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Ferrous Ferric
May 22, 2013
Hi there, I made a post in E/N (located here)

A quick run-down, my ex bf has been stalking me for over 2 years, sending me countless messages. He finally showed up at my house (an address he shouldn't know) and demanded that I come see him. Because of this I filed for a peace order.

I got it granted in my favor but it was difficult because I believe he has the protection of a large State University, since he works for the campus police. I know that a lot of people say college police don't mean anything but this is a very large, very influential state university.

The day after I went to speak with the University cops, I received countless phonecalls from one of the detectives telling me that the university wanted me to sign a statement specifically stating that I would not be pressing any charges against my ex. I refused, obviously, but I think they are trying to protect their employee.

Although I have 2 years of proof, the judge only permitted me to speak about events that happened from the date in question (when he showed up at my house), so like events within 30 days. I managed to prove he was coercive and harassing, but it was barely by the skin of my teeth. I believe that because of my ex-boyfriend's ties with the University police, he is able to get judges who might be more sympathetic towards him. He has already somehow managed to get his address off the Public Case Search Records, although I don't know if that's something a regular person (non-police-affiliated) person can do.

Now my ex has filed for an appeal and has gotten a really good lawyer to defend him. I think his argument is going to be that I was actively contributing to the conversation (because I emailed him back, etc) and that it wasn't harassment, I was just as willing to participate, if not the initiator.

This appeal will be considered De Novo, so it will be considered like a brand new trial instead of just reviewing what happened in the previous trial.

I am freaking out and verging on suicidal because of this. I have very seriously thought about killing myself because of this. I can't do this anymore, I've dropped out of school, I missed a lot of work (my boss is VERY annoyed with me), I am afraid to go out or have an internet presence because I am afraid that my ex will find me. Even creating an account here, on SA, is making me nervous.

I am meeting with the local domestic violence clinic tomorrow but I am not very confident in what they can do for me because his lawyer is apparently awesome at his job.

Please PLEASE give me any help you can think of. I have already printed out all the emails and I have labeled and highlighted statements that I think effectively show that I told him to stop, and that he continued to harass me and threaten me (saying things like "do this or i will be loving angry")

Please PM me or reply to the post that I made. I will also be checking this thread, but since there are so many other people posting with problems I am afraid that my post will be ignored...

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WhiskeyJuvenile
Feb 15, 2002

by Nyc_Tattoo
Location?

blank
May 8, 2004
...

Trillian posted:

If the condo was built in 2011 then rent control does not apply, meaning the landlord is allowed to raise the rent as much as they like. I mention it because while your current conflict may be winnable, you're going to have another if they figure that out.

http://www.landlordselfhelp.com/RentIncreaseGuideline.htm

Suggests that the cap of 2.5% applies to any rental, regardless of when it was built.

If my landlord's claim to retake the unit for personal use is actually about putting it back on the market at a higher rate than the cap allows, is it worth my time or effort to offer to pay more than the latest increase? I might be willing to pay a bit more if I can save me the hassle of moving in two months and perhaps give me the time to looking into purchasing by this time next year.

Devor
Nov 30, 2004
Lurking more.

blank posted:

http://www.landlordselfhelp.com/RentIncreaseGuideline.htm

Suggests that the cap of 2.5% applies to any rental, regardless of when it was built.

If my landlord's claim to retake the unit for personal use is actually about putting it back on the market at a higher rate than the cap allows, is it worth my time or effort to offer to pay more than the latest increase? I might be willing to pay a bit more if I can save me the hassle of moving in two months and perhaps give me the time to looking into purchasing by this time next year.

The first bullet of exemptions says:

quote:

The provisions of the RTA that deal with the maximum amount by which rents can be increased do not apply with respect to a rental unit if:

it was not occupied for any purpose before June 17, 1998 - meaning it is either in a new building (often a condominium building) built since 1998, or an older building with a new unit or never occupied, residentially or otherwise, before June 17, 1998;

Seems pretty cut and dry.

