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Is it possible to start as a character below a count?
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May 30, 2013 05:42
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Econosaurus posted:Is it possible to start as a character below a count? No, barons aren't playable.
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May 30, 2013 05:43
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Started with a ruler-designed character in Svitjod, created Sweden in 891 and his son, Torbjorn, managed to ride the succession even though he got a grand total of two counties while his half-brother got four. Then Denmark tried to conquest him so he used daddy's raiding money to hire some mercenaries and beat them back, and then counterconquested. Was imagining the horror of the succession a combined Denmark and Sweden would create, and decided I was going to reform to escape the terrors of Gavelkind. Got all the guys together and went on a ten-thousand man, 300-boat grand tour through Europe to collect enough Piety and filthy lucre to get the job done, and over 2500 gold later I landed in Lotharingia to snatch Zeeland from them with 26000 troops in 918, including literally every mercenary in Europe who would take my calls. They called in West Francia and I must have chewed through sixty thousand or so Christians before they finally gave up. State of the world in 922:   Do I even need to tell you that Scotland is Ivar the Boneless' ancestors? I'm just glad that the current King of Scotland converted to Reformed Norse. He's still on Gavelkind and he has five sons so it's going to be magical when he keels over. Hope it's soon, I've started wandering as far as Africa just to have someone to raid who doesn't drop doomstacks on me constantly. Edit: GigaScotland's ruler just died and his heir is incapable 
Tehan fucked around with this message at 08:21 on May 30, 2013 |
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May 30, 2013 05:50
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Erm, I called a Great Holy War against the German queen and for some reason my only allowed targets were Hungary and Frisia? Any good reason why this would be? She owns a hell of a lot more than that, and I wanted to take Brunswick as the Bishopric of Paderborn in it is the only Norse holy site I have left to take. I'm Norway and have spot on 40 holdings.
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May 30, 2013 06:02
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Mister Adequate posted:I just spent a century uniting the Empire of Britannia as the heirs of Ragnar Hairy-Breeks based in Jorvik (edited the file so Norse can make the empire because loving gavelkind would rip the kingdoms apart every time I died otherwise), but that's not the story here. "The Liberator" is the title that peasant rebel leaders get when they successfully revolt. So to make the story even better, this guy was probably just a minor noble or merchant who just happened to really excel at every aspect of leadership. That's rad as hell.
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May 30, 2013 06:17
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Pakled posted:"The Liberator" is the title that peasant rebel leaders get when they successfully revolt. So to make the story even better, this guy was probably just a minor noble or merchant who just happened to really excel at every aspect of leadership. That's rad as hell. In my Ivar the boneless game, the count of dublin single-handedly took Ireland one provinces at a time due to pagan CBs. When I got voted out of the kingdom of scotland, the new king had to deal with a liberation revolt in Ireland and failed badly. Cue united Ireland in 956. Whats worse was they were Catholic and kept holy warring Scotland until I took my kingdom,back and took Ulster from them to cripple them. So now i have a modern border Ireland 1000 years early.
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May 30, 2013 07:07
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So I just had a civil war to lower crown authority that I couldn't win because the loving Scots were sitting on two counties. I had 100% warscore, but because they occupied a few holdings, I couldn't win, I couldn't hire enough mercenaries being Norse. Was that a recent change? Because I can't declare peace, I can't force my rebelling vassal to declare peace for the meaningless territories they're holding, and I can't muster the manpower to force the Scots out of my territory because of the civil war.
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May 30, 2013 07:15
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Hammy posted:Newbie question: I have a Duke with a claim on the Kingdom of England, if I press it and win does he remain my vassal or does he become the independent King of England? If he becomes independent what happens to the duchy he already controls? If you are not an Emperor, he will become an independent King if you press his claim, and I believe his duchy in your realm stays under his control.
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May 30, 2013 07:18
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hellsjudge posted:If you are not an Emperor, he will become an independent King if you press his claim, and I believe his duchy in your realm stays under his control. This plus England needs to be de jure part of whatever empire you are, or The duke in question needs to share your dynasty.
