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I can probably sum up what most civvie GiP dudes feel -- I do not regret enlisting ever, but I sure as gently caress am happy that I left. The Post-9/11 GI Bill goes a long way towards making that happen. Just be aware that, while you may have a plan, the USAF has its own and the two of them meshing is entirely unpredictable until you join then start down the path of trying to get what you want. Above all, to make the USAF work for you, you gotta be flexible, knowing when to compromise on something like assignments, TDY's, what specific part of the hospital you'll work is as a 4N, and how to make the best use of your time with what they actually concede to you.
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May 25, 2013 15:33
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As I understand it I can one-and-done and get 100% post GI bill, which doesn't seem like a bad proposition to me. Everyone I've spoken to who has been in the military has expressed the same sentiment - no regrets but thankful to be out and back living the civilian life. I also have family members who are career military and seem to have loved their jobs. I still have some weighing of my options to do before I talk to a recruiter. Thank you for your input guys. Edit: I should add that I really don't mind a lovely assignment so long as I am able to put my skills to use helping people in a clinical setting. I have certs that allow me to do that in the civilian world but I've been having a hard time balancing pre med classes with pursuing clinical work. I figure that putting in 4 years and then being able to focus solely on school would put me on a good track. somnolence fucked around with this message at 17:21 on May 25, 2013 |
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May 25, 2013 17:17
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Go into things expecting that your enlistment is going to be a social and developmental black hole. You might be able to accomplish things, sure, but don't plan on it. Think of it as going to prison, but with benefits when you get out.
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May 25, 2013 17:19
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Vasudus posted:Go into things expecting that your enlistment is going to be a social and developmental black hole. You might be able to accomplish things, sure, but don't plan on it. Think of it as going to prison, but with benefits when you get out. Also count on most private-sector employers not giving an actual gently caress that you served. They'll thank you for your service in any interview, of course, but it has no bearing on if you get the job or not in my experience. Basically, do what you have to do to get school paid for, and do everything in your power to make that happen. Don't gently caress up and get kicked out, pass your PT tests, all that poo poo. Also make sure you have a back-up plan in case you get injured or something during training- this can and does happen frequently.
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May 25, 2013 19:34
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How it was explained to me was that being a vet is the new black so that's the big advantage the private sector gains from you. Diversify your funds, son.
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May 25, 2013 19:47
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Vasudus posted:Go into things expecting that your enlistment is going to be a social and developmental black hole. You might be able to accomplish things, sure, but don't plan on it. Think of it as going to prison, but with benefits when you get out. This holds very true. I believe Vasudus told me this exact same thing when I joined after Christoff chimed to not join at all unless I *really* reeeeeally wanted to. In the three training commands I went to, including boot camp, I made some friends that held the exact same view, and we're still friends even though a couple of them got kicked out for Adjustment/drug related problems. Don't bond to everything, and don't expect to have anyone around. It's a bleak way of looking at it, but, it'll help ease the pain and your own anger when things don't go your way.
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May 25, 2013 19:53
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For the love of god do not enlist in a combat arms job!
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May 25, 2013 21:14
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Vasudus posted:Go into things expecting that your enlistment is going to be a social and developmental black hole. You might be able to accomplish things, sure, but don't plan on it. Think of it as going to prison, but with benefits when you get out. Goddamn I've never seen it this well put before, but yeah- this is the distilled truth of the military. It's just like if you wanted to be a criminal you can expect to do a prison stint.. the military is the middle class working people non criminal's prison stint. Or you can go to college and go into debt and be a debt slave. Either way, in life.. you always have to be somebody's bitch one day unless you're lucky from birth.
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May 26, 2013 14:51
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Can one join the Navy if you're not Filipino? 
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May 26, 2013 15:01
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GAS CURES KIKES posted:Goddamn I've never seen it this well put before, but yeah- this is the distilled truth of the military. It's just like if you wanted to be a criminal you can expect to do a prison stint.. the military is the middle class working people non criminal's prison stint. Or you can go to college and go into debt and be a debt slave. Either way, in life.. you always have to be somebody's bitch one day unless you're lucky from birth. That's...pretty much it and kind of depressing. I don't think my enlistment was as bad as some people here, but it did a lot for me. Nothing beats literally being paid to get a debt free education. Except being born rich as gently caress.
