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Madurai posted:I've begun to sound a little like a sales rep, too--even when I'm not wearing my Tesla shirt. It's easy to do. I'd own a Tesla S tonight, except for that price tag thing. I have a 110 mile round trip commute each day, so there is no other EV on the map (especially here in the heat of Phoenix), but the Tesla is simply out of reach for me. Oh well. Glad to see some of them on the road occasionally, they are gorgeous.
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May 14, 2013 03:10
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The Locator posted:I'd own a Tesla S tonight, except for that price tag thing. I have a 110 mile round trip commute each day, so there is no other EV on the map (especially here in the heat of Phoenix), but the Tesla is simply out of reach for me. Oh well. Glad to see some of them on the road occasionally, they are gorgeous. You could always get a plug in hybrid.
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May 14, 2013 03:16
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Suqit posted:You could always get a plug in hybrid. Part of the perk of an EV in AZ is you get a HOV plate - but only pure electrics qualify for it. PHEVs don't. I'd say the exception is the Karma, but then today I saw a blue plate on a ~25 year old Corolla, so clearly there's not much stopping people from putting them on cars illegally.
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May 14, 2013 04:47
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Suqit posted:You could always get a plug in hybrid. Economically it doesn't make any sense at all. I get 40mpg in my Fiesta commuting, and it's only a $15k car. I ran the numbers on all sorts of hybrids when I got the Fiesta. I'd buy an S because it's sexy as hell, not because it makes economic sense. There are no plug in hybrids that meet the sexy as hell criteria to overcome the economics.  IOwnCalculus posted:Part of the perk of an EV in AZ is you get a HOV plate - but only pure electrics qualify for it. PHEVs don't. That perk would be nice on some days, but most days the HOV lane is just about as slow as the others. There are a number of plates out there from the days of the 'alternative fuel' vehicle fiasco (where people were taking a $5k tax credit to put LNG into their Excursions and then driving them in the HOV lane on regular gas), and those are still legal until the vehicles eventually die. I don't doubt that there are some illegally plated cars though as well. The Locator fucked around with this message at 05:04 on May 14, 2013 |
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May 14, 2013 04:59
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eeenmachine posted:I thought I'd venture into AI today and see if there was any electric discussion and was happy to see a dedicated thread! I've been driving pure electrics for about 3 years and around 40k miles or so. I own a 2010 Tesla Roadster 2.5, a 2012 Nissan Leaf and a 2012 Tesla Model S 85kw. Let me know if you have any questions about my experiences! You should take some pictures of the EV family. I see Model S' all the time here in Seattle but can't get enough. I plan on buying one in a few years when the range is good enough to take me to the mountains and back in the winter time without any anxiety.
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May 14, 2013 05:55
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Apparently, an auto dealership lobby group in North Carolina is trying to push through a Texas-style ban on direct factory sales, specifically aimed at preventing Tesla from doing business.
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May 14, 2013 17:53
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The Locator posted:Economically it doesn't make any sense at all. I get 40mpg in my Fiesta commuting, and it's only a $15k car. I ran the numbers on all sorts of hybrids when I got the Fiesta. For me, the economics work out on the cheap EVs because the lease payment on a Leaf (or the Fiat 500e, in CA at least) is almost exactly what I spend in gas commuting in the Ranger. I end up spending a bit more total after accounting for more expensive insurance and the increase in electric bill, but I'd say it's worth it to not be driving a 15-year-old Ranger. Normally I'd be anti-lease but it's not like the gas is worth anything after I burn it either. My whole concern is range longevity - the Leaf has those very significant battery lifespan issues here in AZ and even though they now have defined the warranty as effectively at least 75% capacity, that could mean that by the end of my lease I'm having to ignore the HOV lane and putter along at slow speeds to make it home. The Locator posted:There are a number of plates out there from the days of the 'alternative fuel' vehicle fiasco (where people were taking a $5k tax credit to put LNG into their Excursions and then driving them in the HOV lane on regular gas), and those are still legal until the vehicles eventually die. I don't doubt that there are some illegally plated cars though as well. Yeah but there's no way that Corolla was sold under that debacle - I remember that, it started a couple years after we got our '97 Suburban and I think my parents seriously considered replacing it with a new one under the program and either breaking even or coming out ahead. The Corolla with blue plates was, at newest, a '92.