Joebungaloe
Apr 3, 2007
Landlord/Tenant Question:

Jurisdiction: Virginia State Court, General District (lowest court in VA), city of Newport News
Case Status: Inactive


Contract for use of premises for business includes rent of $1500 and clause for additional payment of utilities and other direct expenses to the landlord (utilities not individually paid by tenants). Payment of rent is timely and complete, however utilities are not paid up. Landlord accepts money orders, marked "Rent for X month", and uses those funds to pay off backdated utility bills unpaid by tenant. Landlord files under Unlawful Detainer statute to recover rent and evict.

Questions:

1) Is landlord allowed to use payments marked for rent against other unpaid, nonrent expenses owed by tenant? Essentially, when owed two different debts by a single debtor, and the debtor makes payment on one of those debts with specificity, is the debtee allowed to collect those monies against the second, nonspecified debt instead of honoring the debtor's wishes to use the money against the first debt?

2) If the landlord cant use the money collected against a debt other than rent, then there is no failure to pay rent nor resulting late payments on the rent, and there is instead simply money owed for utilities. At that time, could an argument be made that the landlord has improperly brought suit under the unlawful detainer statute (a rent action) rather than a simple civil suit to recover money damages for the unpaid debt owed on the utilities?

VA Unlawful Detainer Statute: VA Code Section 8.01-124

tl;dr: If you have multiple different debts to someone, and you give them a check marked as payment for the first debt, is the person you owe the debt to allowed to use those funds against the repayment of the second debt against your wishes?

Joebungaloe fucked around with this message at 19:48 on May 24, 2013

joat mon
Oct 15, 2009

I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

I think only MD has peace orders.

blank
May 8, 2004
...

Devor posted:

The first bullet of exemptions says:


Seems pretty cut and dry.

I stand corrected.

Kase Im Licht
Jan 26, 2001
Re: Police reports for car accidents

Yes, a lot of places won't even have the cops go out, or they won't bother to do a report, if there isn't serious damage or if no one is injured. Most of the time this really isn't a big deal. If the accident is cut and dry, just take some pictures, get the insurance info and driver info, and go home. Get a personal injury attorney if they give you trouble. There was a local jurisdiction where they would even go farther and we occasionally had trouble getting reports when there were injuries and serious vehicle damage but I don't think it ever affected much of anything. 95% of the cases we got were obvious as far as liability went. All we ever argued over was damages.

The thing about police reports is that while insurance companies do like to see them, and having one that goes against your story is pretty much death for your claim against the insurance company, they're not even admissible in court. If you're at the point where you have to sue a driver/insurance company claiming it's not their fault, it wasn't going to do you much good anyway.


Flippycunt posted:

Ok so update on this:

Since I only have basic coverage and don't have collision coverage my insurance can't/won't go after their insurance for damages. I spoke to the adjuster of the other drivers insurance and he had no interest in obtaining a statement by me, reviewing any of the paperwork/photos my insurance had collected for the claim, or initiating an appeal of any kind.

I deal with adjusters for other types of insurance through my work a lot, so I'm aware of their tendency to make things up if it gets them out of doing work, so my first question is: Can an insurance company really just collect their drivers statement alone and declare it "CASE CLOSED"?

Is my only option to take the other driver to small claims?

Yes, the other insurance company can just say they're not going to pay because they don't think you have a case. You actually have two options, one would be to get an attorney. If one agreed to take your case, that would probably get the insurance company to offer some sort of settlement. But it's possible your case is too much trouble for an attorney to bother, and yes, you'll have to sue. It's not really that hard. If you take some time to research what to do and put together a decent looking case they might offer you some sort of settlement. Or hell, you might get to go to trial and even win! It'll be fun!

Kase Im Licht fucked around with this message at 21:40 on May 24, 2013

Dogen
May 5, 2002

Bury my body down by the highwayside, so that my old evil spirit can get a Greyhound bus and ride

joat mon posted:

I think only MD has peace orders.

