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Wait, but isn't New Crobuzon almost two thousand years old and the center of an empire?! They aren't the sole superpower and might or might not be the most powerful state in the world but more than anyone else they are global players. I never felt like it was a London simile though, from what I've read about Pittsburgh it does seem more appropriate.
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Feb 21, 2013 10:53
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Labelling New Crobuzon as an analogue for a single real city is inadequate. It's a mix of a bunch of stuff. There is most definitely a good bit of London in there but that's not the whole story.
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Feb 21, 2013 12:05
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Although Miéville doesn't have New Crobuzon as the heart of the world in the same way that London was, then it's very much inspired by London, at least it seems so to me. The city feels so old, and so ancient, that I don't feel that more recent American cities can be compared. The thing is built on an ancient corpse, for christ's sake. It's been there forever. London is old, and increpid, and was a lot more industrial in the Victorian era. It had its own gravity, same as NC. But, I can definitely understand where you are coming from, and that extra twist Miéville puts on NC is what makes it its own city, not just a blank ripoff of modern/Dickensian London. Like Mr. Spring said, it's a mixture of several things. I definitely thought the Bas-Lag series was entertaining, so don't misunderstand my previous post. I was perhaps being a bit too obtuse (and maybe obnoxious). What I meant is that I think Miéville is a lot more fun when he isn't trying really hard to be funny. It's enough how hard he tries being witty, which sometimes works and sometimes comes off as obnoxious or pandering, depending on the book and/or reader.
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Feb 21, 2013 12:18
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Per China's bio on the City + City play page, he recently moved to Chicago!!!
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Mar 15, 2013 16:23
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RoboCicero posted:I really do love Dial H. The pacing is a bit weird over the first arc, but I love the disgruntled Canadian government and the dude with time powers who decides to name himself Centipede. I also like Dial H a lot. I think it's one of the best comics today. And look, other people agree: http://www.avclub.com/articles/china-mieville-deconstructs-superhero-comics-in-th,93462/ (I don't think the book is primarily about deconstruction, but w/e, still an interesting write up.)
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Mar 15, 2013 17:45
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I'm almost done with Perdido Street Station and like it pretty well. You know what was ridiculous though? Making the rising action of the climax a 50 page account of daisy chaining an extension cord; ostensibly as an excuse to over-describe the city some more. During this extension cord saga the frog lady waves good-bye, and Derkhan has an internal monologue for way too many paragraphs about how she wishes her well. You think "Okay we get it, finally she's gone". Then the perspective shifts and there are three more pages of the frog lady swimming away (including another long account of how frog lady also wishes Derkhan well), THEN she's gone for real. angel opportunity fucked around with this message at 21:57 on Mar 15, 2013 |
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Mar 15, 2013 21:53
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The protagonist of Perdido St. Station is definitely New Crobuzon.
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Mar 15, 2013 22:05
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The Supreme Court posted:The protagonist of Perdido St. Station is definitely New Crobuzon. Thank you, thank you, thank you. My least favorite parts of Perdido were in the latter half when the city fell by the wayside while Isaac & The Gang were doing stuff. Then, after the action was over, suddenly the book started describing the city again and it felt like I'd returned home.
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Mar 15, 2013 23:38
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New Crobuzon gives Camorr a run for it's money as best fantasy/scifi setting in a long time. I love the mix and mash that goes on inside it, the warring technologies/magics/etc, and the god drat Weaver.
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Mar 17, 2013 05:16
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Curious that we don't know anything about China's next book at this point. Seems like he's possibly going to miss his annual release for the first time in a while.
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Mar 17, 2013 21:57
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Mrs. Badcrumble posted:Curious that we don't know anything about China's next book at this point. Seems like he's possibly going to miss his annual release for the first time in a while. I've been checking Amazon .com/.co.uk, Random House and PanMacmillan websites almost daily since about August  I have an awesome new OP ready to go for a brand new thread as soon as the next book gets announced 
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Mar 18, 2013 03:15
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Bolverkur posted:Although Miéville doesn't have New Crobuzon as the heart of the world in the same way that London was, then it's very much inspired by London, at least it seems so to me. The city feels so old, and so ancient, that I don't feel that more recent American cities can be compared. The thing is built on an ancient corpse, for christ's sake. It's been there forever. London is old, and increpid, and was a lot more industrial in the Victorian era. It had its own gravity, same as NC. But, I can definitely understand where you are coming from, and that extra twist Miéville puts on NC is what makes it its own city, not just a blank ripoff of modern/Dickensian London. Like Mr. Spring said, it's a mixture of several things. As with Ankh-Morpork and Planescape's Sigil, the London influence seems stronger than it is because Dickensian London is kind of our default way of imagining the Industrial Era cities anyway. But the art-y anarchist underground in Iron Council, particularly that puppet play, makes me think Berlin, and the merchant domination and racially divided underclass fits that city better too. (Come to think of it, I wonder if Ankh-Morpork's double city divided by a river status is inspired by Berlin-Cölln) I guess the importance of the train station is from London though.