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May 14, 2013 18:05
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Ethereal posted:You should take some pictures of the EV family. I see Model S' all the time here in Seattle but can't get enough. I plan on buying one in a few years when the range is good enough to take me to the mountains and back in the winter time without any anxiety. Don't have any of them all together but here are the sexy ones:   My Roadster is the front black one (has black wheels now).
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May 14, 2013 18:25
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IOwnCalculus posted:For me, the economics work out on the cheap EVs because the lease payment on a Leaf (or the Fiat 500e, in CA at least) is almost exactly what I spend in gas commuting in the Ranger. I end up spending a bit more total after accounting for more expensive insurance and the increase in electric bill, but I'd say it's worth it to not be driving a 15-year-old Ranger. Normally I'd be anti-lease but it's not like the gas is worth anything after I burn it either. My whole concern is range longevity - the Leaf has those very significant battery lifespan issues here in AZ and even though they now have defined the warranty as effectively at least 75% capacity, that could mean that by the end of my lease I'm having to ignore the HOV lane and putter along at slow speeds to make it home. I drive far too many miles for a lease to work. I put 29k on the Fiesta in the first year, and it spent over five weeks oof that year in the body shop. There just isn't a lease for people like me who drive this many miles. quote:Yeah but there's no way that Corolla was sold under that debacle - I remember that, it started a couple years after we got our '97 Suburban and I think my parents seriously considered replacing it with a new one under the program and either breaking even or coming out ahead. The Corolla with blue plates was, at newest, a '92. Part of what made that fiasco such a disaster was that it had some sort of provision for retrofitting older cars. People abused the hell out of it.
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May 14, 2013 18:35
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Now we know where all that Tiny Tower money went. On topic: would Leaf battery longevity be an issue in the snowbelt? I know I'd lose range simply due to the cold winter but would I see a decrease in battery life like you guys are talking about in AZ?
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May 14, 2013 18:46
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Well, I wound up Leasing the Leaf SV last night. Not a bad drive. I'm keeping my ICE junker for longer excursions, which aren't that many. Signing up for a ChargePoint card to take advantage of all the stations here in Western Washington. Somewhat excited.
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May 14, 2013 18:48
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Thwomp posted:On topic: would Leaf battery longevity be an issue in the snowbelt? I know I'd lose range simply due to the cold winter but would I see a decrease in battery life like you guys are talking about in AZ? Here's the fifth and final (so far?) part: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...article4406559/ Note the title of part 4 (list of previous episodes near the top of the article) is "Spring sees a budding improvement in range" - he talks about the rather severely limited range he was seeing during winter; pay attention to his description of his driving style, typical daily distance travelled, etc. - he's not exactly an average driver. EDIT: it's 2013! No longer 2012! 