So then it's probably going from district court to circuit court, not an appeals court.

joat mon
Oct 15, 2009

I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

Dogen posted:

So then it's probably going from district court to circuit court, not an appeals court.

And explains the 30 day cutoff.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Ferrous Ferric posted:

Hi there, I made a post in E/N (located here)

A quick run-down, my ex bf has been stalking me for over 2 years, sending me countless messages. He finally showed up at my house (an address he shouldn't know) and demanded that I come see him. Because of this I filed for a peace order.

I got it granted in my favor but it was difficult because I believe he has the protection of a large State University, since he works for the campus police. I know that a lot of people say college police don't mean anything but this is a very large, very influential state university.

The day after I went to speak with the University cops, I received countless phonecalls from one of the detectives telling me that the university wanted me to sign a statement specifically stating that I would not be pressing any charges against my ex. I refused, obviously, but I think they are trying to protect their employee.

Although I have 2 years of proof, the judge only permitted me to speak about events that happened from the date in question (when he showed up at my house), so like events within 30 days. I managed to prove he was coercive and harassing, but it was barely by the skin of my teeth. I believe that because of my ex-boyfriend's ties with the University police, he is able to get judges who might be more sympathetic towards him. He has already somehow managed to get his address off the Public Case Search Records, although I don't know if that's something a regular person (non-police-affiliated) person can do.

Now my ex has filed for an appeal and has gotten a really good lawyer to defend him. I think his argument is going to be that I was actively contributing to the conversation (because I emailed him back, etc) and that it wasn't harassment, I was just as willing to participate, if not the initiator.

This appeal will be considered De Novo, so it will be considered like a brand new trial instead of just reviewing what happened in the previous trial.

I am freaking out and verging on suicidal because of this. I have very seriously thought about killing myself because of this. I can't do this anymore, I've dropped out of school, I missed a lot of work (my boss is VERY annoyed with me), I am afraid to go out or have an internet presence because I am afraid that my ex will find me. Even creating an account here, on SA, is making me nervous.

I am meeting with the local domestic violence clinic tomorrow but I am not very confident in what they can do for me because his lawyer is apparently awesome at his job.

Please PLEASE give me any help you can think of. I have already printed out all the emails and I have labeled and highlighted statements that I think effectively show that I told him to stop, and that he continued to harass me and threaten me (saying things like "do this or i will be loving angry")

Please PM me or reply to the post that I made. I will also be checking this thread, but since there are so many other people posting with problems I am afraid that my post will be ignored...
He's going all out because a cop with a restraining order can't do his job because he'd be banned from carrying a gun.
I would strongly suggest an attorney. Are you still enrolled in school? If so, they very well may have a legal aid department that may help you. I'd also try seeing if you local law school(s) have any clinics that may help you.

Class Warcraft
Apr 27, 2006


Kase Im Licht posted:


Yes, the other insurance company can just say they're not going to pay because they don't think you have a case. You actually have two options, one would be to get an attorney. If one agreed to take your case, that would probably get the insurance company to offer some sort of settlement. But it's possible your case is too much trouble for an attorney to bother, and yes, you'll have to sue. It's not really that hard. If you take some time to research what to do and put together a decent looking case they might offer you some sort of settlement. Or hell, you might get to go to trial and even win! It'll be fun!

Thanks, that pretty much echoes my thoughts on the matter. If I gotta take it to court so be it, at least I'll have a shot at getting my car repaired. Also the prospect of potentially embarrassing the other driver when they show up completely unprepared, like I expect they will, is appealing.

As for witnesses: The accident happened near by house and some of my neighbors might have seen something, I was thinking of canvassing the area a bit. Am I allowed to offer anything for witnesses to come forward besides the warm feeling of having done The Right Thing?

patentmagus
May 19, 2013

Kase Im Licht,

I love it when insurance adjusters say the case is closed. Like they have that option. What did happen is that they raised the stakes. The case is closed until they get a court summons or a call from a law office.

