Read about a new car? Thats the 2024 Giant Piece of Shit

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Automotive Insanity > Read about a new car? Thats the 2024 Giant Piece of Shit

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PBCrunch: Jun 17, 2002; Lawrence Phillips Always #1 to Me

I think part of it is a perceived quality issue. Cars with CVTs sound awful. There is no change in engine speed so it sounds like the transmission is slipping (which it is in a way).

# ? Jun 11, 2013 02:18

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# ? May 26, 2024 16:43

sports: Sep 1, 2012

thats why I like them. They sound like dragsters.

# ? Jun 11, 2013 02:20

Fender Anarchist: May 20, 2009; Fender Anarchist

I think the issue with CVTs is, although they have infinite ratios within a certain range, in order to widen that range (equivalent to adding higher gears) you need to make the transmission a lot bigger and heavier, and at that point it becomes easier to just make a conventional automatic with an extra set of planetaries that can produce more ratios, and doesn't have the design and packaging challenges. They're great for economy cars, not so much for sports cars and pickup trucks.

# ? Jun 11, 2013 04:40

Powershift: Nov 23, 2009

Fucknag posted:

I think the issue with CVTs is, although they have infinite ratios within a certain range, in order to widen that range (equivalent to adding higher gears) you need to make the transmission a lot bigger and heavier, and at that point it becomes easier to just make a conventional automatic with an extra set of planetaries that can produce more ratios, and doesn't have the design and packaging challenges. They're great for economy cars, not so much for sports cars and pickup trucks.

yeah, the ZF 8 speed that everybody uses only has like 5 actual gears, but uses combinations of them to produce the different ratios.

# ? Jun 11, 2013 05:04

Fender Anarchist: May 20, 2009; Fender Anarchist

Yeah that's the cool thing about classic flavor autos. Most older 4-speeds just have 2 planetary sets with different reduction ratios. You run both in reduction for 1st, the higher-ratio one in reduction and the other direct for second, vice versa for third, and both in direct drive for fourth, plus a dedicated overdrive gearset. Add another full planetary and you can see how the combinations add up quickly, and that's ignoring adding, for example, a gear where 2 sets run in reverse for an additional ratio, or crazy poo poo like ravigneaux gears.

# ? Jun 11, 2013 05:10

Q_res: Oct 29, 2005; We're fucking built for this shit!

IOwnCalculus posted:

A CVT is the best theoretical transmission - who cares about power curves when you can spin the engine to where it performs best (or makes best economy or whatever) and then just vary the ratio as you get to the speed you want? Problem is making a CVT that holds up to a lot of power.

There's another issue with CVTs, people loving hate them. If you have a CVT behave optimally it absolutely fucks with people's heads. Which is why you end up with CVTs that have "6 speeds" and gearshift paddles.

# ? Jun 11, 2013 07:29

KozmoNaut: Apr 23, 2008; Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle

I have an unhealthy obsession with French cars. Here's another.

Peugeot decided to hop up the RCZ a bit, boosting the turbo 1.6L engine to 260hp, making it their most powerful road-legal car ever. It's still FWD, but there's a mechanical LSD in there as well as some suspension trickery, and the Frenchies have a history of making sweet-handling FWD rides. If you're going to the Goodwood Festival of Speed, the official reveal will happen there.

The black with copper accents thing they started with the Onyx concept car is pretty nice, too. I like it.

# ? Jun 11, 2013 10:13

cakesmith handyman: Jul 22, 2007; Pip-Pip old chap! Last one in is a rotten egg what what.

The RCZ is a beautiful car but it absolutely needs to be AWD or MR.

# ? Jun 11, 2013 10:46

Throatwarbler: Nov 17, 2008; by vyelkin

Eh, with 260hp it doesn't really need to be. I think I would just drive it as is and take the extra storage space and lower cost.

# ? Jun 11, 2013 14:44

KozmoNaut: Apr 23, 2008; Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle

It does look like it could be made MR relatively problem-free, though.

