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Don't forget Subaru, which has been steadily turning their wagons into crossovers or hatchbacks.
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May 23, 2013 03:47
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I'd probably still consider the allroad a wagon; it's ride height is barely increased over the A4 (at least compared to the previously available A6-based allroad). Also doesn't Acura still sell the TSX wagon in the US? Does the Prius V count as a wagon?
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May 23, 2013 04:38
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Left Ventricle posted:Americans don't want wagons or minivans anymore. They haven't for a long time. Those types of cars are not cool, man. Only soccer moms drive those. Don't forget Cadillac still sells the CTS Sport Wagon (for now): http://www.cadillac.com/cts-sport-wagon.html
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May 23, 2013 04:56
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Steve French posted:Also doesn't Acura still sell the TSX wagon in the US? Does the Prius V count as a wagon? The Acura TSX wagon sells in such poor numbers I didn't even think of it. And the Prius is a Prius.  Shin-chan posted:Don't forget Cadillac still sells the CTS Sport Wagon (for now): http://www.cadillac.com/cts-sport-wagon.html Forgot about that one too...
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May 23, 2013 05:04
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The Civic Aerodeck has always been cool in my book. They're super rare here, I think I've seen under a handful.
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May 23, 2013 06:16
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I want a wagon for 4-5k. I've been looking at A4 Avants with the 1.8t/manual/quattro or the v6 (http://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/cto/3817832587.html)... is this what I want or should I look at a Forester or Outback? Usage is a DD and sometimes pulling a small HF trailer with my Triumph 675 to a track within the surrounding 800mi. I don't really like how the Volvos look and the E39 BMWs get total poo poo gas mileage (I had one).
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May 23, 2013 19:59
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Forester and Outback don't exactly get great MPG either. Wow...whats with the used car market in AZ? http://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/cto/3824021770.html http://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/cto/3795665352.html Both Awesome cars, but at like half that price.
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May 23, 2013 20:37
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BlackMK4 posted:I want a wagon for 4-5k. I've been looking at A4 Avants with the 1.8t/manual/quattro or the v6 (http://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/cto/3817832587.html)... is this what I want or should I look at a Forester or Outback? Skip the 2.8l engine, it's a turd. I wouldn't buy a B5 that wasn't a 1.8T A4 or a 2.7T S4, but I wouldn't use either of those motors to tow either. I'd look at the Subarus you mentioned instead.
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May 23, 2013 20:42
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DropShadow posted:Skip the 2.8l engine, it's a turd. I wouldn't buy a B5 that wasn't a 1.8T A4 or a 2.7T S4, but I wouldn't use either of those motors to tow either. I'd look at the Subarus you mentioned instead. The towing isn't really an issue - it's a 375lb bike on a 250lb trailer. I figured the v6 would be slow  Mighty Horse posted:Forester and Outback don't exactly get great MPG either. Hahaha, I saw those. I'm not looking for something like that - mid 90's and newer. I figured the Forester/Outback would be mid 20's? Is that wrong? edit:http://www.fuelly.com/car/subaru/forester Ouch, allllmost as bad as my BMW was - 19mpg. BlackMK4 fucked around with this message at 20:49 on May 23, 2013 |
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May 23, 2013 20:46
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Subarus can be pretty brutal on gas depending on how you drive them. They're torquey down low so you get away with a lot from short shifting but don't expect to be kissing 30mpg no matter how you drive. They're heavy and you have the extra drivetrain loss from the AWD system. Foresters will be worse because they are based on Imprezas, but slightly heavier, worse aerodynamically and usually have a shorter final drive (which can be as much as 4.44 depending on the model vs. a normal 3.9 for the Impreza).
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May 23, 2013 21:00
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Is the Outback a lighter duty car than the Forester then? I've never really looked into Subarus much - was always a BMW/Nissan/Toyota guy.
