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Grand Fromage posted:My impression has always been that everyone spies on everyone, and it's just tacitly accepted as part of international diplomacy. Countries still flip at each other when they find out because they have to, but everyone knows it's part of the game. And every country specially targets ones that are relevant to their interests, like India targeting Pakistan or China targeting the US or the US targeting Russia or whatever. Countries even spy on their own allies. There are probably CIA agents running around in Canada right now bored off their asses. People only publicize it when they want to embarrass a country. Otherwise, yes, it's accepted that everyone spies on everyone, and a certain percentage of embassy staff are actually intelligence officers under cover.
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Jun 13, 2013 04:07
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A few closely allied countries have no-mutual-spying agreements because like you suggest with your Canada example, it's a waste of resources. I know the UK and US have one. I assume the US and Canada would as well.
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Jun 13, 2013 05:01
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Vladimir Putin posted:Countries even spy on their own allies. There are probably CIA agents running around in Canada right now bored off their asses. People only publicize it when they want to embarrass a country. Otherwise, yes, it's accepted that everyone spies on everyone, and a certain percentage of embassy staff are actually intelligence officers under cover. Quoth Vimes: 'Why are we spying on the Uberwaldians? Aren't we supposed to be friends? And you know they're spying on us?' Quoth Vetinari: 'Absolutely. And the more we know about each other, the friendlier we will be.'
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Jun 13, 2013 06:18
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Bloodnose posted:A few closely allied countries have no-mutual-spying agreements because like you suggest with your Canada example, it's a waste of resources. I know the UK and US have one. I assume the US and Canada would as well. Not only that, but they share resources quite liberally. When Vasili Mitrokhin passed over the whole KGB archives to the UK, it didn't take them long to bring the USA in.
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Jun 13, 2013 06:42
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Just got this video from Bloomberg interviewing HK's Chief Executive (It's like~~ like their Mayor and leader not elected) http://bloom.bg/14wPVNI God drat it CY Leung. Even with your fancy accent, you are still horrible with the press. We get it. You don't want to comment on the case. You are so bad At Public Relations. With the locals giving you poo poo almost everyday, you are so use to deflecting answers, stop acting like some blase Communist official. Not even going left field or anything. Memorize your phrases and shill HK for its freedoms and all. Go on about its Lawful society and we legal history. Or whatever. Be loving more Charismatic. At least Donald was wearing a Bow Tie and shilled Hongers for visa free travel. So Bloodnose is the resident SCMP guy and hate home owners. I'm here to fill in with HK government news. From Bloomberg : Hong Kong Democracy May Lead to Conflict With China, Leung Says http://www.bloomberg.com/news/print/2013-06-12/hong-kong-democracy-may-lead-to-conflict-with-china-leung-says.html posted:
Yes people distrust the central government, and the HK government. It's the incompetence which scares the poo poo out of us. But saying more here is like preaching to the choir so I'm going to stop. Voting aside, if the government went iron fisted or whatever means to clean corruption and improve efficiency, people would approve. Even if it means limiting human rights and eroding freedom of speech. Beijing just get its poo poo together and take care of its own country before dragging HKers along the ride. The worse is that the HK government officials are turning into spineless yesmen collaborators instead politicians that can bargain/negotiate play politics with China and the masses of HK. It's too transparent in an incompetent manner and horrible handling of Public Relations.
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Jun 13, 2013 09:27
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I love the barely-veiled admission that they can't have a vote because they'd lose. It's refreshing to have an official come so close to admitting the truth.
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Jun 13, 2013 09:35
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caberham posted:The worse is that the HK government officials are turning into spineless yesmen collaborators instead politicians that can bargain/negotiate play politics with China and the masses of HK. Then after they do this poo poo, they always somehow end up on the CPPCC. Such a coincidence! Donald Tsang, Timothy Tong and probably like eighty thousand other officials under investigation for corruption all get a place on the CPPCC. Now my question is, why do people like being on the CPPCC? Does it pay well? When he was elected, I tried really hard to like CY Leung. He was supposedly a closet communist, leftist, socialist, who historically was king of the workers and everything. He talked about declaring war on the property developers (I don't hate homeowners btw, I hate 'house hoarders' that rich Chinese people tend to turn into). I thought he might actually kinda do some of the things he said he'd do, like improving inequality and making homes affordable. And honestly, I don't think it's fair to totally blame him for the failures. He made a lot of demands and gave a lot of orders to the effects that he promised. All the cooling measures on property, for example. Prices have stopped rising, and I don't think he's to blame for them not falling. At least not completely. I think idiot Pringles Man fucktard John Tsang is the one who doesn't get nearly enough poo poo for all of Hong Kong's problems. I don't know if it was a limey retard or an incompetent chinaman, but somehow Hong Kong ended up with what's basically two chief executives: the one we call Chief Executive, and the Financial Secretary. The Financial Secretary has like supreme control of all budgeting, which makes him the key to getting poo poo done. And Hong Kong's Financial Secretary right now is this bumbling nincompoop, John Tsang. He's the one who famously Mitt Romney'd it up and said that, despite his half a million USD salary, government mansion and private chauffeur, he's middle class because he drinks coffee and watches French movies.  He's also the one who won't touch Hong Kong's financial reserves, whose exact number I've forgotten but is in the trillions. He says we need to save it for later because the future is scary and where we're going, we won't need eyes to see. So that money can't be used for things like a universal pension or aid to Hong Kong's miserable lower middle class. Leung gets a lot of vitriol from the pan democrats and liberals and everyone in the anti-establishment movement, but a lot more of that ire needs to be directed at Tsang. In my opinion, he's the real problem.