Regarding "Am I allowed to offer anything for witnesses..." Don't do it. You can probably compensate them for lost income and expenses related to testifying, beyond that and you're asking for trouble.

Something to look into is one of those firms that advertises on bill boards, radio, etc. They might take the case on contingency. You probably won't recover the full damages amount because the lawyers will take their chunk. Regardless, you might end up with a few dollars you otherwise wouldn't have had - plus the satisfaction of knowing the other side did have to pay someone.

Pastey
Jun 17, 2005
Some old crap, different roll of tissue
Need some advice for a friend who's battling cancer. I just received this email from him and have talked with him about it:

quote:

Do I have any recourse/ What should I do?

I have been diagnosed with stage 4 cancer and I have been selling
wooden apple crates on craigslist to help pay for medicine.

Recently I think I was stolen from.

Here is the story, a lady contacted me and wanted to buy some boxes
(the price is $20 each). She was supposed to come by a couple times,
but was a no show . Finally she emailed and we set up a time, While I
was out, she showed up early to my house, and I wasn’t there but my
daughter was, This lady ending up taking 5 of my apple crates and
only gave my daughter $40. When I got home my daughter felt horrible
like she was taken advantage of , but she thought she was being
helpful to me and she wasn’t sure of the price of the crates.

I emailed the lady and this was here response “

They were not what I expected them to be and I told her that. I even
think that I paid too much. They were dirty and have missing pieces on
them. If you have an issue with the price given to me, then you can
have them back and please give me back my $40. You can come and pick
them up. I drove all the way to your place which is 35 minutes away
from where I live. I can have my husband meet up with you at least
near the exit if you wish.

Just please advise.

Thanks “



What should I do, I’m very sick and cannot meet her husband (even if
he shows) as you can see from the emails she has not been very
punctual. At this point it’s not about the money, it’s the principal.
But What she did was wrong , and worse she did it to my daughter (who
is already dealing with her sick Dad)

This poo poo really grinds my gears. At this point they can't afford a lawyer and don't have pre-paid legal. The daughter who talked with the purchaser is only 15 and had no idea of the agreed price since the lady wasn't supposed to be there for hours. These crates are antiques from the 50's and usually go for $25-35 online so this lady got one hell of a bargain.

I should also mention this is in central Ohio. My first thought was to have my friend call the sheriff of the county where the purchaser lives and explain the situation. Even if legally they don't have recourse (which I suspect is the case), the principal of the matter might inspire an officer to call or drop by. As I told my friend, it's amazing what a personal visit/call from the popo can do for attitude adjustment.


Any ideas or advice would be appreciated guys. At this point he's getting his ducks in a row and basically preparing for the worst, so this kind of screwing over is the last thing he or his family needs. I think he's most upset over the fact that his daughter was caught in the mix and now feels responsible for losing money for her dad's treatment, even though he's made it clear shes not in any way responsible.

Thanks!

Javid
Oct 21, 2004

:jpmf:
Net loss of $60? Not worth the effort of chasing.

Pastey
Jun 17, 2005
Some old crap, different roll of tissue

Javid posted:

Net loss of $60? Not worth the effort of chasing.

Indeed. It's more the principal and the fact his daughter feels like crap from this.

That's why I suggested calling the sheriff or finding a lawyer who wouldn't mind sending a letter pro bono.


Oftentimes the mere threat of a legal hassle will encourage people to do the right thing.

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

Pastey posted:

or finding a lawyer who wouldn't mind sending a letter pro bono.



Good luck.

Lawyers don't usually work for free.

What Fun
Jul 21, 2007

~P*R*I*D*E~
I'm sorry about your friend. IANAL, but I believe the best use of his emotional energy and the best way to help the daughter is to tell her it doesn't matter and drop the issue. If his vengeance still burns white hot, maybe there's something about making a transaction that a minor isn't legally able to consent to? Again, that's crazy conjecture. Probably best for everyone to spend his possibly limited time on something else.

