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I'd just add a suggestion that you leave some flexibility in your scripting - more 'here is a bunch of things that could happen' rather than a rigid flow chart of challenges. And threaten the PCs so they sometimes have to make choices between protecting each other or damaging the beast.
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May 5, 2013 04:19
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God Of Paradise posted:So I took a vote. Should this PC be able to rape NPCs and kill PCs? I asked the 4 other players. 3 of them said they were fine with it. One of them said yes, but it was dumb. My girlfriend said it was dumb but that she didn't give a poo poo. I am the lone person opposed. I'm going to set aside my gut reaction of "gently caress don't do that that's awful" for a moment. You have one player who wants to play in the campaign where PCs can sexually assault people, and apparently four more who are willing to do so, if not enthusiastically from what you've written. I think a good question, though, is are you willing to run the campaign where rape is actually on the table for acceptable actions? Are you comfortable with that? With the sort of places that could go? If the answer is no, I think you know what you should tell him. Your job as a GM might be to facilitate the group's fun and make sure that everyone's enjoying the experience, but at the same time you are playing this game too. Your enjoyment should be a factor as well. It is perfectly acceptable for you to say "no, dude, I'd rather not do this kind of poo poo." We're talking about one of the most difficult themes to include in any sort of fiction here, and one that is actively terrible and destructive if you gently caress up with it. This is not the sort of thing you want to toss in if even one member of the group is not fully on board. And can you imagine if you ever need to bring in a new player? Would you just not mention anything and just wait until it actually comes up, or would you want to be the GM to have to preface an invitation to come join your group with "hey, you're cool with PCs raping people from time to time, right"?
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May 5, 2013 04:39
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Gazetteer posted:Your job as a GM might be to facilitate the group's fun and make sure that everyone's enjoying the experience, but at the same time you are playing this game too. Your enjoyment should be a factor as well. It is perfectly acceptable for you to say "no, dude, I'd rather not do this kind of poo poo." We're talking about one of the most difficult themes to include in any sort of fiction here, and one that is actively terrible and destructive if you gently caress up with it. This is not the sort of thing you want to toss in if even one member of the group is not fully on board. This is good advice. You shouldn't agree to anything you're not comfortable with, even if the rest of your players are. If your problem guy feels like his character is going in the wrong direction, just ask him if he wants to make a new one that he finds more interesting. It may feel like you're beholden to your group and that you should go with what they want in the interest of facilitating their fun, but you're not - your fun is as important as their fun. Also including rape in games usually feels like it's asking for trouble down the line, probably because of the types of people who tend to want it in their games.
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May 5, 2013 04:56
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I'm not going to lie, in my many years of playing RPGs, I've never ran into rape *EVER* being a thing. That being said, I also can't see it *EVER* being a good idea. Unless your group has a big ol' orgy after playing Elfgames or something, a thing as skeevy as rape or sexual encounters beyond "yup, you had sex with that barmaid that night" just seems to me like something that should be kept completely out of games, for various reasons that I think are pretty obvious to anyone ever.
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May 5, 2013 06:08
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Nostalgia4ColdWar fucked around with this message at 03:04 on Mar 31, 2017 |
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May 5, 2013 06:16
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Guesticles posted:Thinking about how I'd handle this in my games, I always run my games as fade to black for anything sex-related. Sexy times in my games are usually used for comedic effect anyway, so any sort of rape would really go against the tone of the game. I think this is good advice. I was toying with having a couple of my NPCs "make love" but I never had any intention of describing sex acts to my players. There was, however, the love scene leading up to it. My point would be, you MUST consider WHY it is happening. In my case, it is the culmination of the NPCs literally and figuratively taking off each others' armor; the characters stepped out of their comfort zones, (in spite of their misgivings) and were able to open up to one another and consummate their relationship. There is character development there. To tie this into the "rape" question: What is this act supposed to say about the character? What sort of character development is taking place? What does it say about his inner workings? If the answer to any of these is "nothing" then it has no... "artistic merit" shall we say? It doesn't advance the narrative, so it is just an evil act for the sake of evil; as others have said, if he wants to write his character out of the story, then find another way and do it.