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May 23, 2013 21:26
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BlackMK4 posted:I want a wagon for 4-5k. I've been looking at A4 Avants with the 1.8t/manual/quattro or the v6 (http://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/cto/3817832587.html)... is this what I want or should I look at a Forester or Outback? Overkill, but awesome. And half the price! http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/cto/3820793569.html
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May 23, 2013 21:48
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BlackMK4 posted:Is the Outback a lighter duty car than the Forester then? I've never really looked into Subarus much - was always a BMW/Nissan/Toyota guy. Subaru is pretty lazy and likes to reuse stuff. Pretty much everything has the same drivetrain, powerplant, etc and they just endlessly mix it up amongst different cars that often share the same chassis. There are effectively three classes of Subaru out there: Impreza, Legacy and "Exotic." For the sake of this post I'll focus on the Impreza and Legacy which is all that you really care about. The Impreza replaced the Leone and is intended to be their affordable, economical compact car. The Forester was introduced a few years later and lifted the Impreza and added some off-roady goodies. On the Impreza based models you'll usually see lower curb weights, better fuel economy, cheap performance and but worse luxury. The Legacy is Subaru's midsize chassis and is intended to be their Camry. The Outback was introduced a few years later and lifted the Legacy and added some off-roady goodies. On the Legacy platform you'll see luxury goodies, higher curb weights, reduced/"smooth" performance and a higher MSRP. In a lot of cases, when Subaru refreshes the Impreza platform they will take parts from the outgoing Legacy and use them on the lower spec car. To answer your original question, the Outback is a larger car than the Forester (longer wheelbase, more cargo room) but is more "wagon-y" than the Forester, which is clearly an attempt to make a miniature SUV. Both of them should be equally capable offroad. It's debatable whether one is tougher than the other and I believe their tow and load ratings are pretty similar. One nice benefit of all this incest and parts bin engineering is that you should be able to easily get cheap used parts. Subaru dealership new prices are pretty gouge-y so this will be something you want to look into as the cars age, and it helps cushion the blow of low production numbers.  Towing won't be a problem for either the Forester or the Outback. Seat Safety Switch fucked around with this message at 22:16 on May 23, 2013 |
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May 23, 2013 22:11
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DropShadow posted:Skip the 2.8l engine, it's a turd. I wouldn't buy a B5 that wasn't a 1.8T A4 or a 2.7T S4, but I wouldn't use either of those motors to tow either. I'd look at the Subarus you mentioned instead. The 30V 2.8 is boring, but certainly the most reliable motor of the three. Yes, it leaks oil (just like the 2.7, which is virtually the same motor with turbos attached) and eats cats (note that the only cat I know of that passes CARB is the OEM and they are shockingly expensive). The long 1.8T is a massive piece of poo poo. Even if it hasn't sludged up by now, it will have a host of issues. The 2.7TT is a cool motor, but not exactly a reliable motor (beyond the internals, which is just a 2.8 anyhow) esp if you keep the K03s. If you care about reliability at all though, you'll skip B5 (A4 and Passat) entirely if just for the front end. Also, if you're buying an automatic, anyone without fairly regular fluid changes (counter the the "lifetime" rec) is few miles away from losing key gears like reverse.
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May 24, 2013 06:15
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DropShadow posted:Let me get this straight: Your argument is that because there is not a "current" version of the Jetta sedan that the MkV JSW is based on, that means it's not a wagon? There is a current version of the Jetta sedan that the JSW is based on, it's called the European Jetta? THere's really no actual difference in the underlying cars anyway, other than the rear suspension and sime interior trim, the US GLi/Hybrid is basically the same as the EU model, people who drive VWs are just dumb babbies who hate everything because nothing is "Yoorpeen" enough for them.
