Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Papercut
Aug 24, 2005

kastein posted:

basically... good loving luck.

The nylon does not carry a signal, it's used as the filler for the conductor to make it more flexible and stronger in tension so it takes longer to metal fatigue the conductors. It also makes it pure hell to solder that wire.

I usually throw em out and buy another pair.

Yeah, in college I tried to do a project with an SNES controller and discovered that it was wired the same way as those headphones. Getting any type of clean signal out of those wires was a loving nightmare.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

I'm going to be installing a recessed light above my shower this weekend. Do I need to use a glass shower trim or can I just use one the those LED retrofit trim kits instead?

babyeatingpsychopath
Oct 28, 2000
Forum Veteran


FCKGW posted:

I'm going to be installing a recessed light above my shower this weekend. Do I need to use a glass shower trim or can I just use one the those LED retrofit trim kits instead?

Get whatever's rated for wet location (410.10(D)). Looks like that one is.

eddiewalker
Apr 28, 2004

Arrrr ye landlubber

Papercut posted:

Yeah, in college I tried to do a project with an SNES controller and discovered that it was wired the same way as those headphones. Getting any type of clean signal out of those wires was a loving nightmare.

Its easier to open the controller and solder directly to the PCB, or in the earlier poster's situation, directly to the headphone drivers if they're worth the cost of a few feet of cable.

Dietrich
Sep 11, 2001

I am getting ready to install an over the range microwave and the existing hood is wired in to the house line directly via a splice instead of an outlet and plug. Is it necessary to install an outlet in the cabinet or can I just strip the microwaves cord and splice it in, giving it enough slack to be able to raise and lower the microwave ?

ShadowStalker
Apr 14, 2006
I'd add the outlet. A retrofit box and outlet will cost less than $5 and won't take too much time to do.

General_Failure
Apr 17, 2005
I really had no idea where to put this question.

In my kitchen we have a stove. I know, revolutionary concept. It's a 900mm wide gas one with a cover / spatter guard that pivots back.
This stove is in a fireplace where I assume the original wood one was. before the lovely little electric one was there which I took great pleasure into kicking out of the trailer into the metal heap at the dump.

The thing is, it doesn't have a range hood, but it really needs one. Someone fitted a fan in the chimney that's plugged into a power point in the chimney, but that's not very useful. I need a range hood both for extraction and to stop poo poo from the ancient chimney falling down.

Would something like this fit in a fireplace?
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Chef-Retractable-Range-Hood-900-ML-Brand-New-In-Box-/290928702270
I'm not asking about mine in particular even. I just want to know if that is what this kind of range hood is for. I'd have to work out the measurements etc.

And if it did fit, what the hell do I do with the power point that would be where the thick bit which I'm assuming houses the fan etc goes? Shift it up or something? I don't know are these things hardwired or plug in?

grover
Jan 23, 2002

PEW PEW PEW
:circlefap::circlefap::circlefap:
:circlefap::circlefap::circlefap:
:circlefap::circlefap::circlefap:
:circlefap::circlefap::circlefap:
:circlefap::circlefap::circlefap:
:circlefap::circlefap::circlefap:

ShadowStalker posted:

I'd add the outlet. A retrofit box and outlet will cost less than $5 and won't take too much time to do.
Seconding this; definitely the better and more code-compliant approach, and not at all that hard to do. With added caution, though: fan hoods draw next to no power and are generally fed from a lighting circuit. OTR microwaves draw a lot of power and because they're a "built in" appliance over 12A, they're supposed to have a dedicated 20A circuit. You might want to look and see what else is on that circuit and make sure you're not overloading it; worst-case, you might need to tap off one of the 20A kitchen appliance circuits instead, or even add a brand new circuit.

Dietrich
Sep 11, 2001

grover posted:

Seconding this; definitely the better and more code-compliant approach, and not at all that hard to do. With added caution, though: fan hoods draw next to no power and are generally fed from a lighting circuit. OTR microwaves draw a lot of power and because they're a "built in" appliance over 12A, they're supposed to have a dedicated 20A circuit. You might want to look and see what else is on that circuit and make sure you're not overloading it; worst-case, you might need to tap off one of the 20A kitchen appliance circuits instead, or even add a brand new circuit.

God dammit.