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May 30, 2013 07:23
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Three Quick Questions: 1. Is Mali (and other West Africans, I guess?) supposed to be able to have ultimogeniture? It makes holding the realm together way easier than it is for the Norse. 2. Does the AI actually know how the pagan defense bonuses work? Lower Fez starts West African, and I've pretty much bled out 20,000 men who suicidally charged into my sieging army. I conquered to the pillars of Hercules easily despite having less than 1/20th of the muslim's levy. 3. Why is one of the "West African" holy sites all the way over in Tunisia? 
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May 30, 2013 07:29
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Don't know for the first 2, but for the third: Holy sites for all unorganized religions are a mix of more local holy areas and sites that would be considered supremely important conquests, if they were to happen. The idea is gameplay mechanic related. To reform your religion and become the new head of the religion, you're going to need to either have a united religious homeland or have some important areas at home and then do some crazy conquering and build victory temples at some important locations.
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May 30, 2013 07:48
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Yep, all pagan religions have stuff like that. Norse Paganism has an German temple 3 provinces inland and like 4-5 provinces away from the nearest Norse religion province as one of its holy sites.
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May 30, 2013 07:51
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Hazmat Sam posted:2. Does the AI actually know how the pagan defense bonuses work? Lower Fez starts West African, and I've pretty much bled out 20,000 men who suicidally charged into my sieging army. I conquered to the pillars of Hercules easily despite having less than 1/20th of the muslim's levy. The AI doesn't understand terrain or bonuses/penalties. Its why it'll gladly cross a straight into your waiting armies over and over.
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May 30, 2013 07:57
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Pakled posted:Yep, all pagan religions have stuff like that. Norse Paganism has an German temple 3 provinces inland and like 4-5 provinces away from the nearest Norse religion province as one of its holy sites. It's one province inland.
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May 30, 2013 07:58
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So, how do you even do prepared invasions anyway? Also, I reformed the Norse faith, how do you do Viking Pope stuff like call holy wars?
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May 30, 2013 08:00
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JT Jag posted:So, how do you even do prepared invasions anyway? To prepare an invasion, you have to have between 9 and 40 provinces, and you have to choose a non-Norse (dunno if it has to be Christian or if you can do it to other pagans and Muslims too) target that has a title with 9 to 40 provinces associated with it. "Prepare Invasion" will appear on the diplomacy menu for the character you want to invade. Someone earlier in the thread did some digging in the files and found that Great Holy Wars can't be activated until 1100.
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May 30, 2013 08:01
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The attrition thing seems really bizarre and potentially broken. By the year 1000, quite a few of the unreformed pagan lands have supply limits significantly lower than their garrisons, which makes them amazingly defensible - I'd rather take on a kingdom five times the size, personally, than contend with sieging a province with a supply limit of a thousand troops. Or the worst one I see right now - a supply limit of 780, and a garrison of 1600. Sheesh. I can't tell when it's supposed to away, either. Military organization 4 says it removes the pagan homelands attrition penalty, but I currently have organization 7 (in 1123!) and still see the penalties in Romuva, Slavic, and Suomenusko provinces. I don't see it, however, in west african provinces, which...hm. The in-game description says it also has the attrition thing, but it doesn't have it in the code, so I guess that explains that. What I'm afraid of - what I suspect - is that it only takes away the attrition when the province in question gets to military organization 4, which could be very late indeed, and means that you as the attacker have essentially no control over it. Strudel Man fucked around with this message at 08:13 on May 30, 2013 |
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May 30, 2013 08:09
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Very odd. I know personally that West African (Mali, basically) has like no neighbors, so your tech levels are completely abysmal. Even with constant spy tech (which you shouldn't be doing, cause the only way to win a war above the sahara against the Abbasids is to gank like 20 caliphs in a row until their vassals finally revolt) you're still gonna be at least three levels behind even the non-muslims in everything. I can't imagine Africans getting land org. 4 before literally anyone else.
