|
I have similar hours in Empire, but yes, it is the worst of the lot. Medieval 2 is dated, especially comming from Shogun 2, but it is still a fun game and has a fantastic mod scene and you should look through it for something that takes your fancy.
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2013 14:41
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 16:34 |
|
|
Empire is by far my favorite of the most recent games. Napoleon is pretty good, but lacks the really huge campaign world that Empire has. Japanese history/ninjas/samurais don't really interest me much, so Shogun 2 felt like a waste of nearly $100. Prior to these, I must have logged hundreds of hours into Medieval 2. Starting from the base game, then the Kingdoms expansions, and moving on the infinite world of mods, I think Medieval 2 has the most robust Total War experience. There used to be a mod for Medieval 2 called Stainless Steel that I considered as the must-have mod for this game.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2013 14:43
|
|
|
concerned mom posted:Has anyone else pre-ordered from Greenman? I did it ages ago but haven't received a CD Key. I'm guessing/hoping they send it out nearer the release date? Bit worried I've been lost in the system. You get it when the game is released as far as I know.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2013 14:43
|
|
|
Empire is/was plagued with problems, but it's ultimately unique in what it does do, so I can understand people latching onto it. Likewise Shogun 2 is a fantastic, polished game with well thought-out mechanics, but it can leave you cold if you don't have any grounding in the era or interest in Japanese history. (Everything I know about Sengoku Jidai I learned from video games. I'm only half kidding. Thank you Warriors games!) Like most people I spent way too much time playing Med 2. If it wasn't so dated at this point I'd probably still be playing it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2013 15:16
|
|
|
I really liked Empire but would not go so far as to call it a good game. But yeah, none of the other TW games really do what it attempts.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2013 16:08
|
|
Grand Fromage posted:I really liked Empire but would not go so far as to call it a good game. But yeah, none of the other TW games really do what it attempts. I kind of hope they'll try again after Rome 2 and get it right this time.
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2013 16:11
|
|
|
I am one of those three guys who really wants an ancient China game next but another shot at Empire would be fun.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2013 16:18
|
|
|
I get where everyone is coming from with the Empire criticism, but according to Steam it's still my most played TW game and I had a lot of fun  Admittedly this is probably because I like the setting, but still.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2013 16:25
|
|
|
Liking the setting is half the fun for TW games. Objectively I know shogun 2 is better than Rome 1 but even since I got Shogun 2 I've played more hours in Rome. It's just more fun to me due to the setting. Empire was a game where they tried a bunch of new concepts out, some worked, some didn't. I still play it occasionally but it hasn't had much replay value for me, although if I were more into the time period that would probably be different.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2013 16:32
|
|
|
Grand Fromage posted:I really liked Empire but would not go so far as to call it a good game. But yeah, none of the other TW games really do what it attempts. There's some decent mods out there that sorta salvage it, but even then it isn't great. I liked Napoleon's campaign mechanics much better, but it wasn't aesthetically all that great. Plus, I gotta get my 1776 action on somehow. CA, make Empire II, fix the diplomacy, punch up the graphics, spruce up you battle mechanics and stop the end-game from being so broken and I'll start loving you again.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2013 16:38
|
|
|
Why is Empire not as good as the others? I guess I don't get that. To me, the mechanics seem somewhat interchangeable... Unless I'm missing something. Again, I've only really spent a lot of time with Empire, Napolean and Shogun 2.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2013 16:45
|
|
|
Empire's use of three maps broke the hell out of the AI(It won't cross between them), and while the idea of major powers in Europe being rather immovable is interesting, the problem is, the one-province majors are still too easily conquered.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2013 16:52
|
|
|
I barely played it because the the campaign and battle AI both seemed terrible (even for total war games which is saying a lot) and the fighting didn't have any weight to it. Not just because it's mostly guns. I liked how fall of the samurai did it. It just didn't feel right in Empire. I guess if you like the setting you might be able to move past all that but for me even the total war games that feel outdated are still more fun to play.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2013 16:54
|
|
|
Tuxedo Jack posted:Why is Empire not as good as the others? I guess I don't get that. They made a new engine with a ton of new mechanics and they didn't figure out the shortfalls before they released it. Empire is basically a beta for Napoleon. I just wish they'd done it the other way around. In particular, the sieges are completely broken, and diplomacy and gunpowder stuff in general (i.e. the two things that make the period) aren't nearly refined enough. And I would really love a TW game set in China, it seems like such an obvious period. So many exotic weapons and so much diversity, I don't know why they haven't done it already. Something like BI with people on the frontiers picking apart the empire while China desperately tries to hold it together. I didn't like the Western Rome faction in BI but if they did it right it could be so much fun.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2013 17:00
|
|
|
I assume the reason they haven't done China is because they expect it'd have less mass appeal. Everyone's familiar with and loves knights and Romans, and most nerds like samurai, but unless you're a history geek you might not know or care much about what China was up to.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2013 17:09
|
|
|
I didn't care at all about the Boshin War before I played FotS; they can create interest in Chinese history by making a game about it  .