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May 5, 2013 08:14
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Gazetteer posted:I'm going to set aside my gut reaction of "gently caress don't do that that's awful" for a moment. I'm okay with it if it's treated as a tragedy. If he's willing to roleplay the downfall of his character, I'm willing to facilitate it. If he takes any of those actions, killing a PC or raping an NPC, they will have an appropriate reaction. I am not okay with treating it as, "I rape this NPC," and then the other players having to feel hunky dory about continuing to travel with this scumbag. I would enjoy reigning terror and pain down upon any player that wants to commit the act of rape in a D&D game. You see, I enjoy the game Paranoia, so I would enjoy watching the party become severed. I'd enjoy watching one party member turn another party member in for his crimes. I'd enjoy powerful NPC benefactors turning on the party. And finally, I've always wanted to kill a PC using the Lady of Pain. Due to the storyline and setting, I'd have a perfect excuse to do so. I am already savoring the moment when I turn this on the player by telling him. "There's no chance of escape, there is no saving throw. A human head once decapitated can stay conscious for about 20 seconds after decapitation. You spend the first five seconds realizing that the flayed skin and entrails spread about the spires of the buildings in the Grand Bazaar are your own. The next five seconds, as the world grows dim, you realize that your teeth have been shattered as your mouth was impaled at the apex of one of those spires. The next fives seconds are your eyes realizing that the spire is a cathedral of some sort and that you are in fact, dead. The last five, as you attempt to utter a scream no one will ever hear, can be you praying to the deaf ears of gods that will take no pity on your weak worthless soul. The Lady of Pain hovers over the pieces of your body for awhile, and for a moment glares down at your former friends and compatriots. There are no words, no emotions, but the message is simple, raising or resurrecting this man will grant you a similar fate. Role a new character." So yes. Let's have a rape party poo poo-head. We'll see who leaves feeling powerless and violated. God Of Paradise fucked around with this message at 08:21 on May 5, 2013 |
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May 5, 2013 08:18
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Nostalgia4ColdWar fucked around with this message at 03:05 on Mar 31, 2017 |
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May 5, 2013 09:01
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50 Foot Ant posted:Another point on the raping scumbags is a lot of people have weird ideas about the medieval ages. Like everyone's going to be hunky-dory with a rapist. Yeah. As a player, raping and pillaging would be fine if we were playing an evil campaign that we weren't taking seriously. I mean, I get it. I've played the GTA series and had fun running hookers over on sidewalks. Nothing wrong with an adult who is capable of distinguishing reality from fiction playing a game that lets them have stupid, anti-social catharsis. I think of Chevy Chase in Community, "As a free action, I rape the Ducard Family... Again." It's not right, or mature, but I found that line hilarious. This isn't that game. In this game undermining the parties goals will undermine some very, very powerful entities. And committing acts like rape and wanton murder will have very bad social and legal consequences. I thought that would be clear to the players, that this wasn't that type of game. In D&D video games like Baldur's Gate or Planescape Torment, doing things like murdering NPC's or party members will pretty quickly turn into the player having very little hope of continuing the game. Have I got bored and killed a whole town before hitting reload? Yeah... But that's not the point of the game. And a computer's AI can't be griefed. A video game, the people you are griefing can't see you. There aren't any real social negatives that can come back to bite you as a player. In a person to person RPG, greifing the other players can get you kicked out of a house or excluded from that group of people.
