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Factory Factory posted:I've got a hell of an underclock. No. Your processor is actually unprocessing stuff. Or travelling back in time...
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Jun 25, 2013 00:12
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Now that you mention it, my fans do seem to be spinning backwards.
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Jun 25, 2013 00:14
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Factory Factory posted:Now that you mention it, my fans do seem to be spinning backwards. That's just an illusion from them spinning so fast. You see, it's an integer overflow glitch. Your BCLK is actually set at 6488.1 MHz, but it displays incorrectly.
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Jun 25, 2013 00:37
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Factory Factory posted:Now that you mention it, my fans do seem to be spinning backwards. So is it producing negative heat? Can you cool beer in some kind of cooling loop?
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Jun 25, 2013 01:42
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I just took my first baby steps into the world of overclocking. On the advice of this guide, I started by setting my i5-4670K to 4.6GHz at 1.25V to see if it would even boot. To my surprise, not only did it boot but I ran AIDA64's stability test for 45 minutes with no crashes. I'm getting average temperatures around 60C, with occasional spikes as high as 75C. IntelBurnTest is pushing it higher, with averages around 74C and highs at 89 on Standard, and 85/94 on Maximum. Does that sound like a safe 24/7 OC for gaming? Do I have some headroom to push it even farther or should I be happy I got this high in the first place? I've heard 4.6GHz is pretty high for Haswell.
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Jun 27, 2013 06:26
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It's not average temperature you should be worried about, but the maximum. And 89 degrees in IBT is too drat hot. If you watch the current temperature, I guarantee that it will be sitting at or near maximum after the first minute or so of the test, and it will stay there until the test is done. Plus that isn't a guaranteed-stable level of testing. 5/10 passes of IBT on Standard is a really good test, but you still need a good 24 hours of Prime95 to make sure. If Prime95 hits 72C and no higher, then it's good. Otherwise, do some backing off. E: Reading the guide more, you aren't supposed to just LEAVE it at 1.25V. That's to figure out the chip's ability to clock up. Afterwards, you need to work with Offset voltage (or one of the other Haswell modes). Otherwise, your chip will be running at 1.25V all the time, and that'll screw up your idle power usage. The reason why I'm not sold on AIDA is that when [H] tested with it, they got AIDA-stable overclocks that would immediately crash in 3DMark or other benchmarks. That guide is written from the "HELL YEAH LET'S CLOCK IT" philosophy, not the "push it hard but let it rest easy" way I wrote for the OP. Factory Factory fucked around with this message at 06:49 on Jun 27, 2013 |
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Jun 27, 2013 06:43
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So just to make sure I understand this right, my next steps should be 1. Find the offset voltage that gives me 1.25V under load (by going back to stock clocks and testing different offsets) 2. Lowering the offset until it crashes at 4.6GHz 3. Lowering the clock until it stops crashing 4. Repeat until I find the point where Prime95 maxes at 72C Is that basically right? Edit: Just out of curiosity, why is an 89C IBT unsafe if gaming never takes the CPU above 40-50C? Thoom fucked around with this message at 07:02 on Jun 27, 2013 |
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Jun 27, 2013 06:53
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Pretty much, yeah. You may find that the Vcore wanders slightly as your core clocks change, either because the BIOS is helping out or from different Vdroop.
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Jun 27, 2013 07:04
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There must be something my motherboard (ASUS Z87 Gryphon) is doing that I don't understand, because the voltage seems to vary heavily with the multiplier at a given offset. I set the offset to +0.074 at 3.4GHz, and that gave me roughly 1.25V under load (and as low as 0.100V idle). Now I've got the offset at +0.070 at 4.5GHz and the voltage is topping at 1.344V. Is there some mobo feature I could/should be turning off, or should I just keep lowering the offset until I get a crash?
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Jun 27, 2013 07:29
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If the EPU is on, switch it off. You'll also want to change the DIGI+ VRM settings from Standard phase control to Optimized. Otherwise, this is what I was referring to about the motherboard "helping" the Vcore. As long as you aren't going negative, just lower your Offset.
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Jun 27, 2013 07:31
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Just a word on stability testing: I was pretty excited to find that I could run stress tests to my heart's delight at 4770k 4.2ghz @ 1.12 volts (the MB delivers more under load). However, when ever I tried to reboot the system I got a BSOD. Hours of Prime95 et. al., no problems. Shutting down Windows 7 taxes something that was less than pleased, however. This was the first BSOD that has made me laugh. As this chip gets hot in a hurry and my cooling setup will blow my cat into a wall/suck her into the case if she errs too close, I'm trying to keep the voltage and thus heat to a minimum. Video or batch photo processing won't get to Prime95 heat, but it will get them turbines going.
