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kid sinister posted:What kind of valves? Magic/more magic.
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Jun 9, 2013 00:26
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kid sinister posted:What kind of valves? You tell me.  There is one in a closet and one behind the bar.
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Jun 9, 2013 03:42
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Shifty Pony posted:You tell me. Looks like that might be for an older radiator system.
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Jun 9, 2013 04:21
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That can't be right, there are only two spots where the valves are and radiator heating systems are practically unheard of in central Texas houses of this age. Somehow the outlets are reading as being properly wired but I find that impossible to believe because there are only three ground wires visible in the panel. I suppose I need to yank an outlet to confirm what I am sure of: they just tied the common to ground. But to do that it wold be best to cut off the breaker yet everything i've read says not to "exercise" FEP breakers or their failure rate skyrockets.
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Jun 9, 2013 04:44
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Have you confirmed that it's for water? Maybe it's (or was once) some kind of gas or propane thing. No idea why that kind of thing would exit in a closet, though.
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Jun 9, 2013 05:52
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Yeah, maybe it's gas! Turn it on and find out. 
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Jun 9, 2013 06:24
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It wouldn't hurt to turn it on for a moment to see if it's gas or water. If it's angry wasps, however...
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Jun 9, 2013 11:25
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My thinking is that it is a CO2 supply for the bar. Put the cylinder and regulator in the closet and have more room at the bar for delicious drink storage.
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Jun 9, 2013 12:51
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DNova posted:It wouldn't hurt to turn it on for a moment to see if it's gas or water. If it's angry wasps, however... Wrong size. Luckily it's also too small for fire ants. Caterpillars maybe?
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Jun 9, 2013 15:23
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Shifty Pony posted:That can't be right, there are only two spots where the valves are and radiator heating systems are practically unheard of in central Texas houses of this age. Ahh. Yes I wasn't unaware of your location. Also yea FEP just makes anxiety out of everything.
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Jun 9, 2013 15:30
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Shifty Pony posted:My thinking is that it is a CO2 supply for the bar. Put the cylinder and regulator in the closet and have more room at the bar for delicious drink storage. This is my guess too. The previous owner must have had his own tap.
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Jun 9, 2013 15:31
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kid sinister posted:This is my guess too. The previous owner must have had his own tap. Now it's time for you to install your own tap! Put those valves to work!
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Jun 9, 2013 16:23
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ShadowStalker posted:Now it's time for you to install your own tap! Put those valves to work! No, I need the dual gas lines on my regulator so I can serve different beer styles. Oh yeah it is worth mentioning that I already have a kegerator and homebrew. The bar will be functional. I just wish that for once I were wrong about the electrical:   At the very least the bathrooms and kitchen are going to be sporting some new GFCI outlets once my budget recovers from moving.
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Jun 9, 2013 17:27
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Shifty Pony posted:You tell me.
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Jun 9, 2013 17:44
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Shifty Pony posted:No, I need the dual gas lines on my regulator so I can serve different beer styles. Oh yeah it is worth mentioning that I already have a kegerator and homebrew. The bar will be functional. So put the CO2 bottle in the closet, and put your regulator at the bar? Either way you get the CO2 bottle out of the area, which is nice.
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Jun 9, 2013 18:04
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Bad Munki posted:So put the CO2 bottle in the closet, and put your regulator at the bar? Either way you get the CO2 bottle out of the area, which is nice. I doubt those pipes could take the full pressure coming out of the bottle, especially if they're ancient and designed for regulated pressure - CO2 canisters can output upwards of 800 PSI.
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Jun 9, 2013 18:39
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Oh, true, that's a good point.
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Jun 9, 2013 18:40
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Shifty Pony posted:At the very least the bathrooms and kitchen are going to be sporting some new GFCI outlets once my budget recovers from moving. Wait, you said it was a rental. Is it a rent-to-own or something? Or just considering basic safety part of your "Other" expenses category?
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Jun 9, 2013 22:49
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Splizwarf posted:Wait, you said it was a rental. Is it a rent-to-own or something? Or just considering basic safety part of your "Other" expenses category? I am not comfortable living in a place with non grounded non GFCI outlets next to water and where the breakers may not properly trip, even if I have to pay for and install the fixes myself. They are a snap to install anyway, the hardest part will be figuring out which way the daisy chained outlet connections run so I can install the GFCI in the proper location to protect the other outlets in the kitchen or bath, without overload. Mystery valves were natural gas, for anyone genuinely curious.
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Jun 10, 2013 02:44
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Shifty Pony posted:Mystery valves were natural gas, for anyone genuinely curious. Hooray! Where's my prize? Also, what is a natural gas line doing in a closet? Think maybe there was once a gas water heater in there or something?
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Jun 10, 2013 02:50
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Sagebrush posted:Hooray! Where's my prize? Think of it like an entomologist's killing jar, but fun size.
