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What am I missing about collections? I bought an Outrider Flight Jacket at some point, and it shows up as in my Collection. But the little icon that I thought you would click to dupe it/reclaim it/whatever just takes me back to the cartel shop where I guess I can just re-buy it? I thought I'd be able to just keep duping it for my companions. [e]Oh it says in the cartel market that additional copies can only be purchased with CC. What the? Why are some items reproducible but and others aren't?
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Jun 8, 2013 01:39
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Rascyc posted:What am I missing about collections? I bought an Outrider Flight Jacket at some point, and it shows up as in my Collection. But the little icon that I thought you would click to dupe it/reclaim it/whatever just takes me back to the cartel shop where I guess I can just re-buy it? It should be reproducible on the character you bought it on. A buddy of mine bought a speeder through the market and had a problem with not having a way to unlock it for his legacy. I've purchased a number of things in game that had originally come from cartel packs and have not had any issues making additional copies or unlocking it for legacy. What should happen is once the item is equipped, the box in the lower left corner should look like your inventory icon with 2 arrows. If I go to a different character the item is lit up there also, but that box is replaced with a different cartel coin icon. Clicking that opens up an option to purchase it for my legacy for a certain amount of coins. Once purchased a new icon shows up saying it has been opened for the legacy and the money icon is replaced by the inventory one. I've opened up color crystals, speeders, and an armor set to my legacy and haven't run into any issues yet. Maybe its an issue with the items that are purchased directly with cartel coins as opposed to what's in the packs?
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Jun 8, 2013 01:51
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The fact that I don't need to worry about LS/DS choices on my agent makes me feel a lot better. Wish that'd been clearer before, because some of the choices are, as mentioned, goddamn idiotic.
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Jun 8, 2013 02:13
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Ravenfood posted:The fact that I don't need to worry about LS/DS choices on my agent makes me feel a lot better. Wish that'd been clearer before, because some of the choices are, as mentioned, goddamn idiotic. I had one character i went pure lightside with (jedi knight, woo!), and a jedi consular i went pure darkside. Every other character i basically just choose the option that is either funniest or most useful to me at the time (dark side choice that saves you from having to do part of a flashpoint, for example). Ive enjoyed the stories more on the characters that werent locked in to a particular side. The relic thing is kind of dumb, but at end game it doesnt matter.
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Jun 8, 2013 02:29
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Stan S. Stanman posted:It should be reproducible on the character you bought it on. No, some items specifically state that even though they are in your collection, additional copies are only available from the market. I know from first-hand experience that the rank 7 offensive ship gear pack is like this; I bought it, equipped the gear and got the pack unlocked in my collections, but I cannot create additional copies or pay extra CC to unlock it across my legacy. It simply opens the market window where I can buy (at full price) another pack. Why even have an entry in the collections window in this case?
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Jun 8, 2013 02:36
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Does that jacket come with mods? Stuff with stats aren't reproducible.
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Jun 8, 2013 02:42
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Can I get an invite to That's No Goon? Character name is Sellesa.
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Jun 8, 2013 04:30
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Gasoline posted:Just the other day someone was complaining about spoilers in fleet general because someone asked if he should use Ashara or Andronikos. For all the games I've played, SWTOR really goes above and beyond with people getting outraged over the slightest hint of spoilerage. I once got ripped into when someone asked in general chat about what others preferred for playing Sith, dark or light and all I said was I was greatly enjoying doing Sith Warrior lightside since it was such a mess with your mind thing. Apparently that was too much of a spoiler.
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Jun 8, 2013 05:00
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Rascyc posted:Years of playing Bioware games have taught me that stopping to think about Bioware's take on "alignment" (for lack of a better word) is the path to insanity. This is true. My gripe isn't so much that Bioware writers have a different understanding of morality than I do, it's that their morality is not consistent. Maybe this is the case of multiple writers each projecting their own values into the same storyline, but some simple QA could have ensured some kind of internal storytelling logic. gently caress over the troopers in quest A = light side, gently caress them over in quest B = dark side. Why? Who cares, you have a lightsaber and an alien groupie!
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Jun 8, 2013 06:06
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The multiple writer thing is obvious. Whoever designed Hammer Station is sane - the choice is take prisoners at the cost of making your life harder or execute them to make life easier. And then there's Athiss. The choice is save a bunch of innocents at no cost to yourself or let them go insane and die for shits and giggles.