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Jun 27, 2013 08:04
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Ok, made those adjustments. Looks like my chip isn't quite the overclocking casanova I thought it was  . At 4.2GHz and no offset, it's still occasionally overshooting 72C in Prime95 small FFTs by a few degrees, so I guess I'll keep lowering the clock until I find the magic number.Thanks for preventing me from blowing up my computer.
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Jun 27, 2013 08:07
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Ahhh, if it's just a few degrees, let it run. It's a really good sign that you got it to 4.6 GHz at all, though. If you ever want to delid the chip and/or stick on SUPER-beefy cooling, you could really make it sing.
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Jun 27, 2013 08:08
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I'm already running a Swiftech H220, and the prospect of delidding terrifies me, so I think I'll let it sit at 4.2. Maybe when it's time for my Skylake upgrade I'll delid this one for practice.
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Jun 27, 2013 08:11
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This is an interesting development. Apparently ASRock has figured out how to overclock K-series Haswell CPUs on B85 and H87 mobos. I didn't notice any manual settings for the overclock though. I wonder if there will be any developments for non-k CPUs, like setting them to the max turbo bin as you could for SNB and IVB.
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Jun 27, 2013 17:01
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unpronounceable posted:This is an interesting development. Apparently ASRock has figured out how to overclock K-series Haswell CPUs on B85 and H87 mobos. I didn't notice any manual settings for the overclock though. I wonder if there will be any developments for non-k CPUs, like setting them to the max turbo bin as you could for SNB and IVB. This seems like something Intel might want to squash. And it is within their power to do so, a chipset revision to fix whatever loop-hole ASRock has figured out and we're right back to original market segmentation. In the meantime though, loving good on them for pushing the envelope and doing something unexpected. It's not nearly common enough anymore for motherboard makers to get tricky and find ways of doing things that are outside the rules set up by Intel, ASRock seems like they're both pretty damned clever and pretty damned plucky for figuring out some means to bypass the non-Z lockout. Rock on, ASRock 
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Jun 27, 2013 17:20
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So this might be slightly out of place here but I have a overclocking related question. I've been running a mild overclock on my i5 750 for a bit longer than 3 years now. Basically 3.4 ghz on a hyper 212 cooler, never hit high temps, cool room, nothing stressful. I'm set to upgrade to Haswell and a buddy has expressed interest in my old parts. Can I sell him (obviously hefty discount) the chip and motherboard in good conscience? I don't want to sell him short or have it explode in a month.
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Jul 2, 2013 00:56
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Stew Man Chew posted:So this might be slightly out of place here but I have a overclocking related question. Unless you've been feeding it 1.5V+ for 3 years it should be fine to re-sell. future ghost fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Jul 2, 2013 |
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Jul 2, 2013 16:18
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Stew Man Chew posted:So this might be slightly out of place here but I have a overclocking related question. How far out of normal voltage did you have to run it? If it wasn't too far from nominal, I'd sell it in plenty good conscience, no reason to expect it to die noticeably sooner than any other processor. Remember that Intel's 24/7 numbers are no-poo poo intended for what the chips are capable of being run at 100% 24/7 (e.g. in a server rack, or if you were devoting all of your free cycles to Folding@home), so if your clock cycles haven't been that level of usage, other stuff is almost certainly going to croak before the CPU regardless. They're hardy. On to my own OC thing... I am thinking that with the new and improved airflow I may be able to run 4.8GHz on the processor, for a "oooh that's nice" showier overclock. IBT below Very High has trouble getting my processor over 72ºC now, and that's with the side fan dead but left mounted, slightly impeding and certainly not helping airflow. Once I get it moved up to the Spectre Pro, think things should be amenable to a change. And my vcore is close to 1.4V anyway, if I can get it to 1.4V I have zero problem running that as I've got that "overclockers' special warranty" thing for a no-questions-asked replacement officially. Does Intel still sell that, or was I part of a pilot program that didn't become a bigger thing? One thing I will do is replace the front and middle NF-P12/P14 fans on the NH-D14 with their re-engineered counterparts, though. Those NF-F12/A15 are awesome fans by any measure and the NF-F12 in particular is a spectacular engineering achievement, specifically designed to put a lot of static pressure through a heat sink or a radiator and excelling in that role to the extent of several degrees cooler at the same inaudible noise level - and only that role. It makes a mediocre case fan and works very poorly as a pull fan in a push/pull (or push/pull/pull, as it were) setup. The NF-P12 remains the best third pull fan in the lineup, though, no benefit at all to replacing it with anything else, especially with the kickass Prolimatech PRO-USV14 working right along with it to pull the column and exhaust it. Could not be happier with that case fan, seriously, if you've got a 120mm mounting hole and you need a fan that is silent, long-lived, and moves about 100CFM, check that bad motherfucker out. I think if I give the cooler these last little tweaks, finish the airflow setup with the Spectre Pro coming in today, and maybe remount it to ensure best possible contact, I can get an extra 100MHz/core at roughly 1.4V. Tribute to the power of air cooling that it's just .004v away from that already and Linpack can't get it past 72ºC, I think. Water cooling may be able to brute force its way to better gross performance, but this remains an extremely high-performance cooler and it seems to have just enough room to improve yet that I might be able to squeeze the 48x multiplier out of it that I've wanted ever since I put the system together. I might also see about bumping up the BCLK from 100.00MHz to 103-104MHz, which might not cause instability if I'm careful, and would get me drat near 5GHz.  I dunno, though, We'll see how the attempt at 48X goes before shooting for the moon.
Agreed fucked around with this message at 16:31 on Jul 2, 2013 |
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Jul 2, 2013 16:24
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It looks like the Intel Performance Tuning Protection Plan is still kicking, with entries for the 4770K and 4670K. Based on that, I say pump ten volts through it and clock to the sky  Or, you know, analyze the situation soberly and balance risk with reward. You're well out of the realm of conservativism here, but sanity still has its tenuous grasp.
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Jul 2, 2013 21:44
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Factory Factory posted:It looks like the Intel Performance Tuning Protection Plan is still kicking, with entries for the 4770K and 4670K. Oh so tenuous. I mean poo poo they'd probably send me a 2700K as a replacement since they retired the 2600K but I dunno, it's not like this is a one in a million chip to begin with - it has done well as far as not walling out at the multiplier but it runs kinda hot and takes some real voltage to get where it's going, compared to the really high percentile chips. It's a good one and if I melt it I will be very sorry, but it's not top tier. I'm some kind of awful miser because I don't run F@H so a solid amount of my processor cycles are just the idle loop process, and it'd be pretty neat to have it running at or near 5GHz just for the fun of it fully stable once I get the final touches put on my cooling setup (final? well, I did start in June of 2011, not my fault Noctua takes their time making better fans  ).Sandy Bridge: On air, no delidding required, rock and loving ROLL 
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Jul 2, 2013 21:59
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Well, the difference in performance between the Bitfenix Spectre Pro and the Xigmatek XLF 200mm fans is absolutely nuts. Right at twice as much airflow, and now I have a nice, balanced intake vs. output, nudged slightly in the negative pressure direction but with magnetic DEMCiflex filtering to prevent dust build-up. Dropped temps across the board by a whole hell of a lot. My GTX 780 is idling at 22ºC. Woah. Balance and making the air go where you want it is the key, and the tricky part, and the rewarding part. Case fans are done now, I think. Final profile is all fans operating at full voltage, still inaudible since I'm only using one high-CFM 200mm fan (if I had three Bitfenix Spectre Pros, I imagine I could hear them - that's where the Xigmateks are better, but with roughly half the airflow, they damned well ought to be inaudible by comparison). The side Xigmatek failing is a bit of a blessing in disguise as it made me reconsider my options and this is clearly a better choice for the side fan and sole intake. The rest of the fans can split the air it brings in, it supplies plenty of fresh cool air to everything and when that air becomes hot it can leave the case. It may sound odd to have a front exhaust, since you wouldn't think air would work that way, but there's a reason. I've got two graphics cards which both exhaust inside the case and to their back ends, which, with the addition of cool air underneath them and the removal of the top HDD cage, plus the airflow draw of the front Xigmatek XLF exhaust, moves the hot air safely over the top of the (sole) bottom fan cage (which thanks to slight convection/shear gets cool air from the bottom of the case running up through it. keeping the HDDs within a safe temperature range). Meanwhile the Noctua NH-D14's three fans and the Prolimatech rear exhaust plus the top Xigmatek XLF exhaust work together to keep the warmer air (already moved toward the front exhaust) out the top before it can be taken into the CPU cooler's push fan. Unconventional setup, but it works really well. If I had blower GPUs I'd change the front to an intake for reasons that are probably clear. All of this works primarily based on the GPU both physically and with regard to convection splitting the case airflow into three sections - the first being from the GPU to the front, the second being from the GPU to the top, the third being from the side intake and ample side panel holes to the CPU cooler. Minimal turbulence thanks to the specific choices, probably significantly less now that the side fan is pushing more air and splitting into the three areas it needs to be routed to more easily and as intended. The XLF didn't have the oomph when it was still working (for all of a day) to maximize the benefit of the idea; the Spectre Pro is just in a different performance class altogether. Diggin' it. Now to finish optimizing the NH-D14 with the more modern offerings from Noctua and I'll be ready to shoot for 48x, and if that works, 5GHz via BCLK. 