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Jun 13, 2013 10:01
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Bloodnose posted:So that money can't be used for things like a universal pension or aid to Hong Kong's miserable lower middle class. So what you're saying is that you need... more... Socialism? Bloodnose, maybe it's living in HK, but your eulogizing of the welfare system is almost Welsh in its magnificence.
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Jun 13, 2013 11:32
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Yes. Living in the most Randian libertarian hypercapitalist cyberpunk dystopia on earth today has made me, this former college Atlas Shrugged reader, appreciate the merits of socialism. But I don't get that Welsh reference at all. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orHtAhU8qP0 I'm not British enough to appreciate the subtle differences between nigh-identical white people who share a land smaller than New Jersey.
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Jun 13, 2013 12:47
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Bloodnose posted:But I don't get that Welsh reference at all. You know how many people are sniggering at you right now? That's right, there's two of us (maybe three). Wiki the history of the NHS. [edit] Blinky and FearCotton might have got the nod to The History Boys there. GuestBob fucked around with this message at 13:30 on Jun 13, 2013 |
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Jun 13, 2013 13:21
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Bloodnose posted:
He's referencing the greatest prime minister Britain never had, Aneurin Bevan.
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Jun 13, 2013 13:34
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Okay whatever who cares. You should've exported some of that poo poo to the colonies, because employers give us gently caress all for health insurance in Hong Kong. It's way cheaper than the US, sure, but I still hate having to shell out  for a visit to the doctor. That Leung video is getting attention. He is really uncharismatic, isn't he.   Kevin Zervos said this idiotic thing last week And here's a thing: 
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Jun 14, 2013 02:21
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Cross posting from political cartoons. Can't be enough :uggh: and  I really really want this guy to go gently caress himself  Especially when Hongers have been holding the vigils over 20 years. June 4th is a big eye sore for Beijing but we don't care  Sometimes I really hate 1 country 2 systems and the logo of my HK passport. Or people who don't read.  A few airline staff would not let me board my plane in Europe because they "couldn't find my resident permit because Chinese passports need one"  With the Snowden case, I'm glad I don't have to explain to people more about our city being an excolony and all. Goons and DND folks tend to be more well informed than the average person I have to deal with 
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Jun 15, 2013 19:29
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I like how in English it says HONG KONG Special Administrative Region People's Republic of China but in Chinese it says PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF CHINA Hong Kong Special Administrative Region
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Jun 15, 2013 19:45
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmKaUOdOC-k Here's a poorly translated Apple Daily report about the Hong Kong PLA garrison starting to hold a lot more live fire drills than usual. Some people are threatened by the show of force, a lot more are annoyed by the sound.
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Jun 17, 2013 02:17
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Bloodnose posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmKaUOdOC-k Does this sorta thing have strong show of force implications for Hong Kongers? I thought the PLA had been there for awhile so they'd be sorta used to it. Somewhat tangentially, I'm partway though the most recent Sinica, and Jeremy's take on Snowden fleeing to Hong Kong is kinda interesting. Is he overblowing things at all?
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Jun 17, 2013 22:43
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I don't watch (listen to?) Sinica, so you'll have to give me the gist of it. As for the PLA, most people aren't used to them and don't really think about them at all. They stay out of the way. There aren't parades or anything and their big garrisons are out in the New Territories like in the video there. The thing that's bothering people is that they're now making their presence more known. There's also an issue that the government is supposed to give a whole bunch of prime waterfront real estate in Central to the PLA for them to service warships. Why they would want to do that in the heart of Hong Kong's financial and tourist district I have no idea.
