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SeanBeansShako posted:Aside from the really weird design choice to have the blood fly up and cover your camera which you can disable with a mod it is alright. I always thought they were going for a very anime looking blood spraying everywhere type ordeal.
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Jun 10, 2013 04:05
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Jakeman52 posted:I always thought they were going for a very anime looking blood spraying everywhere type ordeal. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brzykBbzYOQ People oughta know their movie history. 
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Jun 10, 2013 07:53
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In that preview article, the camel archers look really wrong, plus in the distance there are camel riders with shield and lance. I do know a little bit of earlier Arabs (if they were supposed to be that), then camel archers usually fought unarmored and half naked, besides i never read of an account where a guy would charge on top of a camel, it simply doesn't have the momentum a horse could provide for a lance charge. Camels made very good transport for mobile infantry if you wanna get anal about the detail. MY IMMERSION
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Jun 10, 2013 10:59
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Jerusalem posted:Yeah this is how I feel too, I tried out Empire and just couldn't get into it. It's part of the reason I was so excited about Rome 2 - no guns! I couldn't disagree more. In my mind, Napoleon is far and away the best TW. The only thing better would be if they had remade all the terrible clunky bits of Empire in Napoleon's engine. And I loved Rome, while I thought both medievals, while my favorite time period, to be unresponsive to the point of infuriating. The only thing I'd rather see than Rome 2, is Empire 2, or the American Civil War. Followed in turn by Medieval 3. Also, if no one has mentioned it, GMG has the Rome 2 pre-order for $45 right now. Likely the best price we're going to see and it includes the day 1 DLC BS greek city states whatever pack. RVT fucked around with this message at 11:21 on Jun 10, 2013 |
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Jun 10, 2013 11:18
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Anyone know of gore mods for say, Medieval 2? It'd be pretty badass to have during the British Isles campaign.
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Jun 10, 2013 15:57
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I finished Napoleon's Italian campaign on easy/easy (babby's first TW game). Moved on to Egypt bumping up the difficulty to Normal/Normal. Egypt, thus far, is an incredible campaign. The battles have such a rad soundtrack. Thumping roundshot long distance into melee infantry has been a hoot. I lost Cairo to rebels, and had a devil of a time retaking it. I came with a general, a few half-strength line infantry units, 3 6-pounder cannon crews, and a light cavalry supported by camel cavalry. Total of 1,000 men vs. 2,500 (cannons, swordsmen, Mameluke heavy cav, militia, and a general). One of my cannons got bugged out and stuck on a hill  . In the end, all of my units were routed/killed but my general with 6 bodyguards and two full cannon crews. We faced off against the last remaining cannon crew and the general with 15 bodyguards. Having the elevation advantage, the enemies took a handful of close range/point blank canister shots. Then the swordbearing cannon crew fought to the bitter end with their swords."Heroic Victory". Final results were all but 200 of my men were lost, with a complete loss on all the rebels. This game owns.
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Jun 10, 2013 15:59
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And just wait, you still have the Ottoman Empire to deal with. I frigging love all the Campaigns in Napoleon. I hope with Rome they have some bad rear end loading screens like it had too.
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Jun 10, 2013 16:06
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Tomn posted:Man, what is it about the Renaissance that makes people violently opposed to it? You don't really see anyone doing the same thing with pretty much all other time periods - even the objections to WW1 and beyond is mostly "I don't think it would work..." instead of "I would NEVER play such a game!" Musings about a Chinese setting? You get some interest, a few shoulder-shrugs. Contemplation of the ACW? Some debate about whether it'd work and how it'd work. Revisiting any of the settings already covered? Some disappointment, some excitement. But bring up the Renaissance and suddenly there's people saying "No, never, NEVER ever!" Why is that? It's probably appears as a boring period to some. To me its a very interesting era and i would love to bring Suleiman's Ottomans to victory over Vienna.
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Jun 10, 2013 16:37
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Vengarr posted:I don't think pike and shot makes for compelling gameplay, mostly. This. It's essentially combining the two most boring parts of warfare in Total War (phalanxes and early firearms) into a very boring form of warfare. The scope of Empire was great because it starts with Renaissance Era tech and then your gameplay options rapidly expand as better tactics and weapons are unlocked. The scope of Medieval is great because it starts with spearmen and shield-walls and then takes you through the era of the armoured knight before introducing firearms and pushing your army composition towards the renaissance era style. But the Renaissance era itself? It's certainly a period of time where things happened, but as an isolated era of miliary development it's really quite boring and sandwiched between two much better eras.
