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Aren't a lot of states decriminalizing and therefore making less possession 'arrests'?
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Jun 12, 2013 01:53
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Yep. But it's long been the case that the only reason to be arrested for marijuana is racism. Obama isn't to blame or to be given credit for the current situation.
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Jun 12, 2013 02:22
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KingEup posted:So possession arrests are down. According to a well respected (not by me) drug policy expert, Obama deserves the credit: http://www.samefacts.com/2013/06/drug-policy/marijuana-possession-enforcement-is-down-dramatically-under-president-obama/ Definitely silly
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Jun 12, 2013 02:23
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FreshlyShaven posted:I disagree. First off, having legal pot will be an added benefit for many people who are still undecided about their next vacation. Do people from Illinois take their vay-cays in Missouri because they can buy/use fireworks legally? KingEup fucked around with this message at 05:23 on Jun 13, 2013 |
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Jun 13, 2013 05:07
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KingEup posted:Do people from Illinois holiday in Missouri because they can buy/use fireworks legally? This is a seriously bad example, going to the next county over to buy fireworks is as American as apple pie e: Here, have a guess at what the red things and the dotted line on this image indicate: 
Muck and Mire fucked around with this message at 05:32 on Jun 13, 2013 |
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Jun 13, 2013 05:27
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Muck and Mire posted:This is a seriously bad example, going to the next county over to buy fireworks is as American as apple pie I don't have a fancy map to illustrate it, but I can assure you that there are several huge fireworks stores just a few miles North of the Colorado/Wyoming border, right off I-25. Taking trips up to Cheyenne to buy hella fireworks and bring them back to Colorado is a statewide pastime. Although hopefully that won't be the case this year, seeing as how our entire state is a gigantic tinderbox waiting to combust 
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Jun 13, 2013 05:35
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KingEup posted:Do people from Illinois take their vay-cays in Missouri because they can buy/use fireworks legally? Again, this was a really bad example. If you don't think that pot will in anyway benefit Washington & Colorado's tourism industries to a noticeable degree, then I don't know what to tell you.
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Jun 13, 2013 06:47
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Muck and Mire posted:This is a seriously bad example, going to the next county over to buy fireworks is as American as apple pie Kind of my point. They're next to the border for a reason. People want to get in and straight back out. Few people are planning their next holiday desination because of fireworks.
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Jun 13, 2013 07:15
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Can you think of anything that might differentiate fireworks from, say, marijuana? Have you heard of sex tourism? People will go places to do things that aren't legal where they live. Amsterdam thinks they get a third of their tourism from weedsmokers. I'm not saying Denver is going to be the American mecca for weed tourism or anything but people will definitely consider this when they make their travel plans, especially once the retail stores are open and the kinks are worked out.
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Jun 13, 2013 07:34
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Muck and Mire posted:Can you think of anything that might differentiate fireworks from, say, marijuana? Have you heard of sex tourism? People will go places to do things that aren't legal where they live. Amsterdam thinks they get a third of their tourism from weedsmokers. I'm not saying Denver is going to be the American mecca for weed tourism or anything but people will definitely consider this when they make their travel plans, especially once the retail stores are open and the kinks are worked out. Even from people just passing through the state on a trip to somewhere else; that's profit that will go to the state versus some shady back-room dealer. And those people don't have to fear 'The Law', so they would be inclined to purchase and consume more often. From a money-making POV for the state, it sounds like a good plan.
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Jun 13, 2013 10:43
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"But Officer, it was legal where I bought it!" Yea I don't think leaving the state with lots of legally bought marijuana is a good idea. If you are planning on staying in Colorado for a few days for say a Ski-trip, then yes. If you are just "passing through," then no, you will not and should not buy some weed for the road.
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Jun 13, 2013 14:42
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Powercrazy posted:"But Officer, it was legal where I bought it!" Is this about the inherent danger of driving with weed where it's illegal, or specifically about Colorado and its neighboring states?