Thanks for the warning.

Ultimate Shrek Fan
May 2, 2005

by FactsAreUseless
Gotta bring flex up to about 15 rooftop units tomorrow. Has to get done by tomorrow or else. Never done a rooftop unit before but from what I understand they're pretty straight forward. I just hope the foreman ordered enough flex to do it all. Something like 2 rolls of 3/4 and a roll of 1"

randomidiot
May 12, 2006

by Fluffdaddy

(and can't post for 11 years!)

grover posted:

Seconding this; definitely the better and more code-compliant approach, and not at all that hard to do. With added caution, though: fan hoods draw next to no power and are generally fed from a lighting circuit. OTR microwaves draw a lot of power and because they're a "built in" appliance over 12A, they're supposed to have a dedicated 20A circuit. You might want to look and see what else is on that circuit and make sure you're not overloading it; worst-case, you might need to tap off one of the 20A kitchen appliance circuits instead, or even add a brand new circuit.

FWIW, during the "remodel" of an apartment complex I lived in, they ripped out the original (hard wired) hood. Installed an outlet, popped an over the stove microwave in...

1300 watt microwave. 15 amp lighting circuit that covered almost all of the overhead lighting in the apartment, plus a room's worth of outlets. They claimed they had no idea why I was dealing with that breaker tripping anytime I used the microwave with anything else on, they told my neighbors the same thing. My UPS would also go completely apeshit when the microwave was on, and the fluorescent light in the kitchen would start strobing. ~500 unit apartment complex, all treated the same way... :doh:

I loved having a built in microwave, but they really really went overboard on them and went with the most powerful GE units available. Watching the installation was also a bit of :ohdear: too, since they cut in a new outlet + box without turning off any breakers.

e: early 80s FPE panel, the fact that the breaker actually tripped told me that breaker had to be massively overloaded, because FPE.

randomidiot fucked around with this message at 11:54 on Jun 15, 2013

Farside
Aug 11, 2002
I love my Commodore 64
I have a problem and I have no idea what is causing it.

Everything in my house seemed like it was being under powered. All the lights would go dim and some of our computers / appliances shut themselves off. I thought it was a grid problem as it was happening randomly in spurts of 10 - 20 seconds every 5 - 10 minutes.

Long story short I was sitting at my computer which shares a wall with my utility room and I heard what sounded like electrical arcing. I grabbed a flash light and quickly killed the main breaker. I popped the main panel cover off and looked for signs of burning or scorched wires and couldn't find any. I turned the main back on and and waited.

I finally heard the popping sound again. Only it wasn't coming from the breaker box. It was coming from the earth ground attached to my main water line.

You can see a small glowing spot on the clamp and my voltage tester is not showing any voltage to ground.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zY4kS5guYKE


After tooling around a little while I could ascertain the following

1. I found a breaker that when turned on I could reliably get the ground to go hot. The voltage tester would beep slowly with intervals of not beeping (which is when the above pic and video were taken)vs fast beeping when testing the breaker itself. If I killed the breaker the ground would never make the tester show hot and the glowing immediately went away. If I turned it back on the glowing would come back.

2. Oddly I found that if my computer is on I can get the ground to go hot. It's the tower only that does this. I tested the outlets with an outlet tester and it showed they were wired correctly.

3. the screws on the clamp are severely rusted and the clamp itself is loose.


I would assume that I need a new ground clamp and a new breaker at least. Could a bad breaker be causing this?

I lent my multimeter out so it is not available for testing purposes until Monday.

Three-Phase
Aug 5, 2006

by zen death robot
Is that ground connection carrying both your neutral and ground? If that pipe is carrying neutral and earth current, and the connection is flaky, that could be causing the problem.

Do you have a multimeter to check the outlet voltages? If you do and some are high and others are low (110 + 130 = 240) then the neutral connection is broken at the panel.

This is absolutely worth calling an electrician immediately on.

angryrobots
Mar 31, 2005

Seconding a broken or loose neutral at your panel, meterbase, or possibly even a power company connection. Call an electrician, not an amateur repair you got there. And don't run anything electronic, a mssing neutral will cause voltage to go nuts under load and will fry your tv/computer.

