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YouTuber posted:Did anything change with the heresies in ToG? It would be nice if you could capture your parent religion Holy Sites and if the moral authority had a wide enough spread; declare the parent religion a heresy and your religion the new parent.
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Jun 3, 2013 22:57
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| # ? May 30, 2024 18:35 |
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YouTuber posted:You cannot be excommunicated in the heresy and can Holy War other Christains but also can be subject to Holy War. Orthodox Heresies and Miaphysite now get their own heads of religion. Or not, depending on the heresy. Iconoclasts for example, will have no religious head while Nestorianism does. All of the Catholic heresies dispense with having a religious head, so they basically play the same way they always did. Heresies share the holy sites of their base religion, but do not count as the base religion in terms of who is holding what. If you put a Cathar in Cologne, he'll hit the Catholic moral authority. No event to usurp ultimate authority from the main branch either. Heresies will also not be allowed to Holy war other heresies, or other branches of Christianity like Orthodoxy or Miaphysites. Lollardy and Catharism are just one big happy family, give or take an opinion malus. But put Catholicism into the room and watch the sparks fly. I haven't checked out if there have been any changes to Islamic heretics yet.
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Jun 3, 2013 23:06
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Schizotek posted:I think it's probably in the CB folder. Yep, was there.
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Jun 3, 2013 23:25
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CapnAndy posted:Irish! And I went right to Primogeniture when I was an Irish Duke, but that was 1.09. You're thinking of CK2+. It removes the crown authority requirements, but adds a huge prestige cost. While I live the idea of Pagans blobbing like crazy then splitting the realm upon death, Gavelkind simply doesn't work like that because of the way title mechanics are. Look at Charlemagne. If his titles had been split up via in-game Gavelkind, one of his sons would still be the Frankish Emperor with the other two sons as King-level vassals who also control a handful of counties around Aachen. I've modded my game so that pagans can adopt elective monarchy if they have 1000 prestige. Less anti-blob, but still reasonably historical and far less annoying.
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Jun 3, 2013 23:29
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Walliard posted:You're thinking of CK2+. It removes the crown authority requirements, but adds a huge prestige cost. Pre 1.10 - Started as an Irish Duke - Set inheritance to Primogeniture first thing I did - Created Kingdom of Ireland - Game had no problems with that being primogeniture Post 1.10 - Created Kingdom of Wales - Usurped Kingdom of France - Created Kingdom of Brittany - In every case, game immediately set Crown Authority to minimum and wants HCA for primogeniture - If I go back and look at Ireland's laws, it says Medium Crown Authority is all you need for primogeniture - Wales, France, and Brittany seem to feel differently about this Is that correct behavior or am I bugged
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Jun 3, 2013 23:40
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Walliard posted:You're thinking of CK2+. It removes the crown authority requirements, but adds a huge prestige cost. The problem with the AI anti-blobbing is that they don't create king titles other than the first so it stays as one realm. I tend to just create tons, and take the blobbing and then add claims to any of the weirdly taken away counties.
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Jun 4, 2013 00:14
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CapnAndy posted:I've never played CK2+. Here is what I know: I have also only played vanilla, and I've noticed the same behavior. It's either a patch bug or a patch feature, but it's not isolated to your machine.
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Jun 4, 2013 00:33
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CapnAndy posted:I've never played CK2+. Here is what I know: I think it used to be that dukes could set their inheritance law to whatever they wanted, and if you created a kingdom it would keep the laws of the duchy. Now it seems to default to the Gavelkind, minimum CA and default levy/tax laws. I remember being able to for example raise CA in Denmark to medium, create the kingdom of Sweden with medium CA and then raise that to high. I don't know if it's a bug or WAD, but I don't like it.