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Jun 18, 2013 00:04
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Bloodnose posted:Why they would want to do that in the heart of Hong Kong's financial and tourist district I have no idea. To paraphrase Tsering Shakya, authoritarian regimes have a love of ceremonial displays of their authority. If the space was way out in the boonies then they wouldn't be able to impress their power and control on random bystanders, would they?
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Jun 18, 2013 01:49
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Electro-Boogie Jack posted:To paraphrase Tsering Shakya, authoritarian regimes have a love of ceremonial displays of their authority. If the space was way out in the boonies then they wouldn't be able to impress their power and control on random bystanders, would they? From the sounds of it, being impressed is the last thing that would happen to the locals.
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Jun 18, 2013 02:24
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Yeah people are pissed about that and want it to be a public space. Most of the activists even say the PLA would have no problem requisitioning the dock for their visits and shows and stuff, but nobody wants it closed off as a military facility or available only at the PLA's discretion anyway. In other news, July 1 is coming soon. That's the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region Establishment Day, a public holiday here. It's normally known for democracy demonstrations, but some Brave New World poo poo is going down this year. SCMP posted:Businesses including second-hand bag retailer Milan Station, herbal tea specialist Hoi Tin Tong and Macau Koi Kei Bakery, will give discounts of up to 50 per cent or other offers from 2pm to 5pm. I'm really curious to see what kind of impact this has on the marchers' numbers. The Civil Human Rights Front said 400,000 marched on last year, police said 63,000. Either way, it's not an insignificant number. But Hong Kongers love a deal, and regardless it will definitely distract from public attention to the demonstrators.
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Jun 18, 2013 03:35
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Oh well, all things considered I'd rather live in Brave New World Hong Kong where we have a democracy protest day where luxury good are half off than 1984 Chengdu where the weekend is cancelled and stay off the streets.
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Jun 18, 2013 04:11
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Electro-Boogie Jack posted:To paraphrase Tsering Shakya, authoritarian regimes have a love of ceremonial displays of their authority. If the space was way out in the boonies then they wouldn't be able to impress their power and control on random bystanders, would they? Wouldn't it be more likely for the PLA to get it ceded to them for some official purpose, then whoops all of a sudden it turns into a waterfront highrise run by General Wong? Or does it not work that way in HK?
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Jun 18, 2013 16:54
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Yeah that wouldn't fly in Hong Kong. Land use is extremely tightly controlled specifically because property is such a big deal here. If it's a military use property, you bet your rear end.it'll be used by the military. That does not mean they won't build a luxury high rise officers' quarters or something though. It just means they couldn't lease or sell it to civilians. There's basically no freehold, fee simple property here. There are a few exceptions like a couple of century-old churches, but everything else in Hong Kong is purchased on 99-year leasehold. In the end, the government gets everything back, so it better have been doing what it was supposed to be doing.
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Jun 18, 2013 17:24
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Arglebargle III posted:Oh well, all things considered I'd rather live in Brave New World Hong Kong where we have a democracy protest day where luxury good are half off than 1984 Chengdu where the weekend is cancelled and stay off the streets. Indeed, stuff like this is why they are holding the democracy protests. If I lived in Hong Kong I'd be scared shitless at how terrible the mainland is.
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Jun 18, 2013 17:38
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Arglebargle III posted:Oh well, all things considered I'd rather live in Brave New World Hong Kong where we have a democracy protest day where luxury good are half off than 1984 Chengdu where the weekend is cancelled and stay off the streets. What about Lord-of-the-Flies Henan? Really good article on Tealeafnation about the gaokao system which also touches on the broader issue of, well: TLN posted:No matter how the system changes over the next decade, the fundamental problem of setting quotas for each province remains. Who gets to determine the quotas, and how? Liu Yu, a political scientist at Tsinghua University, wrote in her popular book, Details of Democracy, that the current rules the quota system follows are neither those of systematic justice nor restorative justice. She noted that setting quotas proportional to the number of test-takers would be systematic justice, and favoring students from poorer provinces in central China would be restorative justice, yet the current system could be described only in terms of its absurdity. http://www.tealeafnation.com/2013/06/problems-of-place-do-quotas-in-chinas-college-admissions-system-reinforce-existing-inequalities/ It's getting towards that time of year (results). GuestBob fucked around with this message at 03:31 on Jun 19, 2013 |
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Jun 19, 2013 03:28
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More Brave New World poo poo. The Performance Industry Association of Hong Kong is organizing a music festival on July 1st that features some K-pop stars and a couple big local bands, which is a way to keep young people who can't afford to go shopping from joining the anti-government rally. The event is heavily subsidized by property development companies and tickets only cost HK$100 (like US$12). Their response to criticism that they're trying to distract from the protests is that "hey, this is a protest too!" They say they're demonstrating against the government not building any mega-venues for super giant concerts. Hong Kong's largest concert venue seats 12,500 and a planned one will seat 18,000. Compared to the Tokyo Dome's 55,000 or some other stadiums in other Asian countries, it's pretty dinky. So this showing of K-pop stars will express the property developers' displeasure with the government.