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May 30, 2013 08:24
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As emperor of scandinavia I wanted a vassal trade republic boosting my income so I used titular duchy of Gotland and recently conquered Riga to make one. Welp, apparently they need some level in trade practices to build any trade posts, as of now they're a trade republic that doesn't know how to trade. 
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May 30, 2013 08:44
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Pyromancer posted:As emperor of scandinavia I wanted a vassal trade republic boosting my income so I used titular duchy of Gotland and recently conquered Riga to make one. I like to imagine a bunch of blonde cavemen looking befuddled at a market stall: So... I give you stuff, and you give me other stuff? WHAT IS THIS SORCERY
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May 30, 2013 08:52
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"OK so 2 chickens, that will be 40 gold coins" *looks on in confusion, dumps entire bag on the table*
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May 30, 2013 08:57
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They might not know about trade, but they sure as hell know boats. As in, click 'raise local liege levy fleets' for two hundred boats.
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May 30, 2013 09:02
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Ok, some non TOG-talk. I was briefly the Emperor of the HRE, I died of old age at 89. My 3-year old son ( ) inherited it. Actually no, he only inherited some parts, I didn't manage to change the gavelkind succession in time.No big deal, he's the King of Germany and has a de jure claim on a large number of counties. Somehow, he also inherited the retinue army of my emperor. So now I have a retinue army of 3,5K; while my limit is like 700 guys? Is this a bug? Because I was waging a war with that army when my emperor died? It certainly makes things a lot easier, I'm taking back what's mine in a record time.
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May 30, 2013 09:26
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Tehan posted:They might not know about trade, but they sure as hell know boats. As in, click 'raise local liege levy fleets' for two hundred boats.
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May 30, 2013 09:35
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beedeebee posted:Ok, some non TOG-talk. Not a bug, it's totally possible to inherit retinues. They won't reinforce but you can still get them. Late game you can find yourself inheriting 500-man archer stacks whenever a count relative dies and their title goes to you.
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May 30, 2013 09:46
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Thanqol posted:Not a bug, it's totally possible to inherit retinues. They won't reinforce but you can still get them. Ah ok, that's cool. Should have maxed them out when I was still the emperor then  It certainly is a huge advantage. Declare war and oh what's this? My army is already at your border while you have to raise your army from several counties? Too bad 
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May 30, 2013 09:54
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Is it just me or is reforming the Norse faith way too easy for how drat powerful the norse are, especially if you're in Scandanavia. It feels like it either should be somewhat disadvantageous or much much harder. Edit: Also not a fan of the single kingdom empires they added, or the Byzantines having De Jure claims on Sicily and Croatia, though that may be a vanillaism I forgot. Gorelab fucked around with this message at 10:44 on May 30, 2013 |
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May 30, 2013 10:08
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Can Crusades/Jihad be called before old 1066 start date? Though not impossible, it'd be cool to play Islam with some breathing space against the Crusader Clown Car.
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May 30, 2013 10:10
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Is there any benefit to switching to Swedish/Danish/Norwegian culture from the all-encompassing Norse Culture? I accidentally clicked the Swedish culture decision and have a feeling that it'll bite me in the rear end when I try to conquer Norway or Denmark.
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May 30, 2013 10:13
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 So apparently, this is what happens when you try to carve a runestone as a lunatic. Another event that might have triggered due to lunacy and Norse that I didn't screencap at the time, spoilered for awesome - I apparently summoned Cthulhu and then rammed him with a goddamn longboat. Old Gods owns.
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May 30, 2013 10:13
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SkySteak posted:Can Crusades/Jihad be called before old 1066 start date? Though not impossible, it'd be cool to play Islam with some breathing space against the Crusader Clown Car. No, crusades can be called after 1090, great holy wars after 1100 and jihads not until 1187.