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Jun 4, 2013 00:47
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I never understood retinues until my 3 old daughter inherited and every single free dutchy and county not directly owned by her rose up in arms to kill this little girl. Now my dungeons have never been fuller  ... I hope I get the cruel trait soon 
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Jun 4, 2013 00:51
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^^  CapnAndy posted:I've never played CK2+. Here is what I know: Primogeniture has always required high crown authority in vanilla CK2. The only exceptions is if your de jure title does not exist, then you are not bound by any crown laws. Since the Kingdom of Ireland doesn't exist at game start, you could play a ruler on tutorial island, create a duchy, change succession to primogeniture and then create the Kingdom of Ireland, which would retain primogeniture succession from your duchy. And I checked in-game, and it clearly states you need high or absolute crown authority to change to primogeniture if you play as the Irish king. Although you only need high crown authority to change to primogeniture, after that you can lower it to autonomous and still retain primogeniture. Edit: Beaten, but I do like this change. It is less gamy than the other system. And people just need to either live with gavelkind (it is not so bad if you plan carefully, or just weather the 2 succession crises it takes until you get high crown authority), or embrace elective monarchy for two rulers, it is not that bad. Torrannor fucked around with this message at 00:54 on Jun 4, 2013 |
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Jun 4, 2013 00:51
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Every time I hit March 25, 992, the game crashes on my current game. Even if I pick another country! Here is my save: http://www2.zippyshare.com/v/11037431/file.html If I load an older game in this series of games, I still crash when I get close, but not on that date, which makes me believe that it is some event firing which is causing the crash. Can anyone help me figure out what is causing my game to implode?
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Jun 4, 2013 01:04
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I thought everyone playing Zoroastrians right now might like to know that there is at least one real-life claimant to the title "Saoshyant," and she happens to be a half-Dutch, half-Native American woman who was raised Jewish and claims to have died four times. edit: Added picture so you can enjoy The Saoshyant™ 
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Jun 4, 2013 01:25
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So, has anyone found a universally regarded 'easiest' Zoroastrian start? Like Ivar is for the Vikings?
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Jun 4, 2013 01:27
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I usually have good luck taking Karen and jumping the Shia dude right off the bat, as long as the holy wars don't get rolling.
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Jun 4, 2013 01:40
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A Tartan Tory posted:So, has anyone found a universally regarded 'easiest' Zoroastrian start? Like Ivar is for the Vikings? Considering theres a total of 3, it's likely based on what sort of disaster your prefer. You can make a custom zorastrian ruler of Khiva, and be murdered by your sunni vassals. You can be Karen and be murdered by the persian blob and khiva, with a side order of Tengri, or you can be....Gilan is it? And be massacred by the Byzantines, Abassids, Persians, or Armenians. The first two are equal in difficulty I'd say, the extra provinces in Khiva is offset by having to find a way to replace all those Moonmen. Gilan is "ball gag and unlubricated bassball bat" mode unless you're lucky and the Abassids ignore you or implode early. Giving the Zoro's defensive attrition is a decent bandaid. Schizotek fucked around with this message at 01:48 on Jun 4, 2013 |
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Jun 4, 2013 01:45
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There seems to be a fair amount of AI blobbing going on, especially in Francia (both East and West, which tend to turn into Francia proper)...Independence civil wars, or maybe civil wars entirely, simply aren't strong enough in large realms, due to the leige's natural strength of being able to put their forces into a doomstack, where the disparate rebels cannot do so (this, I think, was why at one point CK2+ implemented a rebel "nation" whenever a major rebellion happened)
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Jun 4, 2013 01:48
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Schizotek posted:Considering theres a total of 3, it's likely based on what sort of disaster your prefer. You can make a custom zorastrian ruler of Khiva, and be murdered by your sunni vassals. You can be Karen and be murdered by the persian blob and khiva, with a side order of Tengri, or you can be....Gilan is it? And be massacred by the Byzantines, Abassids, Persians, or Armenians. The first two are equal in difficulty I'd say, the extra provinces in Khiva is offset by having to find a way to replace all those Moonmen. Gilan is "ball gag and unlubricated bassball bat" mode unless you're lucky and the Abassids ignore you or implode early. Giving the Zoro's defensive attrition is decent bandaid. Oh, I never play over there and kinda assumed I would have more choices than three.  I guess I'll pick ball gag and unlubed baseball bat, more my style in the end.