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2013 17:20
|
|
|
Koramei posted:I didn't care at all about the Boshin War before I played FotS; they can create interest in Chinese history by making a game about it I'd play that. I didn't know anything or care about Japanese history until I played Shogun 2, and I find it very interesting now. Personally, I'd like to see a Native American/Mesoamerican or Spanish colonization TW game.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2013 17:24
|
|
|
I really hope they have decent loading times for Rome 2. Because even after the fixes I spend probably half my game time staring at a loading bar.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2013 17:57
|
|
|
I'd play a Chinese History themed Total War game.
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2013 18:03
|
|
|
I'd love a China Total War. What I don't understand is why they haven't make a Total Civil War (American Civil War), or even have that as an expansion to Napoleon. I could understand if it simply the fact that CA is British and don't really give a drat about it... but that's a pretty big non gamer market. Empire had some Central America action but it totally sucked. Empire: 204 hours Napoleon: 153 hours Shogun 2: 604 hours 
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2013 18:04
|
|
|
I'm sure if they ever return to the 18th and 19th century next time those promises will be fulfilled. The new mechanics in both the campaign and battle map seem nothing but both user and AI friendly and Shogun 2 and the expansions were pretty drat awesome in retrospect.
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2013 18:06
|
|
|
I don't think gunpowder suits the genre very well. I wouldn't buy another gunpowder total war, you get no unit variety just better and worse men with guns. FoTS gets around this a bit by keeping a fair number of melee only units, but compared to rome or medieval or even vannila S2 you don't really see much variety in the battles. Just lines of dreary clones shooting each other or alternatively cannons causing mass routing before the line infantry get into range. I know next to nothing about the american civil war but I assume it was 99% line infantry, cannons and sabre cavalry.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2013 18:11
|
|
Laterbase posted:I don't think gunpowder suits the genre very well. I heavily disagree. It suits the game fine, the engine and AI needs to tweaked enough to make it cope with those changes. In general the same tactics are still there but the ranged side of things now holds more sway and depending on the era melee and numbers can still turn a battle around. What I hate about ETW as it seems to have turned a lot of people off from the era simply because the AI, game engine and art style all worked together to put people off.
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2013 18:14
|
|
|
Yeah, I got to disagree with gunpowder not being a fit for the genre. Just because gunpowder-era battle tactics were not as diverse or as much of a spectacle in terms of unit diversity doesn't mean they don't work in a war game. Admittedly I do love me some explosions and tons of gunfire, but whether people are getting heads chopped off or getting a lethal lead overdose, it's still a morbidly fascinating portrayal of war.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2013 18:20
|
|
|
I'd really like to see a Bronze Age total war but I guess spears and arrows might get a bit boring right? I would actually really like to see a fantasy Total War (so I guess like warhammer, but perhaps a new IP) that randomised the map every play. So you didn't know exactly what to do and where to go every game. Like Civ.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2013 18:26
|
|
|
concerned mom posted:I'd really like to see a Bronze Age total war but I guess spears and arrows might get a bit boring right? A Game of Thrones Total War would be pretty great. The CK2 mod is fun, but the actual battles in the TW engine would be amazing.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2013 18:29
|
|
|
I don't think the ACW would work without a few pretty significant additions to the campaign- supply lines, for one thing, and even then it'd be better as a mini-campaign like the Peninsular one. European intervention could be a really interesting mechanic though. And Bronze Age is going too far back (although there's a reasonable amount of variation in armies, actually), the factions just didn't have the logistical capabilities to make empires like in TW games. Early Iron Age would be really interesting though, and it is very unlike any period they've done yet.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2013 18:33
|
|
|
Tuxedo Jack posted:A Game of Thrones Total War would be pretty great. The CK2 mod is fun, but the actual battles in the TW engine would be amazing. I dunno about that, the main strength of the books isn't exactly the battles and I would prefer a new Medieval games to that since it would largely be the same. The Warring states in China would be pretty cool and a new Empire would be worth it just because of all the hilarious American nationalists trying to justify why glorious Murica  should be playable in the game like the months before Empire's release.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2013 18:39
|
|
|
A friend of mine became intrigued by Shogun 2 after seeing me play it the other day and is looking to get into it. Are there any good place to pick it up on the cheap right now? GMG seemed decently cheap but I thought I'd check in case anyone knew a better deal.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2013 18:56
|
|
|