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Jun 13, 2013 17:04
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hepatizon posted:Is this about the inherent danger of driving with weed where it's illegal, or specifically about Colorado and its neighboring states? The former. Transporting drugs, even bullshit like weed, is playing with fire and should be kept at a minimum. I wouldn't want my road-trip to get hosed up when my car got impounded in Tennessee for "drug trafficking." It's much safer to buy drugs when you get to your destination then it is road-trip with them. The laws of Colorado or Washington state won't change that. However when weed becomes legal in those states, I think the best method of getting drugs would be to have someone fedex them to you (just like is done today). Why drive all the way across the country, just have them ship it to you.
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Jun 13, 2013 17:12
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Powercrazy posted:It's much safer to buy drugs when you get to your destination then it is road-trip with them.
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Jun 13, 2013 17:19
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Powercrazy posted:However when weed becomes legal in those states, I think the best method of getting drugs would be to have someone fedex them to you (just like is done today). Why drive all the way across the country, just have them ship it to you. In actuality, the USPS is probably the way to go since there is a warrant needed to open their mail. From what I understand there is no such need for a warrant for FedEx or UPS to open up packages.
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Jun 13, 2013 17:23
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b0ng posted:In actuality, the USPS is probably the way to go since there is a warrant needed to open their mail. From what I understand there is no such need for a warrant for FedEx or UPS to open up packages. Correct. Always use USPS for anything you do not want tampered with (and also because the private carriers are a little more likely to outright destroy your package through negligence).
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Jun 13, 2013 17:26
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b0ng posted:In actuality, the USPS is probably the way to go since there is a warrant needed to open their mail. From what I understand there is no such need for a warrant for FedEx or UPS to open up packages. Yea, I'm not super versed in the best way to ship drugs, but what I do know is that there is literally zero criminal risk to you as a buyer if you do it that way. The worst that will happen is you lose your money.
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Jun 13, 2013 17:28
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twodot posted:Is this true? If it's true at all, I would guess that it would come down to race. If you buy in a legal state, there is no chance of being arrested at purchase. Driving with marijuana is only dangerous if you both get pulled over and searched. I've never been in a car that was searched by the police and I've been pulled over exactly once, but my demographic is definitely less likely to be pulled over or searched. It depends on where you're going but yes, driving around with drugs across state lines is potentially quite risky. First, consider that if you have a drug conviction - even a misdemeanor - on your record, even if it's just for weed, you're significantly curtailing future employment prospects. Specifically with respect to Colorado, if you're travelling East, the LE in counties in Western Kansas (really the Western 2/3rds of the state) have nothing better to do, and a vested interest in pulling you over and arresting you for cannabis. If you had a large enough amount they would probably charge you for distribution. If you kept travelling East into Missouri the laws and your prospects get worse. People need to keep in mind that in states like California, it's no big deal but in states like Missouri they can give you seven years in jail, and a 5k fine for over 35 grams. In Louisiana they can give you 20 years in Angola for a roach if it's a third offense (and yes, this does happen). It's a profitable game for them and not one that I would want to play; the risk just isn't worth the reward. If you do, despite the risks decide to do this regardless, secure it in your trunk, don't speed above 5 mph, have your car in good repair and completely innocuous (all the lights work, registration in glove box, insurance etc). Know the laws, don't drive inebriated in any way and be safe.
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Jun 13, 2013 17:38
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Broken Machine posted:Specifically with respect to Colorado, if you're travelling East, the LE in counties in Western Kansas (really the Western 2/3rds of the state) have nothing better to do, and a vested interest in pulling you over and arresting you for cannabis. twodot fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Jun 13, 2013 |
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Jun 13, 2013 17:54
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twodot posted:Even if I grant you this (and I'm not prepared to), this doesn't support the contention. The claim that driving through western Kansas with marijuana is more dangerous than purchasing marijuana and driving home where you are going to (which, if you are crossing the border to purchase drugs, is presumably near Colorado, so very possibly, western Kansas). Even if random searches are more common around the Colorado border, we would need to compare that to random drug busts and random searches at whatever the destination is. Whatever man, I used to live next door to a cop that did drug interdiction on I-70 in Kansas and talked to him about it. It's your rear end.