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May 5, 2013 09:24
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God Of Paradise posted:
I'm confused and upset by your rapist-torturing fantasy. Your table may be different from mine, but sexual assault is something that has very little part in pretend games. That's on the one hand, that it's at a vote. You're a GM, and your job is facilitate fun for everyone; but just like four wolves and a sheep don't vote on dinner, what is acceptable in your house is up to you. It's your perogative; you're going to be spending the most and brainpower on the game; you can't abdicate tone with a vote. But the other thing is, you seem to have a rape-revenging fantasy, where the Goddess of Pain goes out of her way to punish an errant player-rapist. That doesn't make sense. In a world with evil Deities who war in hell forever, evil is no vice. You really can't produce a world where murder, slavery and genocide are considered OK, but rape is a Universal Mustn't. To do so desexualizes your world and robs it of a lot of the edginess you're going for; either evil gods are OK with taking sex by force, or the orc marauders are a bunch of pointless thrill-killers.
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May 5, 2013 10:36
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I'd ask the player to create a new PC if he really wants his current character to become a rapist. You mentioned that there are no other evil PCs so it's only going to inevitably create tension IC if not OOC. My own experience tells me it's likely he may drop out if he's trying to play against the tone of the campaign. My group had the opposite situation (Party of evil PCs, one didn't want to be evil anymore) and the contrary player left the campaign simply because he lost interest with the theme and tone. I'd ask him "Are you losing interest in the campaign?" versus "How much rape are you looking to do?" and see what he says.
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May 5, 2013 11:10
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Thanks for the advice folks, re: giant smake monster. Great stuff, I'll try to post the results after the game next week.
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May 5, 2013 13:22
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I'm running a Sci-Fi campaign based off of D20 future and some smatterings of other source info I can find. Trouble is, I'm having a really hard time getting myself as into it without having set up a really competent backstory. I'm looking for good settings/adventures (doesn't matter if they're d20, I just need the story) but when Traveller has 130 pages just for Starports it gets kinda daunting.
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May 5, 2013 13:22
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God Of Paradise posted:I am the lone person opposed. Stop the campaign and find a new group of players.
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May 5, 2013 13:56
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God Of Paradise posted:So yes. Let's have a rape party poo poo-head. We'll see who leaves feeling powerless and violated. Yikes. Different strokes and all, but this whole thing sound awfully dark for such a game-hobby. To me, your whole situation sounds pretty grim. If they're really your friends, they'll respect your desire to leave out that subject matter. I'm sure most people would be on your side: putting a stop to rape fantasies in an elf game.
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May 5, 2013 15:27
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God Of Paradise posted:So yes. Let's have a rape party poo poo-head. We'll see who leaves feeling powerless and violated. Every time you tell a story it is like some kind of competition between you and your players to see who is the creepiest fucker at your table. When 50 Foot Ant of all people is the one telling you your problematic story is creepy, you have some issues dude.
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May 5, 2013 16:33
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Golden Bee posted:or the orc marauders are a bunch of pointless thrill-killers.
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May 5, 2013 16:56
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BrainGlitch posted:I'm running a Sci-Fi campaign based off of D20 future and some smatterings of other source info I can find. Trouble is, I'm having a really hard time getting myself as into it without having set up a really competent backstory. I'm looking for good settings/adventures (doesn't matter if they're d20, I just need the story) but when Traveller has 130 pages just for Starports it gets kinda daunting. Check out Pirates of Drinax from Mongoose. It's a free campaign, they've done four of ten of the modules so far. It's a fantastic scifi sandbox setting.
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May 5, 2013 20:29
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Heart Attacks posted:Thrill killing is pretty terrifying though. I actually haven't had any of those in my game! My villains have killed for money, land, rage, fame, or because they're 3 ton rhinos. "No reason" is a hell of a reason. Brain: What do you want from your game? Is it hard Scifi? Is it hardscifi with a bunch of conceits (A'la Eclipse Phase) or is it fantastic scifi, where there are a poo poo ton of alien races, space-ship battles, and a galactic government? "Space" and "Future" are ingredients, not a recipe; there's a world of difference between Aliens, Serenity, or Star Trek.