ExecuDork fucked around with this message at 22:32 on May 15, 2013 |
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May 15, 2013 22:26
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Now that the Model S has appeared in the Gran Turismo 6 trailer, I may be obligated to buy the game. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZM-8_N8gcaw
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May 16, 2013 04:07
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IOwnCalculus posted:For me, the economics work out on the cheap EVs because the lease payment on a Leaf (or the Fiat 500e, in CA at least) is almost exactly what I spend in gas commuting in the Ranger. I end up spending a bit more total after accounting for more expensive insurance and the increase in electric bill, but I'd say it's worth it to not be driving a 15-year-old Ranger. I've been trying to figure out if the Leaf is more expensive or cheaper per year than getting a new stripped hatchback for ~$14k and holding onto it. I've tried some back of the napkin math but not really seen proof either way. None of the numbers below include tax, title, any of that stuff. Assuming one drives exactly 12,000 miles / yr to match lease terms, with the Leaf S $2000 down + $200/mo lease you spend $9200 over 3 years to have a car, but electricity will cost about 1/5 as much as gas. A stripped hatchback you plunk down $14k now but pay ~$1600/yr for gas. So at 3 years you've spent $4800 on gas and your car has depreciated ~$5000 but you're not selling it. I think that the cheapest way to do a new commuter car is still just a subcompact hatchback. All these numbers are before tax and you have to assume that you're willing to hang on to that subcompact until it's 10 years old. If you drive way more miles it would tilt it in favor of the Leaf, but then you need different lease terms or you get eaten alive on the mileage. Were you able to get a 15k or 18k mile lease for a reasonable cost? Twerk from Home fucked around with this message at 19:40 on May 22, 2013 |
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May 22, 2013 19:37
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Weinertron posted:I've been trying to figure out if the Leaf is more expensive or cheaper per year than getting a new stripped hatchback for ~$14k and holding onto it. I've tried some back of the napkin math but not really seen proof either way. None of the numbers below include tax, title, any of that stuff. As ugly as they are I'm still big on the idea of having one because I travel less than 20 miles daily pretty much most of the month. But my garage would be a pain to use daily for charging. Also I don't think this was posted but the Tesla is getting lots of accolades: http://www.businessinsider.com/consumer-reports-gives-tesla-s-top-score-2013-5 e: quote:Consumer Reports just published its review of the 2013 Tesla Model S, and it gave the electric car a 99 out of 100 — higher than any other car it has tested.
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May 22, 2013 20:07
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I was getting $0 down / $290/mo lease pricing on 15k miles per year for a Leaf, including sales tax. Accounting for the $25/mo I'd spend in electricity (probably less since I won't actually buy one without having a charger at work, but I'm not accounting for the free electricity there) my total cost to drive a Leaf for 3 years / 45k miles is $11,340, and my out of pocket cost to get into the car is just the cost of getting the charger installed at home. I've got that pegged as $1500 though there's now cheaper chargers on the market than what I was accounting for. Yes, keeping a high-efficiency gasser for a long time is the cheaper option, but in order to get the monthly payment + gas down to the same as where it would be for the Leaf, I'd have to make a significant down payment. Whereas with the Leaf (or the 500e, or maybe the Spark EV) I can turn a total cashflow very similar to what I'm paying to run my Ranger after accounting for its fuel + oil changes + other broken poo poo, into a new car. The real win would be to keep the Leaf long-term, but with the battery longevity issues there's no way I would do that. A lease lets that be someone else's problem. I could maybe see keeping a Spark EV or 500e long-term, but the 500e isn't available outside of CA and there's no pricing on the Spark yet (and no long-term battery info either). Focus Electric just costs too much. IOwnCalculus fucked around with this message at 20:09 on May 22, 2013 |
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May 22, 2013 20:07
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Speak of the devil, the Spark just got pricing of under $28k before incentives - or a cool $19,995 after:Autoblog posted:The Nissan Leaf, the Fiat 500e and now the 2014 Chevy Spark EV 1LT. Three different electric hatchbacks that can all be had for the same low lease price: $199 per month. The Spark even has the same appealing $999 down payment as the Fiat (the Leaf's is $1,999) and both require 36-month leases, so the cost of these two city runabouts is identical, at least at the base level. The one potential hiccup: Chevy says it's a "low mileage lease," and you'll pay 25 cents a mile for each mile over 12,000 per year. Considering these are urban-minded vehicles with limited ranges, however, that doesn't seem like as pressing an issue. For what it's worth, the gas Spark they compare it to in price is the 1LS - the 1LT base price is $13,785, so this is closer to a $6000 uptick than $8000.
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May 23, 2013 08:00
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IOwnCalculus posted:Speak of the devil, the Spark just got pricing of under $28k before incentives - or a cool $19,995 after: The gas Spark is also horribly cheap feeling. My wife and I saw it at the Chicago Auto Show since she was interested but everything was a big step down from our Sonic. The upside is that its extremely roomy for a microcar and actually has a usable back seat (which the Fiat does not). The Spark EV interior looks much better and, since it doesn't have an awful tiny motor and 4-speed transmission, should feel much better on the road. Edit: drat it, release this in Chicago already. We're already one of the biggest markets for the Spark and the state has an extra EV incentive too! Thwomp fucked around with this message at 15:19 on May 23, 2013 |
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May 23, 2013 15:15
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So here's a dumb thing, Fox News' coverage of Tesla does a complete 180 after they start showing profit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcHkIWkecY8 Kinda reflects real-life attitudes towards electric cars, from what I've seen.