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May 24, 2013 07:43
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nm posted:The 30V 2.8 is boring, but certainly the most reliable motor of the three. Yes, it leaks oil (just like the 2.7, which is virtually the same motor with turbos attached) and eats cats (note that the only cat I know of that passes CARB is the OEM and they are shockingly expensive). The long 1.8T is a massive piece of poo poo. Even if it hasn't sludged up by now, it will have a host of issues. The 2.7TT is a cool motor, but not exactly a reliable motor (beyond the internals, which is just a 2.8 anyhow) esp if you keep the K03s. Oh jesus christ, now you have met looking at mods. quote:You are looking at European spec cams only. The US spec cams are totally different. Truths: 1) All VW/Audi 30v V6 Euro gas engines (2.4, 2.7T, 2. use the same intake cams, which are native to Euro emissions. There is no such thing as "RS4 cams" in terms of exclusivity. They are merely Euro spec intake cams designed for Euro emissions testing. They have more lift than US spec units. 2) All VW/Audi 30v V6 gas engines world wide use the same exhaust cams. 3) The US spec 2.8 intake cams are not the same as Euro spec intake cams. 4) The US spec 2.8 intake cams are not the same as the US spec 2.7T intake cams. 5) Bonus: all the 30v heads use the same valves, there are no "special" valves for the RS4 heads. The exhaust valves are all sodium filled. I don't know who the heck dreamed that RS4 valve story up, but it's BS. 6) Bonus #2: all the valves in the 30v heads are really 1.8T valves.(quote) It's hard to find a cool, cheap wagon that's not a Volvo.
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May 24, 2013 09:23
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BlackMK4 posted:It's hard to find a cool, cheap wagon that's not a Volvo. You must have missed my above post. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwIaX61vMrA Suburban Dad fucked around with this message at 13:06 on May 24, 2013 |
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May 24, 2013 13:01
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Larrymer posted:You must have missed my above post. ...or the point...
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May 24, 2013 14:06
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Left Ventricle posted:Hell, wagon stalwart Volvo stopped selling the V70 here a couple years ago, though there are rumors they may bring it back.
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May 24, 2013 15:56
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BlackMK4 posted:Oh jesus christ, now you have met looking at mods. And even then the cool volvos are rare as hell. I've seen ONE 850R and it needed both a new transmission and turbo. Still wanted 3k for it. I gave up looking for wagons, everything is either way overpriced compared to the sedan counterpart (Audi/VW B5s, BMW e46s), has rust issues (Subaru I'm looking at you) or is boring and FWD. Still holding out hope that I'll find a reasonably priced Passat V6 4motion with a stick.
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May 24, 2013 18:01
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If my anecdote helps a little, my parents were in the market for the same car earlier this year, their friend swooped up the 1.8t a4 wagon they almost bought, so they went with an outback instead. The Audi has been in the shop ever since and the outback has had zero issues. Made me really reconsider wanting to own an a4 out of warranty.
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May 24, 2013 19:33
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Drunken Lullabies posted:If my anecdote helps a little, my parents were in the market for the same car earlier this year, their friend swooped up the 1.8t a4 wagon they almost bought, so they went with an outback instead. The Audi has been in the shop ever since and the outback has had zero issues. Made me really reconsider wanting to own an Fixed that for you. My gf has a 2000 Outback and its a great little car. With my normal driving(pretty much all city in traffic since I live in seattle), I tend to get just over 20mpg, but on road trips it will do closer to 30. I am always pretty impressed with how good the car feels to drive, nice steering feel, good brake/throttle response and pretty comfortable for long drives. Just about finished moving right now and I have been amazed how much stuff I can cram into it with the rear seat down.
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May 24, 2013 19:48
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Negromancer posted:Fixed that for you. My parents ended up spending a little more and getting an 07. It's seriously an excellent all around car that can perform light SUV duty. I'm constantly surprised with how much stuff you can fit in it. Part of what keeps me in the Seattle area is the ability to steal/borrow their car because I can't fit anything in my coupe. I've taken it on a few long trips to buy various car parts from forums and it actually gets decent mileage outside of the city. In the city not so much, it averages the same as my e30 but takes regular. I just hate the auto box in it, subaru autos never felt right to me. Drunken Lullabies fucked around with this message at 19:56 on May 24, 2013 |
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May 24, 2013 19:53
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Yea, the newer ones are a bit nicer. We actually got the outback from her mom, who upgraded to a new CRV and had the outback since new. We sold my gf's old car(2001 legacy sedan) and paid her mom trade in value for her outback, since it had slightly lower mileage(100k) than her legacy and was a wagon. Thankfully since it is older, it takes regular and gets almost as good of mileage as my '91 e30 318i sedan. The auto is not great, but not the worst I have driven. The only subaru auto I have liked is the on in my friends Legacy GT Limited, the manual shifting is surprisingly good.
