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Assuming the Mage enemy and Idigam Chronicles does well enough, would a limited splat get their own? Would Ct:L be the first one?
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May 6, 2013 14:29
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I was at a Mage LARP yesterday and it really struck me how useful "court goodwill" from changeling is as a merit. I was a Council Forge Master, the premise was about a NPC mysterium Cabal who collect magic items wanting to show then off, just before we arrived some nefandi of some kind stole some of their items. Over the course of the game I helped save their stuff, protect their stuff and was pretty involved in really helping them out. But I have no way of showing that. Status as written assumes you've joined that faction. Something equivilant to court goodwill would be really handy.
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May 6, 2013 15:02
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Little_wh0re posted:I was at a Mage LARP yesterday and it really struck me how useful "court goodwill" from changeling is as a merit. Maybe something like Allies would suffice? Or Contacts, if Allies is overstating the case. I know those typically get used for mundane organizations, but seems like they'd work fine to represent that.
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May 6, 2013 15:04
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Court Goodwill works great for Mage, since the various Orders work together a good deal within a given Concilium. People started trying to apply it to Covenants in Vampire though and I think it's pretty unthematic over there. I'd use the hell out of it in Mage.
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May 6, 2013 15:07
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Xelkelvos posted:Assuming the Mage enemy and Idigam Chronicles does well enough, would a limited splat get their own? Would Ct:L be the first one? Probably. The others aren't popular enough to merit CCP's attention (Promethean, Geist), or can be done in a weekend by a random ST (Hunter). As it is, Onyx Path is too busy taking its sweet time spellchecking every single sentence of every single book to worry about that right now, not to mention their war with DriveThruRPG's glitchy printers. And frankly, that's a good thing. I'd rather have good vaporware and lots of homebrew than the infamous supplement treadmill. Remember Manual of Exalted Power: Infernals, Chapters 1-3 were like? Yeah. There were several (dozen) problems with that, but the treadmill and rushed dates were two of them. Rushing a release date never works. See: Every loving movie licence video game ever. Even the ones that aren't are exceptions that prove the rule; Spider-Man 2 the Game had a reason Maguire sounds bored or like he has a cold throughout the voice acting. Erebro fucked around with this message at 19:11 on May 6, 2013 |
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May 6, 2013 17:52
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Little_wh0re posted:I was at a Mage LARP yesterday and it really struck me how useful "court goodwill" from changeling is as a merit. Gonna snatch from the eventual C:tL write-up, but Court Goodwill works specifically within its splat because it has a tangible baked-in benefit; access and empowerment to that court's contracts (magic). Otherwise, having Allies (player grouping) would be effectively the same thing.
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May 6, 2013 19:01
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I did a combat with GMC rolls over the weekend. One shotgun blast knocked out a PC with 4 mage armor. He got two beats for it, though, since the shotgun-wielder was a vampire, and the PC was still Shaken by killing someone with his fire powers. For those of you curious, the vampire was killed by a Life mage giving lice the power to burrow into his skull, then transforming the lice into rats that ate his brain. Another mage is now afraid of all bugs. One of the concerns the players had is that it seemed beats and conditions were mostly given out for bad things happening to your characters. I told them that it should be relevant to what you're actually doing, and that jumping in front of cars would prevent your characters from doing anything else. I don't know if that's the best answer to that, though.
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May 6, 2013 21:09
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pospysyl posted:I did a combat with GMC rolls over the weekend. One shotgun blast knocked out a PC with 4 mage armor. He got two beats for it, though, since the shotgun-wielder was a vampire, and the PC was still Shaken by killing someone with his fire powers. For those of you curious, the vampire was killed by a Life mage giving lice the power to burrow into his skull, then transforming the lice into rats that ate his brain. Another mage is now afraid of all bugs. Eh, exceptional successes get you beats just as much as dramatic failures and fulfilling aspirations can be a potent source of beats. I doubt it'll be a problem in long term play, just a different way of doing things. On the subject if beats, do people have any ideas for arcane XP? I'm thinking of either having a second pool that gets beats according to the conditions for AXP in the mage book, or arcane beats getting added to the main pool. I'm probably leaning more towards the first, but either way I think it could do with a tune-up of the gain conditions, to make them more punchy and god-machine-y.
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May 6, 2013 21:22
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Flavivirus posted:Eh, exceptional successes get you beats just as much as dramatic failures and fulfilling aspirations can be a potent source of beats. I doubt it'll be a problem in long term play, just a different way of doing things. I give mages a second set of Aspirations called "Obsessions" representing the mysteries they're currently working on, though they can explicitly leave some of their Obsession slots free in order to grab onto the supernal occurance of the story. Working toward or resolving them gets Arcane Beats. Conditions from Dramatic Failure and Exceptional Success *when casting spells* also get Arcane Beats instead of regular ones. Other cases are Storyteller's prerogative. Five Arcane Beats is an Arcane Experience. Spend them on Gnosis as before+. + well, not in my game. In my game I let players spend AXPs on Arcana and Mage-specific merits as well.