Laminator
Jan 18, 2004

You up for some serious plastic surgery?

kid sinister posted:

Whatever circuit it's on, don't go by the wire gauge. Yellow is the modern color for 12 gauge cable and only became standard within the past decade. Any home built that recently wouldn't need a flipper yet. That box was a retrofit. The mortar around it looks half assed anyway. Still, that newness can be your next clue. How about the obvious? What room is on the other side of that wall?

Sorry for the late reply, went out of town for a few days.

I guess I should give some more info about my house. Before I bought it, the flippers tore the inside of the house down to the studs and rebuilt. As far as I know, all the wiring is about 3 years old. No basement and no electricity running to the garage.

Here's a pic of my breaker box.


The east bedroom, west bedroom, and bathroom all are running on their own breakers, and when one of the bedroom breakers trips, it only affects that bedroom - none of the outlets or lights in the other bedroom or bathroom are affected. The GFCI I replaced is running on the west bedroom breaker. I also remembered that last year I was running a 15A miter saw off the west bedroom outlet and it ran fine.

When I ran the mower in my front yard, it was running off the "Front Living Room" breaker, which is also 20A, and again I had no problems.

:confused:

Farside
Aug 11, 2002
I love my Commodore 64
Sorry for the late reply. I decided to kill the power completely and went to bed. I left this morning to go and get my multimeter that a friend borrowed

Three-Phase posted:

Is that ground connection carrying both your neutral and ground? If that pipe is carrying neutral and earth current, and the connection is flaky, that could be causing the problem.

Do you have a multimeter to check the outlet voltages? If you do and some are high and others are low (110 + 130 = 240) then the neutral connection is broken at the panel.

This is absolutely worth calling an electrician immediately on.

The ground and neutral are on the same bus.

I did not have my multimeter last night. However I have one of the home theater surge protectors that shows the voltage. It was randomly going from 124 to 129 volts last night when it usually is a rock solid 119 volts. It also tripped and if I recall correctly it trips on anything greater than 130 volts.

I may have also found a code violation. Code requires 2 earth grounds at least 6' apart from each other right? As far as I can tell the only earth ground is the one attached to the main water line.


angryrobots posted:

Seconding a broken or loose neutral at your panel, meterbase, or possibly even a power company connection. Call an electrician, not an amateur repair you got there. And don't run anything electronic, a mssing neutral will cause voltage to go nuts under load and will fry your tv/computer.

I would have called an electrician but I apparently repaired the problem before I had a chance to read your posts.

First thing I did was to check all the connections. I did find a slightly loose neutral. I then replaced the breaker with a new one and I replaced the ground clamp with a new one. The old clamp screws disintegrated when I grabbed it. Everything is back to normal now. I checked random outlets throughout the house and they all read 119/120 volts. All the breakers are on and I am not reading any voltage through the earth ground.

Three-Phase
Aug 5, 2006

by zen death robot
Farside, you're probably not going to like this but based on what you described, if you can scrape together the funds to cover it I would strongly recommend still calling an electrician to at least look over the system to make sure nothing else is funky.

angryrobots
Mar 31, 2005

Or at least call the power company and get them to check their connections. We will HAPPILY do that to avoid burning someone's stuff up.

Where was the loose neutral you tightened up? If it was just on one individual circuit in your panel box, that doesn't solve why your whole house was having problems as your describe. Is your multimeter a clamp-on?

Farside
Aug 11, 2002
I love my Commodore 64

angryrobots posted:

Or at least call the power company and get them to check their connections. We will HAPPILY do that to avoid burning someone's stuff up.

Where was the loose neutral you tightened up? If it was just on one individual circuit in your panel box, that doesn't solve why your whole house was having problems as your describe. Is your multimeter a clamp-on?

The loose neutral was for one individual circuit, coincidently most of the lights and appliances / electronics that I noticed having problems share the same side of the breaker box the loose wire was on. I confirmed with my wife that not everything was affected.

The house was basically with out a ground. The top of the clamp was just resting on top of the pipe. The bottom was sitting on the floor and the screws Were paper thin rusticles and may not have even been attached to the top part of the clamp.

My multimeter is not a clamp on.

I have called the power company and they will be out to check their connections. They are extremely helpful with these kind of things. I had a slight gas leak from a bad valve when I bought the house last year. Technically anything beyond their meter is my responsibility but they fixed it anyway for free.