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Jun 13, 2013 18:07
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twodot posted:Even if random searches are more common around the Colorado border, we would need to compare that to random drug busts and random searches at whatever the destination is. You are absolutely more likely to be pulled over then you are to be caught buying drugs.
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Jun 13, 2013 18:09
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Powercrazy posted:You are absolutely more likely to be pulled over then you are to be caught buying drugs.
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Jun 13, 2013 18:17
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At least for weed, I have never heard of anyone getting caught at the buy. People are usually caught with it by walking around with it and driving around with it, or if your really stupid smoking it in public.
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Jun 13, 2013 18:27
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twodot posted:Care to cite this? I wouldn't even know where to begin finding per mile likelihood of having your car searched versus percentage of drug buys that result in arrests.  I would think it's just common sense. Unless you're buying from a cop, it's not likely that the police are suddenly going to swoop into the home/parking lot/wherever you're at at the very moment you're buying your drugs.I've never heard of a reverse sting operation involving weed. I mean they could exist, but I've literally never heard of it happening. edit: Oh wait I did find an article about it happening in New York with police trying to sell people oregano in the 90s: http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle-old/065/reversal.shtml Jizz Festival fucked around with this message at 18:41 on Jun 13, 2013 |
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Jun 13, 2013 18:38
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Yeah, and honestly it's not too difficult to imagine that cops on the borders of the now-legal states will assume that some percentage of people coming through have weed on them. I'm sure a ton of people will get away with buying weed in CO and moving it across state lines but personally that seems like a fairly dumb idea. Kind of offtopic but I just imagined someone stopping right at the CO border, getting out and furiously smoking all of the rest of his weed while staring down a cop on the Kansas side
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Jun 13, 2013 18:41
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b0ng posted:In actuality, the USPS is probably the way to go since there is a warrant needed to open their mail. From what I understand there is no such need for a warrant for FedEx or UPS to open up packages. mdemone posted:Correct. Always use USPS for anything you do not want tampered with (and also because the private carriers are a little more likely to outright destroy your package through negligence). Powercrazy posted:Yea, I'm not super versed in the best way to ship drugs, but what I do know is that there is literally zero criminal risk to you as a buyer if you do it that way. The worst that will happen is you lose your money. Just so everyone's clear, the need for a warrant when opening mail only applies to first class mail: "USPIS FAQ posted:4. Can Postal Inspectors open mail if they feel it may contain something illegal?
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Jun 13, 2013 18:41
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Muck and Mire posted:Kind of offtopic but I just imagined someone stopping right at the CO border, getting out and furiously smoking all of the rest of his weed while staring down a cop on the Kansas side If the smoke wafts across the state line does that count as trafficking?