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May 6, 2013 22:27
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Dave Brookshaw posted:I give mages a second set of Aspirations called "Obsessions" representing the mysteries they're currently working on, though they can explicitly leave some of their Obsession slots free in order to grab onto the supernal occurance of the story. Working toward or resolving them gets Arcane Beats. I'm sorry, I can't think of Arcane Beats as anything but some genre of music blasting out of a beaten up 1970s Chevy van with this airbrushed on the side:  And an "Arcane Experience" is what the driver calls it whenever he gets some stoned chick from Burning Man onto the shag rug in the back.
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May 6, 2013 22:57
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Dave Brookshaw posted:I give mages a second set of Aspirations called "Obsessions" representing the mysteries they're currently working on, though they can explicitly leave some of their Obsession slots free in order to grab onto the supernal occurance of the story. Working toward or resolving them gets Arcane Beats. You've been running Mage with GMC rules for a while now, yes? Have you had much of a play around with Paradoxes imposing Conditions? It strikes me they're a pretty logical way of dealing with paradox effects like Branding, Bedlam and Anomaly (with anomaly being more of an environmental tilt, I guess).
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May 6, 2013 23:27
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Daeren posted:I'm sorry, I can't think of Arcane Beats as anything but some genre of music blasting out of a beaten up 1970s Chevy van with this airbrushed on the side: ... I think you're disapproving of the name, but I can't be certain. I have trouble believing anything that relates to that picture in any way would be qualified as a bad thing.  Seriously, though, I don't think it's that silly. Unless you're talking about Promethean, in which case you would probably get Vitriol Beats, and vitriol is an acid. This lends itself to a group of Prometheans going on the Pilgrimage not for humanity, but because Redemption would be the best LSD trip ever. Probably not what the writers have in mind, unless they are Greg Stolze. Narcotic Alchemy is kind of a thing in Unknown Armies. Erebro fucked around with this message at 00:47 on May 7, 2013 |
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May 7, 2013 00:41
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Flavivirus posted:You've been running Mage with GMC rules for a while now, yes? Have you had much of a play around with Paradoxes imposing Conditions? It strikes me they're a pretty logical way of dealing with paradox effects like Branding, Bedlam and Anomaly (with anomaly being more of an environmental tilt, I guess). I like it. The fact that Conditions stick around until they're resolved also adds a welcome degree of uncertainty to Paradox; I never liked that the Abyss worked with such mathematical reliability that you could predict the duration of a Paradox (regardless of whether your characters could predict it). Anomaly seems likely to cause Conditions such as "Is on the Guardians' poo poo list," so that works too! The problem with this though is, do you really want to give out Beats specifically for using vulgar magic? And even more if it's not even in combat (i.e. more likely to cause Conditions instead of Tilts)? I guess if it's a choice between causing Paradox or absorbing the backlash as Health damage, then you can make the argument that the former is more interesting in the same way that dramatic failures are interesting; so the system should encourage it? But I wonder if on the whole it just creates a strange incentive toward using vulgar magic inappropriately. But then, do Conditions work well when players don't have that incentive to find proactive ways to resolve them? I'm almost inclined to say that unresolved Paradox Conditions should subtract an Arcane Beat at the end of a session or a story, and you have to resolve them to break even. (With the idea that people would almost always opt to resolve them, so in practice you're not really losing Beats over it.) Fluffwise, I think it holds up: if you always take shortcuts to solve your problems it'll make you stupid. Also the Abyss eats your brain. Then, say, there'd be several ways to resolve them. You can resolve them immediately by absorbing backlash, resolve them at a roleplay-appropriate time like when your Branding screws up your big interview, or just resolve at any time by saying "gently caress it, I don't care if I cause Paradox everywhere I go" which would be a breaking point for anyone except maybe Scelesti. (Although risking Wisdomtegrity loss seems pretty scary, and might actually be worse than losing a Beat.) McNerd fucked around with this message at 14:20 on May 7, 2013 |
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May 7, 2013 14:06
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McNerd posted:I like it. The fact that Conditions stick around until they're resolves also adds a welcome degree of uncertainty; I never liked that the Abyss worked with such mathematical reliability as "X minutes of Branding under conditions Y." Anomaly also seems likely to cause the Condition "Is on the Guardians' poo poo list." On the one hand, I don't think you particularly need to worry about the beat generation here, in the same way as the standard beats incentivise taking lots of damage or putting lots of conditions on each other. On the other hand, your Anti-Beat idea is pretty cool. I'd probably have them take away Arcane Beats, though, so they don't dip into your standard character growth.
