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Ashcans posted:Eldar actually have a ton of options in most of their branches; they only have slightly more in Heavy than in Elite, for instance. The issue is really that the very specialized nature of Eldar units means that we end up with a variety of choices for similar roles which is tough when you have limited slots. Shuffling around would have helped (like putting War Walkers into FA) but would really have been nice would be more 'unlocks' like allowing Wraithguard to be Troops. Make Falcons dedicated transports, give us other HQs that move things around for different configurations. Yeah, the Eldar have a wealth of options. Look at is this way: in a game where most factions have two basic troop choices and one or two unlockable troop choices, Eldar have five basic troop choices and an unlockable choice. I'm a bit disappointed falcons didn't become dedicated transports and walkers didn't move into fast attack because I could have really benefited from freeing up the HS slots, but I'm not going to complain about it, especially now that I can have six HS slots in a 2000 point game.
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May 30, 2013 21:23
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How do the Blood Angels differ in playstyle from the Ultramarines? Glancing through the codex, the only remarkable things I noticed are the Death Company (powerful but reckless units) and overcharged tanks (are they more mobile?).
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May 30, 2013 22:08
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Baron Bifford posted:How do the Blood Angels differ in playstyle from the Ultramarines? Glancing through the codex, the only remarkable things I noticed are the Death Company (powerful but reckless units) and overcharged tanks (are they more mobile?). They get assault marines as troops instead of fast attack. Death company are great units if you don't hold objectives with them, they have relentless and two base attacks so give them bolters and you can shoot twice, charge, and get the same amount of attacks as marines with close combat weapons. Blood angels also get neat dreadnoughts with special close combat weapons.
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May 30, 2013 22:28
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TastyAvocado posted:Out of curiosity, does anyone have a rough timeline of when we might see those models shown at the horus heresy weekender up for sale? I loved the phoenix guard terminator and I wanna know if I'm gonna have to wait a year for them to come out. No timescales were given, but expect to see a good portion of it in the next 4 months. Games Day might be the day for Heresy Part 2: Heresy Harder, and I'd expect some releases to accompany it, but for all I know it's at the printers now. The Emperors Children blades unit I'd expect to see up in June though, and Fulgrim as well.
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May 30, 2013 22:42
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Baron Bifford posted:How do the Blood Angels differ in playstyle from the Ultramarines? Glancing through the codex, the only remarkable things I noticed are the Death Company (powerful but reckless units) and overcharged tanks (are they more mobile?). There's a huge difference in playstyle. While codex marines generally play a gunline with counter charge elements BA must be used in a much more aggressive way. You have to use mobility (like fast vehicles and drop pods) to take out key enemy units and then mop up what's left. Securing objectives is often something you do late game rather than stand on them from the start. It's difficult to play BA well, but very rewarding when you pull it off.
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May 30, 2013 22:44
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PeterWeller posted:I'm a bit disappointed falcons didn't become dedicated transports and walkers didn't move into fast attack because I could have really benefited from freeing up the HS slots, but I'm not going to complain about it, especially now that I can have six HS slots in a 2000 point game. Yeah, at 1850 the slot is a bit tight, but you generally won't need it as much. Jump up to 2000 and you have plenty of space to play with. Mostly because I would never run any army with less than 4 troop choices at 2000 points anyways.