EDIT: Power company just left. The guy spent about 45 minutes helping me figure out what the hell was going on. Things we found out.

1. Power company connections are fine
2. Voltage across each leg is 119 and 122
3. Total voltage is 241
4. total voltage / each leg barely moved when put under load
5. the earth ground had current going through it
6. after testing all of the circuits and turning on/off various high draw electronics and appliances we found 2 circuits that were contributing to the ground current.

These 2 circuits happen to be the oldest left in the house. They also do not have a dedicated ground. They have romex spliced into what appears to be old cloth covered wires. These splices happen inside of metal boxes in the basement and then runs through metal conduit to the breaker box.

Current plan is to remove the old cloth wire and run new wire with ground from the breaker to the junction boxes where the cloth/romex splices are. Retest the ground to make sure that solved the problem.

Is there anything else I should be looking out for?

Farside fucked around with this message at 02:55 on Jun 17, 2013

socketwrencher
Apr 10, 2012

Be still and know.
Is there any danger in leaving NM cable laying on top of drywall in the ceiling? This is 12-2 that goes from a switch to a light fixture. I cut out a piece of the ceiling to repair some water damage and saw the cable laying directly on top of the drywall. Thanks for any help on this.

Bad Munki
Nov 4, 2008

We're all mad here.


I'm going to cross-post this from the Tools thread because it seems like an also-good place to ask:

I have this motor that's about 50 years old. It needs to be cleaned.











Any advice on how best to approach this? I was thinking about just going nuts with compressed air and trying to blast everything out, but I'm wondering if there's a better method for getting a good deep clean, all the way down to the taint and beyond. Like, maybe a soak in kerosene or something? I don't know what might be considered going to far.

Ultimate Shrek Fan
May 2, 2005

by FactsAreUseless

socketwrencher posted:

Is there any danger in leaving NM cable laying on top of drywall in the ceiling? This is 12-2 that goes from a switch to a light fixture. I cut out a piece of the ceiling to repair some water damage and saw the cable laying directly on top of the drywall. Thanks for any help on this.

The only real danger is cutting or drilling into it.

angryrobots
Mar 31, 2005

Farside posted:


Is there anything else I should be looking out for?
Those two circuits you mention - you saw current to earth when those circuits have load on them, or when just energized? How much current are we talking about here? Do you share a transformer with a neighbor?

I -suspect- but certainly cannot guarantee, that removing the cloth wire will not solve the earth current, but it should be done in any case because old cloth covered wire is a hazard.

babyeatingpsychopath
Oct 28, 2000
Forum Veteran


socketwrencher posted:

Is there any danger in leaving NM cable laying on top of drywall in the ceiling? This is 12-2 that goes from a switch to a light fixture. I cut out a piece of the ceiling to repair some water damage and saw the cable laying directly on top of the drywall. Thanks for any help on this.

According to code, it's gotta be stapled every 4' if possible. If it was fished in before, that's OK, but now that you can see it, go ahead and put a staple on it so it's centered on the joist.

Farside
Aug 11, 2002
I love my Commodore 64

angryrobots posted:

Those two circuits you mention - you saw current to earth when those circuits have load on them, or when just energized? How much current are we talking about here? Do you share a transformer with a neighbor?

I -suspect- but certainly cannot guarantee, that removing the cloth wire will not solve the earth current, but it should be done in any case because old cloth covered wire is a hazard.

I talked to my plant manager today who once upon a time was a commercial/industrial electrician (he still does the odd electrical stuff around the plant when the need arises) he said 9 times out of 10 when he found similar circumstances to mine that replacing the ungrounded wire in metal conduit solved the problem. The only caveat to that was the assumption that there wasn't a problem further down the line somewhere else. He also let me borrow an analog clamp meter so I could test after I replaced the cloth wire.

Worst case scenario it doesn't work and I have to replace the whole circuit, which was my plan in the future anyway. I just have to make it priority now instead of leaving it for some other time.

The current readings were under load. The reading would go down if I unplugged / turned things off, they never went completely away. However, I never had any one circuit just energized, there was always some sort of load. I did this with the power company when we were trying to figure out what was going on.