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May 7, 2013 14:19
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GMCish question: So Vampire. We have a list of XP totals in the GMC book for advanced characters. Would you give more XP to elder vampires to differentiate between the haves-and-have-nots, or would you stick to the guidelines in GMC? Personally I'm inclined to give elders a bit more XP (maybe as much as 30 or 40) but I wouldn't want to go crazy with it, any more than I'm apt to give 800xp to an elder pre-GMC. So what sort of XP totals would you give to an elder?
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May 7, 2013 15:27
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Mendrian posted:GMCish question: Certainly as far as mage goes, after 48 sessions and over a year of playing my PCs are at the Gnosis 5-6 and 1st-2nd Degree Master stage, and after conversion to GMC XP costs they're at anywhere between 65 and 90 XP. To make elders who are some of the biggest movers and shakers in their area I'd recommend 60-70 XP, or 50 XP for some of the power players in a city.
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May 7, 2013 16:18
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Flavivirus posted:Certainly as far as mage goes, after 48 sessions and over a year of playing my PCs are at the Gnosis 5-6 and 1st-2nd Degree Master stage, and after conversion to GMC XP costs they're at anywhere between 65 and 90 XP. To make elders who are some of the biggest movers and shakers in their area I'd recommend 60-70 XP, or 50 XP for some of the power players in a city. Thanks for the ballpark. Would it take just as much time to reach the same level of play under GMC? I'm curious how quickly XP accumulates in GMC. I've heard 'about the same pace', but I'm just not sure. I feel like my players could easily generate 2 XP per session (each), playing once a week... that's 104 XP in one year. If 90 XP is as much as you say in GMC, they'd be pretty advanced at this point if we'd been using GMC. I've been giving out 3 XP per game currently using pre-GMC, and maybe the occasional story bonus (so maybe another 20 XP on top of that). They're at around... 170-190 right now.
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May 7, 2013 16:32
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Mendrian posted:Thanks for the ballpark. Well, remember that this is Mage so Arcane XP is in play. I tend to give out 3 normal and 1-3 arcane XP each session, let arcane XP be spent on Arcana, and let XP spent on Arcana also go towards Gnosis. All of those things will mean mages grow quite a bit faster than normal people. My players are at about 220xp under the old system, if it helps. To be honest, looking at the beat gain rules I'd be surprised if players got more than 1 per session, especially if you go with Group Beats.
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May 7, 2013 16:44
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Flavivirus posted:Well, remember that this is Mage so Arcane XP is in play. I tend to give out 3 normal and 1-3 arcane XP each session, let arcane XP be spent on Arcana, and let XP spent on Arcana also go towards Gnosis. All of those things will mean mages grow quite a bit faster than normal people. My players are at about 220xp under the old system, if it helps. Cool, this is really helpful, thanks! As an unrelated aside, I'll be running a GMC one-shot soon (basic mortals). I might let the PCs spend Beats to gain XP during play, but I'm afraid that'll bog down play. On the other hand, if I use Beats to cancel enemy successes or refresh WP, I'm afraid no one will ever use them and Beats will be less attractive. Any thoughts on that?
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May 7, 2013 16:50
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Mendrian posted:Cool, this is really helpful, thanks! Most one-shots it won't be worth explaining XP for, but you could keep the Beat gain condition and allow people to spend individual beats to get, like, +1 dice to a roll per beat. Turn them into fate points or something.
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May 7, 2013 16:59
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Gerund posted:Gonna snatch from the eventual C:tL write-up, but Court Goodwill works specifically within its splat because it has a tangible baked-in benefit; access and empowerment to that court's contracts (magic). Otherwise, having Allies (player grouping) would be effectively the same thing. I get that without the contract access it doesn't do as much, but in a LARP having Allies is a specific thing (During downtimes you have additional actions for your allies, called handoff actions. Which makes buying allies (Mysterium) a bit nonsensical) Basically there's a gap in merits which is kinda status, but not because status implies membership. In small local games it can be easily fixed but in the larger ones it's hard unless it's confirmed in Word of God.
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May 8, 2013 01:35
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So, Dave B posted mage/GMC conversion suggestions at the WW forum: http://forums.white-wolf.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=75916 They seem pretty agreeable to me, though I'd want to playtest the armour rules myself before passing judgement. Unfortunately my group shot down the idea of converting to GMC rules, so it'll be a while until I get to test them out.
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May 9, 2013 00:01
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Flavivirus posted:So, Dave B posted mage/GMC conversion suggestions at the WW forum: http://forums.white-wolf.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=75916 He mentions that all splats will get 10 merit dots, not 7, to spread around, and that you can't swap your Integrity for XP. The other stuff is mage-specific and I'm not equipped to swim in those waters. But on these changes, I can't see any problem with them. Give players more XP and stop letting them explicitly go more crazy for more powers before they ever roll a die.