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May 30, 2013 22:58
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Baron Bifford posted:How do the Blood Angels differ in playstyle from the Ultramarines? Glancing through the codex, the only remarkable things I noticed are the Death Company (powerful but reckless units) and overcharged tanks (are they more mobile?). I don't play Codex Marines but I do play Blood Angels so here's my take (anybody feel free to add in, I'm probably forgetting things). No Combat Tactics so no intentionally breaking from assault to get more shooting in. Readily available Feel No Pain from Sanguinary Priests. Tanks are "Fast"; they can move the same distance as Codex Marine tanks but they get to shoot more weapons while on the move. On the flip side, tanks are MORE expensive because they are "Fast". Access to Dreadnoughts in Troops, Elite and Heavy slot. Psyker Dreadnoughts (cool sounding but pretty crappy in reality). Dropping 1 or 2 Drop Pod Blood Talon Furioso Dreads or Frag/Flamer Dreads on Turn 1 that are AV 13 on the front can completely wreck your opponents back field scoring if they didn't deploy intelligently. Assault Marines as troops; 12" moving marines that are more close combat oriented. Not THAT good at CC but not too bad at busting up Tanks. Death Company troops are awesome but are HUGE fire magnets; possible Death Company army (this doesn't really work now that most games are objective based and DC never score so they can't capture objectives). Discounted Landraiders/Rhinos/Razorbacks if Assault Marines decide to ditch their Jump Packs. Iconic HQs that look and sound cool but are now way overpriced now due to changes in 6e rules. So the best HQ choices are sort of boring utility pieces. Sanguinary Guard: essentially jump pack Terminators with no Invul Save (not as good as they sound at all). Cheaper Devastator squads. No Thunderfire cannons. Lots of potential for deep striking. Drop Pod Assault rule means 1 or 2 units will be in your opponents face on Turn 1 guaranteed although this definitely took a hit with influx of Skyfire and Interceptor. BA play kinda weird in 6e. They are supposed to be in your face badasses who throw down against anybody but in reality they fold in CC pretty fast so don't think you're going to win the game just by out-punching your opponent. Assault marines are still good troops seeing as denying your opponent objective points is just as good as claiming them for yourself and 12" move can get you places fast. BA are very mobile and because of this they actually play the shooting game alright. Not better than any dedicated shooting army by a long shot but tanks and transports that can move 12" and still shoot most if not all of their guns are surprisingly handy (see Baal Predators and Vindicators). Landraiders with a 35 point discount may not be the most competitive option available but sticking 2/3 LRs in a 2000 point game can really throw a wrench in your opponents works if they didn't bring the weapons to take them out. Or they both get blown up Turn 1 and you're out almost 500 points. Such is the luck of the dice. Cheap Devastator heavy weapon squads are also nice compliments to BA assault; shoot down your target with 4 rocket launchers or 4 plasma cannons (my personal favorite) before your Assault Marines get there. Stormravens used to be the BA ace card but now Codex Marines have that as well so they break even there. BA are alright overall. All the cool things they can do (All Death Company army, all Sanguinary Guard army, tons of Dreadnoughts, Razorback lists) just aren't that good anymore (if they were ever good) so you end up playing pretty static "competitive" lists unless you just want to do stuff for shits and giggles. I like playing with Assault Squads, Sniper Squads, Bikes, Priests, Baal Preds and Heavy weapons (Double Vindicator and a Stormraven or Dev Squad) and go super shooty while ASM squads go in for the assault. They got knocked down a few power pegs when 6e came out (addition of Overwatch, loss of +1 Initiative on Furious Charge, change to FnP was both good and bad) but I've never been completely decimated when playing mine and I play against Necrons, Grey Knights, Tau and Imperial Guard exclusively. Personally I'm waiting for the new Codex Marines codex that is rumored to come out "eventually". Most all of the models are interchangeable save for a few BA specific models so you can play both books pretty easily. Pacheeco fucked around with this message at 23:24 on May 30, 2013 |
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May 30, 2013 23:15
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Pacheeco posted:Honestly BA are alright. All the cool things they can do (All Death Company army, all Sanguinary Guard army, tons of Dreadnoughts, Razorback lists) just aren't that good anymore (if they were ever good) so you end up playing pretty static "competitive" lists unless you just want to do stuff for shits and giggles. Agree with most hings except the bold part. A static BA list is just a worse C:SM/DA/SW/GK list. I'd like to add that BA doesn't really have any good scoring units. You get a better deal on scoring troops in any allied codex.
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May 30, 2013 23:23
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Roshambo posted:Does anyone know of a good program for calculating odds on dice? Like if I fired Str X AP X into armor X at a BS of X I would penetrate X% glance X% do nothing X%. There are an overwhelming amount of dice rolls for me to understand as a new player. anydice.com
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May 30, 2013 23:23
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cat with hands posted:Agree with most hings except the bold part. A static BA list is just a worse C:SM/DA/SW/GK list. Oh in no way do I mean BA are even remotely competitive anymore and yes a "competitive" list is just a worse version of any of those codexes. I should have clarified; a "competitive a.k.a not get steam rolled immediately" BA list probably isn't going to be utilizing many of the BA specific toys which sucks and yes just makes them crappier C:SM/DA/SW/GK. Yes, BA really struggle with scoring compared to a lot of the other codexes. A decked out ASM squad is over 200 points for 10 guys and weapons. 10 Tac marines isn't that much less expensive after giving them special/heavy weapons. I like Sniper Squads for my own objectives if I'm playing no allies which happens 95% of the time in my group simply because that's the cheapest option available. BA + IG is exponentially better than BA alone simply for the synergy bonuses between BA + IG and IG bringing along cheap objective holders. Honestly BA + "any codex with cheap troops" is better than BA alone. Pacheeco fucked around with this message at 23:42 on May 30, 2013 |
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May 30, 2013 23:38
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This is awesome, thanks!