Pastey
Jun 17, 2005
Some old crap, different roll of tissue

What Fun posted:

I'm sorry about your friend. IANAL, but I believe the best use of his emotional energy and the best way to help the daughter is to tell her it doesn't matter and drop the issue. If his vengeance still burns white hot, maybe there's something about making a transaction that a minor isn't legally able to consent to? Again, that's crazy conjecture. Probably best for everyone to spend his possibly limited time on something else.

Yeah, and he already realizes that as well. Thought it worth while to post here since a goon may have an idea that didn't occur to us.

Just really a downer that someone would take advantage of someone with three kids and advanced cancer just to save $60.


Karma is a bitch though.

Trillian
Sep 14, 2003

Pastey posted:

Yeah, and he already realizes that as well. Thought it worth while to post here since a goon may have an idea that didn't occur to us.

Just really a downer that someone would take advantage of someone with three kids and advanced cancer just to save $60.


Karma is a bitch though.

Every time I have sold something on craigslist, the buyer wanted to haggle when they showed up. This lady even offered to give them back. What would a lawyer even do? Maybe you could get one to go pick up the crates pro bono.

ibntumart
Mar 18, 2007

Good, bad. I'm the one with the power of Shu, Heru, Amon, Zehuti, Aton, and Mehen.
College Slice

Pastey posted:

Need some advice for a friend who's battling cancer.

Honestly, if you really want to help your friend, why not just go pick up the crates and get the money back for him? Or have one of his local friends or relatives do it if you live too far away?

I mean, it might be she won't give them back, but she did at least offer. Police involvement seems really premature at this point, not to mention involving lawyers.

Pastey
Jun 17, 2005
Some old crap, different roll of tissue

ibntumart posted:

Honestly, if you really want to help your friend, why not just go pick up the crates and get the money back for him? Or have one of his local friends or relatives do it if you live too far away?

I mean, it might be she won't give them back, but she did at least offer. Police involvement seems really premature at this point, not to mention involving lawyers.

I'm going to offer just that in the AM. Right now as I said he's just more pissed on his daughter's behalf rather than being out 60 beans. I'm pissed because it's one hell of a low thing to do to someone with advanced cancer - much less a close friend of 21 years.

Also, yes she did offer, but she set up multiple meet-ups and then no showed before she finally got the crates. It's at least a half an hour from his place and closer to 45 minutes or an hour for me, but I am willing to go get them. I have a strong feeling (as does he) that there won't be anyone there to meet whoever shows up to retrieve them. A little weird too that she says her husband will "meet him at the closest exit" off the freeway instead of just coming to her house to get them as well.


As I said before, money isn't really the issue. This is beside the point but my wife and I have made it our business to make sure that if his family needs money then we will be there. We can easily supply the money. That isn't the issue.

Let me be brutal - he's a great father and faithful husband who's been with his wife for 22 years and is looking at his mortality in the face. The last thing he wanted was for some jerk on Craig's to involve his daughter in this BS when she's coming face-to-face with the probability of losing her dad. I posted here just to see if anyone else has an idea that escaped us.


It's a poo poo situation and if he wasn't exhausted and not on his game it wouldn't have happened. Now it has and he's feeling responsible. If any of you have lost someone to cancer then I think you'll understand. He's not thinking of himself at this point but of his wife and kids. For this poo poo to happen isn't surprising but just really bad timed and depressing.

I hope that bitch enjoys her crates. :argh:

zzyzx
Mar 2, 2004

I guess it's certainly possible that she's thinking, "and now I'm totally going to stiff cancer guy and make his daughter cry and also get cancer too," but reading that I get the sense that she's just buying boxes off a guy from Craigslist, may or may not have been particularly happy with them, and offered to return them when he asked.