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Jun 3, 2013 20:28
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Just got the 3rd row kids seats installed. Now I can't wait for the opportunity to take 7 people somewhere!
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Jun 3, 2013 20:36
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We just took delivery of our Fusion Energi. It has some really neat features; things like adaptive cruise and lane keep as well as park assist (self parallel parking) along with all the other Ford touch and sync features. I need to get a level 2 charger installed but was hoping for my utility to open up their 50% rebate program. Now that we have had the car a few days I want the charger so I guess we'll get that done. I love it so far. It's fun trying to see how far we can go without using any fuel, but also nice to be able to use it if necessary. I should probably take and post some pictures.
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Jun 3, 2013 21:34
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eeenmachine posted:Just got the 3rd row kids seats installed. Now I can't wait for the opportunity to take 7 people somewhere! That is like my dream as a kid. Five point belts??
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Jun 4, 2013 01:55
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That's basically my dream right now. Sit in the back of one of these for a track day or something.
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Jun 4, 2013 02:08
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a glorious hole posted:That's basically my dream right now. Sit in the back of one of these for a track day or something. Hope you're under 75lbs and less than four feet and change!
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Jun 4, 2013 02:30
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We'll be in Massachusetts in less than two weeks and I'd like to test drive a Leaf and Focus Electric. Any idea if I can just walk into a dealer and do that? Or would I need an appointment? Anybody know what the warranty service on a Leaf would be when there's no dealer nearby? We would have to throw it on a barge to either Seattle or Anchorage to find a Nissan dealer, and I don't even know if the one in Anchorage can service electrics. I've seen a few Leaves in town already, though, so obviously other people aren't too worried. We have a Ford dealer who advertises the poo poo out of the Focus Electric - but when I asked, they aren't allowed to sell it have have no idea when/if they'll be able to. Awesome. How does the drive compare to a gasser Focus? At least the charger won't be a problem - we have a giant (500 gallon) hot tub just outside the garage that requires a 50A 240V connection. I don't even think we'll need to have any new wires, just disconnect from the hot tub and put a charger on the inside of the wall. Edit: VVVV Ugh. I'll need to figure out how to schedule time away at a family reunion on the other side of the state. That'll be fun. I was hoping to just pop in on one of the trips I'm sure everyone will be taking to the city. Advent Horizon fucked around with this message at 03:46 on Jun 4, 2013 |
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Jun 4, 2013 03:07
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In my case I could walk in and test drive the Leaf, but I wouldn't recommend it. As it was they only had one charged and the guys there were seemingly at a loss as to how to get it out of the showroom. An appointment would be a better idea.
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Jun 4, 2013 03:16
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eeenmachine posted:Hope you're under 75lbs and less than four feet and change! An Edmund's editor got his nieces in there: http://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-s/2013/long-term-road-test/2013-tesla-model-s-jump-seats.html I asked the obvious question -- he said that bigger girl is 4'9".  e: I bet Nissan dealers in the Boston area carrying Leafs would have one ready to test drive. I see quite a few running around now.
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Jun 4, 2013 04:03
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A few days ago Tesla announced a massive expansion of their supercharger network: http://www.teslamotors.com/about/press/releases/tesla-dramatically-expands-supercharger-network-delivering-convenient-free-long http://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger This summer they're going to hit more major metro areas, have a coast-to-coast path by the end of the year, and nationwide after a year or so. They're spaced so you can go from station to station and get enough charge to go to the next station after 20 minutes. This is what the map is going to look like by 2015:  That sounds like a hell of a way to combat the bad for road trips fault.