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May 26, 2013 21:08
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As much as I come across as a bitter, bitter gently caress most of the time, with constant complaining, bitching, calling motherfuckers out along with all the stupidity blah blah blah I generally don't mind the Army too much. Don't get me wrong, wherever I've been there's been so much room for improvement in even the simplest things, I have seen units where their poo poo DOES work. Unfortunately this has not been combat arms. Some people are actually doing important poo poo, and important poo poo that really matters. Sometimes not plainly obvious, but some people go to work each day, and do something that makes a difference. Myself, I have never done a single thing in the army that has mattered a single loving iota to anyone of importance anywhere. Literally, in 2 years and change, I have not contributed to anything beyond someone's personal growth or thinking, to the point where if NO ONE did what I did, it wouldn't matter one loving bit. And then in combat arms, you get people who, like me, joined up for whatever dumb gently caress reason (I wasn't a citizen, and thus didn't qualify for a clearance, ergo, ruck that poo poo human being), and become utterly disillusioned and either reclass to something important, or just get out. I pick on combat arms as they are generally who interacts the most with, say, Iraqis and Afghanis. Hang around a combat arms unit and there's ENDLESS stories about how they pelted kids with D cell batteries, poo poo in an MRE bag and gave it to a dude, pissed it gatorade bottles and gave them away, ran over playground equipment in a Bradley just because, beat on some dude because he couldn't speak English, dudes getting shot because a soldier just wanted to see what it was like to shoot a dude, and the list goes on. And then you hang around an intel unit, or someone like civil affairs, and they'll tell you that every little bit of progress that they make some days, gets knocked 10 steps back because some cav scouts or infantry or whatever kicked in some dudes house and beat the poo poo out of the family inside because they got mad at getting yelled at in Arabic. The family happened to be the mayor's family, and now there's no more intel coming from the town, there's IEDs all through the area, and soldiers get blown the gently caress up and soldiers just say "loving hajj". In such an environment, with people who think that learning is for faggots, being a shooter turns you into a sexual tyrannosaurus, and that ARMY PRIORITIES (PT score, remember random AR numbers, looking exactly like the next guy) are taken as the epitome of human excellence instead of the bullshit that they are, personal growth pretty much loving stagnates. Don't expect to broaden your horizons by doing what the next guy is doing. Don't expect to learn anything worth a drat that you couldn't learn anywhere else. Don't expect to get in shape, see foreign lands, or end up with a broadened world view. Don't expect to be or do anything important beyond what the dude in charge of you thinks is important (hint: it isn't important). These things may happen, but probably not. So if you want to join the military, pick up a loving cushy smart guy job. Get your clearance, get some training like languages or cyber poo poo that looks and pays fantastic on the outside. Use tuition assistance (if it's still around) to work on your college. Prioritize your life and not army garbage. Pass your PT test. Go to a promotion board if you must and remember some dumb poo poo that will not matter the next day. Keep your gear clean. And that's it. Any priorities that you pick up in the military pale in comparisons to real priorities that you learn in life. Anyone who says otherwise and spouts poo poo like "you're a soldier 24/7" you should stay well the gently caress away from if you can because they are stupid enough to be loving dangerous. If someone says that they signed up for the GI Bill, they are probably a reasonable dude. If someone signed up because they said they wanted to serve their country, and they believe it a couple of years in, this person is probably a fuckin' maniac. You'll either find a nice balance between life and the military and do your 20+, or you'll get out after a brief stint and pick up some sweet benefits and you'll get some free college, and some bucks to go along with it. The military isn't a life, or a lifestyle, or anything of the sort. It's a job. Some days shittier than the shittiest job ever, some days it's pretty good. If you're looking for a lifestyle become a fuckin' vegetarian and take up yoga or some poo poo. You join the military because they have something that you want, and you have to sign up to get it. That should be your only reason. Sentimentality, tradition, an imaginary obligation, the idea that you will "grow as a person", none of these factors should come into such an important decision as "going to prison" as GAS CURES KIKES put it (accurately). Because it is a prison. And you are a servant. You will statistically only end up worse off when you get out compared to when you got in, but now you've lost 3+ years of your life. Think loving hard about what it really means to stop your evolution as a consciousness in it's tracks.
