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Get off the bike and counterweight using your body on the figure eight... it makes it so much easier. That being said, skills test is ludicrously easy. There was this girl that got an 84 on her written test (I honestly have no idea how you get below, say, a 96...). SHe was absolutely horrible at anything bike related on the skills test. She didn't even do a figure eight in the box. She didn't fall off, but she went at least 30 feet outside of the box twice and put her foot down 7 or 8 times. She passed. Adiabatic fucked around with this message at 14:28 on May 22, 2013 |
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May 22, 2013 14:26
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I'll go one further and say if you've been riding for a while and can't pass the skills test you should have the bike taken away from you. It is ludicrously easy.
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May 22, 2013 15:31
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Mikemo Tyson posted:I'm an intermediate rider who has been riding for a few years on the road, I've always just renewed my permit once a year to avoid taking the MSF course because I never needed my endorsement. Now that I want to commute to work I need the endorsement so I can ride home at night, since the permit forbids me from riding after sunset. If you've been riding for a while and haven't developed many bad habits, you'll breeze through the test. Besides, commuting carries orders of magnitude more risk of damage to your bike than a basic skills test.
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May 22, 2013 17:24
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Oh quit being a baby and take the test already. If it makes you feel any better, there's always gonna be somebody that looks worse than you especially if you've been riding for a while.
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May 22, 2013 17:33
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Skreemer posted:Out in the wild hinterlands of Wisconsin they only have 3 schools that run anything other than the BRC. Mainly because there isn't enough people signing up for the class on a consistent basis. Though trying to be ahead of the curve those three sites do offer, the brc i and ii, ARC, the UBB "ultimate bike bonding" (police and gymkhana type maneuvers), and a trike course. (of course all of those schools are within an hour or two of Milwaukee.) Makes sense, no use in having empty classes. As an instructor, is there any leeway in letting someone just do part of the BRC1? Meaning my buddy walks in and says "hey, I'm a returning rider, all the returning rider classes are full or 200 miles away, any way I can just do the riding skills portions with you?" or is there just no way of that happening? Driving 90-120 minutes just to see if there is a walk in spot is silly, but something tells me it'll be pretty bureaucratic and he won't be able to do that. It's not too bad either way. I told him, worst case scenario is he just retakes the BRC and is bored for a while. With how they separate the class time vs. the riding time for the BRC vs. Returning Rider I'd be surprised if they can work something out but you never know.
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May 22, 2013 20:27
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I've never ridden a motorcycle before but am interested in giving it a try and buying one. I don't have any freinds who have bikes (that will let me ride them at least. One has a Brand new Ducati and another a twin turbo Hyabusa). Would taking the MSF course before I buy a cheap bike be the way to go?
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May 22, 2013 23:53
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Yes.
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May 23, 2013 00:00
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Gonna go out on a limb and say you may not wanna ride with those people. Anyone with a turbo busa must be a tool, and as a Ducati owner  , when I ride my Ducati I want to ride like a tool.
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May 23, 2013 00:35
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nsaP posted:Makes sense, no use in having empty classes. As an instructor, is there any leeway in letting someone just do part of the BRC1? Meaning my buddy walks in and says "hey, I'm a returning rider, all the returning rider classes are full or 200 miles away, any way I can just do the riding skills portions with you?" or is there just no way of that happening? Driving 90-120 minutes just to see if there is a walk in spot is silly, but something tells me it'll be pretty bureaucratic and he won't be able to do that. Completely up to what the instructor can get away with. If he wants the card, and the waiver/insurance break that comes with the card, unfortunately he'll most likely have to sit through the whole thing. If he just wants to bone up to be able to take the state test and is chummy with an instructor, they may spend some spare time after a class or on a specified weekend to run through "remedial training". If an instructor allows your friend on a bike without sitting through the class and signing a waiver, that instructor is risking his permit to instruct. At my site if I get caught, I get booted from the program and not allowed to teach in the state anymore. All that said if you know a local instructor, there's nothing that says they can't take your buddy out to an empty parking lot, draw some chalk lines and run him through the course. (again he just wouldn't be able to get the card)
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May 23, 2013 02:37
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He's already got his M class from the first time he took the MSF. He's doing this purely because he hasn't ridden since then. He's just going to try to walk into a regular BRC and tough out the boring bits I think.
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May 23, 2013 03:08
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This is a bit of a long shot, but if anyone has a recommendation for a course in the Greater Toronto Area I'd love to hear it. Or is a question like this a waste of time and any beginner's course will be good enough?