Seems like it'd be easier to go pick them up and give her the money back.

dennyk
Jan 2, 2005

Cheese-Buyer's Remorse
Yeah, it sounds more like the buyer just decided to haggle after seeing the boxes in person and the seller's daughter gave her that price. If it was obvious the daughter didn't know what they were supposed to sell for or didn't want to sell at that price and the buyer browbeat her into it, that would be kind of lovely, but otherwise, from her perspective she made an offer, it was accepted, and now the seller is contacting her demanding more money. She even offered to return them, which is more than fair, and asking the seller to come to her to collect them is reasonable in those circumstances, since he's the one who wanted to back out of the transaction. Hell, unless the seller's ad was something like "Please buy my apple crates so I can afford cancer medicine" or his daughter told her about the situation, the buyer probably has no idea the seller is terminally ill and can't leave his house. It's a crappy situation for the seller, especially on top of everything else, but it's not really fair to vilify the buyer (unless she really did knowingly bully a girl whose dad is dying of cancer into selling the boxes for far less than they were worth, of course).

Pastey
Jun 17, 2005
Some old crap, different roll of tissue

dennyk posted:

Yeah, it sounds more like the buyer just decided to haggle after seeing the boxes in person and the seller's daughter gave her that price. If it was obvious the daughter didn't know what they were supposed to sell for or didn't want to sell at that price and the buyer browbeat her into it, that would be kind of lovely, but otherwise, from her perspective she made an offer, it was accepted, and now the seller is contacting her demanding more money. She even offered to return them, which is more than fair, and asking the seller to come to her to collect them is reasonable in those circumstances, since he's the one who wanted to back out of the transaction. Hell, unless the seller's ad was something like "Please buy my apple crates so I can afford cancer medicine" or his daughter told her about the situation, the buyer probably has no idea the seller is terminally ill and can't leave his house. It's a crappy situation for the seller, especially on top of everything else, but it's not really fair to vilify the buyer (unless she really did knowingly bully a girl whose dad is dying of cancer into selling the boxes for far less than they were worth, of course).

Well a couple of points:

1. She did know he has stage 4 cancer and that this was for meds money. They spoke on the phone multiple times and she no-showed on 4 meetups before this.

2. The price was agreed on weeks ago. He'd sent pics of the crates so she knew what they looked like. The only reason she was interested is because they were antiques. She was very specific that they had to be from the 50's.

3. She did browbeat the daughter. Never mentioned that a price was agreed to beforehand and never said the word "antiques". Showed up THREE hours early and never mentioned that to the daughter as well.

4. As for "returning" the crates - I've already mentioned this. An hour drive to a freeway exit to meet her husband and she's no-showed 4 times? Yeah, right. She had no problem hauling her butt to my friend's three hours early and in person.


Look guys, I've talked with him again and I think he's just going to let it go. Believe me it really is this underhanded and I'm not twisting the facts to the usual whining you hear on the net. This lady knew full well what was going on with him and his family and took the goods and ran.

Thanks for reading guys. I posted this more to help him feel better and on the off chance someone would have an idea. He's calmed down a bit today (for which I'm thankful) and is going to let it go. I'm half tempted myself to set up the meet anyway and let her husband know exactly what his stay at home wife is doing with her time when he's at work.

BonerGhost
Mar 9, 2007

I understand you're upset because it's lousy to kick someone while they're down, but consider a few things. First, it wasn't personal. The woman might be a flake or a scam artist and it doesn't matter, because it's still not personal. 1a. Even if it is personal, most people can't really do anything to you emotionally that you don't allow. Second, all this hurt and anger is redirected from the frustration and fear of facing a serious illness. Recognize that and accept that this is a fool's errand.

It sounds like you guys are all frazzled, and it's easy to understand why, but there is no reward for any of you in getting worked up over THIS. Does $60 come close to compensating a single person involved, let alone all three of you? Think of it this way: you're staring down possibly terminal cancer, are you really going to lose it over maybe $60?

Pastey
Jun 17, 2005
Some old crap, different roll of tissue

NancyPants posted:

I understand you're upset because it's lousy to kick someone while they're down, but consider a few things. First, it wasn't personal. The woman might be a flake or a scam artist and it doesn't matter, because it's still not personal. 1a. Even if it is personal, most people can't really do anything to you emotionally that you don't allow. Second, all this hurt and anger is redirected from the frustration and fear of facing a serious illness. Recognize that and accept that this is a fool's errand.