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May 30, 2013 10:19
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Econosaurus posted:Is it possible to start as a character below a count? Nope. However, if you're looking for extra challenge, there are a number of provinces in backwater areas, mostly in the northeastern part of the map, that have only one barony and no vassals. Pretty satisfying when you turn one of the shittiest characters in the game into a powerhouse. For example, after loving around as a Viking a little bit in the 867 start, I decided that was too easy and that I should rebuild the Norse faith in 1066. As the one-barony Petty King of Norrland. I have to say, this game has kept me on the edge of my seat so far. Having less than a thousand men, I had to limit my raiding to pure opportunism in already war-torn areas, and shortly after I made it to three provinces, Norway declared holy war. This means I'm hosed, right? NOPE. I immediately declared war on the Earl of Desmond, raised mercenaries from my pitiful raiding cash, and organized a Norse exodus to Ireland. Managed to conquer the province just before the Christians forced me to surrender the homeland. It's now the 1120's, I'm King of Ireland unifying the island, and the heathen scourge once again pillages the shores of Europe despite constant holy wars against me. Soon I'll prepare a Viking invasion of Sweden out of Ireland and engage in one of history's most ironies.
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May 30, 2013 10:53
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John Charity Spring posted:In addition to the looted penalties, sometimes holdings can be entirely destroyed by raiders. Yeah, that triggered to me when I was looting Rome. Burn, castle, burn! This DLC is really awesome and I like how it's tongue-in-cheek in some parts. The only thing I've felt bad about is sacrificing people at blot. Yeah, looting and taking concubines and whatever, but that flavor text of people reciting their prayers while a noose is placed on their neck gets me. 
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May 30, 2013 11:01
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Yeah I'll second the 'start as a pagan in 1066' thing. It's much more fun when the whole world hates you and I don't like how the new start date tends to result in Europe being a huge loving mess outside of Italy and France which seem to generally stay in one piece or blob.
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May 30, 2013 11:06
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^^ You think that's bad, wait until you have a family member beg you not to sacrifice them.
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May 30, 2013 11:08
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Randarkman posted:Anyone else experienced the Norse turning to Christianity? I had a game as the Gutes of Gotland. About 50 years in some guy (King Gorm the Careless) managed to unite most of Sweden, Finland and chunks of the Baltic coast while my Gotlanders were raiding the west and conquering small Baltic states. Bit worrisome, but also cool, however then he turned Catholic and successfully Holy warred me for Memel. The course was clear. Once recovered form the war, Jarl David -The cruel, as he was later known - took revenge on the perverters of the Norse faith. King Gorm and his Son fell victim to David's plots, leaving Sweden under the rule of Gorm's daughter, Sif, with her sister as heir. Meanwhile the raiders of Gotland sought out the leader of the White God's church and sacked Rome. Twice. Sadly the Pope was nowhere to be found, but the loot brought back from this raid allowed David to begin the Prepared Invasion of Sweden. However, Queen Sif had not been idle, she had married the King of Great Moravia, securing an important alliance, and also bringing in the Moravian's ally, the Duke of Weligrad. The invasion was 2 years of planning followed by 15 years of fighting. In all, 6 great armies were sent north from Moravia to be slaughtered by the Gotlanders, but the 6th was only stopped by a large mercenary force - funded by the ransoming of the King of Moravia and his brother, who has been captured in the defeat of the 3rd wave. David also fell in this battle, cut down during a berserk charge, but his son Gudmundr took his place. Finally as the 7th Moravian army was approaching, peace was concluded, leaving Sif with Memel and much of Finland still in her hands. King Gudmundr, the Gentle, was anything but. As Sweden recovered he put down a rebellion by the few remaining Catholic nobles, and increased the crown authority to revoke their titles. He took revenge on the Duke of Weligrad by looting his capital and carrying off his Duchess to be his concubine. As Sweden grew in power he expanded to the South and East, and raided widely, even the Muslims of Spain and the Greek Emperors feared his name. At the height of his power the siezed Zeeland from the King of Lothringia, a site sacred to the Norse faith. As Gudmundr grew old he blessed his luck. He had 5 children, but only one son to