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Cream-of-Plenty posted:A lot of people believe, "Oh if you like Doom, you'll love Serious Sam". But to me, that's not very accurate. They're considerably different games. The thing is, Serious Sam is an homage to an older generation of FPS games. You have to remember that the whole "Doom" comparison was popular because the game emerged at a time when drab WW2 shooters were getting really popular. Cover and reloading mechanics, slower movement, realistic environments, and exposition were becoming the standard for FPS games. By comparison, Serious Sam went with bright, colorful environments, ridiculous sci-fi enemies, huge weapons and ammo counts, fast movement and power-ups, a scoring system, tons of secrets, and a threadbare plot that made fun of itself. A lot of these things are qualities of older FPS games. The mistake was calling it a modern Doom game which, arguably, it really isn't. Well don't get me wrong, I like the style and humor of Serious Sam, it's just a lot harder than even most oldschool FPSes. It's like when people call Super Meat Boy "Nintendo Hard" but no NES game was ever really like Super Meat Boy.
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Jun 21, 2013 23:10
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not quite "early", but definitely a part of an older generation - I'm finally playing and loving Painkiller. I've heard that the expansions suck, sadly - can anyone elaborate why they do?
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Jun 22, 2013 07:43
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LvK posted:not quite "early", but definitely a part of an older generation - I'm finally playing and loving Painkiller. I've heard that the expansions suck, sadly - can anyone elaborate why they do?
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Jun 22, 2013 07:50
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LvK posted:not quite "early", but definitely a part of an older generation - I'm finally playing and loving Painkiller. I've heard that the expansions suck, sadly - can anyone elaborate why they do? The first expansion that's part of Black edition (the only one made by the original devs?) is perfectly fine if a little underwhelming. Overdose changes the protagonist to a half angel/half demon who now spews one-liners like all the drat time such as "kiss my shiny half-angel/half-demon rear end." They sort of arbitrarily dicked around with the weapons and the result is worse. The main problem with the other... three, now? expansions, as well as Overdose, is a complete lack of understanding about how to design levels for Painkiller. Stupid tiny/boxy arenas, enemies spawning right on top of you or in generally just dumb places, bad weapon/ammo placement... I think these problems get steadily worse as you get closer to Hell & Damnation. And H&D is just a "HD" remake of the original with something like a third of the original levels, and they didn't even pick out the absolute best 33%. edit: God, what about the bastard child of Painkiller "expansions," Dreamkiller? That thing was just the worst. Sort of a fake "spiritual successor" to PK, was there even any shared devteam going on there? I don't recall. ExMortis fucked around with this message at 07:57 on Jun 22, 2013 |
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Jun 22, 2013 07:52
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Dreamkiller had a fun setting but the gameplay itself looked pretty lackluster, yeah. Shame to hear it's like every other Painkiller expansion/sequel/reboot/whatever.
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Jun 22, 2013 07:59
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Geight posted:Dreamkiller had a fun setting but the gameplay itself looked pretty lackluster, yeah. Shame to hear it's like every other Painkiller expansion/sequel/reboot/whatever. Yeah totally. Painkiller had such a good concept for level themes, Hell as kind of abstract... places out of human suffering... through history? Plus a snowy bridge and a city on water because why not. How do you one up that for variety? Dreams, it's perfect. And then the Dreamkiller demo is just ... shooting giant spiders in, I don't even remember, a warehouse or something. And then you fight a totally unrelated big boss ogre man who you gives absolutely zero feedback on whether he's taking damage or not.
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Jun 22, 2013 08:14
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Isn't Hell and Damnation like, a clip show of the series? Like, it's a sequel, but everybody's locked in the walk-in freezer or something so they talk about the high points of the series (or at least that's the idea)? I haven't heard it's bad, just... unnecessary. and I am surprised at the amount of DLC for it.
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Jun 22, 2013 08:15
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I played Dreamkiller during the free Steam weekend and I couldn't even be bothered to finish it despite how apparently short it is. If I recall every level only has two enemy types and then maybe a boss and...one weapon? I don't quite remember but there was something about the weapons being tied to the stages so you'd end up just shooting this one basic enemy type with one weapon for 20 minutes and then on to the next slog. It might be the worst FPS I'd ever played.
