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LargeHadron posted:So maybe 90% in terms of unshakability then? At first it looks like 90%, but then you have to consider how the number is rotated in the image to be viewed at an angle. Also the border of the number is raised, which is pretty significant. So, I'd say it's a 95% match. Anyway, I think Harvard-Radcliffe is our best lead for this.
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Jun 17, 2013 23:07
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xie posted:edit: It's next to the church and this building: Austin Hall (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/80/Austin_Hall%2C_Harvard_University.JPG) which is a venerable "what's what" of various possible matches. It was designed by the same man who did Trinity Church. And the Harvard-Epworth church. I've said this before, but perhaps this bears repeating. Since we haven't found any exact matches to anything from the image for so long, we really should be searching for discrete elements from it combined in some way. So, Austin Hall is definitely a good candidate from that perspective. However, the checkerboard pattern in particular appears on many buildings of this type in Boston. It's called Richardsonian Romanesque after the architect. Incidentally, the 'Romanesque' part is a good match for the treasure.
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Jun 17, 2013 23:15
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I think, in general, that's a good strategy. The images from the other locations were all nearby, but some were from the next garden over. The pillars were near the entrance but not next to the wall in Cleveland, etc. Weren't there no direct images in Chicago? The Bowman statue is elsewhere in the park, the Water Tower is like 10 minutes away, etc. By no direct images I mean no images visible from the dig spot.
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Jun 17, 2013 23:25
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Quick note: Hauser hall has a really nice circular gateway but was constructed in 1994. Historic aerials show that the spot used to be empty before. There is that nice bit of green there. Perhaps, if you stood where Hauser hall is now, you would see Harvard-Epworth church and Austin hall and the Memorial Church and that was supposed to be a clue? (You wouldn't see Hastings Hall for sure, though.) Here is what I mean:  Edit 2: I remember now. Austin Hall is the one with the line from Exodus 18:20 "And thou shalt teach them ordinances and laws and shalt shew them the way wherein they must walk and the work that they must do". I discarded it before, but now I'm thinking... "area of his direction?" 
Nesetril fucked around with this message at 00:13 on Jun 18, 2013 |
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Jun 17, 2013 23:30
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xie posted:I think, in general, that's a good strategy. The images from the other locations were all nearby, but some were from the next garden over. The pillars were near the entrance but not next to the wall in Cleveland, etc. there was an outline of a fixture that was visible from the dig spot.
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Jun 17, 2013 23:50
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Just checking in, still keeping up with this thread. I'm going to email the property owner at the Fountain of Youth Park tomorrow to follow up on my conversation with him last week. Among other things, I'm going to see if he can specify where exactly he's probed/dug. Anything else anybody wants me to ask?
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Jun 17, 2013 23:53
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Mofette posted:Please bear in mind that the columns in one of the solved pictures look nothing like the real ones! What? The columns quite clearly match on the most distinguishing feature, the head, and questionably on the pole (one has the bands, the other doesn't - the artwork shows without). edit: better image:  both columns do have the banding, but i'd say the columns are still very similar (especially on the most distinguishing feature, the head). Definitely not a "look nothing like" kinda case.