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May 5, 2013 21:02
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Golden Bee posted:I actually haven't had any of those in my game! My villains have killed for money, land, rage, fame, or because they're 3 ton rhinos. "No reason" is a hell of a reason. I read a story in Reader's Digest a long time ago about a couple of guys who would get in a truck and drive around and then shoot people they passed by. Like, that's terrifying. What's their motivation? They don't have one. How do they pick their targets? Proximity. How can you prepare for that kind of thing? You really can't.
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May 5, 2013 22:37
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50 Foot Ant posted:But the biggest thing I'm wrestling with is: What pushed the Core Lands over the edge? I'm planning 10 years between the time the PC's arrived at the colony and when they get the chance to head into the old Core Lands. Magic stopped acting like technology and started acting like magic. Lightning trains dropped a monsoon on their own roadbeds and derailed. Bound torches slowly sucked the ability for anything else to be hot and blaze merrily away in an arctic wasteland. Slaved elementals attained critical mass and shifted a pocket of their home plane into the middle of the machine that depended on all of them. Over time, simpler and simpler spells began to backfire, because the world wasn't meant to be a magical place and the tethers that keep magic contained frayed and broke. No one even knew what to look for.
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May 5, 2013 23:28
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Winson_Paine posted:Every time you tell a story it is like some kind of competition between you and your players to see who is the creepiest fucker at your table. When 50 Foot Ant of all people is the one telling you your problematic story is creepy, you have some issues dude. I'm not sure I follow what part of my story is creepy or problematic. I don't believe I mentioned anything from my story. My problem is with a player who wants to kill other PCs and talk about how he's raping imaginary people surrounded by a table of other players. Anyway, he was embarrassed after I took a vote from the other players. After the other players called him and messaged him about how weird it was that he wants to rape imaginary people in an RPG and kill the other players, the problem player has dropped the subject. So, shame worked. Crisis averted.
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May 5, 2013 23:51
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Golden Bee posted:I actually haven't had any of those in my game! My villains have killed for money, land, rage, fame, or because they're 3 ton rhinos. "No reason" is a hell of a reason. I guess I'd like to go somewhere in between Farscape and BSG, with a good amount of "realism" in terms of combat and such.
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May 6, 2013 01:09
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God Of Paradise posted:I'm not sure I follow what part of my story is creepy or problematic. I don't believe I mentioned anything from my story. My problem is with a player who wants to kill other PCs and talk about how he's raping imaginary people surrounded by a table of other players. quote:So, shame worked. Crisis averted. This is another. Rather than just saying "no, man, I don't want to do that, sorry", it's kind of passive-aggressive shame that carried the day. I mean, I'm glad you at least talked to him and the players, but still, it's better to own up to your own feelings than to try to arrange to have them expressed indirectly.
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May 6, 2013 01:18
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God Of Paradise posted:I'm not sure I follow what part of my story is creepy or problematic. I don't believe I mentioned anything from my story. My problem is with a player who wants to kill other PCs and talk about how he's raping imaginary people surrounded by a table of other players. Your relentless and almost masturbatory power fantasies about killing your players or torturing them or whatever, it actually appears to be some effort for you to make your players appear creepier than you do in your stories. EDIT: Oh, you are the "beyond my league pussy juice" guy. Stop being such a goony, creepy gently caress or it will go badly for you. It is possible you are not actually a goony creepy gently caress, but you are certainly coming off as one recently if the reports that keep coming in with drat near every post you make are to be believed. Winson_Paine fucked around with this message at 01:31 on May 6, 2013 |
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May 6, 2013 01:24
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Winson_Paine posted:Your relentless and almost masturbatory power fantasies about killing your players or torturing them or whatever, it actually appears to be some effort for you to make your players appear creepier than you do in your stories. The Pussy Juice story about how good it felt to kill players, I thought it was obviously a joke, but yeah, message received, I'll tone it down. And thanks to everyone who gave advice on how to deal with the issue of having a player who wanted to commit two big RPG no-no's.