Being based on a FWD platform (from the 308), there are probably problems with doing that.

# ? Jun 11, 2013 15:08

sean10mm: Jun 29, 2005; It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, MAD-2R World

angryhampster posted:

What do these compete with? I can't seem to think of a CUV market that would fit into, given its size and price.

It's almost the same specs as an Xterra actually (slightly longer, same width, slightly lighter, slightly more power) but looks much nicer inside...though only the Trailhawk version looks like it has any actual off-road ability.

# ? Jun 11, 2013 16:01

Coredump: Dec 1, 2002

KozmoNaut posted:

It does look like it could be made MR relatively problem-free, though.

Being based on a FWD platform (from the 308), there are probably problems with doing that.

If anyone can do it, its the French.

# ? Jun 11, 2013 17:01

Finger Prince: Jan 5, 2007

Coredump posted:

If anyone can do it, its the French.

they'd put the engine behind the seats and then run a driveshaft to the front to drive the front wheels, because they're French.

# ? Jun 11, 2013 17:25

PBCrunch: Jun 17, 2002; Lawrence Phillips Always #1 to Me

Is that a real car? That double bubble rear window looks expensive.

I like it. It kind of looks like someone took 1000 piece puzzles of a Nissan 350Z and an Audi TT and managed to put them together.

# ? Jun 11, 2013 21:12

KozmoNaut: Apr 23, 2008; Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle

It's real and 99% the same as the original concept car. They've been making it since 2010, with a facelift in 2012. It's assembled in Austria by Magna Steyr, who also assemble the Aston Martin Rapide. The 1.6L Prince engine is the same as the one in the current MINI and the BMW 1 and 3 series, it was developed jointly by PSA and BMW.

I'm pretty sure the rear window is the single most expensive part on the entire car, I'd hate to pay for a replacement.

# ? Jun 11, 2013 21:22

cakesmith handyman: Jul 22, 2007; Pip-Pip old chap! Last one in is a rotten egg what what.

The pillars are a close second and beautiful work if you get to see one off the car, incredible gentle complex compound curves :words:

# ? Jun 11, 2013 22:34

Finger Prince: Jan 5, 2007

They are beautiful cars, there's one that parks on my street, and the Peugeot dealer around the corner has some on their forecourt. Probably the most underrated car of the decade, performance notwithstanding (though this new one seeks to redress that).

# ? Jun 11, 2013 23:10

Mental Hospitality: Jan 5, 2011

KozmoNaut posted:

I have an unhealthy obsession with French cars. Here's another.

Goddamn. I want one of these! :hawaaaafap:

Also, I think that new Jeep Cherokee is kind of nice looking in a perverse sort of way. I'd take one over a RAV, CRV, or Forester.

# ? Jun 11, 2013 23:30

Nidhg00670000: Mar 26, 2010; We're in the pipe, five by five.; Grimey Drawer

The single weirdest thing about the RCZ is that the gearbox is actually good. Nice precise shift feel and distinct, short throws. This is weird because it shows that Peugeot can do it, if they want. But in every other newer Peugeot I've driven, the shifter feels like you stuck a spoon in a bucket of porridge. (Tbf, the boxes in the Mi16 and the Gti6 I had weren't spectacular either, but they were miles better than the one in for e.g. the 307, 308 or the 208.)

# ? Jun 11, 2013 23:37

HairyNipple!: Dec 31, 2004; hello i am fast cheap awesome

KozmoNaut posted:

I have an unhealthy obsession with French cars. Here's another.

Peugeot decided to hop up the RCZ a bit, boosting the turbo 1.6L engine to 260hp, making it their most powerful road-legal car ever. It's still FWD, but there's a mechanical LSD in there as well as some suspension trickery, and the Frenchies have a history of making sweet-handling FWD rides. If you're going to the Goodwood Festival of Speed, the official reveal will happen there.

The black with copper accents thing they started with the Onyx concept car is pretty nice, too. I like it.

The RCZ looks awesome on the road. The double bubble roof grabs your attention. The looks blow away the TT.