Luminous fucked around with this message at 00:01 on Jun 18, 2013 |
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Jun 17, 2013 23:57
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AARP LARPer fucked around with this message at 01:54 on Jan 23, 2016 |
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Jun 18, 2013 00:07
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Cask 9 I have minor criticism of the logic outlined in the rules of the thread where it has examples of good logic and bad logic. I agree with good logic, it worked to find good visual matches and then to sort out the details of the verse when it came to either Cleveland or Chicago. I tend to be sleep deprived so when I think I'm using good logic, it's actually bad logic. I think there's a need to evolve our good logic to include even better logic. So far, I've seen a lot of healthy searching for visual matches. The prevailing assumption is "find a visual fit, now look around for the casque". The flaw in that is that we don't know how far of a search radius that might be and we assume a dumbed down version of the process. In Cleveland the Terminal Tower fit was miles away from the casque site. In Chicago, the historic water tower was also miles up the road and then several visual matches fit a 2 or 3 block radius. I wish it was easy after finding one visual match, but I don't think that's the case. In fact, we've moved away from the easy match a 95% drawn wall or column and an actual full-sized wall and column to a a partial visual fit with a lamp only to be fully invested in the "look around nearby" tactic. I think we're underestimating the hunt for fear of walking too close to the edge of bad logic, but all we need to do is start asking the right questions. Why a lamp leg? Why THAT lamp in particular? I pursue the question with as few assumptions as possible. The dumbed down method carries the assumption that we are essentially looking for random objects along a path or in an area. No evidence to support any other tactics becomes the basis for the falacy that stumps our progress, which after 31 years should be sinking in. When I look at the lamp leg associated with image 9, and consider nobody has found such a good fit elsewhere in all this time, I want to agree that the site of the Mount Stephen Club is a good fit. Lord Mount Stephen headed the creation of the Canadian Pacific Railway. I think it's natural to consider that the leg of this man's lamp isn't just a random object in an area, but a reason to consider his crowning achievement. The following almost becomes what we are familiar with in Houston's Hermann Park. I discovered that upon completion of the CPRail, the first train to make the journey from Montreal to Vancouver BC was the No.374. In Vancouver's Stanley Park, there's an active miniature train labled No.374. I began researching the Stanley Park area and learned about it's famous story about a Cougar in 1911. I learned about a Native poet named Pauline Johnson who has the only memorial and grave on the entire island. P.J. wrote a poem titled "In the Shadows". The runes looking shapes on the X-square in image 9 look like they could be the letters P and J, only the J is inverted. Same goes for the Latitude number as it could be a 4 sharing the same downstroke with an inverted 9. Vancouver is latitude 49.  I know this has bad logic written all over it, but it keeps getting better. This large art piece called the Gateway to the Northwest Passage looks north at Stanley Park,  Significant rock formation with interpretive plaque about a Native Indian legend, Siwash Rock, 
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Jun 18, 2013 00:13
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Pros: there is an opal connection. Cons: there is nowhere to dig around the rock (joke). Which verse are you claiming?
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Jun 18, 2013 00:26
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oh boy here we go.
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Jun 18, 2013 00:26
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Nesetril posted:Pros: there is an opal connection. Cons: there is nowhere to dig around the rock (joke). Which verse are you claiming? Verse 10: In the shadow
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Jun 18, 2013 00:30
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rookhunter posted:oh boy here we go.
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Jun 18, 2013 00:32
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GWBBQ posted:If you don't like someone's reasoning, you're more than welcome to go dig up a cask and prove them wrong. I am. I won't say another word. I'll let urban smurf present his ideas.
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Jun 18, 2013 00:35
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For what it's worth, the small curvature in the / line of the 4 is almost nonexistant in the book. It may be an artifact from such a high res scan, but it's almost ramrod straight in my copy of the book. I am not saying it's literally the same exact 4 that was photographed, but it's the same 4. The 4 is not something I anticipated to be a clue, but it's out of line with the rest of the printing and the style of the painting as well. I'm proceeding with extreme caution but am going to need to hear something convincing to stop searching that area. Anyone's welcome to join me. I've got a work outing on the Charles on Wednesday - opposite side of the river, but I was going to check out the park closest to harvard stadium just in case. edit: I re-regged on Q4T last week and got all of their questions correct on the little quiz :\ Would love to have my membership approved. xie fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Jun 18, 2013 |
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Jun 18, 2013 00:52
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Holy poo poo, I think I have something big at Harvard. The last line of the poem is "In truth, be free". I just googled that because I had no idea how it could serve as a directive on digging but it sounded familiar. It brought up the bible verse John 8:32 (Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free). There was a different bible verse above so I thought this could be somewhere at Harvard. I googled "john 8:32 harvard" and that brought me directly to this website about Harvard's gates, one of which has that verse above it . The gate has not been open since the mid-1960s and there is no foot traffic there. The gate and house it opens on is named after Phillips Brooks, the rector of Trinity Church (also mentioned recently!). http://isites.harvard.edu/icb/icb.do?keyword=k93345&pageid=icb.page572577   This website looks to be new so that might explain how this has not been found before. It is very near to the other places of interest. It also has a swirly structure vaguely like the painting design. I think this is where the cask is buried, or close to it. There isn't even much grass around it - it's untouched.