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May 30, 2013 23:38
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Possible components to a jetbike list:code:code:code:code:----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I like Wave Serpents. They can move 12" and fire both their serpent shield and a bright lance or a scatter laser. Possible components to a mech list (every Wave Serpent buys holofields and a bright lance or a scatter laser): code:code:code:code:I'm not sure which list I prefer, any thoughts? Phyresis fucked around with this message at 00:37 on May 31, 2013 |
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May 31, 2013 00:32
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Anybody know if Forge World ever did special rules for the Tallarn models they have on their website. I've looked at them from time to time for awhile now and they look very nice.
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May 31, 2013 00:54
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Pacheeco posted:Oh in no way do I mean BA are even remotely competitive anymore and yes a "competitive" list is just a worse version of any of those codexes. I should have clarified; a "competitive a.k.a not get steam rolled immediately" BA list probably isn't going to be utilizing many of the BA specific toys which sucks and yes just makes them crappier C:SM/DA/SW/GK. You can build a strong list with pure BA too, but not a strong all comers list. They are a bit like Tyranids in that regard. Like you say BA + IG is good, so is BA allied with GK, SW, DA just to name a few. There's good stuff in every force org slot except when it comes to scoring.
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May 31, 2013 01:23
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Any info about Banshees and Scorpions? Are they still useless in 6th ed?
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May 31, 2013 01:42
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Nice! Try this (I make no promises it is correct) http://anydice.com/program/23b0 quote:WSATTACKER: 4 OK, I was bored!
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May 31, 2013 01:58
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Deanut Pancer posted:Nice! Try this (I make no promises it is correct) http://www.heresy-online.net/combatcalculator/shooting.php I don't think it's updated for 6e (no option for AP values on close combat weapons, have to use Ignore Armor, etc.) but it gets the job done for the most part if you know how to play around with the check boxes. Pacheeco fucked around with this message at 02:35 on May 31, 2013 |
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May 31, 2013 02:32
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Chance II posted:Anybody know if Forge World ever did special rules for the Tallarn models they have on their website. I've looked at them from time to time for awhile now and they look very nice. They have some heavy weapons teams...
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May 31, 2013 03:14
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Help me out here, how would you use Howling Banshees in 6th edition? If I understand the rules right, you can't assault out of a transport (that isn't open topped or blessed with assault ramps) even if you're stationary for a turn. So if you have Banshees in a Wave Serpent, the soonest they could attack someone is turn 3 - and they'd spend turn 2 out in the lurch after they disembark. What are they for?
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May 31, 2013 03:41
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Ghost Hand posted:They have some heavy weapons teams... Yeah and and extra bits of the sprues can be used to make regular troops. I was just wondering if they got around to including them in one of the imperial armour books since it looks like they are just there as an after thought. Closest I've seen is some art in IA3 (I think?)
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May 31, 2013 03:42
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Snollygoster posted:Help me out here, how would you use Howling Banshees in 6th edition? Dying. Scorpions, too.
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May 31, 2013 03:52
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Snollygoster posted:Help me out here, how would you use Howling Banshees in 6th edition? Yeah I was really hoping Banshee Masks would have some rule like the chaos sirens and interact with Overwatch to at least help them survive that. I think someone else was saying earlier that they're better as a counter-attack unit than a full offensive unit. You keep them in cover in your lines and pile them in to save your vulnerable units. Banshees are great at dealing with small (non-2+ save) elite units that get thrown into your backline, I suppose? It's a pretty small niche though.
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May 31, 2013 03:53
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Helion posted:Dying. Scorpions, too. Scorpions are a lot better off though, since they apparently: -Have Grenades -are still a 3+ save -have Stealth, Infiltrate, and MTC as base skills -Exarch gets a powerfist that is neither unwieldy nor specialist So they can actually be on foot as a counter-assault unit and get things done against most units that come calling. Banshees have worse armor, no grenades (so they'll all go at I1 if they charge, which means they suffer more wounds first turn of combat), and have the problems even getting engaged already listed. It seems like to me, Eldar's big weakness will be dealing with flyers, since Reapers and their own AV10 flyer are the only things that're really capable of dealing with them. Tau allies, maybe?