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Jun 22, 2013 12:20
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Necrovision uses the Painkiller engine, I think. It's pretty fun, if not very high quality.
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Jun 22, 2013 14:04
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Gashroom posted:Necrovision uses the Painkiller engine, I think. It's pretty fun, if not very high quality. God knows what they did to it, though. I have honestly never heard my 560ti's fan go as mental as it did playing that game.
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Jun 22, 2013 14:42
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Cream-of-Plenty posted:A lot of people believe, "Oh if you like Doom, you'll love Serious Sam". But to me, that's not very accurate. They're considerably different games. The thing is, Serious Sam is an homage to an older generation of FPS games. You have to remember that the whole "Doom" comparison was popular because the game emerged at a time when drab WW2 shooters were getting really popular. Cover and reloading mechanics, slower movement, realistic environments, and exposition were becoming the standard for FPS games. By comparison, Serious Sam went with bright, colorful environments, ridiculous sci-fi enemies, huge weapons and ammo counts, fast movement and power-ups, a scoring system, tons of secrets, and a threadbare plot that made fun of itself. A lot of these things are qualities of older FPS games. The mistake was calling it a modern Doom game which, arguably, it really isn't. Dunno, I think the most important parts of Serious Sam (1) are that it's fast and also fun. Probably the comparison was made because Doom was also fast and fun, though 'fast' by different standards. A lot of the gameplay of SS consists of furiously backpedaling and kiting hordes of enemies around large arena-like environments. Style aside, since Doom was fundamentally a maze and corridor sort of game, a lot of these things were also just not as easy to execute in the original Doom era due to technical limitations, though you see it occasionally and also more in later third-party wads. On the other hand, I know people like to criticize Call of Duties or whatever, but the later entries in the franchise are significantly more arcadey and honestly aren't as far from the original Doom deathmatch as people think.
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Jun 22, 2013 14:55
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Cream_Filling posted:On the other hand, I know people like to criticize Call of Duties or whatever, but the later entries in the franchise are significantly more arcadey and honestly aren't as far from the original Doom deathmatch as people think. I know what you mean, especially if you're running around killing people while dual-wielding sawn-off shotguns. And CoD is fast as hell. But what makes the difference for me, is that CoD is a twitch-shooter. Its speed comes from the massive power of the hitscan weapons. Often, the winner is whoever sees the other first. You can kill another player in less then a second. At the same time, player movement is slow and you're not jumping all over the place. With Doom/Quake/Unreal etc, it's the other way around. Fights often turn into brawls, because players can take a punch and still keep rolling. For those games, the speed is in the extreme fastness and maneuverability. I think the best example of this difference is the use of explosives. In CoD, a stray granite will kill you and everything around you stone-cold dead. It's frantic, because as soon as you hear a grenade hitting the ground, you'll be scrambling for cover. With something like Quake or Team Fortress (2), a grenade or rocket is still dangerous, but you shouldn't be afraid to use them as a means of propulsion, rocket-jumping and bunny hopping all over the place. This is very much the reason why I love Team Fortress 2, because playing as a scout or soldier really scratches that speed-itch.
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Jun 22, 2013 15:10
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I think a lot of people confuse doom/quake series MP when comparing it to COD or the such, I know i've done it. You really CAN'T take much of a punch in quake games. It's almost all one hit kills unless you're using a full auto gun or can't get a powerup or something. In doom the rockets/SSG/BFG will murder instantly, quake 1 you might take 2 or 3 hits first, quake 2 had the same insta death guns as doom but with railguns added, and quake 3 just refined the formula further. To me COD always felt like q3 minus all the poo poo that makes q3 fun like speed and movement tricks and all of that.
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Jun 22, 2013 17:55
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I went through Quake 1 and 2 this week with some nice HD texture packs. Quake 1 is still great. It's just fun. Secret floaty levels and traps. That ceiling coming down like it's going to crush you got me this time. I'd forgotten about it and panicked but, nope, it harmlessly stops and opens up. This was my first time through Quake 2 on the pc. I'd played it on the playstation but that really, really doesn't count. I'd avoided Quake 2 because I heard it was boring. There was even a Let's Play on these forums that went on about how boring a game it was. This was a good lesson in forming your own opinions because I like it better than Quake 1 now. I have to say though the biggest difference I noticed playing them side by side like this was the difficulty. Quake 2 is super easy compared to the first. I play through the first on the medium difficulty because the hardest is too much for me. Quake 2 I started on medium, stopped because it was a cakewalk, went up to hard and beat it. Started again on nightmare and it's still too easy. I always have more ammo than I'll ever need and armor that never runs out. I hate skipping ammo and health. If I see a certain ammo type like machine gun bullets I'll swap over to the chaingun, use it on two guys, then go running back for it. Then I still have 50 rockets, 60 grenades, and I forgot a had a railgun.
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Jun 22, 2013 19:52
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Energy armor pretty much breaks the game, at least in the original campaign. Ground Zero WILL kick your rear end, though, so if you want a challenge, play that.
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Jun 22, 2013 20:48
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ExMortis posted:How do you one up that for variety? Dreams, it's perfect. There are honestly no words for how much Dreamkiller broke my heart. BROKE MY HEART, I say. The entire game suffers monumentally from the whole "great idea, poor execution" problem, and practically every single part of the game seems great at first glance but then you actually go through it and GAUHSARHKSJGHKAJSHGKJHS The story is an incredible idea. A clinical psychologist, goes insides people's brains! Holy poo poo, incredible! I can loving FIGHT OFF PHOBIAS! Not a grim-gritty gravel-voiced antihero! Not a military alien-fighter whatsit! Someone who genuinely wants to do good and isn't a massive cock! Then you play through the game and aaaaliens are responsible for all bad dreams! And Alice was abused as a child in a mental facility! The weapons are wonderful on paper. A "good vibes" launcher that attracts enemies, spawns flowers and teddy bears, then blows up? A loving SUNLIGHT cannon that "wakes up" bad dreams! Infinite ammo for everything?! Then you play through the game and all the weapons have an "overheat" system where if you hold down the weapon for more than three seconds it works at quarter speed and/or refuses to work at all. Oh and everything except the minigun/shotgun sucks anyway. The levels are wonderful on paper. Because you can use people's phobias as a level, you have practically infinite potential for badass levels that you can seep through. Even if you want to get more out there with the more specific phobias, like apotemnophobia (fear of amputations), you can get a lot of loving crazy enemies like that Painkiller Asylum level with the loving amputated patients that made you go AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.* Instead, we get the most generic phobias leading to the most generic levels. A patient suffering from demonophobia leading to...an ancient medieval castle...where you fight demons. A patient suffering from agoraphobia leading to...a forest. Alice having supernatural powers to augment her guns is a wonderful idea on paper. Anyone ever played Xaser's Psychic? Yeah, that ability would be awesome--primary fire as a gun, secondary fire using whatever power you have equipped. Unfortunately, late in development they threw that out the window and now Alice only has a wimpy pistol and some sort of "psychic running" ability where you can project yourself running and then teleport there, both of which you WILL never ever use ever. Dreamkiller is a wonderful design document that was handled by the completely wrong people.  *: In the original unpatched version of Painkiller, that level never had fighting music. So that screaming, blaring metal? Never popped up. You just had that creepy jingling song playing through the whole area. Instantly made the level 100x more memorable for me.
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Jun 22, 2013 21:24
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Cream_Filling posted:Dunno, I think the most important parts of Serious Sam (1) are that it's fast and also fun. Probably the comparison was made because Doom was also fast and fun, though 'fast' by different standards. I'm sure you're aware that one of the biggest problems with comparing Serious Sam to Doom based on it's "old school FPS" feel is that there's no universal definition for what an old school FPS is. I'm just trying to highlight a lot of the things that old school FPS games had to draw a better parallel, since "fast and fun" are really vague descriptors that could put Serious Sam in the same league as Contra and Mario Kart. In my opinion, there are definitely other reasons why the two games were associated with each other. Cream-of-Plenty fucked around with this message at 21:49 on Jun 22, 2013 |
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Jun 22, 2013 21:47
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NoodleBox posted:I really wish that blood mod makers would get with the drat times and start putting in some bmouse support in their .bat and .cfg files, I hate having to gently caress around with that poo poo for like fifteen minutes to figure why it can't do an extremely basic thing properly drat straight. I want people to see my name every time they play the game so my ego is satisfied 
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Jun 23, 2013 00:45
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A classic FPS is not a classic FPS for me until the bodies don't disappear.   A lovely interest check for Unreal Gold/Unreal-to-UT2004 co-op tomorrow! I'm shooting for 8-9 PM EST, since you're all weird East Coast fuckers.
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Jun 23, 2013 01:52
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I guess you could say I'm near the East Coast  edit: \/\/ wait, what? QwertySanchez fucked around with this message at 11:12 on Jun 23, 2013 |
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Jun 23, 2013 02:00
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I'm QwertySanchez. I'm closer to the East Coast 
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Jun 23, 2013 02:03
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Holy poo poo, is the last boss for Painkiller terrible. The level design is great, but the annoying "slaughter boring rehashes of weak enemies that pose little challenge until you get the honor of fighting Satan, who has to be killed via the worst loving physics system this side of Tresspasser in a really boring game of side-strafe-jump-dodge until rocks come and you try to bat them into him and miss because the physics system is a pile of trash" is seriously going to make me quit straight to Battle Out of Hell.
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Jun 23, 2013 06:30
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JackMackerel posted:Holy poo poo, is the last boss for Painkiller terrible. The level design is great, but the annoying "slaughter boring rehashes of weak enemies that pose little challenge until you get the honor of fighting Satan, who has to be killed via the worst loving physics system this side of Tresspasser in a really boring game of side-strafe-jump-dodge until rocks come and you try to bat them into him and miss because the physics system is a pile of trash" is seriously going to make me quit straight to Battle Out of Hell. He is awful, agreed, but what exactly are you having trouble with? Just line yourself up so that the meteors and himself are directly in your cross-hair and click. Oneshot kill. You don't have to mess about with the physics.
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Jun 23, 2013 06:52
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Anyone played this? It sounds fun, it looks fast enough and i like the art style, but trailers often lie. 
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Jun 23, 2013 13:13
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Shadowmorn posted:Anyone played this? It sounds fun, it looks fast enough and i like the art style, but trailers often lie. It's pretty solid, if currently unpolished and clearly lacking a lot of the planned levels. It's developed by the original guy behind Skulltag, so the guy knows his old-school shooters.
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Jun 23, 2013 13:18
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Been playing through Doom The Way iD with the 2011 soundtrack and Brutal Doom and having a blast. Are there any more decent music replacement packs, or even for sound effects?
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Jun 23, 2013 13:29
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Rather Dashing posted:He is awful, agreed, but what exactly are you having trouble with? Just line yourself up so that the meteors and himself are directly in your cross-hair and click. Oneshot kill. You don't have to mess about with the physics. I do, but the meteors either vaguely flop in his general direction, or don't move at all.
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Jun 24, 2013 02:45
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LvK posted:I remember some 2.5d-style FPS where the enemies all looked like Mega Man Zero robots or something, but I'm really not able to remember what it was called. Gashroom posted:That could be Retro Blazer Oh hey, that looks pretty cool, I hadn't seen that before. Don't forget: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAXA0zDIwJ0 
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Jun 24, 2013 17:21
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Hate to toot my own horn, but I just released an early build of a thing about running and jumping. I'm a terrible, terrible mapper, so any/all criticism about how horrible the maps are would be awesome.
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Jun 24, 2013 18:18
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I know this somewhat outside the remit of the thread but I've got some Steam-credit/points/vouchers/whatever from selling hats or something from TF2 and note that the Fear series is on sale today. Is it any good?
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Jun 25, 2013 11:36
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Rather Dashing posted:I know this somewhat outside the remit of the thread but I've got some Steam-credit/points/vouchers/whatever from selling hats or something from TF2 and note that the Fear series is on sale today. Is it any good? The first FEAR and the first dlc Extraction Point are worth it for sure. Never mind the scary aspect of it, as some people don't find it scary at all, but as a shooter I like it way better than Half-Life 2. It's been awhile but I remember things like slowing time, bicycle kicking dudes, and there being a gun that shoots out rail spikes that pin people to walls. The combat in FEAR is soooo good. You can skip the Perseus Mandate dlc, FEAR 2, and FEAR 3. The first is a classic. The others not so much.