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Jun 10, 2013 03:14
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Shifty Pony posted:I am not comfortable living in a place with non grounded non GFCI outlets next to water and where the breakers may not properly trip, even if I have to pay for and install the fixes myself. They are a snap to install anyway, the hardest part will be figuring out which way the daisy chained outlet connections run so I can install the GFCI in the proper location to protect the other outlets in the kitchen or bath, without overload. That's what I expected, but in that case why aren't you replacing the known-murderous breaker box? No harder, just more time-consuming, and honestly if you knew your breaker box was good, would GFCIs be as big a priority? I applaud your willingness to put your life before your money and pride, a lot of people just... won't.
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Jun 10, 2013 03:59
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Splizwarf posted:No harder, just more time-consuming Disagree. If he replaces it he has to bring it up to code. That could potentially mean re-wiring entire downstream circuits or more. Replacing a non grounded outlet with a GFCI outlet is always OK and does not cause you to have to do other work.
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Jun 10, 2013 04:04
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Sagebrush posted:Also, what is a natural gas line doing in a closet? Think maybe there was once a gas water heater in there or something? It really only raises further questions doesn't it? The water heater is on the opposite side of the house in the original utility closet. I don't know if they were run through the slab or through the attic. That brings up another peculiarity of the house: it has a slab foundation, yet was built at the same time (~1952, for some reason i keep thinking 1960s) as surrounding houses that have pier and beam construction. I'm guessing it was a one-off semi-custom job. At least I certainly hope there are no more houses like it! edit: also in the future (a few years perhaps) if I am cool with the neighbors I may make an offer on the place. The owner tried to sell it a year ago but went to renting it out instead. Shifty Pony fucked around with this message at 04:57 on Jun 10, 2013 |
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Jun 10, 2013 04:08
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Leperflesh posted:Disagree. If he replaces it he has to bring it up to code. That could potentially mean re-wiring entire downstream circuits or more. Replacing a non grounded outlet with a GFCI outlet is always OK and does not cause you to have to do other work. But how will he disconnect the outlets to work on them? I mean, he probably should bring it up to code I guess, but from a practical perspective I don't see why he'd need to alter downstream circuits much if he were simply replacing all the breakers and their housing box. They're just big re-useable inline fuses.
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Jun 10, 2013 06:11
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Splizwarf posted:But how will he disconnect the outlets to work on them? OK I'm not a contractor or a lawyer or whatever, so this is just my understanding. But basically there's kind of a rule where you can leave horrible old wiring in place as long as you don't touch it at all. But if you modify any of it you have to bring all of it up to code. Pulling out the old breaker box would presumably involve touching the ends of all of the wiring connected to it, so I assume that could mean replacing all of it. I could be wrong about what's involved in pulling the whole breaker box, of course. As for how to turn off the outlets, can't you just throw the main breaker switch? That's what I did when I replaced some of my outlets with GFCI. Of course, I don't have STA-BLOCK I don't think.
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Jun 10, 2013 07:20
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Shifty Pony posted:It really only raises further questions doesn't it? The water heater is on the opposite side of the house in the original utility closet. I don't know if they were run through the slab or through the attic. That brings up another peculiarity of the house: it has a slab foundation, yet was built at the same time (~1952, for some reason i keep thinking 1960s) as surrounding houses that have pier and beam construction. I'm guessing it was a one-off semi-custom job. Well now you have a gas hookup for your secret moonshine still!
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Jun 10, 2013 08:38
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Jordanis posted:I think we may have this exact same fixture in our dining room. I also have the same fixture in my dining room, I bought it from Home Depot about a year ago to replace the absolute piece of poo poo fixture that was there when I moved in (only took me eight years to get around to it). I think it was around $60 or so. I like it, would not install it in a bathroom though. Who does that?
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Jun 10, 2013 15:46
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Leperflesh posted:OK I'm not a contractor or a lawyer or whatever, so this is just my understanding. But basically there's kind of a rule where you can leave horrible old wiring in place as long as you don't touch it at all. But if you modify any of it you have to bring all of it up to code. Pulling out the old breaker box would presumably involve touching the ends of all of the wiring connected to it, so I assume that could mean replacing all of it. That's the code in most places: if you upgrade one piece of an electrical system, then everything downstream of it has to be brought up to code too. That would mean even more necessary upgrades: ground wires everywhere, AFCI and GFCI protection, a couple more kitchen circuits, exterior outlets at the front and back doors, certain appliances now needing dedicated circuits... And of course you can turn off the main breaker to turn off outlets. However, most people don't like going around resetting all of their digital clocks when you just have to turn off one breaker. Do the old single-person electrician's trick. Plug in a radio to the offending outlet, turn it up loud enough to hear at the panel, and start flipping breakers until you hear it turn off. Shifty Pony posted:Mystery valves were natural gas, for anyone genuinely curious. That's where I recognized those valves from! The old ones for chemistry class Bunsen burners. kid sinister fucked around with this message at 20:26 on Jun 10, 2013 |
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Jun 10, 2013 20:20
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kid sinister posted:That's where I recognized those valves from! The old ones for chemistry class Bunsen burners. Meth lab spotted.