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Jun 9, 2013 01:36
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CmdrSmirnoff posted:This is a bit of a long shot, but if anyone has a recommendation for a course in the Greater Toronto Area I'd love to hear it. In the US the MSF has a national standard that must be adhered to. It doesn't really matter where you take the course material wise. Some instructors/facilities my be a bit better than others though. Our site for example has an awesome classroom. brand new clean building, computers and dvd/vhs systems hooked to multiple projectors, speakers installed in the cieling... Our range though kinda sucks. The range lines and surface are top notch, but there's only one port-o-let and it's 100 yards away. The veranda they put up is on the wrong corner of the range to be useful, there's no building near the range, the bikes are literall shoved into a trailer. The range itself is almost 1/2 a mile from the building because of where the usable entrance are. It's the little things.
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Jun 9, 2013 13:30
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I can still hear my instructor's voice yelling, "START 'EM UP, FINE-C!" every time I sit on the bike.
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Jun 9, 2013 19:23
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captainOrbital posted:I can still hear my instructor's voice yelling, "START 'EM UP, FINE-C!" every time I sit on the bike. I randomly flip an engine cut off switch when we're stopped or on a break. Some of em get on it right away but most I stand there and run through my spiel, "OK calm down, deep breath. Let's go through the list. Fuel. Ignition. Neutral....." At that point most of them get it. I had a drat good class this weekend. All the folks that had been riding for a while quietly did the exercises, worked at improving and didn't try to offer help or as we usually get, horrendously wrong advice. Class ran smooth, no drops and everyone passed easily. Even better I looked at the weather this morning and planned accordingly. Instead of starting off in the class this morning I hustled everyone out to the rage. Skills testing was completed by noon, started raining at 1pm.
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Jun 10, 2013 00:25
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Read through the whole thread & appreciate the info. Saw a few posts cursing those summer classes. Looking to do the Maryland BRC in August when have some scheduled leave. Am I asking for heat stroke or should I wait until October? I have zero motorcycle knowledge, but lots of experience in lovely, hot, humid areas of the world. Also, any opinions on the Harley classes versus DMV classes (besides price) would be appreciated.
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Jun 13, 2013 04:57
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Evil SpongeBob posted:Read through the whole thread & appreciate the info. Saw a few posts cursing those summer classes. I took the Rider's Edge (Harley) class last July (Michigan). It wasn't too bad. I was having too much fun to really be bothered by the heat all that much. Just drink a poo poo load of water. Personally, I would take the August one despite the hot weather since you'll have more time left to ride before the weather turns to poo poo. I thought the Rider's Edge class was good except for the hour long Harley sales pitch/infomercial the first night of classes.
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Jun 13, 2013 05:04
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I took my class in the middle of Georgia summer in full leather gear. My philosophy is that it's no different than idling in traffic during summer, which is going to happen eventually unless you plan to only ride in fall/spring/winter.
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Jun 13, 2013 06:34
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I've taken the MSF twice and both times were in the middle of summer in Southern Cal at 100'ish degrees. Light colored clothing and a lot of water will get you through.
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Jun 13, 2013 06:38
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-Inu- posted:I took my class in the middle of Georgia summer in full leather gear. My philosophy is that it's no different than idling in traffic during summer, which is going to happen eventually unless you plan to only ride in fall/spring/winter. The Honda place up in Alpharetta? I brought my jacket and overpants to my class (Georgia in early August), and the instructor specifically told me I'd be dying out there, and to just wear pants and a long sleeve shirt.
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Jun 13, 2013 12:35
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-Inu- posted:I took my class in the middle of Georgia summer in full leather gear. My philosophy is that it's no different than idling in traffic during summer, which is going to happen eventually unless you plan to only ride in fall/spring/winter. Do you idle around in traffic for 8 hours at a time, punctuated only by 5-6 minutes of 15-20mph travel every 40 minutes or so? Seriously, full leathers to sit around in a parking lot all day in the summer to put around on lovely 250cc cruisers sounds masochistic.
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Jun 13, 2013 15:11
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Not quite MSF; my fiancee and I are gonna be taking Lee Park's class in 3 more weeks and it looks like we'll be doing just that, wearing full leathers on a parking lot in summer for 8 hours. Looking forward to dragging knees at 15-20 mph.