The 2 circuits are contributing ~1.5 Amps each for a total of ~3. The one circuit has a small deep freezer on it and when the compressor kicks on it jumps to 9ish and settles back down. If I turn absolutely everything on this circuit I can get it up to ~12 amps.

There is a transformer on my street how do I know if I am sharing it with a neighbor?

I was also reading up on the current method of grounding in my house. Apparently it isn't the safest thing.

If you do a search for lead it it the 4th instance down.
http://inspectapedia.com/electric/Electrical_Ground_Inspection.htm

I will be calling electricians tomorrow to have ground rods put in. I'll start replacing the wire tomorrow, not sure if I will get it all done since I'm not completely sure how much of the old crap is running through the metal conduits.

babyeatingpsychopath
Oct 28, 2000
Forum Veteran


Farside posted:

I talked to my plant manager today who once upon a time was a commercial/industrial electrician (he still does the odd electrical stuff around the plant when the need arises) he said 9 times out of 10 when he found similar circumstances to mine that replacing the ungrounded wire in metal conduit solved the problem. The only caveat to that was the assumption that there wasn't a problem further down the line somewhere else. He also let me borrow an analog clamp meter so I could test after I replaced the cloth wire.

Worst case scenario it doesn't work and I have to replace the whole circuit, which was my plan in the future anyway. I just have to make it priority now instead of leaving it for some other time.

The current readings were under load. The reading would go down if I unplugged / turned things off, they never went completely away. However, I never had any one circuit just energized, there was always some sort of load. I did this with the power company when we were trying to figure out what was going on.

The 2 circuits are contributing ~1.5 Amps each for a total of ~3. The one circuit has a small deep freezer on it and when the compressor kicks on it jumps to 9ish and settles back down. If I turn absolutely everything on this circuit I can get it up to ~12 amps.

There is a transformer on my street how do I know if I am sharing it with a neighbor?

I was also reading up on the current method of grounding in my house. Apparently it isn't the safest thing.

If you do a search for lead it it the 4th instance down.
http://inspectapedia.com/electric/Electrical_Ground_Inspection.htm

I will be calling electricians tomorrow to have ground rods put in. I'll start replacing the wire tomorrow, not sure if I will get it all done since I'm not completely sure how much of the old crap is running through the metal conduits.

I'd put in a vote for getting the electricians to replace the wire and you install the ground rods. One is easy and obvious that it's done right, the other is hard and requires a bit of technical expertise.

The fact that you've got current with everything off/unplugged means that you've got a leaking wire somewhere. Bad insulation, busted outlet, something. Current = heat. Since you can't see it, it's inside your wall, hopefully not about to burn your house down.

Farside
Aug 11, 2002
I love my Commodore 64

babyeatingpsychopath posted:

I'd put in a vote for getting the electricians to replace the wire and you install the ground rods. One is easy and obvious that it's done right, the other is hard and requires a bit of technical expertise.

The fact that you've got current with everything off/unplugged means that you've got a leaking wire somewhere. Bad insulation, busted outlet, something. Current = heat. Since you can't see it, it's inside your wall, hopefully not about to burn your house down.

I never said everything was unplugged. Only that when I turned things off / unplugged them that the current dropped. I have no doubt that there is lovely wire, broken outlets etc. Because i have found plenty of both. The number of things wrong with the wiring that have been replaced in the last year is stupid.

I am posting from a phone so trying to get complete and coherent thoughts into the post without it taking an hour to type up us a pain in the rear end.

I understand that this is a problem and you guys are looking out for me. If I can't fix this problem by either replacing the non grounded cloth covered wire or by replacing the entire circuit then I will get my plant manager to come over. If I can't get him I'll hire an electrician. I don't want you to think I'm blowing you off.

angryrobots
Mar 31, 2005

I said what I did (about maybe not being able to get rid of the earth current) because electricity will take all paths, even unintentional and more resistive ones. Especially if you share a transformer and a water pipe with a neighbor, the current sees this as a parallel path and you may see some current no matter what you do. One thing I forgot about since you have an older house - your ground and neutral are separated after the meterbase right? The neutral bar should be isolated and separate from the ground in all panels after the power company makes their connections in the meterbase.

But by all means, make sure that you have a good earth ground and all your neutrals are tight and good. Adding some ground rods per code is a great idea and could very well save your rear end if an overvoltage event (lighting) happens. And removing ungrounded cloth wire is always a good idea, that stuff was pretty crap when new.