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Jun 10, 2013 20:25
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kid sinister posted:Do the old single-person electrician's trick. Plug in a radio to the offending outlet, turn it up loud enough to hear at the panel, and start flipping breakers until you hear it turn off. ...And then verify that there is no power on the line/outlet you're working on by using an appropriate tool. I have a "receptacle tester" which tests for current and also indicates if either blade/the ground is wrong/backwards/not grounded; and, a "voltage tester" which looks like this:  I can put that next to a line and it tells me if there's power in it. With all such tools I always verify it's working by testing a known-live line, and I always use it only as a backup/confirmation that power I have personally shut off is definitely shut off. I also always tape a sign to my breaker box which says "DO NOT TOUCH: WORKING ON LINES" even though nobody else should have any reason to go near my breaker box, just because I'm kind of paranoid about poo poo like that (my breaker box is on the outside of my house and accessible from the street).
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Jun 10, 2013 21:38
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Leperflesh posted:(my breaker box is on the outside of my house and accessible from the street).  What is your address?
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Jun 10, 2013 21:41
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I don't know poo poo about electricity but I was somewhat surprised by the fact that I couldn't get my vestibule lamp to appear 'dead' (the opposite of live?) when using a tester pen no matter what positions the two switches were in.
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Jun 10, 2013 21:41
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DNova posted:
I live in a residential development built in the late 1950s in Concord, CA. The box is on the side of the house, but it's on the street side of the fence that fences off my back yard. It's a couple feet from the meter and directly below the drop where pole power enters the house. Seems like a pretty convenient place for it, really.
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Jun 10, 2013 22:31
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Leperflesh posted:I live in a residential development built in the late 1950s in Concord, CA. The box is on the side of the house, but it's on the street side of the fence that fences off my back yard. It's a couple feet from the meter and directly below the drop where pole power enters the house. Seems like a pretty convenient place for it, really. It's locked, right? I mean it's not rare here to have them outside the house but not freely accessible to passers-by.
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Jun 10, 2013 22:48
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Jerry Cotton posted:I don't know poo poo about electricity but I was somewhat surprised by the fact that I couldn't get my vestibule lamp to appear 'dead' (the opposite of live?) when using a tester pen no matter what positions the two switches were in. I'd guess single pole switches on the wrong side (switching N) or you're in a country with no true neutral (switching one of the Ls), either case will put around 120-230V potential at the lamp compared to ground even though no current is flowing. In theory you can touch the lamp terminals and be fine, but if you're in contact with anything else that's grounded you risk shocking yourself, IIRC you're always supposed to pull the fuse when working on those (really all the time) and short out the nearest outlet to where you're working with a piece of wire.
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Jun 10, 2013 22:51
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Leperflesh posted:I live in a residential development built in the late 1950s in Concord, CA. The box is on the side of the house, but it's on the street side of the fence that fences off my back yard. It's a couple feet from the meter and directly below the drop where pole power enters the house. Seems like a pretty convenient place for it, really. I'd want to at least lock the breaker while I'm working on that circuit: 
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Jun 10, 2013 22:54
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longview posted:I'd guess single pole switches on the wrong side (switching N) or you're in a country with no true neutral (switching one of the Ls), either case will put around 120-230V potential at the lamp compared to ground even though no current is flowing. I just made sure not to touch two wires at the same time and I'm still alive. I don't even know where the fuse box is  (I'm renting an apartment in a three-apartment house)The house was built in 1909 by the way. They had to break into a switch box that had a smith-made lock to connect my ADSL.
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Jun 10, 2013 22:57
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My house is 1950s vintage as well, and it too has the box on the outside in the back yard. If not for a fence, it would be street accessible.
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Jun 11, 2013 01:22
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Leperflesh posted:OK I'm not a contractor or a lawyer or whatever, so this is just my understanding. But basically there's kind of a rule where you can leave horrible old wiring in place as long as you don't touch it at all. But if you modify any of it you have to bring all of it up to code. Pulling out the old breaker box would presumably involve touching the ends of all of the wiring connected to it, so I assume that could mean replacing all of it. That rule does not apply to replacing the panel box. Everywhere that I know of you can replace a panel without triggering the upgrade requirement on all the connected branch circuits. The most I have ever seen is that one (expensive suburb) city near me requires when a panel replacement is done that all the kitchens and baths get GFCI receptacles and the house has at least one modern hard-wired smoke detector per floor installed.
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Jun 11, 2013 05:12
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