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May 31, 2013 04:05
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Christ, they still haven't given Banshees grenades yet? That's a really glaring weakness even with their masks.
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May 31, 2013 04:17
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I agree that if you want to pay top dollar for a melee unit to sit in cover behind your lines and hope the enemy comes within range, Scorpions are your boys. That aside, though, I don't see much use for them. Scorpions, Guardians, Banshees, Hawks....unfortunately, I don't think they will see a lot of play. And I wish I was just talking about min-maxers. Using a unit that is fun but inefficient is one thing, but nothing is fun about just getting shot up without accomplishing anything. I imagine the Guardians and Banshees especially will suffer from that.
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May 31, 2013 04:23
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lockdar posted:I'm in Europe, so consider shipping to the US isn't a really good option should you live there Maybe late on this, but is this still there?
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May 31, 2013 04:30
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Chance II posted:Anybody know if Forge World ever did special rules for the Tallarn models they have on their website. I've looked at them from time to time for awhile now and they look very nice. There's a page of rules for a Tallarn army near the back of Imperial Armour Vol 3 - The Taros Campaign, for a Tallarn Platoon command squad, 2-5 Infantry squads and a Rough Rider squadron NTRabbit fucked around with this message at 06:25 on May 31, 2013 |
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May 31, 2013 06:21
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Helion posted:I agree that if you want to pay top dollar for a melee unit to sit in cover behind your lines and hope the enemy comes within range, Scorpions are your boys. That aside, though, I don't see much use for them. Scorpions, Guardians, Banshees, Hawks....unfortunately, I don't think they will see a lot of play. And I wish I was just talking about min-maxers. Using a unit that is fun but inefficient is one thing, but nothing is fun about just getting shot up without accomplishing anything. I imagine the Guardians and Banshees especially will suffer from that. Scorpions can infiltrate ahead of your lines and disrupt/distract your opponent. And they're armored enough and pack enough attacks to be credible assault threat against most units. Harlies are the guys who will hide behind your lines and counter-assault. While 6E has shifted away from CC, it's still something you'll have to deal with, and both of those units are pretty good at it. Banshees still seem right out; it's a shame. Hawks are much cheaper and sound decently improved, so I suspect I and others with a soft spot for them will find reasons to take them. But I think you're totally wrong about guardians. BS4, running and shooting, and the improved shruicats make them a much more tempting choice for only a few more points (or very likely a few less with a weapon platform). I'm pretty sure at least one squad will be making regular appearances in my army.
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May 31, 2013 06:58
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Fair enough, I guess. After you use the Guardians, do come back and let us know how they worked out. I'd love to hear about how I was wrong.
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May 31, 2013 07:40
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I actually think Banshees could be alright if used in certain ways. Attaching a Battle Farseer could go a fair way to making them a more viable unit since it can use Quicken to get them across the board or into cover quicker (on top of their Acrobatic bonus), use Protect to up their save if needs be or Jinx to get Terminators down to a 3+ save and Empower to up the unit's strength to guarantee more wounds caused. This is of course assuming Runes of Battle powers aren't just for Warlocks  I know they're not the most viable unit in the book, but with the right synergy (something I think the Eldar book is still going to be very dependant on) they could perform well.
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May 31, 2013 07:45
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Ally in dark eldar for raiders and venoms. You're gonna have to fart arse around first turn but it could be fun, if not really reliable.
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May 31, 2013 07:51
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I think only warlocks and spirit seers get runes of battle. Maybe you can attach a warlock to them to help buff them. I think that's going to be the ticket to really nasty guardian squads. IIRC doom is the primaris power, which would mean a squad of guardians led by a warlock are going to put out enough AP2 wounds to scare a terminator squad.
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May 31, 2013 07:56
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Smegmalicious posted:Maybe late on this, but is this still there? Check out my topic in SA-Mart http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3552048
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May 31, 2013 08:00
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PeterWeller posted:I think only warlocks and spirit seers get runes of battle. Maybe you can attach a warlock to them to help buff them. I think that's going to be the ticket to really nasty guardian squads. IIRC doom is the primaris power, which would mean a squad of guardians led by a warlock are going to put out enough AP2 wounds to scare a terminator squad. If that's the case then it's a shame. Warlocks can only join Guardians, Guardian Jetbikes and Support Batteries.