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Jun 4, 2013 01:49
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A Tartan Tory posted:So, has anyone found a universally regarded 'easiest' Zoroastrian start? Like Ivar is for the Vikings? The Duchy/Satrapy of Karen is generally considered to be the easiest possible. Protips: attack your neighbor to the southwest in a Holy War while he's being invaded by your neighbor to the southeast (the Saffarids) for some easy provinces. That'll prevent the Saffarids (who will usually win) from gaining too huge an advantage. Then, focus on conquering Turkestan and becoming its Shah. Eventually you'll start seeing successful peasant/religious revolts in muslim states, especially ones you've been beating up. If they're adjacent to you, offer them vassalage: they'll usually accept. The Saffarids will be your primary enemy. Be an opportunistic bastard. There is a probable chance that the Zoroastrian duke/satrap along the southern Caspian coast will revolt, who will probably then try and snake across to Azerbaijan. Ally with him if possible. That's about all I can say from my personal Zoroastrian playthough. The other Zoroastrian lord got ganked early on, so I'm on my own right now. As a side note, if you're desperate for more allies you can try to convert the local pagans to the light of Ahura Mazda. This will usually not work.
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Jun 4, 2013 01:56
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I've seen a lot of Karen world conquest type posts but I haven't tried it. They start with a lot of event troops.
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Jun 4, 2013 01:56
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Not enough to counter an Abassid or united persian doomstack, but enough to get some opportunistic conquests in. And looking at the map now I was mistaken in saying there's only three. There's two independent Zorastrians, and a handful of vassals to Muslims lords that haven't converted. But Khiva, that country between Karen and Gilan, and Azerbjiwhatsit have mostly, heavily zorastrian populations, so making custom rulers there are an option.
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Jun 4, 2013 02:02
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I've only played as Karen, but here's some things that I have found helpful: You start with small-ish event army, but the number of troops in it fluctuate. Restart until you get around 6k troops, which is about the highest it will go. At the beginning of the game, you can try to nab the two already Zoroastrian counties in the small duchy to your southeast if you swarm them right off the bat. This gives you a connection to the one-province Zoroastrian Count; if he ever tries to holy war, join it and any lands he gains will give him troops to help you if you get Holy Warred on. Don't worry about county upgrades initially. Your starting buildings are pretty good and you need to save the gold to hire mercenaries. Keep an eye on the Tengri to the north, Holy War against them as soon as a revolt happens and take the one duchy you can. Put your chancellor on permanent "improve relations" with the large Sunni nation to your south. Keep an eye on the ruler's heir and go for the stab when it's a woman, child, heretic, etc. so the realm erupts in civil war. Take advantage of absolutely any opening in the Sunni nation to your east and Holy War for one of the two larger Duchies. If you can pull that off, you should have more land than them and slowly reduce them over time. It helps that there's usually a succession crisis within the first twenty years or so. Also, if you ever manage to capture an heir or someone fairly high in the line of succession young enough, you can try educate them and flip them to Zoroastrianism. At the very least if you can maneuver them into power they won't attack you, and at best you have a powerful new ally. This is probably the most difficult thing to try to pull off. Starting as the Zoroastrians involves a poo poo ton of luck, though. My best game with them involved the Tengris splintering into wars every two years and Persia's ruler dying early on so that his very young son was ruler for over a decade.
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Jun 4, 2013 02:04
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Another thing: It's ok to be conquered sometimes. The game doesn't end just because you're someones vassal. I did Gilan once and swore fealty to the Abassids, and ate half of mesopotamia when it splintered for a few years. I abandoned that playthrough after less than a century though. Too busy being a sperg and modding balance into the game. e: VVVV If you're planning on conquering the province at all it's better not to. You have a 10% chance of destroying a holding when you siegeloot it. (The chance to wreck a holding get's smaller the more buildings there are) Schizotek fucked around with this message at 02:16 on Jun 4, 2013 |
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Jun 4, 2013 02:13
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Is there ever a time not to loot? It seems like you can conquer holdings anyway and get a lot more gold out of them quicker?
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Jun 4, 2013 02:13
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I guess they really must've changed the combat system. I get my teeth kicked in by stacks half as big or smaller than mine semi-regularly despite using very able commanders with quality units. It's something of an quasi-uncommon nuisance.
