the Romney thing they're really not in the mood to vote for somebody who's "a moderate that can win". Every talk show host, most of the magazines, and even some of the Fox News shows have been getting salty about his "love affair with Obama", and I can't see him winning in a primary until the Republican Party finally undergoes its long-awaited implosion. I don't think Christie has the flexibility (lol) to change his views in the way Romney did and get away with it, and I frankly don't think he wants to. If he gets a challenge from a threat on the right with some degree of credentials (Rubio, Cruz, Paul, Jindal, Santorum from a whole different wing of conservatism), I think he'll be hard-pressed to fend them all off. The purity crusaders will be out in force, and I think they're going to burn the party to the ground before they give in.
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May 3, 2013 14:10
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Are there any efforts to change the term limits for congressional and gubernatorial politicians at the moment? I find it interesting how disparate the term limit rules are from state to state, and was honestly surprised to see that it's that restrictive, as someone from a country of parliamentary government.
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May 3, 2013 14:30
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