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May 26, 2013 21:57
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I'm also on a krispy kreme sugar high right now but if I wasn't in I could be dropping acid instead.
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May 26, 2013 21:58
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not caring here posted:As much as I come across as a bitter, bitter gently caress most of the time, with constant complaining, bitching, calling motherfuckers out along with all the stupidity blah blah blah I generally don't mind the Army too much. Don't get me wrong, wherever I've been there's been so much room for improvement in even the simplest things, I have seen units where their poo poo DOES work. Unfortunately this has not been combat arms. Some people are actually doing important poo poo, and important poo poo that really matters. Sometimes not plainly obvious, but some people go to work each day, and do something that makes a difference. 
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May 27, 2013 00:36
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not caring here posted:I'm also on a krispy kreme sugar high right now but if I wasn't in I could be dropping acid instead. Amen to that, and the wall of words.
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May 27, 2013 01:11
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fuckin legit advice imo!
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May 29, 2013 02:26
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I'll go ahead and chime in here to kind of add a different perspective to what people here have characterized as their "military experience." Okay, I'm not going to bullshit. I completely agree that it's in many many ways a prison sentence. But I think there's more to the psychology of this than people really realize. I'm sort of this unique loving unicorn that actually believes in the idea of service to the country as more than a punchline in the military, while still maintaining my perspective and not getting this inflated ego about it from the jingoistic multitudes in civilian America. The unfortunate reality is that the contracting industry that has blossomed up around the military and in the wake of two concurrent wars has, in my view, caused a really concerning "brain drain" at the upper levels. Most of your "lifers" are, in actuality, those who weren't good enough at their jobs (or savvy enough) to leave the military at the 8-12 year mark to accept a lucrative contract job making five times what they make "inside" doing the same loving thing for fewer hours. By and large, these people are the ones who will be making the decisions at the upper echelons of military power. You do get the rare loving unicorn who stays because he honestly believes in The Mission and is also as competent as his rank implies. Most of the time, and I'll draw the analogy for the Marine Corps (since that's where I was), they're just people who were able to do 20 pull ups well into their thirties and survived a tour on drill instructor or recruiting duty or what-the-gently caress-ever while they tacked rockers onto their collar. The military is what you make it. You're not going to get a "broadened worldview" just from visiting Afghanistan or Japan or Germany or where-the-hell ever, or from watching powerpoint presentations at whatever high-speed MOS training school (like DLA) you manage to con the recruiter into sending you to. You'll get it from viewing the world broadly. The military will give you a chance to view the world. That doesn't mean that they will majick understanding into you in so many ELOs and TLOs, because most people in the military took that opportunity to view the world and chose to use it to throw D-cell batteries at kids while on patrol in Khandahar. People are right when they say to go get a "smart guy" job, and I roll my loving eyes every time a grunt flexes his PFT score as though his twenty pull ups will mean a loving thing when he runs like hell from the service after his four year stint into a lovely junior college, where he's going to get an AA degree in criminal justice and a 1.8 GPA. Get the smart guy jobs, because you'll at least leave the military with some modicum of technical aptitude in loving something. The thing to take away from this: a desire to serve is not a horrible thing. Be realistic about your goals, and think about yourself and what you want to do, but don't think you're a loving jackass because deep down inside, you're okay with putting up with a giant load of bullshit in the faint hope of making a positive dent in this country. Service is not in vogue these days. Our culture is obsessed with celebrity and salary, and public servants are seen as the scum of the loving Earth who could not make it in the "real world." By and large this is true. It doesn't need to be true for you.
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May 29, 2013 05:31
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the shittiest part of the army is the people you work with, not the job you do. i know infantry dudes that have loved their job because their command teams just sort of line up with really great or at least not terrible people and make sure poo poo's alright, and then i know people in ~*~intelligence~*~ units that hate their lives because everyone top to bottom is a huge loving prick.