Koramei posted:I don't think the ACW would work without a few pretty significant additions to the campaign- supply lines, for one thing, and even then it'd be better as a mini-campaign like the Peninsular one. European intervention could be a really interesting mechanic though. Aside from supply lines another problem is that TW is on the grand scale where the ACW was very much a fight of subtle maneuver and dominant geography. I think that the Rome 2 changes would support this but the scales would have to be screwed down to county size. I'm pretty stoked for Warhammer Total War too, I think it's a much better idea to use an existing IP as opposed to creating a new one. I like Got/ASoIaF but that's not really high fantasy in the strictest sense. As much as the fanboi inside me is tempted to go get CK for the GoT mod, CK looks boring as gently caress. Like, Iron Hearts level boring.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2013 19:03
|
|
|
DiHK posted:Aside from supply lines another problem is that TW is on the grand scale where the ACW was very much a fight of subtle maneuver and dominant geography. I think that the Rome 2 changes would support this but the scales would have to be screwed down to county size. You haven't enjoyed CK2 until you have a ruler sex up his daughter because he's lustful, then 18 years later do the same thing to the daughter that was born from his previous escapades. But in all seriousness, CK2 is legitimately a good game, and pretty much the first Paradox grand strategy game that is relatively easy to pick up. You can get it for super cheap these days as well. Goes on sale like every other week. If you go into it expecting battles like TW ones though, you'll be disappointed. You move armies around, they meet, numbers pop up and gradually go down, with little input from you.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2013 19:11
|
|
|
SeanBeansShako posted:I'd play a Chinese History themed Total War game. The Three Kingdoms period would be an awesome setting. There was a strategy game 10 years ago based in this period called Fate of the Dragon. It wasn't very good. It had some interesting mechanics, like sending peasants into barracks to be turned into soldiers, building horses independent of units and having them mount/dismount, and forward camps/supply lines in a RTS paced similar to Age of Empires 2. None of those worked very well. Edit: I forgot my favorite one. Loading a ballista with a kite full of troops and launching friendly soldiers over enemy walls. That was legit awesome. The setting was really historically cool though. A 60 year Thunderdome: 50 million enter, 18 million leave  . Also, repeating crossbows, cartoonishly large warships, and third century cavalry.
canyoneer fucked around with this message at 19:21 on Jun 4, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2013 19:11
|
|
|
Tuxedo Jack posted:A Game of Thrones Total War would be pretty great. The CK2 mod is fun, but the actual battles in the TW engine would be amazing. You could try the Westeros: Total War mod. I don't remember if its done, it wasn't last time I played/checked their site, but you can play one of the beta versions. The map is done and there's lot of interesting character traits and ancillary bonuses.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2013 19:29
|
|
|
Tuxedo Jack posted:I'd play that. I didn't know anything or care about Japanese history until I played Shogun 2, and I find it very interesting now. Personally, I'd like to see a Native American/Mesoamerican or Spanish colonization TW game. Kingdoms has a New World scenario and it kicks rear end.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2013 19:39
|
|
|
Mans posted:Kingdoms has a New World scenario and it kicks rear end. Yeah, I remember the Americas campaign. Lots of good moments running the Europeans out of the New World. In regards to an Asian-themed TW game, one mod for Medieval 2 that caught my eye was All Under Heaven, which takes place during the age of the Southern Song and the Jin Dynasty ( 1180–1280).  Here's a WIP map of the mod so far.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2013 19:49
|
|
|
China sounds cool but I'd prefer it if they did Medieval 3 after this, the medieval games are still my favorite and I'd love to have a medieval game with all of the more modern conveniences.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2013 19:57
|
|
|
SheepNameKiller posted:China sounds cool but I'd prefer it if they did Medieval 3 after this, the medieval games are still my favorite and I'd love to have a medieval game with all of the more modern conveniences.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2013 19:59
|
|
|
Empire is a bad game in that the diplomacy and AI is particularly nonsensical ("The Emperor of Austria would like to ask peace of the United Kingdom by exchanging Silesia for Scotland.") and some of the gameplay mechanics fall flat (Reinforcement in particular - pay lump sum, wait two turns, boom, you're all full no matter where you are, go forth and conquer again as much as you want). Empire is a good game in that you get to watch ranks of tricornes march to the fife and drum as your flag waves in the wind, your men stoically preparing to fire by platoon into the enemy line. The guy who said setting is half of the fun of Total War had it right - even though Empire objectively has the most problems with its gameplay, you can still get some fun out of it if you like the setting.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2013 21:13
|
|
|
I tried to get into Rome:EB but all of the enemies mostly stood around and waited for me to build up and kill them, at least when I played as Rome. They were so passive I stopped playing because I assumed I had installed it wrong and it was broken.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2013 21:35
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 16:34 |
|
|
Empire could have used better AI for sure, but it also could have had a run-through with a better interface. It was time-consuming and stupid how they set up the provinces with towns and universities kind of randomly placed around, and it was especially unwieldy if you expanded.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2013 21:43
|
|