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Jun 19, 2013 05:37
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GuestBob posted:What about Lord-of-the-Flies Henan? In reality how different it is from charging non-residents a shitload more money to attend a college of their choosing? And pretty much everywhere has an "in-state quota". The answer to this isn't reforming the quota system, but vastly improving the status of other provincial colleges. This also requires the "shift to the west" focus on development and economy, creating better jobs in cities other than Beijing/Shanghai. For the migrant worker scenario, I could envision a fix to it. The problem is if they open up BJ/SH gaokao to all, it just creates a push to flock to the city for any job possible to ensure being able to sit the desired gaokao. Here's tha fix for it.. if the student has attended middle/high school in Beijing, a house is owned by the family, then go ahead and allow it with a "temporary" BJ hukou good for gaokao. If they test into a local uni, then extend that hukou status like everyone else. The whole point of hukou is that it's linked to an address. If it's a "collective" hukou, then it's basically temporary. Right now, it's REALLY loving hard to get a BJ hukou. College is the loophole. It's still kinda "gently caress the poor" to be honest, but Beijing is already loving huge. As it is right now, ideally, if you study your rear end off in a home province, yes, you can get that golden ticket. If you don't at first go round, you still study your rear end off and go for a masters in BJ. I know a shitload of people that went that route. Here's the other alternative: Massively expand all major schools to accommodate the demand and in the process, dilute the value and screw up all the other schools.
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Jun 19, 2013 05:43
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Pro-PRC Laowai posted:In reality how different it is from charging non-residents a shitload more money to attend a college of their choosing? Well for one it doesn't create a crazy rush to get into one city, and for two states very often have student-sharing agreements to spread out the burden even more and for three it is an increase in cost not a barrier to admission. If you really want to get that resident discount at the University of Wisconsin Madison or whatever you could move to Bumfuck, Southern Illinois and pay the same rate. Or with a less extreme example you could live in western Mass and still pay the resident rate at MIT. The explicit urban/rural nature of the Hukou practically forces insane demand for migration to major cities that ironically it was supposed to prevent. I think the main point is that the hukou system is broken and this causes a ton of second-order problems. Of course elevating new colleges to the status of Qinghua and Beida is the best option but that strikes me as difficult in the concentration of wealth around the government that typifies corrupt bureaucracy. Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 06:39 on Jun 19, 2013 |
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Jun 19, 2013 05:58
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Also, it isn't that difficult to establish residency in a state, your previous residency doesn't haunt you for the rest of your life.
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Jun 19, 2013 06:34
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Arglebargle III posted:Well for one it doesn't create a crazy rush to get into one city, and for two states very often have student-sharing agreements to spread out the burden even more and for three it is an increase in cost not a barrier to admission. If you really want to get that resident discount at the University of Wisconsin Madison or whatever you could move to Bumfuck, Southern Illinois and pay the same rate. Or with a less extreme example you could live in western Mass and still pay the resident rate at MIT. The explicit urban/rural nature of the Hukou practically forces insane demand for migration to major cities that ironically it was supposed to prevent. Lol, check this out. The desire for the hukou is really all it comes down to. If you have a Beijing hukou, you can directly enter high school, then do the gaokao and. If you have a non-resident hukou, you're supposed to go back to your registered place to do it, which yes, lowers your shot at the top Beijing schools. But, it's all about the hukou transfer desire in the end. If you don't got the cash, you do what everyone normal does... send the kid off to high school back home. Go to a decent private high school in Beijing, or pay your way into a good public one. You can't sit the normal gaokao, but as long as you're 18, you can sit the "adult gaokao". It's basically just a GED equivalent. Take it in Beijing and score over 400 and you're basically into a good school without issue. The DIFFERENCE is that your hukou doesn't get moved, and in the end your diploma's gonna have "成人" on it, it's also not going to be considered "full time". But in reality, that poo poo don't matter. Not as glamorous as a regular undergrad, but you're done with it in 3 years instead of 4, and can go straight to masters (which does move your hukou). It's not gonna be pretty or prestigious, but it's a route to take. So, if I was going to suggest a reform, I'd go with something along these lines: Take your gaokao either back in your hometown, or take it in your current city as long as your immediate (parents) are working there and have established residency and you completed middle and high school in said city. If you take it in the current city, you take the same test as everyone else, but your hukou isn't going to be moving as a result. If you take it back home and get in, you can move the damned hukou. Local quotas can be kept, but qualifying scores end up raised within that local quota. At the same time, obviously, other schools need to be improved. Doing