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Jun 4, 2013 02:34
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What country and where? Because defensive pagans have other defensive bonuses besides attrition. Their levies also count as nearly double their size when inside their own territory, with bonuses to morale as well, I think. Tengri also get higher ratios of calvalry, which themselves come with an innate religion-wide damage bonus, in addition to any bonuses they get from buildings/special retinues. e: And be careful about sending in your levies too early, as they start with no morale, and if you consolidate your levies into a single army, all those miniarmies still keep their lovely morale and will break almost instantly even if the bar for the main army is nearly full. Baltic Pagan bonuses posted:land_morale = 0.8 Schizotek fucked around with this message at 02:52 on Jun 4, 2013 |
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Jun 4, 2013 02:43
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Has anyone had any success as either Icelandic ruler in 867? I can easily conquer my neighbour and unite Iceland within a few years but working my way up to becoming a king is proving much harder. My usual target for expansion is Ireland, but even a single-county ruler together with mercenaries and a local ally can put up a tough fight. I once managed to grab three counties in northern Ireland, but that ended when the King of Scotland declared holy war and invaded with his 10,000+ doomstack.
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Jun 4, 2013 02:57
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Schizotek posted:What country and where? Because defensive pagans have other defensive bonuses besides attrition. Their levies also count as nearly double their size when inside their own territory, with bonuses to morale as well, I think. Tengri also get higher ratios of calvalry, which themselves come with an innate religion-wide damage bonus, in addition to any bonuses they get from buildings/special retinues. It was a few Suomenusko uprisings, a Romunova opponent and a Slavic opponent, all against pagans on their home turf. A landless norse adventurer + his men have caused me grief as well. I'm pretty sure it was all these guys who've managed huge military upsets on me so far. I made sure to be consolidated at full morale with able commanders with appropriate commander traits. I've even supplemented with good Calvary retinues and mercenaries, but it didn't take. Still, it's good to know for future reference that these guys can be hardcore.
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Jun 4, 2013 02:57
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Torrannor posted:^^  well... I guess now there's a reason to go HCA.
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Jun 4, 2013 03:00
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I know I should roll with it, but I can't bring myself to continue a game where as soon as my king dies it erupts into massive revolts that I can't possibly put down. I guess my last ruler was only holding it together through his prestige or something. Also Ultimogeniture sucks if you want to keep a country together! Edit: Well. I decided to go with it. My life as the Viking King of Cyprus begins. Sankis fucked around with this message at 03:25 on Jun 4, 2013 |
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Jun 4, 2013 03:01
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Thought Constantinople would be a good place to farm techs, got sent back a blind spymaster.
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Jun 4, 2013 03:37
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Schizotek posted:Considering theres a total of 3, it's likely based on what sort of disaster your prefer. You can make a custom zorastrian ruler of Khiva, and be murdered by your sunni vassals. You can be Karen and be murdered by the persian blob and khiva, with a side order of Tengri, or you can be....Gilan is it? And be massacred by the Byzantines, Abassids, Persians, or Armenians. In every Gilan playthrough I've done, my main fear is the Saffarids after they finish gobbling up the satrapy of Karen. Even if I help the poor fella or swear fealty to him, he still gets his face curbstomped at some point, and the endless defensive wars really sap my manpower when I should be holy-warring all those Muslims around me.
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Jun 4, 2013 03:47
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So, I start a game as Holmgir Hammer, Chief of Bornholm, to get the hang of things in TOG. Holmgir raids Venice, Rome, Constantinople - earning the Viking trait, but also along the way picks up Scholar - not much else to do on the long journey home from the Med! Holmgir then joined an Independence faction, eventually breaking free of Denmark. Approaching 60, he prepared an invasion of Brittany, conquered the entire Kingdom, and converted to Catholicism, finally dying in his early 80s. Now Holmgir's cunning grandson, Richard Hammer, rules the most Catholic Duchy of Norman Brittany, and ponders on how to reunite the 4 fragmented kingdoms that lie to the East - West Francia, Burgundy, Aquitaine, and Lotharingia. Seriously... how can you not love this game?
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Jun 4, 2013 03:48
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I now know that if I play a designed Zoroastrian ruler, it'll have to be Freddy Mercury.