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Jun 25, 2013 12:02
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F3AR's worth a punt if you've got a coop buddy, mind. It's kind of hilarious hearing friends scream like little girls.
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Jun 25, 2013 12:05
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The thing that bothered me most about FEAR is that just the aesthetic and the feel of early weapons and what have you kind of makes it feel like it should be a stealth shooter, but actually accomplishing that is a herculean task. Managed to get through several levels practically undetected, but I started running into more and more spots where it was just impossible and it disheartened me. Probably my fault for not picking up sooner that I was doing something I wasn't intended to, but still. EDIT: Also, since we've been talking about Serious Sam and Painkiller a bit lately, I have to say, am I going to get drawn and quartered for saying I just don't really care for either of them? I was trying to play through Serious Sam HD a while back, and while some of the encounters were fun, any time they locked me in a tiny room and sent millions of enemies against me with no cover, no health and no ammo I wanted to tear my face off. It ceased being fun at all at those moments for me because it was like the worst designed Doom slaughtermap ever. And Painkiller... I'll admit, I like the aesthetic and the weapons were great fun, but... the combat wasn't. All the levels were just a linear series of arena encounters where you get locked in a room and a hundred of the same enemy or two spawn for a few rounds. My problem wasn't so much the same as Serious Sam's arenas... it just got boring after a while. People have tried urging me on by telling me the early levels aren't that great but I just can't seem to go back to it. Chinese Tony Danza fucked around with this message at 15:43 on Jun 25, 2013 |
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Jun 25, 2013 15:38
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What. I've played FEAR possibly more than anyone here and I have no idea what about the game gave the impression of stealth mechanics.
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Jun 25, 2013 15:42
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I dunno, something about the overall aesthetic. The weapons and enemies had sort of a tactical design, the settings were pretty common stealth settings (i.e. warehouses) and the way that enemies were walking about on patrols in ways that took them to secluded areas... I guess I just sort of assumed this combined to form a stealth-capable game? Also I think I had sworn I heard somebody say it was one at some point which didn't help matters much.
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Jun 25, 2013 15:52
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Question about Project MSX, was it multiplayer in the previous beta and/or is it going to be multiplayer in this upcoming one?Chinese Tony Danza posted:EDIT: Also, since we've been talking about Serious Sam and Painkiller a bit lately, I have to say, am I going to get drawn and quartered for saying I just don't really care for either of them? Nope, im in the same boat! Serious Sam's movement is just... too... slow... Serious Sam 2 added a speed boosting pickup, if i could have that on all the time, it would feel right. Painkiller seemed great fun to me, but i had some FPS issue that caused it to go away too high and become unplayable. That killed my interest for that game pretty quick, even 'tho i expect its an easy fix. The slaughterhouse room's never bugged me, because i was playing Serious Sam Co-op, and Painkiller's interest quickly evaporated.
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Jun 25, 2013 16:04
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Chinese Tony Danza posted:I dunno, something about the overall aesthetic. The weapons and enemies had sort of a tactical design, the settings were pretty common stealth settings (i.e. warehouses) and the way that enemies were walking about on patrols in ways that took them to secluded areas... I guess I just sort of assumed this combined to form a stealth-capable game? Also I think I had sworn I heard somebody say it was one at some point which didn't help matters much. At one point it was going to be a squad based game where they investigated different paranormal occurrences which is why at the beginning of the game that whole special forces for ghosts thing is hammered on. Somewhere along the line that got dropped and they instead focused on the stupid Alma poo poo for three games. It was fine in one but I would have rather seen them do something else with the premise.
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Jun 25, 2013 16:07
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quote:Shadow Warrior Classic Redux is coming to Steam with updated visuals, a remixed soundtrack, and both the Wanton Destruction and Twin Dragon expansion packs all for under $10. Well, you guys called it.
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Jun 25, 2013 16:54
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Those whacky ROTT 2013 guys decided to release a bunch of stuff today about the game's music.
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Jun 25, 2013 17:29
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Did I see some maps that looked like a portal spoof in that production diary video?
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Jun 25, 2013 18:11
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