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I recall something about a FFVII retranslation popping up in the FFVII LP - and it was the perfect example of somebody wanting to have their cake, and eat it too - keeping it "true" to the Japanese version by reverting some of the name changes (Elena > Yrena, Reno > Leno  ), but arbitrarily keeping a term like "Omnislash" (the wikia translates the original Japanese name to "Super Ultimate War God's Supreme Slash") because that's what they were used to or something.
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Jun 23, 2013 18:03
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Pasteurized Milk posted:When it comes to spell names, I feel like I was never as confused as when they decided to rename all the Dragon Quest spells. If you mean for the translation, it makes perfect sense. The Japanese DQ spells are onomatopoeia and so the English version retranslates them as more English onomatopoeia. Pesky Splinter posted:I recall something about a FFVII retranslation popping up in the FFVII LP - and it was the perfect example of somebody wanting to have their cake, and eat it too - keeping it "true" to the Japanese version by reverting some of the name changes (Elena > Yrena, Reno > Leno Yeah, that is pretty much what I was expecting from a fan translation. More slavish devotion to obscure romanization than anything else. That said, that isn't necessarily wrong. Elena's Japanese name is イリーナ as opposed to エリナ. So there's a very legitimate argument made to use Irina or Yrena instead of Elena, both of which are actual real-person names. (Irena is the one I'd go for but Yrena is the one they've used in certain official materials apparently.) Reno -> Leno is probably a similar thing but... man, everyone knows about the Japanese L/R thing. Leno probably isn't necessarily incorrect but they'd probably be better off going with the one used in the original translation unless there's more backing it up. As far as Omnislash, I'd keep it as Omnislash myself. Just beyond the fact that getting the English version of the name to fit in a dialogue box is probably impossible, Omnislash conveys basically the same thing but sounds better. The dialog box thing would probably be the more pressing concern though. The original FFVII translator mentioned they had an insanely strict letter limit. Even some of Barret's slang terms were used to cut down on the number of letters in a line. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 18:18 on Jun 23, 2013 |
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Jun 23, 2013 18:07
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ImpAtom posted:Even some of Barret's slang terms were used to cut down on the number of letters in a line. You mean Barret wasn't supposed to be a Mr. T clone after all? My childhood is filled with lies. 
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Jun 23, 2013 18:25
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They already got Aeris to change her official name, if they changed everyone else's name, then it would still be inconsistent. Even the Final Fantasy VI Advance translation made fun of this sort of thinking, by referencing a cult of people who only refer to Kefka as Cefca.
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Jun 23, 2013 18:32
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ImpAtom posted:Yeah, that is pretty much what I was expecting from a fan translation. More slavish devotion to obscure romanization than anything else. From what I remember reading of some of the choices made, it was pretty much that - bits of it seemed less like a translation, than just a slight rephrase (well, that's obviously a part of translation, but you know what I'm getting at  ), while the translator bitched at other peoples' interpretation of whatever line it was.
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Jun 23, 2013 18:46
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If you're going to change Reno to Leno, then you have to change Rude to Lude, which sounds daft. Otherwise you lose the alliteration.
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Jun 23, 2013 18:46
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Pesky Splinter posted:(the wikia translates the original Japanese name to "Super Ultimate War God's Supreme Slash") That's way too awesome. I wish I had played that game.
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Jun 23, 2013 18:53
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When it comes to the Dragon Quest thing, I got that it was a translation thing. I just found the change from blaze to frizz more confusing than fire 2 to fira.
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Jun 23, 2013 19:01
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That loving Sned posted:They already got Aeris to change her official name, if they changed everyone else's name, then it would still be inconsistent. Even the Final Fantasy VI Advance translation made fun of this sort of thinking, by referencing a cult of people who only refer to Kefka as Cefca. So is it Aeris officially? I always felt like an idiot using Aerith as if I had a lisp.