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Jun 13, 2013 17:46
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Just did that. I wore all mesh gear on a 70 degree day and it was still hot as balls sitting parked in line in a parking lot all day. They provide snacks, a lunch hour, and plenty of water/powerade, but you may want to bring your own just the same. They do have knee pucks on hand if you get comfortable enough to start dragging knees. Nobody in my class worked up to that point, but the potential was clearly there. It's probably about 4-5 hours total of range time. The classroom experience was just as, if not more valuable to me because I haven't read any advanced riding material previously. Taking the course opens you up to skills days they run regularly. So you can always get more range time after you take the class. They also have annual track days in the Fall that you can take after the TCARC1. I wrote a very small review of my experience here: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3497554&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=10#post415160239 :edit: It's a lot of starting and stopping without much in the way of RPMs. You may want to be sure your battery is in good shape or you might need a jump. Halo_4am fucked around with this message at 18:00 on Jun 13, 2013 |
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Jun 13, 2013 17:56
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I don't know how the hell I skipped your write up before; thanks for the info. I think both bikes are good to go on my side; the 250's battery is a year old and hasn't given me any concerns, and the zx6's battery is like 3 months old. Will probably bring a spare just in case.
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Jun 13, 2013 18:12
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I bet you'll be fine. Mine was some 2-year-old Batteries Plus POS that was only putting out 11v (now replaced). It gave me a hard start mid-day and then I just sat in the lines sitting in neutral and holding the throttle open to 4-5k to keep it charged. I'm sure people thought I was being a douche, but that's what it took to be sure the battery had enough juice to start the bike again for the next exercise. Fortunately I have a stock exhaust so it's not like I was waking babies blocks away or anything like that.
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Jun 13, 2013 19:57
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Kinda not looking forward to wearing my leathers for 8 hours though. May end up picking some mesh stuff for this.
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Jun 13, 2013 20:17
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Yeah I went to CycleGear the week before and sprung for the cheapest Bilt brand mesh overpants they had. Then I wore shorts under them. I also picked up some breathable socks for super cheap. I already had a mesh jacket and mesh gloves. Then the day before the class my ankle hulked out of the zippers on my ages old Harley boots. I had been meaning to replace them for a season or two, but happening just before a class where they were absolutely required was a real shitter. I ended up running to a local RedWing and getting these: http://www.redwingshoes.com/red-wing-shoe/971-red-wing-shoes/971-red-wing-mens-6-inch-boot-black. They're lace, they're steel toe, and they're barely sufficient ankle height or protection. But they were in stock and fit, and spending 8-10 hard hours in them on day 1 was only slightly miserable. Still in the market for some good riding boots that just look like a plain black boot. At that point these have a fine life ahead of them as a solid work boot. /Gear derail
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Jun 13, 2013 21:12
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Although not very ATGATT, I personally don't think any gear is necessary at the MSF other than boots, jeans, gloves, long-sleeved shirt, and a helmet unless your goal is heat stroke. No one in my class wore anything other than that. And the three people that crashed, including yours truly, were none the worse for it.
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Jun 13, 2013 21:59
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I agree with that. We're talking about gearing up for the TCARC though - which is still in a parking lot but you spend a lot of it over 20mph, and you're pushing the bike and yourself to greater limits. The bikes are also your own and traditionally a lot heavier than the baby 250's of the BRC. As a result they actually require full riding gear to MSF's long sleeved shirt and jeans. The most they bend is for chaps. Even Kevlar jeans are not allowed unless they have armored knees.
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Jun 13, 2013 22:14
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My bad. I'm an idiot. Carry on.
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Jun 13, 2013 22:18
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Is it different from state-to-state or site-to-site when it comes to helmet requirements on MSF courses? I brought my own but my site provides them and all they required were gloves and boots on top of the usual long pants and long sleeves.
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Jun 13, 2013 22:49
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Safety Dance posted:The Honda place up in Alpharetta? I brought my jacket and overpants to my class (Georgia in early August), and the instructor specifically told me I'd be dying out there, and to just wear pants and a long sleeve shirt. ThatCguy posted:Do you idle around in traffic for 8 hours at a time, punctuated only by 5-6 minutes of 15-20mph travel every 40 minutes or so?
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Jun 14, 2013 00:39
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Evil SpongeBob posted:Read through the whole thread & appreciate the info. Saw a few posts cursing those summer classes. The Rider's Edge folks have to pass the MSF instructors course in order to instruct. The MSF portions of the class have the same info and skills. The Rider's Edge classes have a bit more time added to them. Of the folks I've talked to that have taken the Rider's Edge classes they fill the time touring the Harley shop (buy our stuff and have it maintained here too!). The MSF classes on the other hand are supposed to be "manufacturer neutral". Most of the Rider's Edge courses still use Buell Blasts as opposed to the array of 200cc and 250cc bikes I've seen at most MSF facilities. (mind you this is personal experience I've only been to two Rider's Edge facilities and 5 MSF facilities). As to heat waves during the MSF, the dress code is long sleeve shirts, long pants, over the ankle boots, full finger gloves and a helmet(3/4 or full face only). There's no specific guidance other than that. Wearing full spandex stirrup pants, cowboy boots, long sleeve under armor shirt, and gardening gloves with a vintage 1982 bell helmet? Come on down and take the course. You'll get funny looks but there's nothing in the rules that says you can't dress that way. Also as a side note for most of the class you won't be going very fast and will want to have your visor up. I usually don't enforce this rule heavily but there needs t be something covering your eyes. Visor half up and or sunglasses on is also fine. Visor fully up with no eye coverage is supposed to be a no-go. Skreemer fucked around with this message at 02:11 on Jun 14, 2013 |
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Jun 14, 2013 02:04
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I've got the BRC2 course (experienced rider course?) tomorrow, and I'm looking forward to it. Just got back on a bike a month or two ago.. I've taken some long trips and done weekend riding; but I'm going to start commuting everyday and wanted to knock all the rust off good riding habits.