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Jun 13, 2013 18:45
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twodot posted:Care to cite this? I wouldn't even know where to begin finding per mile likelihood of having your car searched versus percentage of drug buys that result in arrests. Anyway, this is all incidental. Even if you are naive enough to think that most people get caught at the time of purchase or the time of use, everyone else knows better. Very few people are going to specifically travel to Colorado to buy drugs so that they can then travel back home to use them. If you want drugs there are safer and more convenient ways to get them then to take a pilgrimage to Colorado. I also think there is a general overestimation on the number of people who care. The idea of this huge population of people who are both for legalization, but do not currently use because of arbitrary legal status, and are chomping at the bit to take a roadtrip to colorado specifically to use legally is so specific and bizarre that it's not even worth talking about. Sure some people will take a vacation to colorado for a weed tour, sure some people vacationing in colorado will try weed incidentally, but at the end of the day, it's just a recreational activity and it is competing with a huge number of other recreational activities, there is nothing special about it. State Legalization is not that big of a deal. ate shit on live tv fucked around with this message at 18:48 on Jun 13, 2013 |
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Jun 13, 2013 18:46
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Powercrazy posted:Yea, I'm not super versed in the best way to ship drugs, but what I do know is that there is literally zero criminal risk to you as a buyer if you do it that way. The worst that will happen is you lose your money. Pretty much. A friend of a friend has his weed shipped in from California. It was caught once, but literally all they did was leave a note in his mailbox stating something along the lines of "Hey, we found illegal drugs being shipped to this address, just wanted to tell you someone was shipping illegal stuff to you." It cost him a pretty penny to not get the weed, as it was ~6 oz of medical marijuana from California, but losing some money is a lot better than legal action and imprisonment. He stopped getting shipments in for a couple of months to be safe, and then just had his California connection start mailing it to a friend of his. twodot posted:Care to cite this? I wouldn't even know where to begin finding per mile likelihood of having your car searched versus percentage of drug buys that result in arrests. Don't have an actual citation for you, but I grew up in one of the top drug interdiction counties in the United States. The majority of drug busts around there, in both quantity of arrests and quantity of drugs seized, come from people being pulled over while passing through. Every level of law enforcement there, from the podunk city cops to the state police and DEA, were far more interested in pulling over people passing through on major highways or the interstate than they were in doing small-time busts with the locals, especially for marijuana. Why spend your time and money arresting kids for a few grams of weed when you could instead pull over every person coming from the South until you find a cartel mule carrying dozens of pounds? It's going to be a similar situation around Colorado once legalization really takes off. If you're leaving Colorado and don't have Colorado plates, law enforcement is going to find an excuse to pull you over and search the vehicle on the off chance you're stupid enough to try and bring a couple of ounces back home.
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Jun 13, 2013 18:51
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Jizz Festival posted:it's not likely that the police are suddenly going to swoop into the home/parking lot/wherever you're at at the very moment you're buying your drugs. This actually happened to a friend of mine. The police just happened to be there for completely unrelated situation (I think someone had called in some kind of sexual harassment thing) and I guess the police saw two black people get into a car and then one leave and pounced.
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Jun 13, 2013 19:06
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Powercrazy posted:"But Officer, it was legal where I bought it!" I'm sorry, I phrased it wrong. What I mean by passing through is, for example, someone driving through Colorado to get somewhere else and getting a hotel/motel room for the night. I do not condone driving under the influence, nor do I advocate crossing state lines with cannabis in your possession. And if you don't think cops are going to be lined up waiting for people coming out of Colorado, you're more than likely wrong. I have nothing to back it up, but I would assume that once everything in Colorado gets the green light to proceed, Cops in all the bordering states will be anxiously awaiting to 'serve & protect'.
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Jun 13, 2013 19:21
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Powercrazy posted:Sure some people will take a vacation to colorado for a weed tour, sure some people vacationing in colorado will try weed incidentally, but at the end of the day, it's just a recreational activity and it is competing with a huge number of other recreational activities, there is nothing special about it. C'mon, think like a capitalist, this is gonna be a huge deal. Just as one example, if I was a music promoter I would be planning lots of big events and festivals in WA and CO right about now. Why wouldn't people start thinking of places where WEED IS LEGAL as the ideal destination for reggae, hip-hop, jam band, and metal fests? Big music events are something that people will travel for and spend money on and legalization in those states is going to make that even more attractive, both for the audience and the bands. Basically anyone in charge of any sort of large cultural event will be eyeing CO and WA as potential venues. poo poo, the X-Games promoters are probably still high-fiving and whooping over the all but guaranteed increase in attendance in Aspen in 2014. Apparently, they were looking at other possible locations for the winter games but I'd be willing bet there were a lot of sad faces in ski resort towns around the country when CO passed legalization.
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Jun 13, 2013 19:36
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Smoking is illegal at lots of public venues, weed smoking isn't going to be any different. In fact if the promoters mess it up too much, you'll start having the busy-bodies that got cigarette smoking barred from bars and clubs, start pushing to make smoking at ANY public venue illegal. So all of a sudden your Reggae festival is smoke free. Weed smoke is particularly bad because of how pungent it is compared to (mostly filler) Cigarette smoke.