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May 29, 2013 06:30
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not caring here posted:Think loving hard about what it really means to stop your evolution as a consciousness in it's tracks. Everyone who's posted in response to what I asked has offered a very unique perspective to joining the military the likes of which I haven't seen before. It's very clear to me now that the military isn't something that you should jump into in a hurry before really weighing your options and fully considering the ramifications that it may have on your life the moment after you've signed it away to the government. I suppose the main consideration that I'm facing after reading everyone's thoughts on joining is whether the educational benefits that are offered are really worth putting my entire life on hold for 3-6 years. I have a prior conviction for possession of  and I feel like that would put me at the mercy of the recruiters as far as job selection, etc. I have ~real world skills~ in healthcare and IT that I can utilize to stay employed and a decent safety net built around me even though I'm not currently living in my home town. I've bought my textbooks for next quarter already, so I will be putting off this decision for a while longer. At this point I feel like I will probably not join the military unless my financial situation becomes extremely desperate to the point where I'm literally unable to pay the combined costs of living here on top of tuition. The idea of giving up what control I have over my life to people who value pull ups so much doesn't sit too well with me. Thanks again for the responses everyone.
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May 29, 2013 08:15
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Hey guys, I was thinking about trying to do a cross-service transfer from the USAF to the USMC. I feel like I could be doing a lot more for my country if I put myself in the line of duty, and after being in the AF for a few years, I don't think that I am really doing all that I can do for the country. I was looking at enlisting with the MOSes 0317 or 0321. I want to be able to have good stories to tell my military buddies when we're kicking back a few beers after a tough week. Being a cyber warrior currently, I either can't tell the stories I have, or they're so boring nobody wants to hear them.  I think that some of my party stories might ring true with the crew though, like this one time I almost got with this M-F Transsexual woman... Oh man she was good looking but after I saw the bulge, I had to bolt!!! I showed up about four hours later and thankfully she hadn't taken any of my money or things though, hahahahah!!!! Or, maybe that one time that I was dating a porn star.. Oh man. I have some good stories.I have a couple of medical issues currently, but since I'm already in the service they shouldn't be a problem. I have a bit of PTSD and don't really like things that remind me of the 'stan... Garbage piles on streets really set me off, and I try to avoid crowds as much as possible. If anyone has any information or stories to add, I'd love to hear em! I heard you guys even have your own genuine MARSOC marine scout sniper here, that's where I'd want to end up eventually!! Hoorah and Semper Fi!!
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May 29, 2013 22:16
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DrCuntmuffins posted:I want to be able to have good stories to tell my military buddies when we're kicking back a few beers after a tough week. Assuming this is a serious post, this would be a lead indicator that you're making this decision for the wrong reasons. edit: and now I just saw the IDR thread and understand squelch fucked around with this message at 02:00 on May 30, 2013 |
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May 30, 2013 00:03
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DrCuntmuffins posted:
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May 30, 2013 00:09
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So, I'm back and being dumb - I went to see a regular recruiter just to talk about enlisting options, since the officer recruiter I'm talking to has gone silent for multiple weeks (and I believe is avoiding my calls. I'm a terribly annoying person.) This is the first time I've seen a regular enlisted recruiter, and she was giving me all of the lines in the book on trying to sell me on becoming a 'Nuke'. I know a majority of it was bullshit, so I'm going to list off the lines she gave me, for Goons to 'correct'. "After 18 months of training the courses, due to how hard it is, you'll be about 6 to 9 credits off of getting your bachelor's degree" "You'd easily hit E-5 within six months of finishing your training, which is where I am after four years." "After you went in and served two years post the 18 months of training, you'd be able to get re-signing bonuses for up to $90,000." "Even after you'd left the military, due to the training being so expensive for private companies, you'd easily make six figures in a year." I'm pretty much assuming that 90% of what the recruiter says is bullshit.
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May 30, 2013 05:32
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quote:"After 18 months of training the courses, due to how hard it is, you'll be about 6 to 9 credits off of getting your bachelor's degree" False. No (legitimate) school in the universe would accept that much military training for a real degree. Ket has a "Nuclear Technology" degree from a diploma mill school that he doesn't even list on his resume. He's getting a real degree now. quote:"You'd easily hit E-5 within six months of finishing your training, which is where I am after four years." Kinda true. Nukes do promote differently but so what. quote:"After you went in and served two years post the 18 months of training, you'd be able to get re-signing bonuses for up to $90,000." True, but you probably won't want to do it. Assuming you've made it past your initial enlistment and you're eligible for a reup you're probably going to hate the Navy with every fiber of your being. There's a reason the bonus is so high. quote:"Even after you'd left the military, due to the training being so expensive for private companies, you'd easily make six figures in a year." False. You might be able to get a pretty okay job with a real engineering degree in addition to your military experience. Not six figures, at least not to start, just like almost any career field. Read the nuke thread in this very forum. Please. It'll open your eyes.