# ? Jun 11, 2013 23:42

Kenshin: Jan 10, 2007

God, if only that thing was RWD or AWD.

It's so goddamn good looking.

# ? Jun 12, 2013 00:17

Super Aggro Crag: Apr 23, 2008; And, of course as always, kill Hitler.

God drat that car is nice. Its how I would want the first gen TT to actually look.

# ? Jun 12, 2013 00:45

Throatwarbler: Nov 17, 2008; by vyelkin

truck trucks Trucks TRUCKS TWUCKS :freep:

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.d...e#axzz2VqHeHgml

quote:

HAULING IT IN
Big pickup transaction prices rise at twice the industry rate

Nick Bunkley
Automotive News | June 10, 2013 - 12:01 am EST
It feels like the good old days for the Detroit 3, with big pickups flying off dealership lots and plants running full out to fill orders for large, profitable models.

"It's a great time to be in the truck business," said Kurt McNeil, vice president of U.S. sales operations at General Motors, which starts shipping redesigned versions of its full-sized pickups to dealers this month.

In many ways, this may be an even better time than before the recession.

Although volumes remain well below the previous peaks, average transaction prices for full-sized pickups have increased at more than double the average rate for the industry since 2005, according to Edmunds.com. And manufacturers are not creating demand artificially with unsustainable discounts.

Edmunds says average transaction prices for large pickups, including heavy-duty models, have risen to almost $40,000, from about $31,000 in 2005. That equates to an 8 percent gain after adjusting for inflation.

And the housing market is just starting to give the auto industry a tailwind that some in the industry say could bring pickup sales back to the levels Detroit enjoyed nearly a decade ago.

Also, the Detroit 3 no longer have to spend their truck profits just trying to cover the crushing legacy costs and overhead expenses that helped land two of them in Bankruptcy Court.

"It allows them to do things and make investments that in the past they neglected," Brian Johnson, an analyst with Barclays Capital, said in an interview.

In May, full-sized pickups accounted for about one-third of the 8 percent increase in U.S. sales volume from a year ago. For the first five months of the year, the segment was up 21 percent while the industry rose only 7 percent.

High prices
Average transaction prices for large pickups have been rising at more than double the average rate for the industry.
Large pickups avg. Industry avg.
2005 $31,059 $27,655
2006 $31,422 $27,661
2007 $32,643 $28,208
2008 $32,660 $28,050
2009 $34,879 $28,710
2010 $36,396 $29,830
2011 $38,047 $30,583
2012 $39,108 $30,803
2013 $39,915 $31,215
Change since 2005 29% 13%
Source: Edmunds.com
2 million pickups

At that rate -- and most analysts expect the industry's selling rate to rise in the second half -- deliveries of full-sized pickups would reach 2 million units for the first time since 2007, before surging gasoline prices pushed many pickup buyers to seek more efficient alternatives.

"What we're really encouraged about is that the 2010-12 improvement came without the benefit of housing. That was a missing piece of the puzzle," Doug Scott, marketing manager for Ford Motor Co.'s truck group, said in an interview. "Now it looks like that housing element is going to be there.

"That could really drive full-sized pickup sales higher in the future and perhaps put us in a position where we approach those 2004-05 levels. It wasn't that long ago that most people thought that wasn't in the cards."

In May, Ford sold 71,604 F-series models, 31 percent more than a year ago and the most in any month since August 2006. Sales rose 24 percent for GM's full-sized pickups -- the Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra -- and 22 percent for Chrysler Group's Ram. Those four nameplates accounted for one of every eight vehicles sold last month.

Ford, which sold more than 900,000 F-series models in both 2004 and 2005, is on track to sell nearly 800,000 this year. But because the average transaction price for the F series is up more than $10,000 since 2005, this year's sales of that one nameplate would generate almost $5 billion more than back then, or about the same amount after adjusting for inflation.