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May 6, 2013 03:34
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homullus posted:This is another. Rather than just saying "no, man, I don't want to do that, sorry", it's kind of passive-aggressive shame that carried the day. I mean, I'm glad you at least talked to him and the players, but still, it's better to own up to your own feelings than to try to arrange to have them expressed indirectly. I did the direct approach. It led to an argument with the player where he said he was trying to be a good role-player. He explained he made a paranoid coward, and it was my fault his character felt that way... (Because I ran the old Ravenloft module.) The whole conversation was rather insane really. But I don't even like the guy really. He's 500 lbs. Smells. Doesn't like blacks. Is a gutter punk with a pink mohawk. In part it's because my wife just can't stand him. He's a friend of a friend and I think he needs to do something else on Saturday evening. His desire to kill PC's and rape NPC's was the final straw. God Of Paradise fucked around with this message at 03:51 on May 6, 2013 |
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May 6, 2013 03:38
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God Of Paradise posted:I did the direct approach. It led to an argument with the player where he said he was trying to be a good role-player. He explained he made a paranoid coward, and it was my fault his character felt that way... (Because I ran the old Ravenloft module.) The whole conversation was rather insane really. That's stuff I didn't know, sorry if I came across harshly -- I can see being not so into having That Guy around. And I was being serious about being glad you talked to him directly; as hard as that is, it's still the best way.
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May 6, 2013 03:59
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Nostalgia4ColdWar fucked around with this message at 03:07 on Mar 31, 2017 |
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May 6, 2013 04:12
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BrainGlitch posted:I guess I'd like to go somewhere in between Farscape and BSG, with a good amount of "realism" in terms of combat and such. So who are your players, and what do they do every session? Are they bridge officers, or an away team? You'll often find that even in a galactic campaign, the scope is relatively small. Think of how Mass Effect does it. Create a space station the players want; the players will only see 7 floors of it. (Docks, restaurants, police HQ, seedy area, club/casino, wildcard). If they go to another space station, emphasize the contrast. One is run by an extremely efficient, religious group; there's one pants store, one gun store, the church, and plenty of public space. Another is a space metropolis and has more stores than you can imagine. The next is a military installation, or a hospital ship. (If the hospital ship has a gift shop, the players may latch on to that; think about the features of your world that are unique, and make the players want to care. They'll build a world they like if you give'em half a chance.
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May 6, 2013 07:12
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My group just finished our long ongoing 1-30 level campaign last week, and we're starting over with new characters and a new player or two this week in the same world. One thing we've discussed is that we, as a group, really suck at doing things like speaking in character, and we're going to try to fix that this time round. As DM, I -know- this is a weakness of mine. I'd rather say what people DO than what they actually say. Are there any good tips for doing extemporaneous dialog, or tips for how to get to the point where I'll be able to do dialog extemporaneously? I feel like a twit when I try to do voices. I've decided to really challenge myself-- this will be a dialog heavy quest, being in an urban environment with a murder mystery as the plot. I'm just worried I won't be able to pull it off.
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May 6, 2013 16:06
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Iunnrais posted:My group just finished our long ongoing 1-30 level campaign last week, and we're starting over with new characters and a new player or two this week in the same world. One thing we've discussed is that we, as a group, really suck at doing things like speaking in character, and we're going to try to fix that this time round. Warm up. Try doing some writing exercises - PbP sort of things, have your players write letters, etc. These give your players more time to sit and think about what to say and how to say it so it should come more naturally when they start talking. As GM, I find it helps to visualize the character I'm currently playing. But even then, I often break down like you do - I end up summarizing dialogue.