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May 31, 2013 08:05
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Fuegan posted:If that's the case then it's a shame. Warlocks can only join Guardians, Guardian Jetbikes and Support Batteries. Am I wrong in assuming that with the new powers a Warlock should be midfield somewhere, there he can get the most targets for his powers. I have the feeling that they won't be much good in Support Weapon batteries, seems like a waste to have them in the backfield. I'm also not clear on when you attach them to squads, before or after rolling for their powers?
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May 31, 2013 08:54
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Sorry to pop in during Eldarchat, but it's BATREP time again! This is the rematch of the CSM/SW battle I had a couple of weeks ago, I'm pretty sure we got all the rules right this time! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsHuKT0VKgo I tried a new thing in the video, speeding up the actual movement during the turn. The first turn is pretty quick because it's just movement but from turn 2 onwards it's more noticeable. I'd appreciate any feedback on the sped-up sections - it basically doubles or triples the amount of time it takes to make the video but it does add a unique element I think.
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May 31, 2013 09:19
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The Gate posted:So they can actually be on foot as a counter-assault unit and get things done against most units that come calling. Banshees have worse armor, no grenades (so they'll all go at I1 if they charge, which means they suffer more wounds first turn of combat), and have the problems even getting engaged already listed. The statline for Banshees is the same, so their armour is no worse. The main changes is that they trade the old I10 banshee mask for an inferior version, get to run an extra 3", and are 1pt cheaper. They got nothing to help them avoid overwatch fire or prevent taking hits in melee. Oddly enough, Storm Guardians are actually a better assault unit. At least they come with grenades and can score. I think Eldar's problem with flyers will depend on how many units can take skyfire missiles for their EML. I haven't seen scans for War Walkers, Falcons or Vypers yet, so they could have the option. Failing that, scatter lasers could be effective. Not just with lots of S6 shots, but the laser lock ability will make the snapshots of other weapons more accurate. Twin-linked bright lances or starcannons will be really nasty if they land a hit. Edit: Snap-fire the twin-linked scatter laser on a Wave Serpent at a flyer. If you land a hit, you can then fire the Serpent Shield twin-linked also. That's D6+1 S7 shots that ignore cover - no jink saves! xtothez fucked around with this message at 10:26 on May 31, 2013 |
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May 31, 2013 09:46
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Big Willy Style posted:Ally in dark eldar for raiders and venoms. You're gonna have to fart arse around first turn but it could be fun, if not really reliable. Sorry but you can't use other codex's transports, even if you're battle bros. Page 112, under battle brothers.
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May 31, 2013 10:41
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will blow your mind.
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xtothez posted:I think Eldar's problem with flyers will depend on how many units can take skyfire missiles for their EML. Yeah... not so much. Flakk missiles are terrible, I keep trying to reiterate this. It takes twenty EML flakk missile shots to down a single Heldrake. They are 25-40 points each... you'd have to fire literally your entire army at one Flyer and it still probably wouldn't die. Eldar don't have a problem with Flyers. They have Crimson Hunters and Tau allies. If Eldar's big weakness is Flyers, I feel exceptionally bad for CSM, Daemons, and DA.
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May 31, 2013 11:31
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Phyresis posted:Yeah... not so much. Flakk missiles are terrible, I keep trying to reiterate this. It takes twenty EML flakk missile shots to down a single Heldrake. They are 25-40 points each... you'd have to fire literally your entire army at one Flyer and it still probably wouldn't die. Eldar don't have a problem with Flyers. They have Crimson Hunters and Tau allies. If Eldar's big weakness is Flyers, I feel exceptionally bad for CSM, Daemons, and DA. Yeah you're right... apparently Reapers can't even take the flakk missiles too (only the Exarch). Single anti-air War Walkers come to 110pts each, which is insane. Outside of their own flyers and allies, the best approach is probably the same Nids use - spam lots of twin-linked S6 firepower. A Guided War Walker with 2 scatter lasers is going to average 2.5 hits, so three of them can easily take out most AV10/11 flyers.
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May 31, 2013 13:37
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