Oh yeah...if you have an underground electric service...make sure whoever installs the new ground rods gets a locate before proceeding so they don't damage your service wire. As an aside, we have a big problem with electricians installing temp poles in new subdivisions right over existing underground primary (7200/12470v). Had one drive a 5/8 ground rod right through the pipe and primary wire. Good system coordination saved that guy's rear end. Lord knows how many have gone way too close for comfort.

kid sinister
Nov 16, 2002

angryrobots posted:

As an aside, we have a big problem with electricians installing temp poles in new subdivisions right over existing underground primary (7200/12470v). Had one drive a 5/8 ground rod right through the pipe and primary wire. Good system coordination saved that guy's rear end. Lord knows how many have gone way too close for comfort.

Wait, so the pros don't "call before you dig"? :confused:

edit: I just learned not to do a Google image search of "cable clamping". What the gently caress is wrong with people? :awesome:

kid sinister fucked around with this message at 04:17 on Jun 19, 2013

Farside
Aug 11, 2002
I love my Commodore 64
Just a quick update before I go to bed because I'm exhausted. Did a fuckton of testing to find out the problem.

Opened up a junction box where the the cloth wire is spliced into the romex feeding some of the outlets and lights in my basement. There were 5 branches stuffed into a standard size metal junction box. I eliminated 2 of the branches completely because the rooms will be on a new circuit that will be run. The remaining 3 branches feed the following. branch #1 1 outlet branch #2 2 outlets branch #3 4 outlets.

In the junction box there were no wire nuts on anything, splices were only wrapped in electrical tape. The neutrals had discoloration from what was most likely excessive heat buildup.

Hopefully the image attaches and sorry for the lovely pic if it does attach properly



While I had the branches apart I replaced the old cloth hot and neutral with new hot, neutral and ground. I also tested each branch for continuity and did not find anything anomalous, hot had continuity with hot etc etc. for each of the branches. There was no funky things like neutral having continuity with ground etc

I wire nutted everything back together and flipped the breaker on and...... still had the exact same problem. I had all the other breakers off when I did this so I know it wasn't coming from somewhere else.

Looks like a new circuit will be going in this weekend. What are the chances of me having the same problems?

Also here is some info from other posts that I didn't have at the time

Main breaker off = 0A
main breaker on with all breakers off = 0A
Main breaker on with only this circuit on with nothing plugged in = 0A
Main breaker on with only this circuit on with random things plugged in for testing purposes = ~0.5A to ~1.5A

I was also curious as to what the voltage was if I disconnected the ground clamp and measured the voltage from the ground wire to the water pipe. It was ~24V. This was with all the breakers on. I was actually expecting it to be more.


angryrobots posted:

I said what I did (about maybe not being able to get rid of the earth current) because electricity will take all paths, even unintentional and more resistive ones. Especially if you share a transformer and a water pipe with a neighbor, the current sees this as a parallel path and you may see some current no matter what you do. One thing I forgot about since you have an older house - your ground and neutral are separated after the meterbase right? The neutral bar should be isolated and separate from the ground in all panels after the power company makes their connections in the meterbase.

But by all means, make sure that you have a good earth ground and all your neutrals are tight and good. Adding some ground rods per code is a great idea and could very well save your rear end if an overvoltage event (lighting) happens. And removing ungrounded cloth wire is always a good idea, that stuff was pretty crap when new.

Oh yeah...if you have an underground electric service...make sure whoever installs the new ground rods gets a locate before proceeding so they don't damage your service wire. As an aside, we have a big problem with electricians installing temp poles in new subdivisions right over existing underground primary (7200/12470v). Had one drive a 5/8 ground rod right through the pipe and primary wire. Good system coordination saved that guy's rear end. Lord knows how many have gone way too close for comfort.

I have 3 wires coming in from the meterbase. 2 hots and a bare wire which is attached to my neutral/ground bars.

One again I hope it attaches and apoligize for the lovely picture


My service is from a pole and not underground.

socketwrencher
Apr 10, 2012

Be still and know.

Pufflekins posted:

The only real danger is cutting or drilling into it.