It sounds like you guys are all frazzled, and it's easy to understand why, but there is no reward for any of you in getting worked up over THIS. Does $60 come close to compensating a single person involved, let alone all three of you? Think of it this way: you're staring down possibly terminal cancer, are you really going to lose it over maybe $60?

Yeah, you're right. We're going to let this slide.


Thanks for listening.

cubivore
Nov 30, 2006

fuck you, got mine
I'm in Nevada.

This doesn't apply to me, but someone in my family works in a nail salon.

Occasionally some customers refuse to pay or try to lower the price/stiff my family member after services rendered, or make bullshit up to try to get poo poo for free (sometimes they actually screw up, but there's some lovely people out there).

What can be done about those people? Can they call the cops? What if the customer leaves before the cops arrive (if possible)?

Konstantin
Jun 20, 2005
And the Lord said, "Look, they are one people, and they have all one language; and this is only the beginning of what they will do; nothing that they propose to do will now be impossible for them.
I doubt the cops will do much other than take a report. This is a cost of doing business, and the best thing you can do is require new customers to prepay if they want something expensive done.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

cubivore posted:

I'm in Nevada.

This doesn't apply to me, but someone in my family works in a nail salon.

Occasionally some customers refuse to pay or try to lower the price/stiff my family member after services rendered, or make bullshit up to try to get poo poo for free (sometimes they actually screw up, but there's some lovely people out there).

What can be done about those people? Can they call the cops? What if the customer leaves before the cops arrive (if possible)?

It is theft just like shoplifting. I suspect you may have shopkeeper's privilege, but I would strongly recommend you speak with a Nevada attorney before trying to detain anyone as if you screw it up you could be criminally or civilly liable.

I actually would expect that the police would show up just like they do for shoplifts.

Konstantin
Jun 20, 2005
And the Lord said, "Look, they are one people, and they have all one language; and this is only the beginning of what they will do; nothing that they propose to do will now be impossible for them.
A difference would be that with services, it is less cut and dry. The customer is probably claiming that the service provided was not as promised, so they don't have to pay. That sounds like a contract dispute, not theft. I'd be surprised if any prosecutor decided to press criminal charges unless the customer admitted that they never intended to pay.

Gounads
Mar 13, 2013

Where am I?
How did I get here?

cubivore posted:

I'm in Nevada.

This doesn't apply to me, but someone in my family works in a nail salon.

Occasionally some customers refuse to pay or try to lower the price/stiff my family member after services rendered, or make bullshit up to try to get poo poo for free (sometimes they actually screw up, but there's some lovely people out there).

What can be done about those people? Can they call the cops? What if the customer leaves before the cops arrive (if possible)?

Sometimes the non-legal recourse can be more effective and easier. Take their picture. Post it on the wall. At a community gathering place like a nail salon, people don't want their picture on the wall portraying them as a deadbeat.

ChubbyEmoBabe
Sep 6, 2003

-=|NMN|=-

Konstantin posted:

A difference would be that with services, it is less cut and dry. The customer is probably claiming that the service provided was not as promised, so they don't have to pay. That sounds like a contract dispute, not theft. I'd be surprised if any prosecutor decided to press criminal charges unless the customer admitted that they never intended to pay.

(anecdotes but quite a few of them) In Vegas the police will come if you refuse to pay for food if you received it. They will side with the business and tell the customer to pay or be arrested for theft, and tell them their recourse is civil against the business. I've even seen them come for people refusing to pay mandatory gratuity for large parties.

That's Vegas though, an economy based on service will probably have a lot more support from law enforcement.

E: That said, it's probably not good for a small, word of mouth, business to have their customers arrested.

Dogen
May 5, 2002

Bury my body down by the highwayside, so that my old evil spirit can get a Greyhound bus and ride
Some places have "theft of services" crimes that cover this sort of situation.

BigHead
Jul 25, 2003
Huh?