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Jun 23, 2013 19:31
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They just need to do something like colour-code the spells so you can remember what elements they correspond to. It also just takes a bit of getting used to, since the DQ games that use the new translation are VIII, IV, V, VI, IX and the Monsters Joker games, so after playing through one of those, then you shouldn't have a problem with the rest.Corn Thongs posted:So is it Aeris officially? I always felt like an idiot using Aerith as if I had a lisp. It's now Aerith. That's what she's been called in most of her appearances, like the Kingdom Hearts games and the Dissidia series. I don't like it either, but SE seems to listen to any dumb thing their obsessive fans request nowadays. That Fucking Sned fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Jun 23, 2013 |
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Jun 23, 2013 19:33
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Corn Thongs posted:So is it Aeris officially? I always felt like an idiot using Aerith as if I had a lisp. It's Aerith now. At least they used that name in Kingdom Hearts and the movie.
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Jun 23, 2013 19:34
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Corn Thongs posted:So is it Aeris officially? I always felt like an idiot using Aerith as if I had a lisp. It's Aerith. The reasoning why is that her name is supposed to be based off the English word "Earth" (to contrast with Cloud.) It's literally just the English word "Earth" converted into a name, that's the entire source of it.  You're not supposed to pronounce it like Aeri-th but more like Ear-th. This was a case where Square-Enix changed it because it was a direct mistranslation as opposed to a legitimate name change. If it had been a case where the translator had intentionally changed the name (as with Tina to Terra) they'd probably have retained it, but it was a case where the translator made a mistake. You can read it either way and without context both are arguably correct, but with context there's only one that makes sense as a translation. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 19:51 on Jun 23, 2013 |
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Jun 23, 2013 19:40
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Sowhat was wrong with FFVIII's translation? I also played that somewhat recently and I don't recall any weird random lines or out of character dialogue. So few of the characters have actual character that it's pretty easy to be consistent I guess. I do recall hearing that Zell's hotdog fixation was something else originally.... And I wonder what chicken-wuss is in Japanese.
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Jun 23, 2013 19:58
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NikkolasKing posted:Sowhat was wrong with FFVIII's translation? I also played that somewhat recently and I don't recall any weird random lines or out of character dialogue. So few of the characters have actual character that it's pretty easy to be consistent I guess. He actually was still calling him chicken-wuss. Or rather "Chikin Yarou." That is a completely accurate translation. You could arguably go for something like chicken-poo poo but it isn't necessary. Zell's thing in the Japanese version was just bread instead of hot dogs. You see him choking on it in the ending sequence actually. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Jun 23, 2013 |
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Jun 23, 2013 20:06
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NikkolasKing posted:Sowhat was wrong with FFVIII's translation? I also played that somewhat recently and I don't recall any weird random lines or out of character dialogue. So few of the characters have actual character that it's pretty easy to be consistent I guess. Zell was obsessed with flavoured bread in the original version. You can kinda see the bread in the ending cinematic. Seifer's original insult was "Chikin Yarou" (チキン野郎), which roughly means the same thing, if slightly cruder.
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Jun 23, 2013 20:07
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From what I recall, the biggest translation foible in FF8 was Edea's speech near the end of disc 1, though probably the one that trips people up the most is Ultimecia's introduction of Griever. I don't recall the exact details of either, though, other than that the latter is a lot more clear in Japanese about the whole thing with making Squall fight the incarnation of his imagery of strength (as opposed to "I'm pulling a GF out of my rear end which just so happens to be named after your ring, fancy that" which is how it comes across in English).
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Jun 23, 2013 22:51
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Well that certainly would have helped quash the Rinoa = Ultimecia stuff. Although it's honestly not a bad theory. I'd take it over Squall Is Dead at the very least. The problem is that the whole Sorceress dying thing is kinda vague. The game seems to really imply that Sorceresses absolutely cannot die unless they pass on their powers. This is why Adel was searching for an heir for such a long time and why they had to send her into space. They couldn't kill her because she just wouldn't die unless she passed on her powerrs. Hell, Ultimecia had to time travel before she could die as there was no one else around to give her powers to in her own time. I thus always kinda concluded Rinoa or any other Sorceress could live forever, even if they weren't in peak condition the whole time.
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Jun 24, 2013 02:32
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That would mean Rinoa got her powers from Edea, who got her powers from Ultimecia, who's actually Rinoa who got her powers from Edea...  she's caught in the time loop forever, poor girl.