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Jun 14, 2013 15:09
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Bruiser posted:I've got the BRC2 course (experienced rider course?) tomorrow, and I'm looking forward to it. Just got back on a bike a month or two ago.. I've taken some long trips and done weekend riding; but I'm going to start commuting everyday and wanted to knock all the rust off good riding habits. Let me know how it goes, I've been thinking about taking that course too.
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Jun 14, 2013 17:54
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DJCobol posted:Let me know how it goes, I've been thinking about taking that course too. I reviewed the ARC a few pages back. Not worth the time/money IMHO.
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Jun 15, 2013 00:58
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Thanks for the input. Signed up for an October class with MD DMV. On a whim, I signed the wife up too. She was...surprised and a bit apprehensive.
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Jun 15, 2013 03:17
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Evil SpongeBob posted:Thanks for the input. Signed up for an October class with MD DMV. As an MSF instructor, please stay separate during the range exercises. Offer encouragement only, let the instructors be critical and only jump in if they are real jerks or you feel they are asking for something unsafe to be done. Nothing on you personally because I know neither you or your wife, but most husband/wife, boyfriend/girlfriend, or parent/child pairings are an utter pain if the two have a great difference in riding experience. Other time one or the other is so nervous of screwing up in front of their partner that they just screw up worse and worse. We'll have one come back at the earliest opening and they'll sail through and are noticeably more relaxed. I hope you two enjoy the class and have a good experience. Let us know how it goes.
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Jun 15, 2013 15:15
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That's interesting. We both have zero experience, and I see how splitting up would benefit. Thanks.
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Jun 16, 2013 03:39
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I just finished the basic MSF course in Vegas with the most badass instructor ever. She was the first female LAPD motorcycle cop, former professional baja racer, winning contestant on the original American Gladiators, and a current Goldwing technical competition rider: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBP3A8uJj70 I'm not sure if it was inspirational or just disheartening to see her effortlessly throw the Goldwing through the small box. It certainly didn't help me any. My deductions on the test:
My entire class did much more poorly during the test than practice runs, myself included. Maybe we can blame two straight days in 100 degree heat. Well, I passed by the skin of my teeth, so this means I am a fully educated and perfect rider in the eyes of the state of Nevada 
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Jun 17, 2013 00:07
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ManicJason posted:
Double U-Turn What bike were you on? The Honda Rebels and the Yamaha Star 250s have a bit more rake to them than most standards. The front ends feel "floppy" until you get used to it. I can do the double u-turn with plenty of space to spare on every other bike we have, and including my Bandit 1250 and Bandit 600, I can do it on the Star and the Rebel, I just use more of the available space. Did you try the exercise in second gear? I find that first gear is a bit much and feathering the clutch while in second smooths that out quite a bit. The only other thing I can think of is using all of the available space. A bunch of folks after completing the first u-turn don't go all they way back to the line before starting the next turn. Constantly I see people put just the front wheel 6 - 12 inches on the other side of the line when they started two feet away from the opposite side. Breaking Distance You should have been told that it was an emergency stop and you needed to come to an immediate stop as quickly and as safely as you could. It's part of the instructions in the range course pamphlet. The decreasing radius turn catches a lot of people out. Things to think about : Were you at the "outside" when you started the curve? A lot of folks ride right down the middle to the breaking area and don't really "set up" for the corner by moving to the outside (to the left). The corner can still be completed but you're not giving yourself all of the available space and things feel "tighter". Were you going faster than you felt comfortable? Combined with not "setting up" for the curve the feeling of "I'm going too fast and I'm running out of space", is the second culprit. Tipping into that corner everyone rolls into it like the 90* corner, and suddenly it's 135*. Instead of pushing on the bar a bit more and continuing to roll on the throttle a little, a lot of people let off the throttle and decelerate.
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Jun 17, 2013 01:16
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