Thanks. This is my sister's new place and there's no plan to drill or cut the ceiling. Her time/budget is pretty tight so she would like to leave it as is if it's not a huge risk/danger.

socketwrencher
Apr 10, 2012

Be still and know.

babyeatingpsychopath posted:

According to code, it's gotta be stapled every 4' if possible. If it was fished in before, that's OK, but now that you can see it, go ahead and put a staple on it so it's centered on the joist.

Much appreciated. I could staple it right where I opened the ceiling, but it goes across the room (parallel to the joist), about 20 feet, so it would be time-consuming to open up multiple holes in the ceiling and staple it all the way across.

babyeatingpsychopath
Oct 28, 2000
Forum Veteran


socketwrencher posted:

Much appreciated. I could staple it right where I opened the ceiling, but it goes across the room (parallel to the joist), about 20 feet, so it would be time-consuming to open up multiple holes in the ceiling and staple it all the way across.

Yeah. Just staple it where you can see it, that's fine. It'll really confuse the remodelers.... "Why's this only stapled for two feet in the middle of the room?! That's laziness."

angryrobots
Mar 31, 2005

Farside posted:

While I had the branches apart I replaced the old cloth hot and neutral with new hot, neutral and ground. I also tested each branch for continuity and did not find anything anomalous, hot had continuity with hot etc etc. for each of the branches. There was no funky things like neutral having continuity with ground etc

I wire nutted everything back together and flipped the breaker on and...... still had the exact same problem. I had all the other breakers off when I did this so I know it wasn't coming from somewhere else.

Looks like a new circuit will be going in this weekend. What are the chances of me having the same problems?

I dunno about "chances" but like I said before, the unbalanced current will take all paths, even unintentional ones. The important thing is that your neutral connections are good. If you were able to remove the earth ground, and still run a 120v load off the affected circuit with good voltage, then it is probably just some parallel current you are looking at there. Get rid of that cloth junk, put in some romex with a ground, make good connections, and don't sweat it. Oh yeah and bond your ground at all metal junction boxes.

Farside posted:

I have 3 wires coming in from the meterbase. 2 hots and a bare wire which is attached to my neutral/ground bars.

One again I hope it attaches and apoligize for the lovely picture


My service is from a pole and not underground.
By current (no pun intended) code, you should have a 4-wire service entrance cable from your meterbase to this interior panel you pictured. In this pictured panel, the ground bar should be bonded to the panel can, and the neutral bar should be isolated and separate. I would imagine you probably just have one big bar with all your neutrals and grounds on it, because you have an older service.

socketwrencher
Apr 10, 2012

Be still and know.

babyeatingpsychopath posted:

Yeah. Just staple it where you can see it, that's fine. It'll really confuse the remodelers.... "Why's this only stapled for two feet in the middle of the room?! That's laziness."

Ha- exactly. My sister is planning to live in this house for a loooong time, so I think the risk of any inadvertent cutting into the wire is low. Certainly if she ever decides to sell, she'll inform the buyer.

Farside
Aug 11, 2002
I love my Commodore 64

angryrobots posted:

I dunno about "chances" but like I said before, the unbalanced current will take all paths, even unintentional ones. The important thing is that your neutral connections are good. If you were able to remove the earth ground, and still run a 120v load off the affected circuit with good voltage, then it is probably just some parallel current you are looking at there. Get rid of that cloth junk, put in some romex with a ground, make good connections, and don't sweat it. Oh yeah and bond your ground at all metal junction boxes.

By current (no pun intended) code, you should have a 4-wire service entrance cable from your meterbase to this interior panel you pictured. In this pictured panel, the ground bar should be bonded to the panel can, and the neutral bar should be isolated and separate. I would imagine you probably just have one big bar with all your neutrals and grounds on it, because you have an older service.

To answer your previous question about the transformer I do share one with my next door neighbor. The house has about 75% new wire with more going in as the money becomes available. You are correct in the assumption the the ground and neutrals share bar space as there is no grounding bar attached to the panel.

Bad Munki
Nov 4, 2008

We're all mad here.


babyeatingpsychopath posted:

Bad Munki posted:

So the 240V thing is working great.