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Jun 10, 2013 17:05
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You've convinced me to reinstall Napoleon. Recommended mods please?
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Jun 10, 2013 17:16
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Alchenar posted:But the Renaissance era itself? It's certainly a period of time where things happened, but as an isolated era of miliary development it's really quite boring and sandwiched between two much better eras. But pike and shot is the period best-suited to letting folks who like playing with gunpowder play with gunpowder, while folks who'd rather not can still get away with armies of pikes and swords and crossbows and lances and so forth. It's perfectly doable to either field a primarily gunline army or charge headlong into an opposing units with a flash of steel. The variety of viable tactics and units makes the 16th and 17th centuries an appealing period for Total War-style games, imo.
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Jun 10, 2013 17:18
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Ofaloaf posted:But pike and shot is the period best-suited to letting folks who like playing with gunpowder play with gunpowder, while folks who'd rather not can still get away with armies of pikes and swords and crossbows and lances and so forth. It's perfectly doable to either field a primarily gunline army or charge headlong into an opposing units with a flash of steel. The variety of viable tactics and units makes the 16th and 17th centuries an appealing period for Total War-style games, imo. I have to agree with this guy, plus on the fringes of Europe (Ireland for example) you still have guys fighting in a late medieval manner. Plus mercenaries! Your armies would be so multinational they could make a whole mini game out of that.
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Jun 10, 2013 17:22
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Ofaloaf posted:But pike and shot is the period best-suited to letting folks who like playing with gunpowder play with gunpowder, while folks who'd rather not can still get away with armies of pikes and swords and crossbows and lances and so forth. It's perfectly doable to either field a primarily gunline army or charge headlong into an opposing units with a flash of steel. The variety of viable tactics and units makes the 16th and 17th centuries an appealing period for Total War-style games, imo. I disagree. I personally want to be facing roughly similar style armies, it's not much fun to play a melee style and face a gunpowder style, because then it's just if your morale holds to get into close combat with the gunpowder units. Vice versa if you're gunpowder, pour on the fire and hope they break soon. I much prefer games where I know it'll be similar styles facing off. And I personally didn't enjoy rifle lines facing off on the battlefield as much as Rome, Medieval or pre-powder Shogun.
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Jun 10, 2013 17:29
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Walamor posted:I disagree. I personally want to be facing roughly similar style armies, it's not much fun to play a melee style and face a gunpowder style, because then it's just if your morale holds to get into close combat with the gunpowder units. Vice versa if you're gunpowder, pour on the fire and hope they break soon. quote:I much prefer games where I know it'll be similar styles facing off. And I personally didn't enjoy rifle lines facing off on the battlefield as much as Rome, Medieval or pre-powder Shogun.
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Jun 10, 2013 17:41
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Fizzil posted:In that preview article, the camel archers look really wrong, plus in the distance there are camel riders with shield and lance. I do know a little bit of earlier Arabs (if they were supposed to be that), then camel archers usually fought unarmored and half naked, besides i never read of an account where a guy would charge on top of a camel, it simply doesn't have the momentum a horse could provide for a lance charge. Camels made very good transport for mobile infantry if you wanna get anal about the detail. MY IMMERSION I played a little Rome 1 yesterday and re-discovered Cataphract Camels. I'm glad that era of design is over. The problem with pike and shot is that Total War games don't do formations and mixed units. Nothing very interesting is developed during the pike and shot era, it's big stacks of pikes moving with other big stacks of pikes the whole way through. The AI sure as hell can't use pikemen either.
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Jun 10, 2013 18:05
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How do I get my cannons in Napoleon to actually stop firing? Sometimes I'd like to stop the volleys for a moment to have cavalry cross the arc or keep them from firing at impossible distances or into the dirt. I turn off 'fire at will' and those boneheads still keep shooting. The only way I've been able to address it is to limber the cannons, which is a slow process when the bullets are hissing. Any thoughts?
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Jun 10, 2013 18:20
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Press halt/stop, and disable fire at will. If they are already firing and you disable fire at will they will keep shooting the last targeted unit.
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Jun 10, 2013 18:22
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Order your cannons to fire on a bare patch of ground and then press the stop order button.
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Jun 10, 2013 18:22
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canyoneer posted:How do I get my cannons in Napoleon to actually stop firing? Sometimes I'd like to stop the volleys for a moment to have cavalry cross the arc or keep them from firing at impossible distances or into the dirt. Select them and mash backspace/whatever your stop order button is. In Empire, you couldn't get them to stop if you wanted to.