inherit his whole Kingdom, but the luck of Gudmundr was at an end. Prince Kol died from an illness in the prime of his life and suddenly the succession was in a shambles. Gudmundr did what he could, seeking out young and lustful concubines to bear him a son, but without success he died at 55. Leadership of Sweden passed to Ulfhildr - A woman suffering from the Great Pox and married to a Norwegian Jarl in a regular marriage with a son not of her Dynasty. She inherited only the new capital of Uppland and a poor Finnish Barony while her sisters received the old core of Gotlander power. She ruled for a year, plotting how to kill her husband, son, and sisters, before a massive revolt placed another on the Swedish Throne. Another year was spent plotting revenge as a Jarl before the Pox took her life, ending the direct line of Gutes and my game. Edit: I think others corrected me already, but yeah, Prepared Invasion is Norse only, not all Pagans. Darkrenown fucked around with this message at 11:54 on May 30, 2013 |
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May 30, 2013 11:50
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Decided to run a handsoff game and welp: 
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May 30, 2013 12:25
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I guess they really were hungry 
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May 30, 2013 12:29
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crm posted:Your direct heir. It said it very clearly in red text. I could make people down the succession line a Godi, but not my first born son. Yeah, you can't take the one you're set to play as next out of the line of succession, I assume this is either a protection against Theocracy or Self-Extinction. If you have a title he's not inheriting, you can make that primary and you can send him off to camp without trouble. Kind of a gamey solution but it's a pretty baffling restriction. Is anyone else having a mess of minor bugs in Ye Olde Godse? So far nothing that actually hinders gameplay, but I've gotten a bunch of STUFF_WITH_UNDERSCORES in my text and vassals agreeing to end their plot followed by "I refuse to abandon! You won't stop me from!" coming shortly after. Though for the first time, thanks to a few brother-sister marraiges to appease the vassals in my Zoroastrian game, I've finally seen people get the inbred trait. None of them have made it past age 7. Acute Grill fucked around with this message at 12:42 on May 30, 2013 |
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May 30, 2013 12:31
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RabidWeasel posted:Yeah I'll second the 'start as a pagan in 1066' thing. It's much more fun when the whole world hates you and I don't like how the new start date tends to result in Europe being a huge loving mess outside of Italy and France which seem to generally stay in one piece or blob. Started as Erik the Heathen. There's a really neat trick to prepared invasions that I suspect is not meant to be abusable in this way. The number of dudes you get per prepared invasion event is proportional to your manpower. No problem, except this includes your mercenaries As Erik in 1066, I quietly raided the gently caress out of the Med until I had around 4k gold and prestige, and then declared a prepared invasion on Norway. I then raised a fuckload of mercenaries, and kept my regular levies on raid duty to pay for them. I ended up with something like thirty thousand event troops. As soon as I did, I got my massive army of event troops and also declared war on Sweden for the kingship. I smashed both of them (armies now give a lot more warscore), and I ended up King of Sweden with all of Norway as my possession (since the Ynglings had England, for some reason it didn't give me the King title of Norway) by about 1080. I then took Sjaelland, found Holland in revolt, took Zeeland and managed to reform the faith by 1085. Here's another neat thing about the Norse. Any kingdoms you have count as having Free Investiture, which grants you a +10 (and for some reason a +25 once I gained my imperial title) bonus to church relations. As leader of the faith, you gain another +20 to your relations to the church, and in addition if you have a lot of clerical vassals you'll hit the +20 piety relation bonus in no time at all. Keeping in mind that maximum penalty to church vassal relations (specifically) is -40 with max levies and taxes, so you're still 10 ahead. Once you include tech in there, (which is easily upped to +9 early in the game, you can run a massive theocratic empire with no fear of anyone ever revolting effectively. There also seems to be a +10 bonus for any church vassals of yours at Duke-level or above. Overall you end up with a base of +94, and if you want to max out your levies and taxes you can just going loving wild. Also declared a Great Holy War for Egypt, took it, and granted it independence. I'm hoping to see the most loving metal pyramids ever built.
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May 30, 2013 12:43
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