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Jun 13, 2013 19:44
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Powercrazy posted:So all of a sudden your Reggae festival is smoke free. You know, I'm not quite sure you know what you're talking about here
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Jun 13, 2013 19:46
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Powercrazy posted:I also think there is a general overestimation on the number of people who care. The idea of this huge population of people who are both for legalization, but do not currently use because of arbitrary legal status, and are chomping at the bit to take a roadtrip to colorado specifically to use legally is so specific and bizarre that it's not even worth talking about. Either you don't understand how lovely it is to buy weed from a dealer or you are in a unique position where your dealer has regular hours, is friendly and helpful, and has hundreds of different options to choose from. It isn't about people who will only smoke when it is legal, its about people who love smoking good weed in an awesome environment. Powercrazy posted:Smoking is illegal at lots of public venues, weed smoking isn't going to be any different. In fact if the promoters mess it up too much, you'll start having the busy-bodies that got cigarette smoking barred from bars and clubs, start pushing to make smoking at ANY public venue illegal. So all of a sudden your Reggae festival is smoke free. You don't know what you are talking about if you seriously think that weed smoke is more of a problem than cigs. Weed smells bad when you smoke it but it sure as hell doesn't trash carpet/drapes the way that cigarettes will. Edit: public intoxication is illegal which is why no one can drink at any music festivals 
Miltank fucked around with this message at 19:50 on Jun 13, 2013 |
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Jun 13, 2013 19:48
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800peepee51doodoo posted:C'mon, think like a capitalist, this is gonna be a huge deal. Just as one example, if I was a music promoter I would be planning lots of big events and festivals in WA and CO right about now. Why wouldn't people start thinking of places where WEED IS LEGAL as the ideal destination for reggae, hip-hop, jam band, and metal fests? Big music events are something that people will travel for and spend money on and legalization in those states is going to make that even more attractive, both for the audience and the bands. Basically anyone in charge of any sort of large cultural event will be eyeing CO and WA as potential venues. poo poo, the X-Games promoters are probably still high-fiving and whooping over the all but guaranteed increase in attendance in Aspen in 2014. Apparently, they were looking at other possible locations for the winter games but I'd be willing bet there were a lot of sad faces in ski resort towns around the country when CO passed legalization. Yea it's pretty naive to think there won't be a sizable bump in tourism from this.
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Jun 13, 2013 19:48
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enbot posted:Yea it's pretty naive to think there won't be a sizable bump in tourism from this. Isn't Colorado already marketing 420 friendly hotels?
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Jun 13, 2013 19:58
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Tab8715 posted:Isn't Colorado already marketing 420 friendly hotels? If so, that one seems likely to bring the DEA down on their heads. I seem to remember them already using asset forfeiture to seize a hotel because there were like a half dozen drug busts over the course of a couple years (and the city wanted them gone).
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Jun 13, 2013 20:06
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I remember back in the late 90s fireworks were being cracked down on in Colorado and driving from Denver to just across the boarder was what everyone was doing. (Remember the South Park episode about the giant snake firework?) Anyway I used to go with my uncle all the time and he'd put the big bag of fireworks underneath my seat because we always got pulled over and questioned right as we crossed back from WY into CO. I would think a similar situation will happen with weed. Of course there is still probable cause needed to search a vehicle so it may not be that productive. Colorado MMJ is already being trafficked around the country and chances are if you are east of CO and smoking some dank nugs it's probably CO bud. http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_21221031/colorados-medical-pot-industry-fuels-illegal-trade-review quote:The review found more than 70 instances of the diversion of medical marijuana to criminal drug operations. In the report, the Drug Enforcement Administration suggested Colorado is on track to become a primary source of supply for high-grade marijuana throughout the country.
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Jun 13, 2013 20:07
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They just sit in trees on the IL/IN border and watch plates, that's enough for PC.
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Jun 13, 2013 20:09
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