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May 30, 2013 05:41
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Nuke: Take a reasonably intelligent/creative person and put them in a box with a mundane task for 12 hours a day. Ask your recruiter why the nuke suicide rate is so high. Go intel. Become a CT. Enjoy a sweet M-F job at a shore command.
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May 30, 2013 05:51
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Vasudus posted:False. No (legitimate) school in the universe would accept that much military training for a real degree. Ket has a "Nuclear Technology" degree from a diploma mill school that he doesn't even list on his resume. He's getting a real degree now. So, would the schooling I do be generally useless for anything college wise? Or simply not 'that much'? quote:Kinda true. Nukes do promote differently but so what. What does promoting differently mean? I just want to make my hometown proud  quote:True, but you probably won't want to do it. Assuming you've made it past your initial enlistment and you're eligible for a reup you're probably going to hate the Navy with every fiber of your being. There's a reason the bonus is so high. Legitimately hate, or goon hate? Because the two can be different in my experience, and if it's the former I'll just say I'm not interested. quote:Read the nuke thread in this very forum. Please. It'll open your eyes. Edit: Will do. Edit2: quote:Nuke: Take a reasonably intelligent/creative person and put them in a box with a mundane task for 12 hours a day. Ask your recruiter why the nuke suicide rate is so high. This definitely does not sound like the kind of job I want to do then. Suicide is not what I want to leave the military having done. I have literally no info on intel or CTs or anything of the like, can you elaborate?
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May 30, 2013 05:56
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Listen man. The military throwing gobs of money at you for a re-enlistment is a sign that A. your job is loving miserable or B. you're flirting with death much more than the average guy.
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May 30, 2013 05:59
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Before Ket comes in here acting like it was literally the holocaust I'll say that yes, nuke is a stupid idea and there are much better routes for smart people. Please listen to people that tell you stuff like intel.
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May 30, 2013 06:06
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The military seems to have this mass illusion that any college degree is better than no college degree. Except that the real world does not work remotely like that, especially for things like engineering. They don't see that a school that magically accepted 100+ credits isn't legitimate outside, nor do they care. Simply put, anybody currently in the active duty environment likely has no idea what it's like to get a real job in the outside world. Nukes promote faster, which shouldn't be a thing that decides if you're going to take the plunge. At best, it's a fringe benefit. Remember that the military is basically a trick; they aren't out there looking at your well being when they offer these sort of incentives. It's because of one of two reasons: it's either impossibly hard to staff due to a high skill requirement, or it's impossibly hard to staff because it's a miserable job. Nuke positions are the lucky winners and are both - they are extremely hard to pass in school AND are generally terrible, terrible jobs. I'm not trying to stray you away from serving, just trying to point you into a field that won't make you consider suicide AND you might walk out of it with some actual useful skills. ninja edit: beaten twice, gently caress. This is why you don't watch movies and post at the same time.
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May 30, 2013 06:08
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Vas was not a nuke but said it basically perfectly, so listen to that
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May 30, 2013 06:11
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That's what happens when you have to read every single post in the nuke and navy thread. I still don't know what half the loving lingo means but whatever.
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May 30, 2013 06:12
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^^^ Did you black out like Will Ferrell did during the debate scene in Old School? I like to think you did. This goes for anyone thinking about enlisting: the goal is to strike a balance between awesome loving job and a jumping off point to a pretty good civ career. Favor whatever the hell you want, but don't take a poo poo job that's got a sick rear end security clearance that puts you in the most awful locations because it'll pay off 4 years down the road. Guess what man? You gotta survive those 4 years and being a miserable, lowly E-1 thru 4 jobbing out a grim soul-crushing job like security forces at Canon AFB, New Mexico is a fast track to a terrible, lasting regret of life decisions. Balance fun and work with whatever you sign up for. It's possible and it happens.
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May 30, 2013 06:14
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Ironically I was probably in the prettiest navy base in the continental US heh
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May 30, 2013 06:15
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Can anyone give me some basic info on Intel and what I can expect if I talk to my recruiter about it? It sounds neat, but I'm dumb and don't trust 'official' websites to give me the reality.