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Mar 21, 2013 02:11
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Hey dudes, just saw this. http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2013/mar/22/down-sunless-sea-neil-gaiman-short-story edit: started reading it, and realised its by Neil Gaiman not Mieville, doh. Dirty Frank fucked around with this message at 13:17 on Mar 22, 2013 |
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Mar 22, 2013 12:45
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http://vimeo.com/61068358 Super short video of how they staged The City & the City play. Goddamn I wish I could see it 
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Mar 24, 2013 12:58
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I only just found out about TC&TC. I would have missed the signing even if I had known about it, but at least I can check out the play.
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Mar 24, 2013 22:07
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Sargeant Biffalot posted:As with Ankh-Morpork and Planescape's Sigil, the London influence seems stronger than it is because Dickensian London is kind of our default way of imagining the Industrial Era cities anyway. But the art-y anarchist underground in Iron Council, particularly that puppet play, makes me think Berlin, and the merchant domination and racially divided underclass fits that city better too. (Come to think of it, I wonder if Ankh-Morpork's double city divided by a river status is inspired by Berlin-Cölln) Iron Council is pretty much straight up about Rosa Luxemburg in some ways so yeah, it's very much reminiscent of Berlin in that one.
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Mar 31, 2013 23:56
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Mrs. Badcrumble posted:Iron Council is pretty much straight up about Rosa Luxemburg in some ways so yeah, it's very much reminiscent of Berlin in that one. Wow, the last quote in "Dialectic of Spontaneity and Organisation" on her Wikipedia page might as well be its dust jacket summary. Just how much am I missing out on in his books with only a cobbled-together understanding of leftist history?
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Apr 4, 2013 05:02
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22062122 Not actually related to Mieville, but this news story is the most Crobuzon-esque thing I've ever read.
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Apr 10, 2013 20:57
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quote:fatbergs Amazing.
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Apr 11, 2013 05:09
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I really hope he does an adult bas lag novel next. I liked embassy town and krakken and king rat but, I don't know. Bas-lag really captures my imagination. I want to know so much more about it. Maybe something about the Ghosthead empire. Or what happened to the bug peoples homeland. Baslag is home to so many fascinating relics (the island with all the little gears as sand), a back story on anything would be amazing. Also I think i'm the only one who didn't enjoy the City and the City. I prefer wildly imaginative Melville. He's so awesome when he can write without constraints. Umph fucked around with this message at 09:01 on Apr 11, 2013 |
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Apr 11, 2013 08:58
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BigSkillet posted:Wow, the last quote in "Dialectic of Spontaneity and Organisation" on her Wikipedia page might as well be its dust jacket summary. Just how much am I missing out on in his books with only a cobbled-together understanding of leftist history? It definitely informs his work, but as China has said 'if you're going to agitate for world revolution, writing fantasy novels is not the most effective way to go about it'. edit: Just saw this for any London Goons China Miéville in conversation with The White Review Wednesday 15 May at 7.00 p.m. V for Vegas fucked around with this message at 09:25 on Apr 11, 2013 |
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Apr 11, 2013 09:07
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Umph posted:Bas-lag really captures my imagination. I want to know so much more about it. Maybe something about the Ghosthead empire. Or what happened to the bug peoples homeland. Baslag is home to so many fascinating relics (the island with all the little gears as sand), a back story on anything would be amazing. I definitely want more Bas-Lag, and to learn more about it, but I don't want more answers. I want more questions. Getting solid answers to the things you listed would ruin a lot of the mystique and atmosphere that dominates the Bas-Lag books. If he were to do that I'd rather have him stick to his current policy, of not writing more at the risk of making it overdone and stale.
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May 1, 2013 22:11
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V for Vegas posted:It definitely informs his work, but as China has said 'if you're going to agitate for world revolution, writing fantasy novels is not the most effective way to go about it'. I'm going on vacation in London around this time, so I'm tentatively planning to go. Thanks!
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May 5, 2013 00:13
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Just finished Perdido Street Station late last night. It was good and as usual I loved his ability to invent and describe the truly unusual, but as novel I thought Embassytown was much better. Perdido suffered from the way he indulges himself with description, making it 'thick' reading, while this was tempered and refined somewhat in Embassytown. It's a shame that his greatest strength is so easily his greatest weakness.
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May 16, 2013 22:37
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Yeah, for me Embassytown was the book that gave the closest feeling to what I felt when I was reading Perdido Street Station. I agree that while PSS is on my top 10 books it would be better if it was shorter by 20%/25%. However I felt the exact opposite with Embassytown, I wish it was 20%/25% longer. I felt there was still a lot of meat on those bones, if I had my fill it would probably have topped PSS. Since I doubt we'll have a "sequel" a la The Scar I just wish he had showed us a bit more.
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May 17, 2013 00:37
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He has said in interviews that Embassytown may one day be just the first book in an "Immerverse" series. Edit: as recently as last month! http://sfmag.hu/2013/04/30/china-mieville-interview/
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May 17, 2013 00:52
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Hedrigall posted:He has said in interviews that Embassytown may one day be just the first book in an "Immerverse" series. Link is dead. Still, holy poo poo!  e: Never mind, got the cached version. China Miéville posted:Who doesn’t love the sea? It is both literarily and ‘in real life’ fascinating. Though I prefer under the sea to on the top of it. MeLKoR fucked around with this message at 02:34 on May 17, 2013 |
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May 17, 2013 02:27
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If anyone could do a Bioshock novelization...