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Jun 4, 2013 05:43
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kimbo305 posted:An Edmund's editor got his nieces in there: D'awww, look at the girl on the left, she's so excited 
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Jun 4, 2013 09:04
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IOwnCalculus posted:In my case I could walk in and test drive the Leaf, but I wouldn't recommend it. As it was they only had one charged and the guys there were seemingly at a loss as to how to get it out of the showroom. An appointment would be a better idea. Definitely call first, it is highly dependent on the kind of dealers in the area. There's like four different Nissan dealers here and I went to the highest rated one and they had three Leafs all charged up and ready with one on display 50 feet or so from the entrance to the lobby. Then again the sales guy said people were constantly asking to take them out on test drives. Frinkahedron posted:This is what the map is going to look like by 2015: So jealous. I hope this leads to more quick chargers us non-Teslas can use.
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Jun 4, 2013 15:05
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Frinkahedron posted:A few days ago Tesla announced a massive expansion of their supercharger network: http://www.teslamotors.com/about/press/releases/tesla-dramatically-expands-supercharger-network-delivering-convenient-free-long That's pretty cool but I wonder how practical some of those distances are. I live up in BC and it looks like there will be chargers in Vancouver, Abbotsford and then Kamloops. That trip between Abbotsford and Kamloops is a little under 300km but there are some BIG hills in there... You would be going from Abbotsford (59m) to the Coquihalla Summit (1,244m) then down into Merritt (602m) then up over the Surrey Lake Summit (1,444m) before coming down into Kamloops (345m). That's a whole lot of climbing especially in winter where it would be well below zero and tough on the batteries I assume. Total climbing of 2027m or 6650ft though I guess you could get some of that back from the regenerative braking on the downhills into Merritt and Kamloops. If you make it up to the summits in the first place that is.
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Jun 4, 2013 16:37
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One thing I learned from the Traffic Engineer thread in Ask/Tell is that one of the big benefits of electric motors is their consistent torque output regardless of grade - hills don't affect them nearly as much as they do ICE.
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Jun 4, 2013 18:52
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The Midniter posted:One thing I learned from the Traffic Engineer thread in Ask/Tell is that one of the big benefits of electric motors is their consistent torque output regardless of grade - hills don't affect them nearly as much as they do ICE. The BEST thing about electric cars is that you you can recover energy going back down a hill. Imagine getting the bottom of a mountain with your gas tank fuller than when you left the peak!
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Jun 4, 2013 18:55
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eeenmachine posted:The BEST thing about electric cars is that you you can recover energy going back down a hill. Imagine getting the bottom of a mountain with your gas tank fuller than when you left the peak! I took my hybrid down some hills in Tennessee and cool thing #1 was it was able to use regenerative braking with cruise control to maintain my speed even down the mountain. The second cool thing was that it had to switch to engine braking once the battery got full so that was neat.
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Jun 4, 2013 19:05
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The Midniter posted:One thing I learned from the Traffic Engineer thread in Ask/Tell is that one of the big benefits of electric motors is their consistent torque output regardless of grade - hills don't affect them nearly as much as they do ICE. I have no doubt the Telsa would scream up those hills no problem with all the torque of an electric engine but isn't it killer on the battery? In the particular case up in Canada we're talking about grades of up to 8.5% (maybe steeper?) for extended periods: 
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Jun 4, 2013 19:41
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Suqit posted:We just took delivery of our Fusion Energi. It has some really neat features; things like adaptive cruise and lane keep as well as park assist (self parallel parking) along with all the other Ford touch and sync features. I need to get a level 2 charger installed but was hoping for my utility to open up their 50% rebate program. Now that we have had the car a few days I want the charger so I guess we'll get that done. Am interested in hearing more. Would like a RAV4 EV, but it seems like getting a charging station is going to be a hassle since we live in a condo where the garage is community property. We have a standard 110 in our garage, and work has 6 LVL2 chargers plus another 10 spaces or so with access to 110. Problem is that getting one of those spots requires getting to work very early since there are a ton of Volts and plug-in Prius that have sprung up in the past 6 months.