I've got another tool with a big-rear end motor on it, an ancient jointer. The plate on it lists both 120V and 240V amperage, so I know it can be wired for 240V. Thing is, I have no idea how. With my table saw, it had a wiring diagram for both voltages, which was good, because there are 8 wires coming out of that motor and the 120 vs. 240 configurations were quite different. For my jointer motor, though, there are only four wires, and I have no idea how to wire them up for 240. I don't have to use 240 on this tool, but if I got it, why not? The closest outlet will be 240 anyhow, so I might as well.

Like I said, there are four wires. Two red, and two green. Currently wired for 120, they are connected to the hot/neutral in opposite pairs. That is, red+green->black, and red+green->white. Any ideas on what I should do for 240 on this thing?
Ok, so your motor looks about like so:
pre:
~~~~~  ~~~~~  <- these are the coils in the motor
|   |  |   |      They're actually wound on top of each other.
R   R  G   G
You need to get the outer red and green to each leg of your 240, and the inner red and green together. Unfortunately, the only way to know which is which is to wire it up one way. If it spins promptly, you're set. If it hums, spins lazily, or gets hot, yank the plug and swap pairs.

edit: unless, of course, there are subtle markings that identify the wires. Little tags with "abcd" or "1234" or something. X1 X2 Y1 Y2.... Something.

Dredging this up from way back. I've been largely ignoring my jointer since I originally tackled this, but I've finished the new stand for it and re-wired my outlet to have four 240VAC outlets, which is great, I can plug in all my big tools and have an outlet to spare.

Problem with the jointer motor referenced above, though. When I turn it on, it spins up and runs, but after, I don't know, 5-10 seconds, it trips the breaker. I tried swapping the wires to make sure I had it wired right, but doing so just makes it go "AHHHHHHHH" when I turn it on and it doesn't move, so that's obviously not right. I've tried turning it on with a load and without (i.e. removing the belt so it's just free-spinning.) It behaves exactly the same either way. The axle spins freely enough, I think: it's not like I can give it a spin and watch it turn for a whole minute, but it'll give maybe a whole turn or so just spinning it once by hand and letting go.

Also, this last time I turned it on, I was watching it from the other side and I saw a spark fly out the vent right when I fired it up. Ran for 5-10 seconds, then tripped the breaker.

Any ideas as to what's going wrong, and how to trouble shoot it? I'd be tempted to just flat out replace it, but I don't really want to spend $100-200 on a new motor for this old tool when I'll be getting it replaced in a few years for free (that's an unrelated story, but is my motivation for wanting to get this motor working "good enough for now.")

For reference, it's also the same motor I was cleaning out a few posts back. It looks waaaay better on the inside now. I just hope I didn't screw something up in the process. I doubt I did, it was a pretty simple disassembly, but :iiam:

babyeatingpsychopath
Oct 28, 2000
Forum Veteran


Bad Munki posted:

Any ideas as to what's going wrong, and how to trouble shoot it? I'd be tempted to just flat out replace it, but I don't really want to spend $100-200 on a new motor for this old tool when I'll be getting it replaced in a few years for free (that's an unrelated story, but is my motivation for wanting to get this motor working "good enough for now.")

For reference, it's also the same motor I was cleaning out a few posts back. It looks waaaay better on the inside now. I just hope I didn't screw something up in the process. I doubt I did, it was a pretty simple disassembly, but :iiam:

If it's the motor you were cleaning, I'm going to guess it's a centrifugal switch not disengaging and leaving the start windings engaged. These are fairly high current, and that's probably tripping the breaker. The switch should be something attached to the rotor with springs on it. I see something covered in filth that matches that description in your pictures. Make sure it's clean, the springs aren't too tight, and there's sufficient nonconductive lubricant in that area.

Bad Munki
Nov 4, 2008

We're all mad here.


Great, will do, thanks! I'll post a trip report one way or another, hopefully good news. (Also, that filth-covered part is now MUCH better after I blasted all the poo poo off it.)

Any common names for an appropriate lubricant?

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

babyeatingpsychopath
Oct 28, 2000
Forum Veteran


Bad Munki posted:

Great, will do, thanks! I'll post a trip report one way or another, hopefully good news. (Also, that filth-covered part is now MUCH better after I blasted all the poo poo off it.)

Any common names for an appropriate lubricant?

Electrical contact cleaner/lubricant. Silicone spray.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply