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Happy Noodle Boy posted:But it does look like time's running out for this universe. I'm guessing (not spoiling speculation) it'll be a mix of Galactus trying to get back and an incursion occurring between 616 and UU. Galactus gets back along with a few stragglers (Miles?) and the ultimate universe's Earth is destroyed. So Miles escapes, but everyone he's ever known is killed? And what, he just picks himself back up and fights Bong-Man or whatever 60's-leftovers 616 Spider-Man fights regularly? Mister Roboto posted:Isn't it time for the Infinity Gauntlet to appear in the Ultimate universe? It has already appeared. Endless Mike posted:They could, and probably should. Last I checked, it was pretty consistently outselling UXM and Ultimates. I'd be very surprised if there was a significant number reading one or both of those and NOT reading USM. Except there's still a demand for Ultimate on-goings. Wanderer posted:As for Ultimates, I really do get the feeling that it's a testing ground for the movies more than anything else. This statement couldn't be further from the truth. The Avengers films will never, ever do anything that's happened since the relaunch 2 years ago.
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Jun 20, 2013 01:16
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A question about Ultimates today Was turning into the Thing always part of Ben Grimm's new powers? I thought the explanation was that the Thing form was kind of a cocoon shell before changing into his purple form?
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Jun 20, 2013 01:25
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Dacap posted:A question about Ultimates today This is the first time it's been mentioned/shown-off.
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Jun 20, 2013 01:26
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muscles like this? posted:Also apparently "Anthony" Stark (Tony's tumor) was one of the Gems. Aw, gee man, the issue just got into my store today, so that was kind of a spoiler. I know, discussion thread and all, but within 24 hours seems a little hasty.  Anyways, maybe they'll be able to combine the Ultimate Infinity with this Galactus appearance and fix the Ultimate universe. And give it to Bendis.
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Jun 20, 2013 03:35
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thet0wer posted:Except there's still a demand for Ultimate on-goings. Based on what, exactly? There have been two failed relaunches of the line in the past four years. I don't think it's a stretch to say that the line has far outlived its purpose.
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Jun 20, 2013 05:44
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Barry Convex posted:Based on what, exactly? There have been two failed relaunches of the line in the past four years. I don't think it's a stretch to say that the line has far outlived its purpose. I agree. Post-Ultimatum, there's no more X-Men or F4 ongoing and only 1 of those characters (Johnny) was incorporated into an existing title. Post-DOSM, the two non-Spidey books were just bleeding readers every month, even with Jonathan loving Hickman essentially doing an alternate-universe story of an F4 story he was telling in 616 as well at the same time. When Hickman can't sell your book, that probably means there wasn't enough demand there. I still don't like the idea of Miles being incorporated into 616. As others have said, it'll make him Young Teen Hero 213 and probably make him easy cannon fodder.
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Jun 20, 2013 06:09
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If they just had Ultimate Spider-Man and Ultimate Everything Else (have a monthly comic with each arc focusing on a different team/character/plot) I think it would be enough. Putting Miles in the 616 universe would be terrible. He's a special character, and throwing him into the fray where anyone and everyone can and will gently caress with him, or worse, just completely ignore him until he's another Runaway is just killing that. Let Bendis turn Ultimate Spider-Man into his own personal Spider-Man newspaper comic strip, where he just gets to come up with stories until he dies.
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Jun 20, 2013 06:37
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thet0wer posted:Except there's still a demand for Ultimate on-goings. 61 27.57 ULTIMATE COMICS SPIDER-MAN #23 $3.99 MAR 35,581 Not bad. Puts it on level with Wonder Woman, Red Hood, and Teen Titans, three of the original New 52 books. It's a safe level, if nothing else. 109 16.61 ULTIMATE COMICS ULTIMATES #24 $3.99 MAR 21,429 118 15.75 ULTIMATE COMICS X-MEN #26 $3.99 MAR 20,330 Not so good. In between 109 and 118 are such books as X-Factor (canceled, albeit as much for David's health problems as sales), Fearless Avengers (rumored for the chopping block already), and a point issue of Iron Man. At 120 and 121 is two issues Gambit, the higher one selling 19,106, which is canceled. I mean is there demand? Sure, in the absolute sense, there's still people buying them, but they're at the point where Marvel is likely taking a close look at the chopping block, and are likely below the point where only the largest stores are even ordering rack copies of them, making recovery pretty dismal short of a huge superstar creative team or crossover picking things up. (To put this all in perspective, the top book was X-Men #1, featuring an all-female team, which is pretty fantastic, though I sadly have little hope that it'll hold there.)
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Jun 20, 2013 17:32
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For those who care, Hunger livechat with Fialkov and Bendis is happening now. http://marvel.com/news/story/20777/sign_up_for_the_next_big_thing_hunger_liveblog
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Jun 20, 2013 20:08
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Barry Convex posted:For those who care, Hunger livechat with Fialkov and Bendis is happening now. Galactus vs Gah Lak Tus sounds like Godzilla: Final Wars when the Japan Godzilla fought the US Godzilla.
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Jun 20, 2013 20:20
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:Galactus vs Gah Lak Tus sounds like Godzilla: Final Wars when the Japan Godzilla fought the US Godzilla. So you're saying it sounds like the raddest thing ever.
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Jun 20, 2013 20:21
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"There is a lot coming over the next six to eight months in terms of Miles Morales and the concept of a Marvel multiverse, characters realizing that door is there. Miles becomes a very important lynchpin." - Brian Bendis Hmmm. Spider-Men sequel? I wonder if the weird cliffhanger at the end of Spider-Men will figure in?
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Jun 20, 2013 20:28
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Brian Bendis posted:There is a lot coming over the next six to eight months in terms of Miles Morales and the concept of a Marvel multiverse, characters realizing that door is there. Miles becomes a very important lynchpin. Welp.
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Jun 20, 2013 20:29
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This sounds like a pretty awesome story. I was wondering when Rick Jones would pop back up.
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Jun 20, 2013 20:32
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Aaaaand they just said the Ultimate line isn't going anywhere. Thank God.
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Jun 20, 2013 20:35
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:Aaaaand they just said the Ultimate line isn't going anywhere. Thank God. Haha, was that you asking that?
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Jun 20, 2013 20:36
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:Aaaaand they just said the Ultimate line isn't going anywhere. Thank God. Eh, I wouldn't take that as the denial it appears to be, given current sales. "Big plans" is a pretty vague phrase. Will there still be at least one ongoing book set in (whatever's left of) the Ultimate U and/or featuring Ultimate characters? Almost certainly. Will there still be multiple ongoing books set entirely in the Ultimate U? I'd be extremely surprised. Barry Convex fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Jun 20, 2013 |
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Jun 20, 2013 20:44
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:Aaaaand they just said the Ultimate line isn't going anywhere. Thank God. The Ultimate line isn't going anywhere but the big Ultimate event is being billed as a Marvel NOW book and not an Ultimate book... Waterhaul fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Jun 20, 2013 |
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Jun 20, 2013 20:48
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Why is Bendis so great at writing Ultimate line stories and so consistently mediocre to awful as this huge core writer of the 616 stuff? Hunger sounds fantastic.
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Jun 20, 2013 20:50
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Waterhaul posted:The Ultimate lien isn't going anywhere but the big Ultimate event is being billed as a Marvel NOW book and not an Ultimate book... Yeah, that stood out to me too. Predictions: after Hunger, there will be a Miles Morales book that may or may not see a change of universe, and a new Exiles-type book that will feature a couple other Ultimate characters.
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Jun 20, 2013 20:52
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Hanks Lust Cafe posted:Why is Bendis so great at writing Ultimate line stories and so consistently mediocre to awful as this huge core writer of the 616 stuff? Hunger sounds fantastic. Due to Alias, Daredevil, Powers, and Ultimate Spider-man Bendis can do what ever he wants. I also do not mind 80% of his Avengers run. However, the pointless/bad poo poo is pretty unbearable.
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Jun 20, 2013 20:57
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So they didn't deny an Infinite Crisis like effect of dead people coming back due to the universal rifts.
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Jun 20, 2013 21:11
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My questions never get answered All I wanna know is if we'll ever see Ultimate She Hulk again. I know it's not realllllly related but rurggghggh.
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Jun 20, 2013 21:13
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Yeah, there's just way less constraints on what he can do with Miles and the Ultimate U as a whole.
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Jun 20, 2013 21:21
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Endless Mike posted:sales numbers But these numbers don't include digital sales. They only count specialty store sales. Plus there are the hardcover and softcover collections. In any case, the people I'd blame for these numbers would not be those that work at Marvel. It's the so-called "fans", who decided that, after Ultimatum, the line was finished, even as good, quality books were being written by Bendis (Spider-Man, Doomsday), Hickman (Thor, Hawkeye, Ultimates), Ellis (Armor Wars), Aaron (Captain America) and even Millar (Avengers 1+2, New Ultimates vs. Ultimate Avengers). And now we have Wood's excellent X-Men and Fialkov's great-so-far Ultimates. But nope, the line was done, in these people's minds, in 2009, after a bad five issue series killed off a bunch of extraneous X-Men characters and Wolverine, who was extremely similar to his 616 counterpart and therefore one of the worst Ultimizations. But it's not just them. We also have the "NOT MUH SPIDER-MAN" people that wouldn't even give Miles a loving CHANCE. And most of them weren't even racist. They were just so married to the character of Ultimate Peter Parker that they wouldn't read a Spider-Man book without him in it, even thought the same writer was doing it. The other fan I've yet to call out is the ones that got all pissed off when the line changed direction after Ultimatum from a universe consisting of re-told 616 stories to one where "anything can happen". And that was a good move on Marvel's part! The old direction was not sustainable. You can't just re-tell 616 stories forever. Eventually you run out of notable and worthwhile stuff to re-do. And also, people are eventually going to get to tired to just re-treading poo poo they've read before. But some of these people can't see that. If there's one thing I've learned being an Ultimate Comics fan since 2008, it's that comic book fans are extremely stubborn, in a way that's actually detrimental to the industry. thet0wer fucked around with this message at 04:42 on Jun 21, 2013 |
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Jun 21, 2013 04:22
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So your position is their is demand, it just doesn't rest with the fans. Okay. Also its their fault they didn't support a mediocre line just because. Edit: Like you know those canceled series that were mentioned also didn't include digital and TBP sales. CharlestheHammer fucked around with this message at 04:50 on Jun 21, 2013 |
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Jun 21, 2013 04:42
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CharlestheHammer posted:So your position is their is demand, it just doesn't rest with the fans. Okay. Work on your reading comprehension, chief
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Jun 21, 2013 04:53
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thet0wer posted:Work on your reading comprehension, chief I don't understand this. Your post wasn't exactly heavily encoded here.
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Jun 21, 2013 05:01
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CharlestheHammer posted:I don't understand this. Your post wasn't exactly heavily encoded here. It isn't, but you seemed to have difficulty with it. I'm not contradicting myself when I say that there's demand, but also explain why the level of demand isn't as high as it should be. And it's not a "mediocre" line. And the people I described in my post aren't even disputing the quality of the books. Also, yes, I do know those numbers don't include digital sales and tpb's. It says so in the link. Are you just an idiot? thet0wer fucked around with this message at 05:14 on Jun 21, 2013 |
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Jun 21, 2013 05:04
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Come on guys, let's not fight, we're all fans here.thet0wer posted:If there's one thing I've learned being an Ultimate Comics fan since 2008, it's that comic book fans are extremely stubborn, in a way that's actually detrimental to the industry. And this is definitely true. Comicbook fans are all, well, weird that way. Let's just be honest, we're all a bunch of vaguely-asperger's-like goons who care far too much about our cartoon characters. But that's who we are, and it's how we get our entertainment. I hope the ultimate line lasts.
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Jun 21, 2013 08:42
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Change the thread name, please. Ultimate Comics Universe Reborn: Blow it all up, feed it to Galactus For actual discussion, I don't think Ultimatum is the reason the Ultimate line is in the shape it is, because I recall the books that launched immediately after Ultimatum (Armor Wars, Ultimate Avengers) selling fairly well. The biggest problem of the Ultimate Universe is that the 2011 relaunch was disasterous, at a time when Marvel really needed to reignite interest in the brand. Hickman and Ribic were taken off Ultimates mid-way through their first storyline and replaced with Humphries, Loeb's terrible, perpetually delayed Ultimate Comics X was followed immediately by Spencer's incomprehensible run on X-Men, and Spider-Man took forever to get going thanks to Bendis' decompressed storytelling. Marvel screwed up the Ultimate relaunch and two years later, the line lacks any cohesive direction. Outside of the mis-handled crossover between the three books, nothing has any effect on the universe as a whole. It's fine to say that "anything can happen in the Ultimate Universe!" but nothing has consequence outside of its book. The Utopia plot has no consequences outside of X-Men and we know the Dark Ultimates storyline will have no real consequence since Miles is fine in New York a year later. The final nail for the coffin for the Ultimate Universe is that Marvel Now proves it doesn't need to exist any more. You don't need to erase years of continuity to attract new readers, just provide clear jumping-in points. I'd love to see the line continue for as long as possible because the individual books are great as of right now but I'm increasingly aware that there's very little now stopping Marvel blowing the universe up and shutting the line down and I'm not entirely sure that's a bad thing. The line has served its purpose. It modernised the Marvel line back in 2000, got a lot of people into or back into comic books, and 13 years later it might be time for it to be replaced by something else. Whether that's Marvel Now or something entirely different is anyone's guess, but I really think it's time for the Ultimate Universe to die.
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Jun 21, 2013 09:55
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Genetic Toaster posted:Whether that's Marvel Now or something entirely different is anyone's guess, but I really think it's time for the Ultimate Universe to die. The problem with the "replace the UU with a new line" train of thought is :Why wouldn't Marvel end up mishandling it like it mishandled the UU? The same people still work at Marvel. Loeb still works at Marvel.
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Jun 21, 2013 15:37
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thet0wer posted:The problem with the "replace the UU with a new line" train of thought is :Why wouldn't Marvel end up mishandling it like it mishandled the UU? The same people still work at Marvel. Loeb still works at Marvel. I guess because then they can shed the weight of the bad continuity like they did when the launched the UU. The problem of course is that eventually the new universe will have those issues, but whatever. Though it could be that Ulitmatium and the poo poo that followed damaged the line to much, so you could theoretically create a new universe that might not have the same issues. The more likely possibility is that demand isn't high enough so they will just scuttle it and focus on the main U.
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Jun 21, 2013 19:25
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thet0wer posted:But these numbers don't include digital sales. They only count specialty store sales. As for collections, there's been very few cases where sales of collections were enough to buoy an otherwise low-selling book. The Ultimate line *might* have a greater proportion of trade-waiters than the 616 line since the Ultimate stuff is largely self-contained (that is, it doesn't "matter"), but even still, I doubt they're really all that much higher. Conveniently, Diamond gives us sales numbers for collections [urlhttp://www.icv2.com/articles/news/25929.html]as well![/url] Top selling book in May pushed 9,540 copies. The first time and Ultimate book shows up is at #74 selling 1,546 copies. Granted, this doesn't include bookstore sales, but I'd be amazed if Amazon's sales are significantly different than the market as a whole. Of course, none of this matters. Following these statements you went on some rant about fans not wanting to buy Ultimate comics, which contradicts your statement that there's a demand for Ultimate comics. I do hope it sticks around, but I don't really have high hopes. Especially if they're siccing Galactus on it.
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Jun 21, 2013 20:09
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thet0wer posted:The problem with the "replace the UU with a new line" train of thought is :Why wouldn't Marvel end up mishandling it like it mishandled the UU? The same people still work at Marvel. Loeb still works at Marvel. It shouldn't be replaced. The Ultimate line was created, and had its best justification for existing, at a time when the 616 universe seemed increasingly ossified and it could be argued that continuity was a major barrier. Neither of those things is really still the case - well, continuity is still a potential issue, but the best way to approach it is to write with accessibility in mind, not create a new shared universe that will inevitably have its own continuity issues in a few years.
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Jun 21, 2013 20:10
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I wouldn't be surprised if it was scrapped but I'd like to see them continue the books on as alt-u Marvel NOW titles similar to what DC is doing with Earth-2. Things seem to be improving, Wood's salvaging of X-Men is coming to a head and I'm interested in what Fialkov's plans for Ultimates are. If they can keep these three books going with the occasional mini that seems solid to me.
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Jun 22, 2013 02:55
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Calling it now: Ultimate Kang is future Sue Storm.
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Jun 23, 2013 02:32
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Wachter posted:Calling it now: Ultimate Kang is future Sue Storm. Nah, not after that "Reed, you loving SUCK" speech she gave.
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Jun 23, 2013 02:36
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I will say that the ex-sniping between Reed and Susan is a lot more interesting than their usual depiction.
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Jun 23, 2013 02:48
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Aren't Reed and Sue still basically teenagers or have they moved on from the earlier FF runs or ... wheh?
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Jun 23, 2013 16:10
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