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Jun 24, 2013 02:42
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NikkolasKing posted:Well that certainly would have helped quash the Rinoa = Ultimecia stuff. Although it's honestly not a bad theory. I'd take it over Squall Is Dead at the very least.  you figured it out"
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Jun 24, 2013 03:11
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FVIII's plot needs all the help it can get so you'ee not an idiot. You're just trying to salvage a shitload of wasted potential. I think I hate VIII so much because it could have been a lot better than it was if there had only been a modicum of effort or competency put into character development and plot progression.
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Jun 24, 2013 03:32
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NikkolasKing posted:FVIII's plot needs all the help it can get so you'ee not an idiot. You're just trying to salvage a shitload of wasted potential. I think I hate VIII so much because it could have been a lot better than it was if there had only been a modicum of effort or competency put into character development and plot progression.
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Jun 24, 2013 03:41
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The White Dragon posted:There was a ton of effort put into character development. The problem is that it all goes to the one guy you don't give two shits about. ... Whatever.
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Jun 24, 2013 03:47
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zerox147o posted:... Whatever. (...) Seriously, that above mark loses all meaning when you start inserting it in every other loving sentence.
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Jun 24, 2013 03:50
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Just remember that ellipses indicate flatulence. Jesus christ somebody get Squall some pepto
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Jun 24, 2013 03:53
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I want a retranslation of FF7 simply so I can know what the hell the conversation at Wall Market is actually supposed to mean. "Hmm...so that's how you fooled them." "Hmm...so that's how you'll fool them." I still have no clue what this is supposed to mean.
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Jun 24, 2013 05:25
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Twelve by Pies posted:I want a retranslation of FF7 simply so I can know what the hell the conversation at Wall Market is actually supposed to mean. That conversation, if I recall correct, is basically Cloud making some excuse to go into the club and Aerith going "Huh, so that's how your fooling yourself." Basically her teasing him that all he really wants to do is go inside the strip club. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 05:31 on Jun 24, 2013 |
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Jun 24, 2013 05:27
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Pesky Splinter posted:I recall something about a FFVII retranslation popping up in the FFVII LP - and it was the perfect example of somebody wanting to have their cake, and eat it too - keeping it "true" to the Japanese version by reverting some of the name changes (Elena > Yrena, Reno > Leno That's too bad. I was never really happy with the literalistic fan translations of v and vi. But at least, if they release a super-faithful translation, it could be edited into something that doesn't read like a super-accurate machine translation while still being faithful to the original script.
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Jun 24, 2013 05:36
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I'm a Japanese speaker and translator myself so I'm really grateful for all the cool localization chat! Localization is a tough cookie, and I feel like you're never going to please everybody. (That said, literalists are the worst IMHO.) (And as for retaining honorifics, I say almost never, though I can forgive Persona 4 for reasons stated before). I'm still not very far into 12--pretty much just about to head back to the underground after charging up the sunstone--because I'm still trying to get a feel for the whole system, hanging out and killing stuff in the desert. Before this, the newest FF I had played and completed is 9, so this MMO-style (or so I am assuming; I have never really played an MMORPG) is kind of confusing. I also don't have that many skills yet, as I have Van as a monk and Panelo as an Uhlan. The fact that I can't change the behavior of the right stick is really annoying but I guess I'll have to live with it. If anyone has any tips or stuff-to-watch-out-for for a total newbie in regards to 12, I'd love to hear it. The first main town is kind of overwhelming too, though I suppose that's what they were going for. Granted this is my first time through, but everything I have heard about 12 seems to lament the fact that Basch was supposed to be the main character but he didn't test well so they shoehorned in Van at the last minute. I don't know if that's from an interview or something or if it's just speculation, but in any case, I can think of many examples in fiction where all the action is merely observed by a passive narrator or point-of-view. Again, have not really gotten into the meat of anything, but that sounds kinda neat to me. Anyway, so far so good, but again, sure feels like Star Wars! And in regards to 7 chat, I completed a 2nd playthrough recently (1st was in high school) and I found the narrative pacing kinda slow and I even remember when it came out not liking how long action/spell animations were. Also I finally understood various characters' motivations for things. It really lends credence to the idea that die-hard supporters of it are remembering it 'incorrectly', or rather, are remembering an idealized version of their experience with it, which is fine, and that the extended universe exists to cater to that is pretty lucky. It's by no means a bad game but I put it rather low on my personal ranking. Oh, and even though I loved 8 as-is, the 'fan theory' re: Rinoa actually strikes me as really interesting and I also kinda wish it was true. (I do understand it has narrative problems as people said.) I don't know the basics of 'Squall is dead' but that sounds really dumb, even by Square standards if it were true. I liked Quistis in the beginning, but after her scene on the balcony at the party, they really don't deal with her (or anyone else) again, which is a bummer. I tend to like to play longer, dialogue-or-text-heavy games in English if I can get my hands on them easily, but after what ImpAtom and others have said about the job they did with 13, I might have to play it in Japanese instead.