As much as the Detroit 3 have focused on improving their car lineups in recent years, nothing is better for their bottom lines than growth in pickups. The F series accounted for 90 percent of Ford's profits, while the Silverado and Sierra generated two-thirds of GM's earnings in 2012, Morgan Stanley analyst Adam Jonas has said.

Analysts say pickups will continue to outpace overall industry growth as the market climbs to at least 16 million units next year, driven by demand from home building, the energy boom and even a modest resurgence in so-called urban cowboys -- people who don't need a truck for work but still buy one, oftentimes splurging for plush, high-priced versions.

"The truck segment really shows no sign of slowing down," said Alec Gutierrez, senior market analyst for Kelley Blue Book. "A lot of those consumers who sat on the sidelines are now jumping back into the market, even though they don't have a job in construction and they're not hauling anything."

Pickup transaction prices have risen in large part because of increasing sales of high-end trims, including the F-150 King Ranch, the Ram Laramie and the upcoming Silverado High Country. A 4x4 2013 F-150 Limited has a starting price of more than $54,000.

Ford's Scott said 30 percent of F-150 retail sales and more than half of F-series heavy-duty pickups are so-called high-series versions.

"Our high-series mix has never been better than it's been these last couple of years," Scott said. "If you go down in Texas, it's not uncommon to see a King Ranch on a construction site. It's their office. They're working out of it. They want the refinement, but they need the capability as well."

Luxury cars, SUVs also up

Full-sized pickups were not the only lucrative models to fare extremely well last month.

Sales of compact luxury cars rose 24 percent, and premium luxury cars were up 40 percent. Cadillac, which has one new model in each of those two segments, posted a 40 percent gain, its biggest year-over-year increase since 1976. Porsche sales were up 38 percent.

Large SUVs increased 23 percent, with SUVs posting an average gain of 15 percent overall. Crossovers were up 10 percent, including a 24 percent increase for compact crossovers.

The industry's seasonally adjusted annualized selling rate jumped to 15.3 million, from 14.9 million in April and 13.9 million a year ago.

The only major automaker to report a sales decline for the first five months was Hyundai-Kia Automotive, which doesn't sell any big pickups.

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/06/11/ram-mulling-superlux-pickup-above-laramie-longhorn/

quote:

Looking at the fullsize pickup landscape, automakers are bringing more and more luxury to the mix. Ford has its King Ranch, GMC has the Denali and now Chevrolet is adding a High Country model, but it sounds like Ram might be looking to make a step up from its already posh Laramie Longhorn trim (shown above). Speaking with new Ram boss Reid Bigland, Automobile is reporting that Chrysler could be looking to reach even higher to add even more premium accoutrements to its truck line.

It's hard to imagine how much higher Ram could get with its luxury especially considering the 2013 Ram 3500 HD Laramie Longhorn used for our recent First Drive carried an as-tested price of $70,285 � even lighter-duty 1500 models start at $45k in LL trim. We wonder if this means we might finally get to see a production version of the Ram Long Hauler that we saw testing earlier in the year. Either way, high-dollar pickups add up to massive profit margins for automakers, so as long as there are customers willing to pay the price, we'll doubtlessly continue to see more premium features inside future trucks.

# ? Jun 12, 2013 02:16

DEUCE SLUICE: Feb 6, 2004; I dreamt I was an old dog, stuck in a honeypot. It was horrifying.

Tekne posted:

I'd take the Trailhawk Cherokee in granite metallic with the dark wheels. It really looks like a shark or ray in that color, but in a good way imo.

You can tell that Chrysler wants these to sell:

drat, that's cheap.

# ? Jun 12, 2013 02:24

Powershift: Nov 23, 2009

Throatwarbler posted:

truck trucks Trucks TRUCKS TWUCKS

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.d...e#axzz2VqHeHgml

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/06/11/ram-mulling-superlux-pickup-above-laramie-longhorn/

This isn't a big surprise. The ranger, canyon, and dakota have all died since 2005. The sticker on my truck was $66k, although my next truck i intend to buy new, and don't expect to pay more than about $25k.