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May 24, 2013 20:01
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Negromancer posted:Fixed that for you. I have a 2000 outback, too. It's a decent car, but I wouldn't call it little. I can fit an enormous amount of stuff in mine, I've completely blown the rear shocks on it. Baja springs are stiffer, so I'll probably put a set in when I get new struts. Is yours an automatic or a manual? Automatics from 99 - 01 have an issue where some seal goes in the trans (I think it's the one around reverse actuator shaft) and it stops engaging any gear. If it lags going into drive or reverse, or going from D to R SELL IT NOW!
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May 24, 2013 21:18
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Yea, little is relative term. Still feels small next to half the SUV's on the road or even the new outbacks, those things are HUGE. It is an auto, but was very well maintained by my gf's parents. Is that something that would have been fixed by the dealer, or is it just an inevitable failure? I don't think it really lags going into gear, at least no more than any other auto I have ever driven. How big of a lag are you talking about? A couple seconds? I would say it takes it less than a second to engage after moving the shifter into D or R. If it does go, I wonder how hard a manual swap would be for it. I have the strange urge to put a lift kit on it.......
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May 24, 2013 21:49
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Crustashio posted:And even then the cool volvos are rare as hell. I've seen ONE 850R and it needed both a new transmission and turbo. Still wanted 3k for it. I gave up looking for wagons, everything is either way overpriced compared to the sedan counterpart (Audi/VW B5s, BMW e46s), has rust issues (Subaru I'm looking at you) or is boring and FWD. Still holding out hope that I'll find a reasonably priced Passat V6 4motion with a stick. Are you in the US and talking about the b5? Because production numbers of b5 passat wagons with stick, the v6, and 4mo was in the single digits. Literally a unicorn. As for the b6, there were so many early engine failures on those, it was scary. The good news is that from what I can tell 4th gen legacies finally have rustproofing that isn't a joke (brake lines excluded, but they recall will hopefully pick). Too bad that unless you want an outback, the nas are rare as hell and the turbos are rare and expensive. I'm just hoping manual ctsv wagon prices will crash. That's likely right?
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May 25, 2013 00:07
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poo poo, didn't realize the passat 5speeds with AWD were so rare. I wouldn't actually mind an late model outback, but they're way out of my pricerange for a daily. I still don't trust subaru on rust, I see loving 06/07 imprezas with the rear quarter panel rust around here.
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May 25, 2013 00:14
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Crustashio posted:poo poo, didn't realize the passat 5speeds with AWD were so rare. The impreza is an old design built in a different factory in a different country. The OB is built in a newer plant in the US and uses rust proofing. Same rust proofing as the camrys that come out of the same plant.
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May 25, 2013 02:11
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The 0.1% of me that listens to Alice Cooper wants this: http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/cto/3826437573.html
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May 25, 2013 02:26
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Negromancer posted:Yea, little is relative term. Still feels small next to half the SUV's on the road or even the new outbacks, those things are HUGE. Manual swap isn't really that much harder than a transmission swap. You just have to crawl under the dash and change out the pedal box. Involves dropping the steering column, sucks a bit, but it's not really that bad. It sounds fine. It'll start barely noticeable, but you'll notice, hmm it's not the same as usual. It'll get to the point where it'll lag a few seconds, stay there for a while, and start going downhill. You get TONS of warning with these. Last year I was talking to a guy that worked at one of the bigger indy shops in the area, and he said back when he worked there they figured out how to change that seal without even dropping the trans. I've personally never done it, I try to avoid taking apart autos... If it ever does start lagging, put the lucas auto trans poo poo in it. I'm not a big fan of fix in a bottle, but in this case it's been proven time and time again to help the issue. But if it's working fine, drain and fill it with atf every now and again and it'll be fine for a good while.