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May 9, 2013 00:44
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Flavivirus posted:So, Dave B posted mage/GMC conversion suggestions at the WW forum: http://forums.white-wolf.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=75916 That's a shame. I welcome actual playtest reports of these quick-patch armor rules. My players don't get into enough fights.
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May 9, 2013 01:00
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It's really hard to evaluate the effect of the armor rules in and of themselves because spells that increase attributes and spells that increase the equipment ratings of mundane gear are huge confounding factors. Like, speedy armor wouldn't just let you walk around with Defense 15, it might be one piece of the puzzle that lets you walk around with Defense 20. In general, I'm shocked and appalled that the GMC corebook went out of its way to specify that supernatural sources of armor stack with mundane sources of armor, even after it stated so vigorously that multiple kinds of normal armor don't stack with each other. What the hell, you guys.
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May 9, 2013 01:17
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Ferrinus posted:It's really hard to evaluate the effect of the armor rules in and of themselves because spells that increase attributes and spells that increase the equipment ratings of mundane gear are huge confounding factors. Like, speedy armor wouldn't just let you walk around with Defense 15, it might be one piece of the puzzle that lets you walk around with Defense 20. Wait, you're mad that you can't stack multiple armors of the same kind but that you can have one of each kind?
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May 9, 2013 01:18
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Pope Guilty posted:Wait, you're mad that you can't stack multiple armors of the same kind but that you can have one of each kind? Yes...? They shouldn't stack at all. Vampire powers should obviate SWAT gear, not synergize with SWAT gear.
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May 9, 2013 01:23
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I can at least see a certain thread of logic-- it's not like werewolf strength obviates, say, a big loving sword, so why let mundane equipment benefit offense but not defense?
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May 9, 2013 02:04
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Especially in GMC, your Strength score and the size of your sword don't do the same thing. You can and should compare a werewolf's claws to a werewolf's sword, and I put it to you that you should be using one of those or the other, not adding them onto each other.
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May 9, 2013 02:08
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So, what, you're telling me my concept of a werewolf with literal scimitars for claws is unrealistic?
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May 9, 2013 02:44
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Cabbit posted:So, what, you're telling me my concept of a werewolf with literal scimitars for claws is unrealistic?
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May 9, 2013 03:00
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Ferrinus posted:It's really hard to evaluate the effect of the armor rules in and of themselves because spells that increase attributes and spells that increase the equipment ratings of mundane gear are huge confounding factors. Like, speedy armor wouldn't just let you walk around with Defense 15, it might be one piece of the puzzle that lets you walk around with Defense 20. What mundane items raise your defense? Or are you referencing mundane concealment and other environmental factors?
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May 9, 2013 05:01
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Gerund posted:What mundane items raise your defense? Or are you referencing mundane concealment and other environmental factors? Spears and tire irons add to Defense.
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May 9, 2013 05:14
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Gerund posted:What mundane items raise your defense? Or are you referencing mundane concealment and other environmental factors? High Defense really flows out of the ability to boost your Dexterity and Wits really high rather than the ability to ratchet up equipment bonuses. At the exact same time, though, you can make sure to be wearing a suit of body armor that's had its equipment bonus Matter-ed up and then layer mage armor on top of that. It's awful.
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May 9, 2013 05:18
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Ferrinus posted:Especially in GMC, your Strength score and the size of your sword don't do the same thing. You can and should compare a werewolf's claws to a werewolf's sword, and I put it to you that you should be using one of those or the other, not adding them onto each other. Yeah, but it's not like a layer of magical armor on the outside of your kevlar vest magically negates the kevlar.
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May 9, 2013 05:22
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Sounds like mage supremacy to me, mostly. What's the problem?
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May 9, 2013 05:23
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Nick at Nite posted:Sounds like mage supremacy to me, mostly. What's the problem? Having to spend the first part of each day layering yourself with D&D buffs or risking being clowned on by the people who did was stupid enough in actual D&D, much less in a game that pretends to not be 100% about combat
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May 9, 2013 05:27
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Pope Guilty posted:Yeah, but it's not like a layer of magical armor on the outside of your kevlar vest magically negates the kevlar. It's not like a suit of plate magically negates the kevlar vest you're wearing under it, either, and yet the two aren't literally added together to determine your damage reduction. There's no reason to treat someone's armor rating as some kind of ever-accumulating in-character reality rather than an abstract measure of quality, or indeed to set the game up such that kevlar makes any difference whatsoever to someone's crackling force field or destined invulnerability.
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May 9, 2013 05:31
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Dammit Who? posted:Having to spend the first part of each day layering yourself with D&D buffs or risking being clowned on by the people who did was stupid enough in actual D&D, much less in a game that pretends to not be 100% about combat
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May 9, 2013 06:33
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My little wizards: shaving is magic
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May 9, 2013 06:35
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