away entirely with the restrictions would only further swamp an already over-capacity system that has been in panic mode for the last 15-odd years trying to keep up. Ardennes posted:Also, it isn't that difficult to establish residency in a state, your previous residency doesn't haunt you for the rest of your life. True. However the situation's a bit different. When the big shifts from rural->city happened in, say, the US. It wasn't some 1 billion people all heading for the same key cities. And at the time, there wasn't much in the way of expectations. If it's not controlled, it's gonna get even more insane, and this is just one of the tampers on it. I completely agree that there are reforms that need to be made, as current policy is a bit out-dated in respect to current reality. But it's gotta be well thought out and done right. Pro-PRC Laowai fucked around with this message at 10:36 on Jun 19, 2013 |
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Jun 19, 2013 10:20
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Pro-PRC Laowai posted:Doing away entirely with the restrictions would only further swamp an already over-capacity system that has been in panic mode for the last 15-odd years trying to keep up. I agree that the rise in enrolment has been steep but I wouldn't necessarily describe the Chinese HE system as being in a "panic" about it. Outisde p211 and p985 there are many universities which activley recruit students. The real issue within the HE system inside China is the distribution of central government funding - which is based only on promoting excellence for the purposes of international dick waving (don't get me wrong, eveyones like to wave their dick and we all do it - I'm doing it now as a matter of fact) and ignores things like, you know, human need. Socialism with [edit] Pro-PRC Laowai posted:But it's gotta be well thought out and done right. You don't need to reform the hukou system to tackle some of the glaring idiocy of the university admissions system. All you need to do is pump more money into provinces like Henan to develop their level of tertiary provision. Don't just give it to one institution either (as tends to be the way) but distribute it based on the current provincial level research and teaching in individual departments. By doing that you can take huge steps to reform the whole system as insititutions gradually bring the rest of their departments into line with an example of best practice. Over the course of ten years, those universities who reform their institutional culture the most will benefit from improved standing across the board and will attract better students and more money. System gets healthier yo. GuestBob fucked around with this message at 10:54 on Jun 19, 2013 |
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Jun 19, 2013 10:42
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Arglebargle III posted:Oh well, all things considered I'd rather live in Brave New World Hong Kong where we have a democracy protest day where luxury good are half off than 1984 Chengdu where the weekend is cancelled and stay off the streets. I saw Iron Man 3 in IMax for like 35 kuai that weekend cause no one was out. It's good for the consumer!
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Jun 20, 2013 08:26
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So a funny thing happened today...
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Jun 20, 2013 21:55
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Is that the Chinese equivalent of Libor or Fed Funds rate?
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Jun 20, 2013 23:36
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 Thats not in response to what the fed was saying today right?
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Jun 20, 2013 23:41
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Lawman 0 posted:
Combination of things going on. It's mainly targeting a lot of the shadow banking going on by soaking up liquidity that needs soaking up. Combined with the government blowing the whistle on false reporting of local GDP, it's kind of a signal saying "loving cut it out".
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Jun 20, 2013 23:47
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karthun posted:Is that the Chinese equivalent of Libor or Fed Funds rate? Equivalent to LIBOR, specifically. Lawman 0 posted:
No, this is an entirely home-grown catastrophe. The PBoC either has to keep inflating the shadow credit bubble they've managed to blown up to a truly impressive size, or basically allow the banks to poo poo their pants rather publicly and risk a full blown run on the banks/interbank lending freeze. So far the PBoC decided to go with Option 2, but it remains to be seen if they have the sack to keep it up when things get really shirty next week.
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Jun 21, 2013 00:14
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Fine-able Offense posted:Equivalent to LIBOR, specifically. Is this the event that turns those empty cities into the economic disaster they probably already should have been? Or just a minor disaster that causes a few banks to go under?
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Jun 21, 2013 01:05
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What am I looking at, the central bank's interest rate going from 2%-12% in under a week?
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Jun 21, 2013 01:35
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ocrumsprug posted:Is this the event that turns those empty cities into the economic disaster they probably already should have been? Or just a minor disaster that causes a few banks to go under? The big state banks will be protected, it's the smaller ones that have been dodgy that will probably be allowed to die (and then absorbed).
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Jun 21, 2013 02:11
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