# ? Jun 12, 2013 02:40

Throatwarbler: Nov 17, 2008; by vyelkin

It does say "large pickup trucks" which you would think would only include 1/2t and above, so if the small trucks are gone then the prices should have come down as previous small truck owners migrate to cheap large trucks.

# ? Jun 12, 2013 02:48

drgitlin: Jul 25, 2003; luv 2 get custom titles from a forum that goes into revolt when its told to stop using a bad word.

Kenshin posted:

God, if only that thing was RWD or AWD.

It's so goddamn good looking.

What do the following cars have in common?

205 GTi
309 GTi
106 Rallye
306 GTi6
306 Rallye

All great handling cars, all FWD, all Peugeot.

Things almost no one has ever said: "I wish the 205 GTi was RWD." Oversteer was only ever a lift away.

# ? Jun 12, 2013 03:47

fknlo: Jul 6, 2009; Fun Shoe

Throatwarbler posted:

truck trucks Trucks TRUCKS TWUCKS

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.d...e#axzz2VqHeHgml

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/06/11/ram-mulling-superlux-pickup-above-laramie-longhorn/

For as much as I hate "unnecessary" truck ownership, it's making the car companies a lot of money. Slap a couple hundred bucks of leather in there and charge an extra $10k+, print money.

# ? Jun 12, 2013 04:42

cakesmith handyman: Jul 22, 2007; Pip-Pip old chap! Last one in is a rotten egg what what.

drgitlin posted:

What do the following cars have in common?

205 GTi
309 GTi
106 Rallye
306 GTi6
306 Rallye

All great handling cars, all FWD, all Peugeot

Things almost no one has ever said: "I wish the 205 GTi was RWD." Oversteer was only ever a lift away.

Yes, Peugeot can make brilliant FF shopping trollies and sell them to boy racers but the RCX looks like it should be competing with the R8. I know it offers supercar looks for a fraction of the price but it feels like they should be selling a 400hp MR version. Knowing Peugeot it'd be HDI as well :haw:

# ? Jun 12, 2013 10:22

dissss: Nov 10, 2007; I'm a terrible forums poster with terrible opinions.

Here's a cat fucking a squid.

Nidhg00670000 posted:

(Tbf, the boxes in the Mi16 and the Gti6 I had weren't spectacular either, but they were miles better than the one in for e.g. the 307, 308 or the 208.)

The GTi6 is the one where the gearbox gets in the way of the steering isn't it? I've never thought they had a particularly good box, certainly not close to FWD Honda quality.

# ? Jun 12, 2013 10:33

Snowdens Secret: Dec 29, 2008; Someone got you a obnoxiously racist av.

For those truck prices, $31->39K over 8 years would fit with 3% average year over year inflation. Using official Fed year-year numbers a $31k truck in 2005 would be $37k today, a $2k increase isn't tremendous, and most consumer prices have shown a little higher rise than the Fed numbers anyway. Figure in the fancier engine tech / ICE features and the real price paid per nebulous value unit has probably dropped.

This is more exaggerated if you use the 'industry average' numbers, that $27.6k truck should be about $33k in 2013 dollars, before any added features. Only getting $31k means either dropped profits on the basically same vehicle, that consumers are buying less options, or both.

# ? Jun 12, 2013 10:45

CAT INTERCEPTOR: Nov 9, 2004; Basically a male Margaret Thatcher

Q_res posted:

There's another issue with CVTs, people loving hate them. If you have a CVT behave optimally it absolutely fucks with people's heads. Which is why you end up with CVTs that have "6 speeds" and gearshift paddles.

No, when you let a CVT behave as it wants it's just plain loving bad. Wait I need power whhhhRRRRRRRRRRRR okay it's next week you can have overtaking power now. Oh you want to accelerate to get into another lane? whhhhhRRRRRRR gently caress missed it too slow to respond.

Paddles makes them even somewhat drivable, even for highway tooling around. Yes I know how they are supposed to work but for a car they DONT loving WORK FOR CARS. Christ, I can not believe they came up with something worse than a traditional auto, but they have. A lot worse. And for what? Dubious marginal fuel saving? Dubious reduction in emissions? Absolute certain piss anyone who is even remotely interested in driving off immensely?