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Jun 18, 2013 01:27
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xie posted:edit: I re-regged on Q4T last week and got all of their questions correct on the little quiz :\ Would love to have my membership approved.
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Jun 18, 2013 01:28
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Corek posted:Holy poo poo, I think I have something big at Harvard. Thank you for posting this! - I found this the other day doing research on all of Harvard's gates and forgot to write it down myself & actually had forgotten. edit: It's all next to Dawes Island Park too. edit2: I don't think there's any water or stairs though? I mean the Charles is always lurking, but there's no direct water. There are stairs across the street on the Fine arts library... xie fucked around with this message at 01:41 on Jun 18, 2013 |
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Jun 18, 2013 01:30
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rookhunter posted:IF someone wanted to dig there, I imagine all they would have to do is take a small army shovel and wait until that remote part of the island was empty. The casques that have been found were never deeper than 2 feet down. Most of us could dig that in 15 min. The guys who found the last cask had a really good idea of where it was, and it still took two guys digging for 5 hours to find it. It would only have taken 15 minutes to bury it, but speaking as someone who has dug up pipes in their yard, if you're off by even 6 inches, it's going to take much, much longer.
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Jun 18, 2013 01:51
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There is a placard on Dawes Island that reads: "Passed this place, rode at the gallop at midnight April 18-19, 1775, William Dawes, first rider to alert the Minute Men that the British are marching to Lexington and Concord." http://www.flickr.com/photos/wallyg/4864851332/sizes/l/in/photostream/
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Jun 18, 2013 01:55
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Great find. However, why would you bury something near the perimeter of Cambridge Commons when you could do it inside of Cambridge Commons? Remember, it was a concern for Preiss to not be seen and to not attract attention to the area he dug up. So, if he went in the middle of the park at night, he would be in a relatively hidden position, but if he was right by a major Harvard there would always be a chance for someone to watch him from inside, for example. Also, people might overlook someone digging in a park, but not between Harvard buildings. ^^^^^^^^^^^ OMG Don't forget the Italian memorial stone I found in Cambridge Commons either.
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Jun 18, 2013 01:55
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Luminous posted:What? The columns quite clearly match on the most distinguishing feature, the head, and questionably on the pole (one has the bands, the other doesn't - the artwork shows without). If you look really closely at the top of the real life columns, they aren't perfectly square like in the picture, either. And then the fluting run up the columns. I think that the drawings are meant to be "close enough" so that someone walking by with the picture in hand would recognize them, but that's about it. Likewise, the bowls of the real fountain and the goblet aren't identical. The bowl in the drawing looks a lot deeper. But wandering around the Italian Gardens I bet you would still recognize it. Does anyone know what the artist used as sources? Like did Preiss take photos and provide them to the artist, or just sketches? I wonder if disguising some of the objects in the picture slightly was intentional or just a function of how the drawings were made.   e: timg rather than img vvv Thanks Guuse fucked around with this message at 02:25 on Jun 18, 2013 |
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Jun 18, 2013 01:56
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Cambridge Commons, or quite possibly Dawes Island Park, or a small section of land between Dawes Island Park and Harvard Yard, which is named but not on Google Maps (I can see a sign there, one of the "this place has a name" signs in Boston, but it's illegible on Street View). In Cambridge Commons there is also this: http://www.flickr.com/photos/wallyg/4855204789/in/photostream/ But who knows how far I'm just reaching at this point :\ edit: Preiss sent polaroids to the artist to include.
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Jun 18, 2013 01:58
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Guuse posted:And then the fluting run up the columns. You have a point. The way I heard it is that polaroids were used. However, small-sized polaroids taken at a funny angle and translated by an artist into brush strokes, can end up rather different from the real objects. Yes, that's the Italian memorial. So now we need:
There are still too many things missing. Anyone found a good website for photos of Harvard in 1980? Nesetril fucked around with this message at 02:04 on Jun 18, 2013 |
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Jun 18, 2013 02:00
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rookhunter posted:I am. I'm not objecting to disagreement or saying you're wrong, I don't think it's productive for people to voice their disagreement by letting us know they're rolling their eyes and not saying a word about why. We have to face the fact that the success rate with the popular ideas is less than stellar, and it's not hurting anyone for people to look at it with a fresh pair of eyes and see what they can find. That said, can someone else with a copy of the book look at the pictures under a bright light and tell me if you can see anything in the following locations in the Cask 12 picture? I'm pretty sure I can see patterns, words, and numbers very faintly, but I want to be certain that I'm not looking at printing artifacts or misprinting. -On the light stripe in the water, all the way to the left, below the spray one word, I think the second letter is an X or K -Just below the crest of the wave the wave all the way on the right two lines, first letter of the top one might be E, F, or an art deco B with the right edges slanted in toward the left instead of rounded -Above the red dotted panel in the window and to the left of the bird's wing 8397 on top, 6754 on the bottom, more text further down the arch -Shapes in the clouds between the flower and the left side of the panel I'm really not sure on this one. I initially thought I saw a lion's face with a crown on its head, now what I thought was the crown looks like the silhouette of a circular classical/neoclassical building with a peaked roof set back from it. I also see the same patterns that could be faint writing in some of the other paintings' flat areas, if you could also check and see if those are visible in your copy I would appreciate it? In particular, to the right of the ball on the pillar in the Houston one and to the right of the man's hair in the Montreal one. I'm less sure on these last two, but I think I see something in the snow below the outline of Ohio in the Cleveland one and to the right of the windmill in the Chicago one.
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Jun 18, 2013 02:16
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xie posted:Cambridge Commons, or quite possibly Dawes Island Park, or a small section of land between Dawes Island Park and Harvard Yard, which is named but not on Google Maps (I can see a sign there, one of the "this place has a name" signs in Boston, but it's illegible on Street View). If we need to dig in Harvard I'll see what I can do. I'll probably be around the area much of Friday looking around. If anyone wants to get in buildings/church, etc. we can meet.
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Jun 18, 2013 02:27
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GWBBQ posted:I hope you are. I understand. I should've mentioned urban smurf is from q4t and his theories are um well known there. But you're right its still not productive. I have a good feeling about this site, I honestly think someone will find one .
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Jun 18, 2013 02:29
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Invicta{HOG}, M.D. posted:If we need to dig in Harvard I'll see what I can do. I'd be up for meeting on my lunch hour and poking around, though I can't promise to stay away until Friday. BTW the church looks different from various parts of cambridge common: http://www.flickr.com/photos/sackton/4091289373/ doesn't look like so much, but from the right spot in the Common: http://www.panoramio.com/photo/59302519 They line up almost perfectly with the proportions on the box.
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Jun 18, 2013 02:40
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Yes, I have lots of colorful ideas litterin Q4T. I don't intend to cross post all of it either. I'm trying to say new things whenever I post. I'll post anything here that I think is worth posting. People can shift their attentions as they will, criticism and PM's welcome. Here's some of my thoughts on Boston with a focus on Baseball. For the Charlesgate location, I think I've figured out the idea behind "face the water / your back to to the stairs". I think we've allowed ourselves the inclination to think our heads must always face the opposite direction of our backs. Suppose you're a right handed baseball player at bat. Standing north of the circular depression at Charlegate with a few steps of stairs and just between the globe light and the small rectangular cement pad where once stood a metal walled box, face north so you're back is to the stairs but then turn you're head west towards the CITGO sign like a baseball player watching for the incoming pitch. You're now facing the water as well. 
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Jun 18, 2013 02:41
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I don't get it. Why did you paste a portion of the illustration onto the uh...thing with the baseball on top of it? I can't tell what it's supposed to be matching up with.
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Jun 18, 2013 02:55
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I don't know man, that's pretty out there.
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Jun 18, 2013 03:00
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LargeHadron, it's a rotation on a pattern of cracks to the right of the illustration's stone ring. I thought the two edges of line matched the sidewalk and then a line stemming off from the center connects to what looks like a sideway's T, so I turned it to show it might represent the T of the fence at that spot. The baseball pasted over the globe was for a left-handed hitter...but it's not really important. The perch for the bird looks more like the T.
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Jun 18, 2013 03:03
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Relooking through the hi-res scans, theres so much i missed at first glance. For example, in Charleston this shape seems very out of place the way it breaks borders and is very distinctive. I have no idea what it means, I'm getting a tunnel or a bridge vibe.  Excuse the ancient scroll pad ms paint.