Nap Ghost

Konstantin posted:

A difference would be that with services, it is less cut and dry. The customer is probably claiming that the service provided was not as promised, so they don't have to pay. That sounds like a contract dispute, not theft. I'd be surprised if any prosecutor decided to press criminal charges unless the customer admitted that they never intended to pay.

Theft of Services is a separate charge (in my State) than Shoplifting. We see it all the time when they dine-and-dash and when people flee into the bar without paying the taxi, but it would probably cover nail salons if they just straight up refused to pay.

BigHead fucked around with this message at 21:42 on May 27, 2013

Sonic Dude
May 6, 2009
We have a surprising number of "theft of services" reports, considering we're a small computer shop. We just call the police and give them all the info (since we take name/address/phone for everything we do). We never hear anything from the police again, because I'm sure it's their 5947th priority, just behind "keep searching for Jimmy Hoffa."

In terms of getting the money back from the "theft," we have to either decide that small claims is worth it (it's not), or go to a collection agency.

Athaalin
Aug 21, 2003

Did I ever mention that I like it COLD?
I'm looking for a business lawyer in the greater Seattle area and before I go ask the King county bar referral tomorrow I was wondering if any goon lawyers worked in that area or knew someone who did? Despite the amount of friends I have up there no one is familiar with any lawyers and if I'm taking a stab in the dark either way, I might as well see if anyone here can offer a suggestion.

Pygmy Pyrosaur
Jun 29, 2007

Welcome to
Kitty City
Dumb alcohol business question:

What actually constitutes an open container? I have an idea to make a food truck except with alcohol, and I live in a state where open containers are permitted in vehicles, provided that nobody is drinking them (West Virginia). However, it's still illegal to drink on the street. If I got a vendor's & liquor license, could I sell flasks of mixed drinks in brown paper bags to people on the street? Or would this just be all based on jurisdiction, and I could only pull this off in Butte, Montana?

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Pygmy Pyrosaur posted:

Dumb alcohol business question:

What actually constitutes an open container? I have an idea to make a food truck except with alcohol, and I live in a state where open containers are permitted in vehicles, provided that nobody is drinking them (West Virginia). However, it's still illegal to drink on the street. If I got a vendor's & liquor license, could I sell flasks of mixed drinks in brown paper bags to people on the street? Or would this just be all based on jurisdiction, and I could only pull this off in Butte, Montana?

Going to depend on exact state law, which will define an open container. There is no 50 state answer. I'd ask a WV attorney -- which if you're going to sell alcohol you really want to do anyhow because of various liability issues like dram shop laws.

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KillHour
Oct 28, 2007


As someone who does a lot of surveillance builds, I often have customers ask me to design a system involving audio recording. I generally tell these customers to refer to a lawyer, as I cover many states and jurisdictions, and I know wiretapping laws can vary wildly. For my own knowledge, though, could someone explain in a little more detail what you can and can't do, at least under federal guidelines, and in my jurisdiction? (Buffalo, NY)

I know that NY is single party state (As per: http://www.ncsl.org/issues-research/telecom/electronic-surveillance-laws.aspx), but I'm not sure what constitutes consent. Is a sign in the window (implicit consent) enough, or is a verbal or written agreement usually required? What locations, if any, would normally be exempt (prisons, schools, interrogation rooms, etc.)?

Some of the requests I've had for audio recording:

- Interrogation room with a fake "recording" sign that could be switched on and off independently from the system.
- School counselors' office. Apparently some kid threatened a counselor, so they wanted to start recording sessions.
- Hidden microphones in employees' desks. Owner of company claimed that he would make his employees sign forms agreeing to be recorded. This guy wanted recording software to capture screenshots and keystrokes, too.
- At teller stations in a bank that could be switched on in the event of a robbery.
- In psychologists' offices in a hospital. A patient beat the crap out of one, so they wanted to start recording sessions (Yes, this is a recurring theme).
- In classrooms and hallways in schools.
- In convenience stores to prosecute shoplifting.

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