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May 25, 2013 02:31
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blk posted:The 0.1% of me that listens to Alice Cooper wants this: http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/cto/3826437573.html You will put a T56 in there, won't you?
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May 25, 2013 02:51
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blk posted:The 0.1% of me that listens to Alice Cooper wants this: http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/cto/3826437573.html That is awesome. chrisgt posted:Manual swap isn't really that much harder than a transmission swap. You just have to crawl under the dash and change out the pedal box. Involves dropping the steering column, sucks a bit, but it's not really that bad. Yea, its not bad now, but I'll be sure to keep an eye on it. There are a ton of good independent subaru shops around here, so I am sure they could fix it if I need to. I just found this on CL and is making me want to go buy it now.... VOLVO V70R AWD W/ 6SPD MANUAL SWAP - $6500 (Snohomish ) 
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May 26, 2013 21:30
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Turbo timer means that all of the security system in that car is compromised, including alarm and immobilizer. The rest is awesome, but that little part makes me really wary as the wiring to put one in a modern car is complex and easily ruined.
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May 27, 2013 22:18
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DJ Commie posted:Turbo timer means that all of the security system in that car is compromised, including alarm and immobilizer. The rest is awesome, but that little part makes me really wary as the wiring to put one in a modern car is complex and easily ruined. Also, if you have a modern water cooled turbo, you really don't need a turbo timer. Maybe idle for a touch when you have really hot temps, but turbo timers are really over kill.
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May 27, 2013 22:23
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This page needs more pics. A brief preamble, though: when I was a kid I rather actively disliked estates (wagons to you guys over the Atlantic). To my immature taste only ultra-streamlined sports cars were really attractive, and estates were more or less on the other end of the spectrum. Now I'm still a fan of sports cars, but as a dad and dog owner the idea of a super-practical car turns me on quite a bit these days. I also think they're better looking and make much more sense than SUVs. The attraction is even greater to me if some formidable power is added into the mix. Hence, my recent purchase: the S6 Avant. This car almost has it all for me - refinement, space, terrifying acceleration and the comforting feeling that when my family are riding in it they are as safe as they could be in a car. The only thing it lacks is the agility of my old car. The 4-wheel-drive combined with the size and solidity and all Audi's safety tech make it feel unbelievably safe in bad weather. Admittedly, coming from a Mazda RX8 with its rear-wheel-drive and summer performance tyres it isn't hard to feel like that in a car, but this is really the other end of the scale. The other day I was driving it on the motorway in some extremely heavy rain. Visibility was poor. Yet the car was as stable as it is in the dry regardless of what speed I did, and I felt safe as houses. I really loving love my new car and intend to keep it for many years. Oh yeah, pics:   
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May 30, 2013 22:37
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DJ Commie posted:Turbo timer means that all of the security system in that car is compromised, including alarm and immobilizer. The rest is awesome, but that little part makes me really wary as the wiring to put one in a modern car is complex and easily ruined. The good news there is that 98s are the last year where it might not have an immobilizer to ruin. I'm pretty sure I've seen a build thread for that car on Volvospeed, might want to go search around there Negromancer. JUNK IN DA TRUNK!  4 wheels, 8 tires, can still see out the rear view. Love my wagon. LloydDobler fucked around with this message at 07:46 on May 31, 2013 |
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May 31, 2013 07:44
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I did that the other day too, but I couldn't see out the rear window because I had a 32" TV on the top.
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May 31, 2013 14:21
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 My two favorite things. After pursuing outdoorsy physical activity I drove home listening to public radio to drink some craft beer and something something PacNW stuff
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Jun 17, 2013 03:06
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I don't know what's wrong with me, but I just bought another wagon.
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Jun 17, 2013 03:33
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