4 weeks of driving misreble CVT equipped cars? I'd rather drive a manual 70's Corolla.

# ? Jun 12, 2013 12:48

Coredump: Dec 1, 2002

Linedance posted:

they'd put the engine behind the seats and then run a driveshaft to the front to drive the front wheels, because they're French.

That does sound like something the French would do if left to their own devices but Renault made it work with the Clio, I'm sure Peugot can pull it off too.

# ? Jun 12, 2013 14:04

KozmoNaut: Apr 23, 2008; Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle

I bet they could.

But would you pay Porsche money for a Peugeot? I mean, I'd love a ~400hp MR RCZ R, but I think I'm an outlier.

# ? Jun 12, 2013 14:07

Nidhg00670000: Mar 26, 2010; We're in the pipe, five by five.; Grimey Drawer

dissss posted:

The GTi6 is the one where the gearbox gets in the way of the steering isn't it? I've never thought they had a particularly good box, certainly not close to FWD Honda quality.

Yeah, it's that one. For those uninformed, the sixth gear is in an extra housing bolted onto the outside of the regular five gear box, and that extra gear gets in the way of the steering, giving you a far bigger turning radius when turning left than when turning right. The bigger of the two is actually quite enormous, but you learn to live with it quite fast. And as I was saying, although it wasn't a very impressive box, it is still better than the 308s.

Linedance posted:

they'd put the engine behind the seats and then run a driveshaft to the front to drive the front wheels, because they're French.

If 4WD is a necessity, I guess they could go the route of the 3008 & 508 and use a hybrid system with an electrical motor driving the rear wheels?

# ? Jun 12, 2013 14:19

cynic: Jan 19, 2004

Cat Terrist posted:

No, when you let a CVT behave as it wants it's just plain loving bad. Wait I need power whhhhRRRRRRRRRRRR okay it's next week you can have overtaking power now. Oh you want to accelerate to get into another lane? whhhhhRRRRRRR gently caress missed it too slow to respond.

My wife had a CVT Mercedes A-class as her first car, and it was perfect for her. Underpowered, bulky, basically impossible to accidentally accelerate off a bridge (which is exactly what she did the first time she drove my car).

# ? Jun 12, 2013 16:14

Hog Obituary: Jun 11, 2006; start the day right

Chris Harris drives the new 991 GT3 with the flappy paddles
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVdme4ISq8Y

Something about that exhaust sound seems uninspiring and not worth the seconds they spend showing it... maybe I'm broken :ohdear:

# ? Jun 13, 2013 04:18

sadnessboner: Feb 20, 2006

Cakefool posted:

Yes, Peugeot can make brilliant FF shopping trollies and sell them to boy racers but the RCX looks like it should be competing with the R8. I know it offers supercar looks for a fraction of the price but it feels like they should be selling a 400hp MR version. Knowing Peugeot it'd be HDI as well

I've always thought the sheep in wolves clothing was a french car schtick

# ? Jun 13, 2013 05:26

Snowdens Secret: Dec 29, 2008; Someone got you a obnoxiously racist av.

sadnessboner posted:

I've always thought the sheep in wolves clothing was a french car schtick

Looking fast is always chic, actually going fast is so déclassé

# ? Jun 13, 2013 06:13

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# ? May 26, 2024 16:43

G-Mach: Feb 6, 2011

Hog Obituary posted:

Chris Harris drives the new 991 GT3 with the flappy paddles

Something about that exhaust sound seems uninspiring and not worth the seconds they spend showing it... maybe I'm broken

Chris Harris is the best. I haven't watched a review of his so far that I haven't liked. The DRIVE network has become my go to video channel on youtube. They are putting out quality video consistently.

# ? Jun 13, 2013 07:19

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Automotive Insanity > Read about a new car? Thats the 2024 Giant Piece of Shit

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