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Jul 3, 2013 00:11
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Thanks for the reassurances all. I've been running low loads on stock voltage so it's all good. Now to see what I can do with my 4570.
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Jul 3, 2013 02:04
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Factory Factory posted:It looks like the Intel Performance Tuning Protection Plan is still kicking, with entries for the 4770K and 4670K. I cant find anything that states that the protection plan only covers running the processor out of electrical specifications. You should be able to run the processor out of mechanical specifications too. $20 for risk free direct die cooling on my 3570k? vvv Have you read their terms and conditions for the PTPP? http://click.intel.com/tuningplan/terms-and-conditions They are very open ended. I also just sent an email to their support. Got an email back: Intel posted:Thank you for contacting Intel Customer Support. SanitysEdge fucked around with this message at 00:08 on Jul 9, 2013 |
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Jul 3, 2013 02:14
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Guess what I would not risk: that Joe Blow's weasel-words interpretation of a contract will beat out Intel's idea of what it covers.Stew Man Chew posted:Thanks for the reassurances all. I've been running low loads on stock voltage so it's all good. 4570? Er... Nothing. Hopefully you mean 4670K. Factory Factory fucked around with this message at 02:38 on Jul 3, 2013 |
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Jul 3, 2013 02:29
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Factory Factory posted:Guess what I would not risk: that Joe Blow's weasel-words interpretation of a contract will beat out Intel's idea of what it covers. Yeah thats what I meant. It's been four years I'm out of my element, Donny.
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Jul 3, 2013 03:15
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Well I was running a CPU intensive app (think folding but not quite) on my OC'd 4770K and now one of the cores gets way hotter under load than the rest. This only started happening after 48 hours of load, not right away and didn't pop up either when I was stress testing the OC. As I've posted before, I'm running direct die with an H110. 4.5@1.35. ~78C average under load with my app. Nothing has changed and all cores still exhibit the same temp ranges except core 3 which now goes over 100C. I've tried loosening the mount and tightening but to no effect. Core 3 idles ~3C hotter than the other cores as well. I can't remount now since I don't have TIM handy (I took the machine to work, TIM at home). Just curious if this is an expected side effect of pushing the CPU too hard?
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Jul 3, 2013 18:02
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Well, project supaclocka  is on hold as it looks like I will be upgrading to a Haswell system after all in the near future. Just swapping out the motherboard and getting a new CPU, I will be buying the OC protection and safely delidding to fix the distance issue and make sure TIM is applied properly internally. So it's back burnered, I'm getting the motherboard from an SA-mart sale soon, will be a bit longer for the processor but it's the exact motherboard I would have purchased anyway.Really looking forward to the architectural improvements, power savings, more SATA, AVX2 (etc.), and PCI-e 3.0 lanes. Shaocaholica posted:Well I was running a CPU intensive app (think folding but not quite) on my OC'd 4770K and now one of the cores gets way hotter under load than the rest. Oh, dear. No. That's very very bad. Is it possible at all that the temperature sensing utility you're using is misreporting? Otherwise, it sounds like you might have done the chip in on accident. That's not normal under any circumstances at all, even extreme ones. The only other thing would be if despite all efforts to the contrary it's somehow not making contact with the heat transfer block, and it's mainly showing up only on that core. Agreed fucked around with this message at 18:17 on Jul 3, 2013 |
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Jul 3, 2013 18:12
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Err by 'Just curious if this is an expected side effect of pushing the CPU too hard?" I meant if its a common sign that its permanently 'broke'? I'm fine with getting a new CPU, just part of the game I suppose. I'm going to run home soon to get TIM among other things. See what happens. I'll check the flatness of the H110 block. Maybe it warped under heat stress  but I just lapped it flat 2 weeks ago.e: I'm really hoping a magic bubble formed in the TIM and its not the CPU. Shaocaholica fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Jul 3, 2013 |
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Jul 3, 2013 18:22
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Yay it was a magic bubble. Re-applied TIM (NT-H1) and temps are back to normal across all cores. Phew.
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Jul 3, 2013 22:36
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I'm trying to get some info before overclocking my 4670k /z87e (/nh-d14). So, here I am looking at the A-tuner software that comes with the Asrock mb. So, item one. I should read more and do the actual tweaking in the BIOS thingy right? (last time I "OCed" I just went into the BIOS and jacked up the multiplier and reduced the volt and got some stable compromise) On the A-tuner there is some "FAN-tastic" software: I can't keep my nh-d14 to run at anything but max settings without any overclocking at all. How do I get more control over the cpu fan? I've installed the two wires from the cpu fan to a merger 2-1 cable I jammed into the cpu fan pin on the mb. Do I need to add one of the converter cables that came with the mb to get the software more responsive? Basically, I want the bloody cpu fan to ease up when I'm not stressing the PC before I start with some OC. What are the mistakes that scrubs (myself) make. I don't know if I hosed up putting all the computer parts together or if it's something else? Bloody record in words/question marks ratio itp. e: I think strapping one of these will fix the max rpm things  Still need to figure out how to make the fan ease up when I'm just browsing forums. Daktari fucked around with this message at 00:01 on Jul 5, 2013 |
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Jul 4, 2013 23:45
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I think we need to back up a bit. The NH-D14's fans are PWM controlled, and if you plugged them into the motherboard at one fan per 4-pin fan header, they'd already be controlled based on temperature. What adapter are you using? Link if possible. You need a specific PWM splitter to split PWM fans correctly, like this. That takes power from Molex, feeds the PWM from the motherboard to up to three fans, and monitors the RPM of the first fan (preferably one of the CPU fans).
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Jul 5, 2013 00:17
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They are the (stock) fans that came with the cooler. I put the wire from each fan into a Y-splitter, and put the Y-splitter into the cpu fan pin on the mb. You're saying I need something like this (came with one of the boxes) to make it PWM controlled?  Does the wide connector go to the PSU or mb? Forgive me going off the track OC wise
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Jul 5, 2013 00:58
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That adapter has no fan control at all. It just pumps unregulated full power to the fan directly from the PSU. Is it a three-pin Y splitter or a four pin splitter? E: I just looked, I am wrong, they are not PWM controlled, and it's a three-pin splitter. This means that if they're not being speed-controlled, it's something about the motherboard's BIOS settings or maybe some software overriding them. The other problem is that at full bore, the NH-D14's fans are only 20 dB(A) each. That's nothing. They're certainly not screamingly loud. What other fans do you have installed? Factory Factory fucked around with this message at 01:27 on Jul 5, 2013 |
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Jul 5, 2013 01:17
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You can get a proper pwm y splitter for like $6 that plugs into CPU_FAN (I'm using one on my archon to power 2 TY-150s). I didn't even know about these molex connector types, but I guess that's be for a 3 fan d14 or silver arrow or something?
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Jul 5, 2013 04:47
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Or just syncing case fans to your CPUs PWM signal. It's especially useful for mini-ITX boards, where most of them get only one or two fan headers.
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Jul 5, 2013 05:03
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If my Haswell CPU is dead, the machine should still power on and display a 'no cpu found' or similar message right?
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Jul 16, 2013 01:31
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Shaocaholica posted:If my Haswell CPU is dead, the machine should still power on and display a 'no cpu found' or similar message right? It will be able to power on but it will never make it past POST if it is truly dead. The same would happen if you simply had no CPU in the computer.
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Jul 16, 2013 01:49
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An Unoriginal Name posted:It will be able to power on but it will never make it past POST if it is truly dead. The same would happen if you simply had no CPU in the computer. Ok. I'm just trying to diagnose a non post issue. Its either the PSU, motherboard or perhaps CPU. Problem is, I don't have any spare PSUs, motherboards or CPUs to test with. Machine won't turn on. A few fans (not all) will spin maybe twice and then nothing. No leds, no GPU output, nothing. PSU self test LED turns green when pressed only when nothing is plugged into it. I'm going to pick up a new PSU from Frys tomorrow and see where that gets me.
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Jul 16, 2013 07:36
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Shaocaholica posted:Ok. I'm just trying to diagnose a non post issue. Its either the PSU, motherboard or perhaps CPU. Problem is, I don't have any spare PSUs, motherboards or CPUs to test with. Does the PSU smell odd? Failed PSUs tend to have a very distinctive smell to them, especially the first few minutes after they break. They usually pop capacitors which causes the smell. Do you have a discreet GPU? What happens if you take that out and try to boot?
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Jul 16, 2013 09:23
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