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Jun 24, 2013 05:40
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Remember Squall taking that icicle to the chest at the end of disc 1? That magic icicle? Well magic healing isn't up to par and yeah, Squall didn't make it. If you have the free time, find the page and read the whole theory. Kinda fun but admittedly retarded.
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Jun 24, 2013 05:46
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I personally subscribe to the Serah is Dead theory. Everything after she turned to crystal is just the product of her dying mind. But man, all this talk of shoddy translations not allowing you to really experience the game and I didn't once think of Xenogears. If ever a game deserved a retranslationm that is the one. The fanbase is more than dedicated enough to do it too. I think the only thing preventing that wonderful day from coming to pass is a lack of coordination and technical know-how. It's one thing to translate Japanese to English like with Perfect Works but I'm sure it's quite another to do that and then insert it into a PSX game. They did it for the first Persona 2 game though.... I haven't played it but it's still a JRPG so I'm sure it's heavy on text.
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Jun 24, 2013 06:00
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NikkolasKing posted:I personally subscribe to the Serah is Dead theory. Everything after she turned to crystal is just the product of her dying mind. Xenogears, to be honest, is more a game that needs a better editor than a retranslation. It was an insane game to translate and it's kind of a miracle that it came out as well as it did. It literally was the game that got Squaresoft to start hiring editors to check over the translator's work but even then it was insane. They literally taught the translator how to create QA builds and master the game themselves because they had no staff to spare to do it.
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Jun 24, 2013 06:16
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Xenogears needs to be finished before it's retranslated.
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Jun 24, 2013 06:16
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Pyroxene Stigma posted:Remember Squall taking that icicle to the chest at the end of disc 1? That magic icicle? Well magic healing isn't up to par and yeah, Squall didn't make it. If you have the free time, find the page and read the whole theory. Kinda fun but admittedly retarded. It's also more interesting than the entire FF8 plotline.
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Jun 24, 2013 07:33
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Elec posted:I'm still not very far into 12--pretty much just about to head back to the underground after charging up the sunstone--because I'm still trying to get a feel for the whole system, hanging out and killing stuff in the desert. Before this, the newest FF I had played and completed is 9, so this MMO-style (or so I am assuming; I have never really played an MMORPG) is kind of confusing. I also don't have that many skills yet, as I have Van as a monk and Panelo as an Uhlan. The fact that I can't change the behavior of the right stick is really annoying but I guess I'll have to live with it. If anyone has any tips or stuff-to-watch-out-for for a total newbie in regards to 12, I'd love to hear it. The first main town is kind of overwhelming too, though I suppose that's what they were going for. When you progress a little bit further, you get access to "Gambits," which are basically If->Then statements you can use to set up automated routines for your team. Those are the real meat of the gameplay. And yeah, it plays differently from other games in the series, and sometimes takes a while to click with people (if ever). As for advice, just explore - there are a lot of guaranteed chests with nice equipment or the only way to get certain spells, so it pays to look around. Save often, because the game will sometimes have enemies around that can eat you for breakfast. I don't know where all the speculation about Vaan comes from, and I've heard both that Basch was supposed to be the "main character," or that it was supposed to be another character you'll meet soon. But it's clear that the real main character of the story is none of those people, but yet another character you'll get. Vaan is definitely a perspective character- there to follow around the real central characters and ask dumb questions for the audience's benefit.