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Jun 4, 2013 04:17
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Contingency Plan posted:Has anyone had any success as either Icelandic ruler in 867? I can easily conquer my neighbour and unite Iceland within a few years but working my way up to becoming a king is proving much harder. My usual target for expansion is Ireland, but even a single-county ruler together with mercenaries and a local ally can put up a tough fight. I once managed to grab three counties in northern Ireland, but that ended when the King of Scotland declared holy war and invaded with his 10,000+ doomstack. Starting as Austisland I've managed to form the Scandinavian Empire and reform the religion. What I did, essentially, is start by taking over my neighbour and all the other little island counties nearby, and then raiding the poo poo out of everywhere until I had literally thousands of ducats. With that money you can hire mercs to help you subjugate either Norway or Ireland, depending on what's happened in Norway(in my game Ostetland or whatever they're called had already rolled over like half of Norway by this point so I just conquered Ireland while I waited for a rebellion I could take advantage of). You should try and take over Norway as fast as you possibly can, though, because Scotland loving hates it if you have any Irish territory and they will holy war the poo poo out of you forever(this was especially bad for me in my game because the kings of Scotland and England were brothers-in-law or something and Scotland would always get England to help, meaning 20-30k soldiers would come crashing down on me) and you can't actually hire enough mercs to win even if you have thousands of gold because there are like 3 available companies and one of them is the Varangian guard. Don't expect to actually keep Ireland for very long, just grab some Irish territory quick if you need extra manpower to take on whoever has become the big man over in Norway.
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Jun 4, 2013 04:19
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Torrannor posted:And people just need to either live with gavelkind (it is not so bad if you plan carefully, or just weather the 2 succession crises it takes until you get high crown authority) Gavelkind is broken. In my game last night, I had the Kingdom of Frisia, the Duchies of Brabant and Flanders, and 9 castles which included my capital of Brugges and its three minor holdings plus five other counties. When my ruler died, my first son got Frisia and the county of Zeeland. The second son got literally everything else, which was 2 duchies and 8 castles. That isn't something you just 'live with', it's a broken game mechanic.
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Jun 4, 2013 04:25
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How do you get enough dudes to counter the thousands of guys even the minor kingdoms can bring out? Like I have 5 territories and I'm feeling pretty about my 1500 guys as Petty King of Iceland, but anyone worth fighting has like three times that number and they're only slightly larger than I am.
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Jun 4, 2013 04:25
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thatdarnedbob posted:Gavelkind is broken. In my game last night, I had the Kingdom of Frisia, the Duchies of Brabant and Flanders, and 9 castles which included my capital of Brugges and its three minor holdings plus five other counties. When my ruler died, my first son got Frisia and the county of Zeeland. The second son got literally everything else, which was 2 duchies and 8 castles. That isn't something you just 'live with', it's a broken game mechanic.
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Jun 4, 2013 05:42
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Dauntasa posted:Starting as Austisland I've managed to form the Scandinavian Empire and reform the religion. Raiding is sick. With all the spare money you can develop all your holdings to the maximum allowable in no time at all. It's like going to Rome, stuffing it into a sack, and re-establishing it in Scandinavia boat load by boat load.
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Jun 4, 2013 05:43
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:How do you get enough dudes to counter the thousands of guys even the minor kingdoms can bring out? Like I have 5 territories and I'm feeling pretty about my 1500 guys as Petty King of Iceland, but anyone worth fighting has like three times that number and they're only slightly larger than I am. At a diplomatic level, preventative wars (i.e. Offering to join wars against threats to your own lands), especially those that break up or even replace the King are useful to prevent a situation in which your lack of men is a problem. You should also make judicious use of assassins - by hiring or plotting. Take out the enemy lord himself, or at the very least his marshal. Martial stat figures in to how many troops can be raised. In terms of increasing your own troops, assign your Marshal to Train Troops - it increases your levies. Having a high Martial stat marshal, and a high martial stat yourself is also good. Build Baronies rather than Cities or Churches in your territories. Oh, and check your Laws - you can increase your levies at the cost of upsetting your vassals. There's also always mercenaries, if you have the cash.
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Jun 4, 2013 05:51
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Gorelab posted:I now know that if I play a designed Zoroastrian ruler, it'll have to be Freddy Mercury. I ran into a kind of weird bug as a designed Zoroastrian, where my children were never my heir, instead defaulting to the half-sister of the base ruler of Karen.
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Jun 4, 2013 05:56
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