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Jun 18, 2013 03:20
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Urban Smurf posted:baseball interpretation That could be valuable in so far as thinking about the problem creatively, or out of the (Pandora's?  ) box, but it introduces unnecessary complications. The image doesn't really invoke baseball, or any kind of sport. Why require warping the patterns in the image, when the patterns could just match directly to the cracks in the pavement, or whatever? It's not like that kind of clue gives away the answer. You still have to be right there to see it.xie posted:church views The church is a really good match. That's what I've been saying all this time, but I guess I am now realizing that even if we are matching like 90% of the clues in the verse and the image, we still have no idea how to connect them together into some kind of indication of where the final location is. Although the gate discovery might help with that (since it's the last line in the verse).
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Jun 18, 2013 03:22
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GWBBQ posted:I also see the same patterns that could be faint writing in some of the other paintings' flat areas, if you could also check and see if those are visible in your copy I would appreciate it? In particular, to the right of the ball on the pillar in the Houston one and to the right of the man's hair in the Montreal one. Here's the Montreal one that someone earlier in the thread applied some contrast to:  Even with contrast it's really hard to see exactly what's there. I kind of see the kneeling guys in these two reliefs on the Monument Ignace Bourget, but it's just so vague. Depending on your imagination it could probably be "matched" to a lot of things.  
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Jun 18, 2013 03:22
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I like the idea of thinking that face/back may not be opposite directions, but I think it's a way too much of a stretch to match those cracks to that spot considering you're splitting such a small visual element, rotating and moving part of it, and still ending up with only an approximate match. I could buy it if everything else led to that spot and that was the only missing piece of the puzzle you needed to figure out exactly on where to stand, but even then I don't think it's clear enough. I know the "found in a month" statement was hyperbole, but that's the kind of solution that I would expect from someone these days who wanted to make a puzzle as hard as possible and set a time to find it before gloating about outsmarting the Internet.
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Jun 18, 2013 03:28
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Guuse posted:If you look really closely at the top of the real life columns, they aren't perfectly square like in the picture, either. And then the fluting run up the columns. I think that the drawings are meant to be "close enough" so that someone walking by with the picture in hand would recognize them, but that's about it. Yep, that was exactly my point: these are paintings of Polaroids. They are not being painted to be intentionally wrong such that you would have to make a very notable leap of logic to tie the image to the real life thing. They are meant to give you enough detail so you can easily say "ya, that obviously matches" when you see it.
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Jun 18, 2013 03:37
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Cask 9 / MONTREALGuuse posted:Here's the Montreal one that someone earlier in the thread applied some contrast to: What about comparing his hair to the "waves"? 
Merlot Brougham fucked around with this message at 03:47 on Jun 18, 2013 |
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Jun 18, 2013 03:45
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New York City I've been reading this thread since the start and it's really exciting (and also driving me a little crazy!) I don't recall reading, have the Lemontiger solutions been completely discredited? Specifically, I read the New York one and some of it was a stretch but there's not much else to go on yet, eh? I will be in and around NYC (mostly Manhattan) in July and don't mind treasure hunting a little bit. If we have any definite places for a dig site, I'd say it looks a lot less suspicious if 2-3 people are milling around digging ("We're digging for treasure!"  ) versus a lone digger trying to explain about a decades-old riddle and a buried cask that they read about on an internet forum.Anyway. I'll be entirely on foot and don't have a shovel or a camera but... yeah, I guess if there's a meetup I'll bring my brain!  The lemontiger solution proposed the cask was buried near Fort Hamilton High School; If you don't ride the train for whatever reason, there's an IKEA water taxi that's free on the weekends and drops you off five or six miles up the way in Red Hook. I always thought the strange design of the feathers in that eagle's wing looked like a series of piers jutting out into the water.
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Jun 18, 2013 04:02
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Milwaukee I am almost positive I have the "From woman, with harpsichord" thing figured out. I just had an epiphany and need to take some pictures tomorrow. I think it also ties in with the picture with several things. It is pretty amazing if it matches but that will remain to be seen. Stay tuned!
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Jun 18, 2013 04:03
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