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Jun 8, 2013 14:15
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Red Crown posted:The multiple writer thing is obvious. Whoever designed Hammer Station is sane - the choice is take prisoners at the cost of making your life harder or execute them to make life easier. And then there's Athiss. The choice is save a bunch of innocents at no cost to yourself or let them go insane and die for shits and giggles. The conundrum is there, it's just a lot weaker. Ostensibly, if you leave them there and destroy the beacon there's zero chance of what's wrong with them leaving the planet.
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Jun 8, 2013 14:16
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Ossipago posted:This is true. My gripe isn't so much that Bioware writers have a different understanding of morality than I do, it's that their morality is not consistent. Maybe this is the case of multiple writers each projecting their own values into the same storyline, but some simple QA could have ensured some kind of internal storytelling logic. gently caress over the troopers in quest A = light side, gently caress them over in quest B = dark side. Why? Who cares, you have a lightsaber and an alien groupie! I was just in a quest with a few pals, and the Light/Dark consistency can flip flop between two whole conversion choices hilariously. Some rear end in a top hat has been killing like a bajillion Natives for sport, he's got personal hunting droids and compares the people to wildlife. My bounty hunter is being paid to stop him. Hmm, Darkside option is to NOT kill him because he will give me money, I like money-Oh wait the Light Side 'He must be stopped!' Teammate pick won out. ...And now, it is Darkside to kill Hobby Hitler, while lightside is to let them off with a stern warning, no third choice. You are Evil if you work for the guy murdering your clients for Sport, and you are evil if you kill the guy murdering your clients for sport. I. That.  EDIT: The slightest fairness, work for him was Darkside while the "no gently caress him" had no Light side, it was just continuing the conversation. While the next step of "Kill Murderer/Warn Murderer" was Morality points either way. Still, what the hell. Section Z fucked around with this message at 14:21 on Jun 8, 2013 |
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Jun 8, 2013 14:17
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Section Z posted:Also, if you use Lightning as a life saving defibrillator you are still evil." Force Lightning is a strictly Dark Side ability, according to Star Wars lore, if I'm not mistaken. FAKE EDIT: "Force lightning ability was not restricted to dark-siders. Jedi and other light-siders who were strong of will and character could learn this power without falling to the dark side—but its use was viewed as inherently corrupting, and most Jedi Councils forbade its use."
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Jun 8, 2013 14:50
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Doc Dee posted:Force Lightning is a strictly Dark Side ability, according to Star Wars lore, if I'm not mistaken. Most of the force powers are not inherently anything. Except in game mechanics. I really like the Revanites who actually realize that both sides should work together. I always wear my Revanite title with pride (Mainly because Revan was me.)
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Jun 8, 2013 15:18
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Oh, Sith Warrior light side  Just finished chapter 1 last night and Sith Warrior LS Chapter 1 spoilers it pretty much exceeded my expectations. I kinda wish Jaeesa's reaction to my character's alignment would've been more dramatic though, but it was delicious irony that her master was a psuedo Palpatine covering his true alignment (Or did I accidentally just get him so emotional according to the story?). Is Jaeesa's reaction to you caused by your actions in the class story (sparing her master, etc.) instead of actual alignment score? Could I still have turned her in the end? Can I *still* do it? I doubt it. Kinda delicious though, I personally thought that she would be a powerful boon for my aspiring "Sith Lord" to make her plans for changing the Empire come through. Also, it bothers me Jaeesa starts calling the protagonist a lord/master right away with no reservations. I mean, I expected more... official acknowledgement. (Well, I guess the kneeling back on Nal Hutta was kinda one). I just expected something akin of "This really doesn't feel right."-thing.I wonder if changing the Empire from within (or even creating somekind of refuge for decent folk or something) will pan out in any of the chapters. As  as it sounds, I'm reasoning my Sith light side characters (Sith Warrior and Agent so far) by this timeline video and the concept that if, for whatever reason Sith Empire would surrender this moment, there'd be way more casualties by a second massacre than there would be by keeping the Empire functioning "as it is"/changing it from within for the benefit for its citizens. It's by no means "reasonable" argument, though.The two jedi at the freighter where I was supposed to meet Jaeesa kind of struck me the wrong way. I wasn't able to say to the guy I defeated - The other one I persuaded out from having a fight - Is that optional or will it happen anyhow? - that "No, Dark Side isn't more powerful dude. I'm not even exploiting that side of the Force myself, damnit!" I feel it would've been more merciful just to end his days than let him corrupt himself. Shame I've been spoiled of the endgame concerning the Sith Emperor. Don't read unless you 100% realize what I'm talking about. Kinda wish I could face the Emperor in the end and call out him for his "plan". Also, is it just me, or is the playerbase considerably worse while leveling up than before? No DPS ever so far apart from a smart healer who has time to auto-attack has killed the weaker mobs first. It's more damage intake to the group, and it's likely it'll all end up at the healer. So I end up trying to tank two silvers, one gold/champion mob, while desperately trying to grab and kill all the normal mobs before the healer dies because the dps will NOT BOTHER killing normal mobs even if I spell it out.  It's somehow doubly infuriating if I have a sniper in my group because they have good range on top of it and that's what I did myself as a sniper. It's no big deal *yet*, but I can imagine it causing wipes once content gets tougher. I kind of like the fact the LFG is only server-wide, but then again queues are kind of instant most of the time with my juggernaut. My friends list is getting populated pretty fast with decent healers.Edit: Is there a way of capping the FPS apart from enabling Vertical Sync? My GFX card is killing itself. Dessel fucked around with this message at 15:43 on Jun 8, 2013 |
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Jun 8, 2013 15:27
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I find it's extremely rare to actually find pubbies who know what the gently caress they are supposed to do. They all see a silver enemy and figure he's strongest so he should get taken out first. They never CC on their own and they have the utmost trouble not breaking your CCs 
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Jun 8, 2013 15:32
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Isn't a major xp boost supposed to stack with rest xp? I had both on in a FP. My group was had neither and they were getting 248 xp per mob while I was only getting 495
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Jun 8, 2013 15:44
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Fathis Munk posted:Most of the force powers are not inherently anything. Except in game mechanics. This is the path to sperginess. Once you set foot down the sperg path, forever will it dominate your destiny. Seriously, nerd after nerd has argued one way or another on this. It's especially bad with RPers, who are known for their myopic views of reality. Hell, half of them can't agree that the Force is space magic, let alone how the Light and Dark side work. It might be funny if I hadn't (and still do, sometimes) gotten intensely invested in these arguments.
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Jun 8, 2013 16:04
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Warmachine posted:This is the path to sperginess. Once you set foot down the sperg path, forever will it dominate your destiny. Seriously, nerd after nerd has argued one way or another on this. It's especially bad with RPers, who are known for their myopic views of reality. Hell, half of them can't agree that the Force is space magic, let alone how the Light and Dark side work. Well it's just that Manichean systems are boring and thus I will always consider the force to be neutral  I'm not big on SW lore.
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Jun 8, 2013 16:08
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Doc Dee posted:Force Lightning is a strictly Dark Side ability, according to Star Wars lore, if I'm not mistaken. If I used a teddy bear to smother people to death it makes me bad, not the teddy bear. Force Lightning is a tool, you can force push someone off a cliff, doesn't make you a good guy. I think using force lightning to torture people in quests should trigger a dark alignment shift, and from memory it does, but don't think using the ability for defending yourself should be.
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Jun 8, 2013 16:37
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I don't think you ever have an option to use shock in self defense. It usually just goes straight to combat I have to defend the Athis morality choice a little. As an imperial character your options are to either alert your enemy to their missing survey team or not. It's makes sense to want to just purge the place and keep the republic from knowing about it and allow the reclamation service come in to do its thing. It's like the least cartoonishly evil thing my sin does. /inquisitor
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Jun 8, 2013 16:48
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Zvim posted:If I used a teddy bear to smother people to death it makes me bad, not the teddy bear. Force Lightning is a tool, you can force push someone off a cliff, doesn't make you a good guy. Only, your example doesn't hold true because the Teddy Bear is a manifestation of pure hate and rage, and without that intent to utterly destroy and smother the victim, you'd never have the Teddy Bear in the first place. The Force is space magic that operates on a different morality. It doesn't care for your intent. To call on Force Lightning, you must use dark emotions, and that leads all but the wisest individuals to the Dark Side. To compound the problem, both sides of the Force are semi-sentient. The light generally urges people to a long term, overarching goal of balance, while the Dark encourages selfishness and greed. And as an added bonus, the Dark Side's rush of power is comparable to an addictive drug, and even without the psychological problems that the user develops, there's always that desire for one more hit. There are other views, of course, but the vast majority of Star Wars lore proves them wrong, or the rare exception. Jolee Bindo is often cited as being able to use the Dark Side without becoming corrupted by it, but the same people who cite him forget that he was an exceptionally wise person, even by Jedi standards. He spent decades in seclusion, living a very simple existence and contemplating the lessons of his past. Basically, the universe that the Force exists in is one of absolute morality. There is definitive 'good' and 'evil.' It's like Dungeons and Dragons that way; spells with the Evil descriptor are Evil. Why? Because they draw on Evil power, and to call on that power makes you Evil.
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Jun 8, 2013 17:35
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Dessel posted:Also, is it just me, or is the playerbase considerably worse while leveling up than before? No DPS ever so far apart from a smart healer who has time to auto-attack has killed the weaker mobs first. It's more damage intake to the group, and it's likely it'll all end up at the healer. So I end up trying to tank two silvers, one gold/champion mob, while desperately trying to grab and kill all the normal mobs before the healer dies because the dps will NOT BOTHER killing normal mobs even if I spell it out.  In fact it's usually the only entertaining thing to do! For the record I've had probably close to nothing but good groups while leveling through content. I had one bad group that I just left on before the first pull because I got the vibe. I had one bad group whose targeting was all sorts of messed up and I eventually just told them to do it this way if only to make trash pulls go faster (I hate the Colocoid wargame instance) Honestly it's been a pretty swell experience but I do heal every single instance. Not once has LFG given me my DPS role on my Operative. I did have a very hairy HK boss fight once when everyone said afterwards it was their first time doing the fight and had no idea what to do about the adds. One guy even got pressed down by the core, haha. Rascyc fucked around with this message at 17:58 on Jun 8, 2013 |
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Jun 8, 2013 17:54
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goons posted:jibber jabber about morality re: the force I've always taken the light/dark side view as just an artificial creation of force users projecting their own morality onto what sorts of actions involving the force are exhibited by those with whatever sorts of morals. Abilities that are helpful, useful, and not exclusively lethal are therefore LIGHTSIDE! (healing, etc.) Controlling folks' minds one way or the other, moving stuff around and such? Everyone abuses the poo poo out of this, so its neutral. (mind trick, battle meditation, force telekinesis, force speed, etc.) Stuff that pretty much is awesome for murderin' folks and all that? DARKSIDE! (Lightning, choking, other fun stuff) So while you can heal a dying rear end in a top hat dictator to make sure he keeps genociding the heck out of the galaxy, or lightning shock a generator for keep a pediatric cancer ward running, it doesn't mean a drat thing. Star Wars logic says they are Light and Dark actions respectively, just because the manner in which the force is manipulated says so. It's like saying an allied soldier in WW2 picking up a Panzerschrek to take out a Tiger is automatically a Nazi. I like this gem: QuiGon tries to trick a dude into accepting what they both know is worthless, regional currency to buy some poo poo. That's like trying to trick a guy in an isolated amazonian tribe into accepting a stack of Benjamins for half of his medicine supply. The only real manifestations of the light and dark that we see in the lore are individuals who let themselves be molded by their ethics, artifacts/manses of said folks with bits of their personality tucked in them, crap like that. Its all loving gray, I tell you. The force is just another fundamental force of the universe for the Star Wars setting, like electricity, magnetism, gravity and whatnot. Some know how to gently caress with it, others don't. Its what you do with it and what the results are that you judge, not the means. Fake Edit: Also, gently caress yeah tanking specs! Love being able to take on anything, anytime. Blasphemaster fucked around with this message at 18:01 on Jun 8, 2013 |
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Jun 8, 2013 17:58
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Blasphemaster posted:Controlling folks' minds one way or the other, moving stuff around and such? Everyone abuses the poo poo out of this, so its neutral. (mind trick, battle meditation, force telekinesis, force speed, etc.) I think its one of the Thrawn trilogy books that has Luke using effectively battle meditation (not called that of course) and having to strongly resist the urge to just crush the pilot's minds. The "dark side" was supposed to be about using the force for personal gain and without regard for others. Throwing rocks or sand blasting people should be just as dark side as lightning.
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Jun 8, 2013 18:06
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Dessel posted:Oh, Sith Warrior light side...Jaesa etc... Whether or not Jaesa is light or dark depends on your alignment when you get her. If you're light at the time then she will only ever be light, and vice versa. She never changes alignment apart from that initial conversation. If you're neutral at the time you can actually choose between the two, but it's still a one time choice.
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Jun 8, 2013 18:14
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hobbesmaster posted:The "dark side" was supposed to be about using the force for personal gain and without regard for others. Throwing rocks or sand blasting people should be just as dark side as lightning. Pretty much that, yeah. Hell, it'd be great to see if in the next trilogy that Disney trundles along our way would feature a middle-ground faction that uses every power of the light and dark to keep the Jedi and Sith from loving everything up. I actually tried to do something along those lines in a PlayByPost a while ago on another forum that was going pretty good until college got in the way, RL made a few players drop, etc., sad since it had a lot of promise.
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Jun 8, 2013 18:37
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Blasphemaster posted:Pretty much that, yeah. Hell, it'd be great to see if in the next trilogy that Disney trundles along our way would feature a middle-ground faction that uses every power of the light and dark to keep the Jedi and Sith from loving everything up. I actually tried to do something along those lines in a PlayByPost a while ago on another forum that was going pretty good until college got in the way, RL made a few players drop, etc., sad since it had a lot of promise. Wookieepedia on : Gray Jedis quote:The term Gray Jedi, or Gray, had two meanings. First, it was used by Jedi and Sith to describe Force-users who walked the line between the light and dark sides of the Force without surrendering to the dark side, and second, it described Jedi who distanced themselves from the Jedi High Council and operated outside the strictures of the Jedi Code. However, those who were considered to be true Gray Jedi met both qualifications and did not belong to any particular Force tradition. One example was Jolee Bindo, a former Jedi Padawan and self-proclaimed Gray Jedi of the Old Republic. quote:The term was sometimes used to refer to unorthodox or dissident Jedi who did not meet the strictest requirements of being a Gray Jedi. For example, the Jedi Qui-Gon Jinn was thought of by some members of the Jedi Order as a Gray Jedi for his disagreements with the High Council. Wookieepedia on : Order of Revan quote:According to the Order's followers, Revan had drawn upon the strength of passion coupled with tranquility, took allies from both Humans and aliens, and enlisted the aid of the weak and the strong. I'd love to see some Gray Jedis.
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Jun 8, 2013 18:50
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I wasn't all that impressed by the power of the force in balance though.
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Jun 8, 2013 18:52
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Warmachine posted:Only, your example doesn't hold true because the Teddy Bear is a manifestation of pure hate and rage, and without that intent to utterly destroy and smother the victim, you'd never have the Teddy Bear in the first place. Yes, this is pretty much right in my opinion. Remember guys, the Force is energy created by living beings and is connected to everyone, and so when you use that energy in destructive ways it corrupts the Force and the user. This is why Yoda himself said 'A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense... never for attack.' The darkside isn't anything about morality or logic. Its an actual thing that works in a certain way, even if its dumb. Yes, logically you should be able to use lightning in good ways, but that ignores that the darkside is a real loving thing. It isn't anything to do with morality, its corrupted energy that is literally evil. Places strong in the darkside have been known to turn people insane. Using the darkside itself more or less does turn you insane. This was actually a point in the EU. One of Han and Leia's kids thought that logically he could use the darkside to do good things. But he couldn't and went bonkers (even though that story sucked and would have been better if they played it straight). Its one of the aspects that makes it seductive. Of course I wouldn't be corrupted! I'll only use it for good things. Urgh, why can't they understand! The-they're leaving me no choice! You're with me or against me! Etc etc. The only reason why Jedi gently caress poo poo up with the Force in modern SW is because its cool. Which is a pretty good reason to be honest. Who didn't fist bump when Satale pancaked Malgus in that one trailer like a boss? Other than dirty imperials of course..... Edit: Hell, this is why Sidious using Lightning in the original films was so powerful and evocative. Because its such a rank corruption of the Force. Nephthys fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Jun 8, 2013 |
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Jun 8, 2013 18:56
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hobbesmaster posted:I wasn't all that impressed by the power of the force in balance though. I still think there is going to be a super hard operation with Revan as the final boss, fully powered up. Such a waste to have him used as he is.
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Jun 8, 2013 18:59
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I needed to refresh myself on canon levels before making this argument, but generally speaking RPG sourcebooks are considered canon as far as background info about the universe goes, but statistics and mechanics are not since they may be manipulated to create a playable game. When I get spergy about Star Wars, I generally refer back to the Wizards of the Coast Star Wars RPGs, where it is stated that the Jedi view of the Force is the most correct view, and while many other traditions have good interpretations of the Force, they tend to miss the mark more often than not. That's obviously paraphrasing, but with a few exceptions, it's been stated pretty firmly in canon that there is a light and dark side, and that there are dark side powers.  Also, the Order of Revan (and Revan himself in SWTOR) were dark side Force users. Genociding 98% of a population is not, by anyone's measure, an act a Light (or even "Grey") sider would do. "You're just another fallen Jedi, and more deluded than most." -Cipher 9 Medullah posted:I still think there is going to be a super hard operation with Revan as the final boss, fully powered up. Such a waste to have him used as he is. I disagree. I'm glad to see him torn down a peg or two. I think my little headcanon of Cipher 9 going in and wrecking his poo poo is probably the best Revan deserved. Edit: Should clarify that I disagree with him being laid low by an Imperial strike team. I agree that there will probably be something in the future featuring him. Probably as some kind of godlike Force Ghost because  .
Warmachine fucked around with this message at 19:10 on Jun 8, 2013 |
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Jun 8, 2013 19:01
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To be fair, sharing his mind for 300 years with a man so evil he makes Sith Lords poo poo their pants upon psychic contact probably wasn't that great for Revans chippy attitude.
Nephthys fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Jun 8, 2013 |
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Jun 8, 2013 19:07
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Blasphemaster posted:So while you can heal a dying rear end in a top hat dictator to make sure he keeps genociding the heck out of the galaxy, or lightning shock a generator for keep a pediatric cancer ward running, it doesn't mean a drat thing. Star Wars logic says they are Light and Dark actions respectively, just because the manner in which the force is manipulated says so. It's like saying an allied soldier in WW2 picking up a Panzerschrek to take out a Tiger is automatically a Nazi. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Form_VII:_Juyo_/_Vaapad Mostly true, but there are exceptions. Mace Windu was able to channel Darkside powers without being darkside himself. He basically got all Bene Gesserit to do it tho.
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Jun 8, 2013 19:10
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Nephthys posted:Durr hurr Thanks for the spoiler, jerk.
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Jun 8, 2013 19:29
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Warmachine posted:Edit: Should clarify that I disagree with him being laid low by an Imperial strike team. I agree that there will probably be something in the future featuring him. Probably as some kind of godlike Force Ghost because Of course that wasn't really Revan because Revan is a woman.
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Jun 8, 2013 19:38
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Monni posted:Thanks for the spoiler, jerk. Not entirely sure why I'm being called out while everyone else is openly talking about Revan spoilers but I apologise and have spoilered it just in case.
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Jun 8, 2013 20:04
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Nephthys posted:Not entirely sure why I'm being called out while everyone else is openly talking about Revan spoilers but I apologise and have spoilered it just in case. Not to mention that happens in a book from before the game starts.
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Jun 8, 2013 20:05
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Nephthys posted:Not entirely sure why I'm being called out while everyone else is openly talking about Revan spoilers but I apologise and have spoilered it just in case. Fairly sure he was being factious since we were just talking about how pubbies in SWTOR are super sensitive about spoilers compared to other games.
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Jun 8, 2013 20:10
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Warmachine posted:Fairly sure he was being factious since we were just talking about how pubbies in SWTOR are super sensitive about spoilers compared to other games. Thats mean. I felt really bad. If I jump its completely his fault.
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Jun 8, 2013 20:22
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