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Jun 4, 2013 21:07
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Rod Munch posted:Am interested in hearing more. Would like a RAV4 EV, but it seems like getting a charging station is going to be a hassle since we live in a condo where the garage is community property. What would you like to hear more about specifically? The battery range is advertised as up to 21 miles, but Fusion Energi owners are reporting getting as much as 40 miles off of a charge. You have the option to use the high voltage battery (the one charged by the wall) in three modes; EV Now which will use only the EV battery, EV Auto which learns your driving habits and will attempt to use up all of your battery by the time you get home, or EV later which saves all of your battery for when you want to use it. If you have a commute that begins on the highway and ends in stop and go driving, you would use EV later for that. The battery takes 6-8 hours to fully charge off of a standard 110 volt charger where a 240 volt charger will take 2 to 2.5 hours. Once the battery is depleted, or when using EV Later, the car will operate as a normal hybrid driven vehicle. It uses an Atkinson 2.0 liter four cylinder motor for the ICE. It is advertised as getting 100 MPGe and 45 mpg as a hybrid. Of course the numbers you get will depend wholly on your commute and driving habits. My wife mainly shuffles the kids around, does grocery shopping and errands and then to do stuff locally with her friends, so we should be able to use only battery a good 90% of the time. But if we want to take a long trip in the car for any reason, we can do that as the ICE has a range of around 600 miles. And of course you can refuel it with gas
Suqit fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Jun 4, 2013 |
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Jun 4, 2013 21:14
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Suqit posted:What would you like to hear more about specifically? A few things. #1 - How practical is the trunk? #2 - How good is it getting to highway speed? Seems like it's good if you are charged. #3 - How is acceleration on passing? I've heard this is iffy. However, I currently drive a CRV and a 13 year old Integra, neither are powerhouses. #4 - The interior looks pretty nice in pictures, is it the same in person? I haven't ridden in a Ford in a long time and don't have a good feel for the interior quality. My commute is 26 miles round trip, 25 miles of that is carpool lane. Right now my 5 year old carpools with me to daycare which is onsite at work. Come September she starts Kindergarten, and I need to get an EV to avoid the carpool lane unless I want add another 30-40 minutes of driving every day for the next couple years.
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Jun 4, 2013 21:32
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Rod Munch posted:A few things. 1. The trunk space is just fine for what my wife needs; groceries and poo poo for kids. My golf clubs would probably fit back there. It isn't monstrous, but honestly it doesn't matter to us since I drive a Suburban. I have seen pictures of people fitting 3 carry on size luggage bags. The space is certainly compromised by battery, but it's definitely a usable space. 2. The acceleration is just fine. It's not going to win any drag races, but I don't find it laggy at all. If you stomp on the accelerator, the ICE will kick in to help. Even if you don't have any big battery left, the acceleration is fine. 3. I have no idea about passing since the only longer highway drive we have had it on was on the way back from Austin to San Antonio and we just used the adaptive cruise. It speeds you up and slows you down depending on traffic all on it's own, and when we needed to pass we just let cruise take over and do its thing. Once again, if you need extra power it just engages the ICE. But I haven't read any complaints about it anywhere and from my limited driving of it haven't experienced any problems. 4. We have the Titanium trim and it's one of the nicer cars I've owned or been in. Certainly better finished than my fully loaded Burb. Nicer than my Lexus IS 350 I had prior to this. It's chock full of bells and whistles, but that all depends on what trim package you go with. The Energi only comes in SE and Titanium though. Personally I didn't care for the SE, as I thought the interior looked relatively drab and bland, but the Titanium is pretty snazzy. Honestly the difference in price is only around $400-$500 between the two so I didn't really see any reason to get the SE. Plus the only way to get remote start (other than with using the MyFordMobile app) is by upgrading to the Titanium. You also get the upgraded Sony stereo (12 speaker including sub and center channel) with the Titanium and it sounds pretty drat good. As for carpool lanes it's probably best to make sure the Energi qualifies where you live. But that commute you could do 100% on electricity.
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Jun 4, 2013 21:42
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Thanks, that's the info I was looking for. The Energi definitely does qualify for the carpool, at least through mid-2015 or 40,000 stickers are given out.
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Jun 4, 2013 22:22
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