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May 17, 2013 02:54
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Greg Bear wrote a trilogy of Halo books that were pretty well received. I want Mieville and Alastair Reynolds to write a Mass Effect novel each  and Vinge and Brin and so many others...
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May 17, 2013 03:09
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Just finished the Scar. Every time I read a Mieville book, I come away saying, "This is the last Mieville book I'm going to read, ever." The ideas were fascinating, but Bellis Coldwine's lack of agency drove me insane. She's so whiny and introspective. And then the plot just meandered and seemed to exist for large swathes just to get to the next set-piece or weird monster culture. Really hated it on a plot/pacing level. Bellis' big revelation at the end felt pointless. Most of the book Mieville was trying too hard. His prose can be very good, or it can veer into deep purple. So I'm not going to read any Mieville ever, ever again. Except when I get around to The City and the City and Iron Council and Embassytown and whine about how the monsters were cool but the plot was weak. Why do I hate/love you China why
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May 17, 2013 03:19
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If you are hoping for monsters in The City and The City then you will be sorely disappointed.
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May 17, 2013 03:24
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I read Railsea and I actually found myself enjoying it tremendously. It's striking to me because it ends up being significantly funnier than Kraken without sacrificing urgency like his other YA book (Un Lun Dun).Hedrigall posted:Greg Bear wrote a trilogy of Halo books that were pretty well received.
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May 17, 2013 04:34
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RoboCicero posted:I read Railsea and I actually found myself enjoying it tremendously. It's striking to me because it ends up being significantly funnier than Kraken without sacrificing urgency like his other YA book (Un Lun Dun). VanderMeer is amazing but god drat, I'm reading Shriek right now and it's creepy as all hell. I wish I had a better understanding of his first Ambergris book though...It's a bit confusing and bewildering 
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May 17, 2013 06:09
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Finch was really good, I liked all the stories in City of Saints and Madmen except one, but I couldn't get through Shriek. Ambergris is just as cool of a setting as Bas Lag, but I don't think Vandermeer does as good of a job as Mieville at bringing it to life.
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May 17, 2013 09:13
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regularizer posted:Finch was really good, I liked all the stories in City of Saints and Madmen except one, but I couldn't get through Shriek. Ambergris is just as cool of a setting as Bas Lag, but I don't think Vandermeer does as good of a job as Mieville at bringing it to life. Yeah, I found Shriek heavy going, especially after having already read the much more atmospheric Finch. I did like the style of the narrative, though. Speaking of Vandermeer I found Veniss Underground a singularly disturbing book for no reason I can articulate. It felt viscous, bleak and empty in a brilliant way that I hope to never stumble on again.
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May 17, 2013 10:47
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For anyone who likes Mieville, I can recommend the New Weird anthology that VanderMeer did, it is really good. I tried reading shriek but couldn't really get into it, but I liked Veniss Underground even though it was pretty bleak.
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May 17, 2013 11:13
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For all Bellis's flatness, I felt that Tanner was characterized quite well. I think it's in The Scar where the concept of the Remade went from being a cool idea to a great rumination on former prisoners and their albatrosses (or squid, as it were.) The New Weird collection was also kind of neat for the couple essays it had on what New Weird is and whether or not it's its own subgenre. I really don't know how I'd define it myself outside of "Urban-centered fantasy without the reasons I don't like Urban Fantasy," but most of the authors in the collection are definitely worth a look. I've started to really like Michael Cisco from it, but his books have the Thomas Ligotti problem of small print runs from small publishers. In other Mieville news, for those of you following Dial H, the series is ending in three issues according to various comic news sites. Hopefully this was planned out so the story can actually end instead of being cut off midway through, but I don't know how far in advance DC makes such decisions.
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May 18, 2013 00:05
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There is probably some sort of high literary cleverness in having a translator, who professionally has no agency, and neither hears nor sees, but just transmits as a protagonist. I actually quite liked the external POV from a relatively unimportant characters. Nonheroes watching what would generally be protagonists in another story act is an interesting way to play it, and fits with the rest of his style, where things that would normally get a whole set-piece of action based on their compelling cleverness are just glimpsed from a distance and get a line of description before they are gone. I liked the external-only view of Doul. Heroes doing heroic protagonist things would be poorly understood dicks from an external view.
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May 18, 2013 01:12
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I've currently just started reading the Bas-Lag books, just over half way through Perdido Street Station at the minute. A really fun read overall but I do have a few quibbles with it. Particularly I find his use of italics to emphasise singular words when characters speak to be rather annoying as it undermines the writing and is something generally used to try and pep up pedestrian text. It inflicts a uniform emotional impact and makes it harder for the reader to easily characterize speech individually. I hope he's cut it out in future books.
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May 25, 2013 21:56
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I don't remember that as much later on, but it's still there, and I have to wonder why it was published that way, since it's pretty much a big no in all writing lessons, for reasons that you mentioned.
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May 26, 2013 05:10
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