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Jun 10, 2013 18:39
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RVT posted:The only thing I'd rather see than Rome 2, is Empire 2, or the American Civil War. Followed in turn by Medieval 3. I'm not sure a TW game could really capture the feel of the ACW. I mean the tactical portion probably wouldn't be that bad, but with the complete domination of infantry and artillery over cavalry there would have to be a hugely revamped focus on the impact of terrain to keep things interesting. Probably improve mechanics related to battlefield reserves and reinforcement and things of that nature could also be emphasized to mirror the how grueling and prolonged major battles tended to be. Where it really breaks down is the strategic level. The time span is really short, you don't have much in the way economy beyond supply line management which isn't exactly the same, unit variety and recruitment are pretty much non-existent. And the ACW was such a war of strategic maneuver that it would be very hard to capture the feel of it unless they completely changed how the world map looks and functions. If you read pretty much any Civil War commanders memoirs, especially Grant's, for every page of descriptions of battles and tactics there are ten pages concerning forces trying to slip around one another to get at communication and supply lines. A lot of the strategic victories don't even involve a battle, just turning and drawing an enemy force the right way to compel them to withdraw when a reinforcing friendly army appears at their flank. Lots of sitting around in camps and towns for a few weeks or months before withdrawing to a different position. Not the most compelling concept to a mainstream audience. Rabhadh posted:I have to agree with this guy, plus on the fringes of Europe (Ireland for example) you still have guys fighting in a late medieval manner. Plus mercenaries! Your armies would be so multinational they could make a whole mini game out of that. Yeah, even if shot and pike tactics would be wonky under the current system, I would kill for a mercenary band mini-campaign in the style of the Peninsular Campaign from Napoleon.
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Jun 10, 2013 18:44
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One more question. The ranged cavalry cannot seem to get the idea to use 'melee only' mode when selected. This results (especially with 2 units selected) in the rear ranks shooting the forward line in the back of the head. Are they just so unpredictably dangerous that I shouldn't bother trying to use two units together in concert? I used two units of cavalry as sort of a pincer or hammer/anvil in the easy/easy Italian campaign to great effect. Now it appears that they just cannot resist an opportunity to frag each other. edit: Also, re: American Civil War, the new Civilization V expansion coming out this month has the ACW as a playable scenario, and it looks really fun. It will probably adapt better in that game than in TW though... canyoneer fucked around with this message at 18:48 on Jun 10, 2013 |
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Jun 10, 2013 18:46
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:The problem with pike and shot is that Total War games don't do formations and mixed units. Nothing very interesting is developed during the pike and shot era, it's big stacks of pikes moving with other big stacks of pikes the whole way through. The AI sure as hell can't use pikemen either. This. Machiavelli's Art of War describes complex formations that include pike, sword and board, and crossbows/shot along with auxiliary use of horse and cannon. While that might be an interesting game, it is not a game that Total War's engine is built for. But it's not JUST pike and shot. Thats like saying Medieval is JUST sword and arrow.
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Jun 10, 2013 18:59
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canyoneer posted:One more question. The ranged cavalry cannot seem to get the idea to use 'melee only' mode when selected. This results (especially with 2 units selected) in the rear ranks shooting the forward line in the back of the head. Did you turn off fire at will? There is no melee only option, the melee button just allows you to force a unit to melee attack. Infantry will hold their fire when friendly infantry crosses their path, btw. It's only infantry and infantry.
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Jun 10, 2013 19:07
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:Did you turn off fire at will? There is no melee only option, the melee button just allows you to force a unit to melee attack. Isn't that the little crossed-swords icon on the left of the interface supposed to do? Then when I mouse over on an enemy, it gives me a saber icon. I didn't think to turn off 'fire at will' in concert with it. It seems like when ordered to melee, they fire off a salvo once in range and then scoot in for the stabbin'. It's this initial friendly fire salvo that is causing me grief.
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Jun 10, 2013 19:41
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Turn of fire at will and they won't shoot anymore, easy as that.
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Jun 10, 2013 19:46
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:The problem with pike and shot is that Total War games don't do formations and mixed units. Nothing very interesting is developed during the pike and shot era, it's big stacks of pikes moving with other big stacks of pikes the whole way through. The AI sure as hell can't use pikemen either. I am biased in that I am a historian of early modern Europe, but there were quite a few interesting military developments during the period. The problem is that Total War games have never handled those aspects that were interesting in early modern warfare particularly - or rather, not at all - well.