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May 6, 2013 16:42
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You can try my method of "hit the nail on the head, then beat around the bush" I often have NPCs speak more or less in monologue, and then "open it up to questions" after, if people want specifics or clarifications. Sometimes summarizing stuff is fine. But (like you) I'm kinda doing a mystery story right now, so when I have NPCs give out clues, I like to do that completely in character, so it's not an obvious  THIS IS A CLUE FROM THE GM kind of thing, but I still gave them the information (if they were paying attention).Plot out the key points you need to make in your speaking so you don't forget anything important. As dumb as it may sound, being well-rested in addition to being prepared helps with this stuff a lot. And when you're not giving out clues that you want to be mysterious about and don't think the emotion or intonation of the speaking character has any bearing, then yeah, just summarize that poo poo.
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May 6, 2013 22:45
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Guesticles posted:Warm up. Try doing some writing exercises - PbP sort of things, have your players write letters, etc. These give your players more time to sit and think about what to say and how to say it so it should come more naturally when they start talking. Between game emails are pretty fantastic. Play out a scene or two over the week between games.
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May 6, 2013 23:35
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Make in game artifacts. I usually send out a mid week email with pictures and letters that the characters found during the session. Really helps the players guide the RP, because if they ask about an in game artifact that you really didn't flesh out before the session, you can elaborate on it in the email. I don't go full on DM mask, but in game feelies can facilitate the mood of the game as well. My group doesn't do much in character first person RP honestly, so I don't see a problem with narration vs. acting. You are still RPing in my opinion.
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May 7, 2013 01:27
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Iunnrais posted:My group just finished our long ongoing 1-30 level campaign last week, and we're starting over with new characters and a new player or two this week in the same world. One thing we've discussed is that we, as a group, really suck at doing things like speaking in character, and we're going to try to fix that this time round. Just have a different voice, temperament and quirks for every major NPC. Yes this means one NPC will be an old-timey news reel reporter and another will be a bad Liam Neeson impersonation, and another will be Terry Jones dressed in drag. But if you go with your gut instinct it'll be fine. It might be easier for me since I am used to performing and being silly in front of crowds. But the real thing that will help you to do dialogue in your game is just getting over that initial fear of public embarrassment through just saying gently caress it, and doing it. But trust me. Having weird in game conversations as part of the game is a lot of fun. If the party has to talk their way through something it can lead to a lot of great moments and, at times, hilarity. God Of Paradise fucked around with this message at 04:17 on May 7, 2013 |
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May 7, 2013 04:14
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I don't know why, but any game or setting I run will inevitably feature an "old-timey prospector" voice, even if it makes no sense in the setting.
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May 7, 2013 04:44
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God Of Paradise posted:Just have a different voice, temperament and quirks for every major NPC. This is great advice - an NPC should be a really simple caricature. Use a movie star or cartoon character, and let what they do in the game build their actual character. (Homer Simpson as tyrannical dictator, Mr Burns as innkeeper). And while you should never fall in love with them pay attention when your players fall in love with them.
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May 7, 2013 04:44
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sebmojo posted:This is great advice - an NPC should be a really simple caricature. Use a movie star or cartoon character, and let what they do in the game build their actual character. (Homer Simpson as tyrannical dictator, Mr Burns as innkeeper). And while you should never fall in love with them pay attention when your players fall in love with them. I've been using something like this for a long time and you'd think that people would be able to tell, but they absolutely never have. Maybe I'm just bad at impersonations 
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May 7, 2013 05:00
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This is something I use more as a player so maybe just advise them with it. But I got more involved with my current character by trying to role play one die roll a session. The first time I did this it was rolling a 1 on an Initiative check. There's always a piece of dumb mundane equipment on m y character, and my Halfling's was a bottle of wine. I decided that the sewer they were fighting in was gross and my Sorcerer needed a drink before going in. All of a sudden there was a Miss at the beginning of her name and she was a bit of a lush. Later she declined the gold reward if she could have an hour with the hiring noble's bathtub and 5 minutes with her wine cellar. And nthing the support for caricatures as a starting point. I've literally played a Druid named Sanford who would yell "I'm coming, Elizabeth!" whenever he was bloodied. It gets you having fun with your character, which gives them room to grow.
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May 7, 2013 05:17
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