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May 30, 2013 06:24
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KittyEmpress posted:I have literally no info on intel or CTs or anything of the like, can you elaborate? It's a pretty diverse field. You've got your linguists (self-explanatory, they speak Russian, etc), your signals people (think intercepting radio/satellite/etc communications), your image analysts (aerial photography, powerpoint presentations), and your network specialist (computers and internet). There are also the people who maintain the equipment used by the community, and special forces who can draw from anywhere in the community. CT is the Navy rate, its specialties (which I kind of broke down above) are CTI, CTT, CTR, CTN, and CTM. There are also IS's which are also intel but not considered Cryptologic Technicians. I should point out, the entire Crypto descriptor comes from back in the old days of cracking enigma and sending morose code and what not. In any case, you're likely to find an analog to any of the branches.
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May 30, 2013 06:28
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My sister is a CTR and has deployed twice. Now she's working 3 days on 2 off with 12 hour shifts on the work days. Please read the Navy Nuclear Propulsion thread before deciding to become a nuke. Someone said it best: if they promote someone super fast and offer insane bonuses it's either cause the job is so incredibly miserable and difficult to actually get, or you're at an extreme risk of death. The highest people across the board for reenlistment bonuses are navy nukes and special ops. Draw your own conclusions as to which is which. Honestly, though, the navy does have a lot to offer. I got a bachelors on the navy's dime while still getting paid. We've all been all over the world. The saying "choose your rate, choose your fate" will be echoed your entire navy career. Be very judicious in deciding the specific job you actually want to do.
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May 30, 2013 06:58
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somnolence posted:Everyone who's posted in response to what I asked has offered a very unique perspective to joining the military the likes of which I haven't seen before. It's very clear to me now that the military isn't something that you should jump into in a hurry before really weighing your options and fully considering the ramifications that it may have on your life the moment after you've signed it away to the government. If you've got another viable option in the civilian world, go for that. The military will wait (unless you're creeping up on 30 and we stop fighting wars entirely). quote:I suppose the main consideration that I'm facing after reading everyone's thoughts on joining is whether the educational benefits that are offered are really worth putting my entire life on hold for 3-6 years. I have a prior conviction for possession of The infantry isn't so bad if you have a sense of humor, and in my experience the easiest way to discourage people from being inhumane assholes is to do anything at all about it, but a lot of guys, understandably, don't like sticking their necks out. When you're dealing with 18-21 year old guys, it's rare that anyone actually drops their guard long enough to buck a trend. Most guys aren't assholes, but they assume everyone else is an rear end in a top hat, interpret that as an expectation, and act accordingly. You'd be surprised how far acting like a big boy will get you in the infantry- PFT ain't everything.
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May 30, 2013 07:29
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Mr. Nice! posted:My sister is a CTR and has deployed twice. Now she's working 3 days on 2 off with 12 hour shifts on the work days. Yea, CTRs tend to end up on a lot of shift work. It all depends on what command you get assigned and what shop you get put in. It's got to be better than chipping paint or being a nuke though.
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May 30, 2013 11:12
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My university accepted a bunch of my military experience as college credit, but it all ended up being 100 level credits that don't do me any good - even toward general electives. I guess maybe if I was getting a military science degree but no thanks. What actually helped was the CLEP exams I took while in the military (which are free), because it ended up dropping 9 credits worth of gen-ed stuff. As a nuke, the only time I could do these is when I was away from the boat, which happened a total of once. I'm sure you could have an impressive array of college credit from CLEP exams if you both make an effort to take the exams, and not choose nuke. If your recruiter is still trying to push you into it ask for another recruiter or something. A bonus is pretty super but ultimately doesn't matter at all. Reenlistment bonus only matters if you're a lifer. $90,000 doesn't mean anything if you're poo poo with your finances, if anything it will make you less responsible with money.
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May 30, 2013 14:49
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Can you even major in military science? I thought it was only a minor.
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May 30, 2013 15:41
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I worked with CTNs in Afghanistan. After I was done giving them poo poo for being Navy in a land locked country their job seemed to be really cool and pretty close to what I did as an Army 35T and I constantly recommend 35T as a good career choice.
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May 30, 2013 16:33
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