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Jun 10, 2013 20:21
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:The problem with pike and shot is that Total War games don't do formations and mixed units. Nothing very interesting is developed during the pike and shot era, it's big stacks of pikes moving with other big stacks of pikes the whole way through. The AI sure as hell can't use pikemen either. I think total war games can have mixed units, but CA hasn't implemented them. I remember some Shogun 2 mod on Steam that featured mixed yari-and-musket units, so it must be feasible.
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Jun 11, 2013 00:36
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I was going to say, Shogun 2 has mixed unit formations doesn't it?
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Jun 11, 2013 00:38
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SeanBeansShako posted:I was going to say, Shogun 2 has mixed unit formations doesn't it? It absolutely does not unless some mod adds it in. EDIT: Shogun 2 patched today. Any one have an idea what it did? Meme Poker Party fucked around with this message at 01:29 on Jun 11, 2013 |
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Jun 11, 2013 01:05
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SeanBeansShako posted:I was going to say, Shogun 2 has mixed unit formations doesn't it? In theory. In practice, Tercios don't actually have any spears, or dedicated gunners for that matter. They all shoot, and then draw their swords for melee--instead of a third of them being gunners, a third being spearmen, and a third being swordsmen.
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Jun 11, 2013 02:18
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If they ever do a 18th/19th century Total War they should have a realm divide in the form of the Congress Of Vienna, maybe with a deeper political focus. Basically a deeper version of the one in Fall Of The Samurai, which the player could dismantle with diplomacy and intrigue. That would rule.
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Jun 11, 2013 04:37
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SeanBeansShako posted:If they ever do a 18th/19th century Total War they should have a realm divide in the form of the Congress Of Vienna, maybe with a deeper political focus. A bit off topic but I was teaching 3-5 graders in an after school French club and had them do a model Congress of Vienna simulation. One of the students put on a German accent and embodied Metternich perfectly not having known who he was at all. Then after peace was sealed, Russia decided to invade Brazil for some reason. I've always wished the TW games had better diplomacy and political intrigue features.
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Jun 11, 2013 04:48
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Shes Not Impressed posted:A bit off topic but I was teaching 3-5 graders in an after school French club and had them do a model Congress of Vienna simulation. One of the students put on a German accent and embodied Metternich perfectly not having known who he was at all. That would be nice. They do the war part of Total War really well, but the driving forces behind the war should (ideally) be equally compelling. It can get old fighting battles over and over again with the only ultimate goal being total domination.
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Jun 11, 2013 05:26
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:I played a little Rome 1 yesterday and re-discovered Cataphract Camels. I'm glad that era of design is over. I'm pretty sure empire total war has grouped unit formations: I'm playing through empire now and the combat is pretty fun and tactical dealing with unit formations and all.
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Jun 11, 2013 06:13
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Quantumfate posted:I'm pretty sure empire total war has grouped unit formations: I'm playing through empire now and the combat is pretty fun and tactical dealing with unit formations and all. Not those pussy poo poo formations you can select when you make a group. I mean there's no such thing as a Tercio in any TW game, and that's like half of your pike and shot game gone.
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Jun 11, 2013 07:09
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Chomp8645 posted:EDIT: Shogun 2 patched today. Any one have an idea what it did? Dug around: http://steamcommunity.com/app/34330/discussions/0/846955554746277005/#c846955554751793315
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Jun 11, 2013 07:14
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Sleep of Bronze posted:Dug around: http://steamcommunity.com/app/34330/discussions/0/846955554746277005/#c846955554751793315 Hmph, just some processor compatibility thing. We'll I'm going to cross my fingers anyway and hope it somehow fixed the broken coop me and my girlfriend have been experiencing so we can actually play a campaign.
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Jun 11, 2013 16:21
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The original Rome and Barbarian Invasion is the daily deal on STEAM, if you don't mind the old school clunkyness and weird design choices pick it up!
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Jun 11, 2013 18:04
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SeanBeansShako posted:The original Rome and Barbarian Invasion is the daily deal on STEAM, if you don't mind the old school clunkyness and weird design choices pick it up! Oh hell, for a pound I'll go down nostalgia road and be severely disappointed.
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Jun 11, 2013 19:01
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Alchenar posted:Oh hell, for a pound I'll go down nostalgia road and be severely disappointed. You'll end up not sleeping and playing it for a few weeks straight. I made this mistake middle of fall semester last year where I had to see the red of Rome constantly expand on the minimap.
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Jun 11, 2013 19:32
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