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Jun 24, 2013 08:07
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Actually I'm playing through FF12 for the first time since it came out. Any tips for getting through the Tunnels after the prison? The Battery Mimics drain poo poo so fast I'm up to my nose in souped up undead.
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Jun 24, 2013 08:18
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The White Dragon posted:There was a ton of effort put into character development. The problem is that it all goes to the one guy you don't give two shits about. For all the flaws FF8 has, I will say this one thing about its character development - their one-dimensional characters are really good at making first impressions. The party sans Squall get barely any development past the first third of Disc 2, but they're instantly memorable - even annoyingly so. Zell? Trigger-mouth and a stickler for rules. Quistis? Tries to be professional but emotions. Also fulfiller of librarian dominatrix fantasies since '99. Irvine? Flirt. Selphie? Crazy. Even Rinoa, bless her terrible character, is so polarizing that you either love her or hate her. Would I have liked it if they were developed into more nuanced, three-dimensional characters? Undoubtedly. But when you stop pretending they're actual characters and more of an exaggerated characteristic, it's almost impressive how they stick around after losing all plot relevance after the first quarter of the game. Compared to some of Square's later efforts, like Lulu. ZenMasterBullshit posted:Actually I'm playing through FF12 for the first time since it came out. Any tips for getting through the Tunnels after the prison? The Battery Mimics drain poo poo so fast I'm up to my nose in souped up undead. Blizzard is your best friend (it's possible only Fran has it right now, but that's enough), since the Battery Mimics are weak to Ice. Whenever you enter a new area, just beeline for the Mimics - you can double back and take care of the rest if needed. ApplesandOranges fucked around with this message at 08:45 on Jun 24, 2013 |
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Jun 24, 2013 08:39
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Krad posted:You mean Barret wasn't supposed to be a Mr. T clone after all? I know those feels. If i ever decided to get a tattoo of him everyone would be like drat why do you have Mr T tattooed to your arm?
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Jun 24, 2013 11:22
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Kingdom Hearts is the dying dream of a Disney-loving boy as his crappy raft sinks into the ocean.
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Jun 24, 2013 11:30
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Pyroxene Stigma posted:Remember Squall taking that icicle to the chest at the end of disc 1? That magic icicle? Well magic healing isn't up to par and yeah, Squall didn't make it. If you have the free time, find the page and read the whole theory. Kinda fun but admittedly retarded. I can't really get behind the idea that Squall is dead, though it does explain things become INSANELY weird after that point, aside from mention of the Shumi and T-Rexaurs. I'm surprised there's no theory that Squall is Ultimecia... somehow. I mean, I don't believe it personally and I'm kinda grasping, but they both enjoy isolation, both somehow know of Griever, and at the end of the final boss fight, Ultimecia starts abusing the hell out of ellipsis.
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Jun 24, 2013 12:13
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Schwartzcough posted:I don't know where all the speculation about Vaan comes from, and I've heard both that Basch was supposed to be the "main character," or that it was supposed to be another character you'll meet soon. But it's clear that the real main character of the story is none of those people, but yet another character you'll get. Vaan is definitely a perspective character- there to follow around the real central characters and ask dumb questions for the audience's benefit. Basch was the main character in the original design, but that game was nothing like the finished article. The idea was to make a full numbered FF game with gameplay more akin to Vagrant Story - the whole thing taking place in what amounted to a massive dungeon. Obviously this was dropped in what was pretty much a U-turn; instead they decided to make the most "open world" FF to date (not counting FFXI). Much of the inspiration for this was from FFXI, and the main character was dropped at the time in favour of taking a MMO-like "avatar" approach - a mute character who acts as a player proxy to witness events rather than take part in them. This approach to the main character was, in turn, dropped - but the male and female avatar designs were retained in the form of Vaan and Penelo. You can clearly see the original intentions of their characters in their roles in the story, though. The final product is more of an ensemble cast than any particular main character, imo.
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